Federal Tactical, 00, 000 buck in mossberg 500a with 20" cylinder bore.


PDA






shotgunner
May 26, 2005, 11:00 AM
Has anybody tried either 00, or 000 federal tactical buck in a Mossberg 500a with a 20" cylinder bore?

I have the Mossberg Persuader with a 20" cylinder bore.

#1. Which of the two ammunitions group better for you guys with the same gun specs?

#2. I want to get 000 buck, for obvious reasons. Looks like 000 would really really hurt ALOT more than 00.

Thanks for the help!

If you enjoyed reading about "Federal Tactical, 00, 000 buck in mossberg 500a with 20" cylinder bore." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
A Cleaner
May 26, 2005, 11:22 AM
To each gun, her own pattern. Each one can be different, even two with consecutive serial numbers in the same make & model. Pattern some buck and she'll tell you what she likes. Measure the greatest distance you would have to shoot across for home defense and practice within that range. 7 yards is usually a good average.

Stick with 00 buck. Remington Managed Recoil 00 works great for my Rem 870. You just have to feed your Mossy what she likes. Check out resident guru Dave McCracken's tutorial in "Patterning 101" thread. Good luck and take care.

revolvergeek
May 26, 2005, 11:40 AM
Ditto what he said. Most of the cylinder bore Mossbergs and Remingtons that I have tried patterned the 00 better than the 000, but you need to pattern your gun with the different loads to see what patterns best in it. I have an Ithica 37 riot gun (21 inch full choke barrel) that loves either Fed LR 00 buck (about 12 inches @ 20 yards ) or Remington Hi-Brass 000 buck (about 7 inches at 20 yards), but patterns dramatically bigger with anything else.

I have been wanting to try the Fed LR 000, but haven't had any luck finding any around here. Do you know of a source online?

foghornl
May 26, 2005, 11:49 AM
My Maverick 88 is essentially worthless other than as a noise-maker with anything larger than #1 Buck...has patterns you could run a 767 through without too much danger of a hit.

Now #4 Buck is a different story...tighter than a hatband.

As was stated earlier, each shotgun/barrel/ammo combination is a rule unto itself. Buy a 5 or 10 pack of as many different loads as your can find, and try them out.

nitesite
May 26, 2005, 11:53 AM
The guys who typed faster than me have posted good information, and I think they're corrrect when they say to find what works best in your firearm at the ranges you expect. And reading Dave Mc's carefull thought out works is time very well spent.

Personally, I like #1 Buck because I prefer giving up .03" to get seven more (16 vs. 9) pellets in a standard 2-" loading. In my HD 590 there are voids in the 00 spread at 25-yards that would completely miss the vital areas of a man or coyote.

What are you trