Report: Calif. Sheriff Deputized 86 Friends


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rick_reno
May 26, 2005, 10:44 AM
Department issued guns? They couldn't afford to buy a gun?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,157727,00.html

Report: Calif. Sheriff Deputized 86 Friends
Thursday, May 26, 2005

LOS ANGELES A sheriff and one of his top aides deputized 86 of their friends, relatives and political contributors without checking their backgrounds, handing them limited arrest powers and guns in some cases, according to a newspaper investigation.

Orange County Sheriff Michael S. Carona (search) and former Assistant Sheriff Donald Haidl (search) named the volunteers in 1999, the year after Carona was elected, despite concerns raised by a county attorney and the state Commission on Peace Officers Standards and Training, the Los Angeles Times reported Thursday.

The background checks were completed only last year, sheriff's officials said.

Carona defended the appointments in an e-mail response to questions from the newspaper.

"Like any organization, the first group of individuals we reach out to for support and assistance is friends and family of the members of the organization," Carona wrote.

Of the 86 appointees, 29 contributed to Carona's campaigns in 1998 and 2002. Others hosted fund-raisers for Carona or his philanthropy, the Mike Carona Foundation (search).

Carona denied that the appointments were political favors.


Some had ties to Haidl, including a brother, sister, nephew and two other relatives, along with private pilots, a personal secretary and other employees of Haidl's auction company, the Times said

The commission removed the names of all the deputies from its database, meaning it no longer recognizes them as peace officers, after finding most had not completed training required by state law.

A Sheriff's Department audit determined that six were performing police duties and they were ordered to stop. Four who received department-issued guns returned them.

Fourteen, however, still have concealed weapons permits and 56 retain their badges and identification cards, the newspaper said.

Carona told the Times that the deputies who retain their badges pose no public risk.

The newspaper studied documents obtained through public records requests and provided by other sources and conducted interviews with appointees and sheriff's officials, some of whom spoke only on the condition of anonymity.

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Sir Aardvark
May 26, 2005, 11:35 AM
This is how the system works.
It's who you know, and who you give money to.
Look at L.A. - no normal joe can get a CCW, but all the Movie Stars have access to them.

beerslurpy
May 26, 2005, 11:44 AM
I want to be deputized too. I wonder how much money you have to give.

That actually sounds like the most reliable way yet to carry a concealed weapon in socal without getting in trouble.

"Against the law? I am da law!"

dustind
May 26, 2005, 12:45 PM
I wish Jim March was here to comment. I thought the guy in Orange County was on our side.

Vernal45
May 26, 2005, 12:49 PM
:scrutiny:

Typhoon
May 26, 2005, 12:59 PM
Yeah, too bad. Carona actually seemed to be relatively...well...non-openly hostile to the idea of CCW for the ordinary citizen. Unlike Baca (Los Angeles County Sheriff). Hope this doesn't screw things up for the people in Orange County.

Here is the link to the Los Angeles Times story. http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-carona26may26,0,2293710.story?coll=la-home-headlines

BenW
May 26, 2005, 01:06 PM
Carona has been very liberal (by Calif standards) in handing out CCW to "ordinary" citizens in Orange County. I wouldn't condemn him just yet. I'd like to wait for more evidence to come in.

DRZinn
May 26, 2005, 01:09 PM
Look at L.A. - no normal joe can get a CCW, but all the Movie Stars have access to them.What they need in LA is one extraordinarily rich individual to go to the sheriff and say something along the lines of "OK, how much mordida would it take for you to suddenly change your point of view on CCW not only for me, but for the whole county?

Now that's philanthropism.

El Rojo
May 26, 2005, 02:52 PM
Corona has been very nice about issuing CCWs from my understanding. This is similiar to the idea some THR members were floating a while back about getting a sheriff or chief to start deputizing people in order for them to get a CCW or to be able to carry. Looks like Corona was doing that to a certain extent. No this is not LA County Lee Baca who only issues to his buddies and hacks, this is Mike Corona who does issue to many OC residents and is generally on our side. Don't confuse the two.

Make no mistake about it, the LA Times is working against us on this one. They want to try and bring him down because he is pro-gun and CCW friendly. Otherwise, they would be after Lee Baca because he only issues to his buddies and the elite. Corona issues to all sorts of people.

TheFederalistWeasel
May 26, 2005, 03:25 PM
JFC!!!! :what:

Ironworker
May 26, 2005, 04:19 PM
"Carona told the Times that the deputies who retain their badges pose no public risk."


Wait...what the heck did he just say?!

After these people spend a few months running around playing cops with an unsuspecting public, how... who... what...gss566%$$RRRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr






Dammit, my brain just blew another logic circut and all I'm getting is the EBSD.

Standing Wolf
May 26, 2005, 04:25 PM
Whether the sheriff of Orange county issues concealed firearms permits to commoners is irrelevant. What's relevant here is that he's handing out special favors to friends, relatives, and financial supporters.

That's the way things are done in aristocracies and tyrannies, not America.

Psssniper
May 26, 2005, 04:25 PM
Ditto on El Rojos take, Carona is a good guy, he's on our side. The LA Times on the other hand is not on our side. If you were elected Sheriff would you do what Carona did? I know I probably would. Have any of these Deputies done anything wrong? Have any of them abused their position? Have there been any complaints against them? Until there is hard evidence otherwise I'll take Caronas side. Not that it matters but I met Carona when my buddy graduated from the OC academy. It was the first class to graduate under Carona. Seemed like a really good guy and I am glad he is our Sheriff.

Guns_and_Labs
May 26, 2005, 04:44 PM
This is similiar to the idea some THR members were floating a while back about getting a sheriff or chief to start deputizing people in order for them to get a CCW or to be able to carry. Looks like Corona was doing that to a certain extent.

I guess Carona read the thread, and started to implement it. Pity he missed the POST requirement, but it IS the quickest way to a CCW...

Why's everyone complaining? The recipients sure don't sound like the "rich and famous". Some pilots, a secretary, some family members, a few that threw tupperware parties for him... where would YOU start if you wanted more law-abiding folks to be carrying?

Telperion
May 26, 2005, 05:48 PM
I'd start by eliminating the discretionary crony-issue system in favor a shall-issue system. Even Corona is not running a shall-issue shop. He still wants to know your "good cause". Sheriffs seem to like the wide discretion the current law allows them. It's time to remove that discretion since it always ends up being abused for political favors.

This is not at all like Jim March's idea, which now seems a bit questionable in light of this event. Jim March proposed that a pro-gun sheriff could deputize law-abiding citizens as low-level reserve deputies that have no powers of arrest, and do not need a POST certification. And it would be done very openly and publicly to highlight the abuses of the current discretionary system. In contrast, Corona's actions seem to have been conducted very much under-the-table. Those 86 badges were obviously political favors, and not part of some effort to reform carry laws. I don't see a difference whether those people were movie stars or bricklayers.

If this is all true, I'm very disappointed in Sheriff Corona. This is going to be ammunition for whoever runs against him, which is a shame because as others have noted, he's been a good ally of gun rights.

El Rojo
May 26, 2005, 06:55 PM
In contrast, Corona's actions seem to have been conducted very much under-the-table.If it was under the table, then how did we find out about it? How did people discover it in an audit? If the sheriff can deputize people by law, then let him. It doesn't matter to me. If I were concerned about it, I would try and remove the law.

Now the four deputies who were acting in law enforcement functions, that is interesting, but we don't know all of the background there so I am not going to speculate.

kbarrett
May 26, 2005, 06:57 PM
Hmmmm.

I could run for sheriff elsewhere ... deputize any good local, and give him permission to buy an NFA firearm on a Form 10.

Machineguns at real world prices ... just join the county militia/posse.

Shooting competitions and barbeque on the third sunday of each month....

Psssniper
May 26, 2005, 08:58 PM
I don't think there was anything under the table, I knew about this issue when it was happening originally. Some friends were trainers at the academy and talked about training these guys. No big deal and common knowledge at the time. LA Times is sensationalizing this whole thing. So my question is this Can the Sheriff deputize at will? anybody, anytime, anywhere? If that person fills a need in the department, which may not neccesarily be on the street, is that legit? We don't know what function these people served for the Sheriffs dept so how can we judge. I seriously doubt that they were all running around the streets with guns and badges fighting bad guys, but so what if a couple of them did? Going back to my other post have there been any problems, complaints etc?? United we stand divided we fall, Carona is a good guy. Don't let the LA Slimes mislead you.

Telperion
May 26, 2005, 11:05 PM
I'll concede that "under the table" was too strong; I checked, and Corona's deputies been known for some time. In fact, Jim March mentioned it in his original post with his idea.

The sheriff should be free to deputize anyone, within the law. If Corona's deputies are in fact level 3 reservists, then the LA Times is printing blatant misinformation, since training is not required.

GRB
May 26, 2005, 11:11 PM
Nepotism is frowned up in police departments around the USA. Appointing relatives as in this case may possibly be nepotism at its finest. Appointing friends and contributors would possibly constitute a conflict of interest, as would nepotism. Appointing any of these people without background checks is, in my opinion, negligent to say the least. Maybe they are sensationalizing it now but that does not make it any righter back then.

Ironworker
May 26, 2005, 11:59 PM
Don't get me wrong. I have little problem with concealed carry (it's the idiots who shouldn't have sharp knives in their posession and yet have a carry gun that I do have concern about), but I *do* have issue with the guy playing nepotistic games and handing out badges (steenking or otherwise) to his drinking buddies.

Archie
May 27, 2005, 02:07 AM
Since Sheriff Corona has a record of being conservative and pro 'law and order' (whatever that means this week), the LA Times is going to put it to him. Folks, this story has all the markings of a first rate half-truth smear campaign.

What damage has the citizenry or the state suffered resulting from the Sheriff's actions of deputizing 86 'friends'? What is the harm?

(No changing the subject to 'not issuing permits'; if you want to criticize for not issuing, Sheriff Lee Baca of LA county has precedence.)

Is what Sheriff Corona did illegal?

Is what he did immoral?

Who gains by this news report?

What good will the public reap by un-deputizing these people?

Let's give Sheriff Corona a fair trial before we hang him, metaphorically speaking.

Kharn
May 27, 2005, 08:16 AM
Jim March's profile states the last activity on his account was December 11th, 2004 02:35 PM. A post on the subject by a friend of his says he's spending 24x7 prepping for a lawsuit against Diebold.

Kharn

thorn726
May 27, 2005, 03:39 PM
yeah people are ingnoring the bigger issue in favor of a small issue we approve of-
Whether the sheriff of Orange county issues concealed firearms permits to commoners is irrelevant. What's relevant here is that he's handing out special favors to friends, relatives, and financial supporters.

this doenst help any of us in the long run

jnojr
May 27, 2005, 05:36 PM
Days ago, Jim said he would be updating his CCW pages in days... :)

Hopefully he'll be back soon.

Jim Diver
May 27, 2005, 08:34 PM
I ran into Jim last night. Expect to hear from him soon....

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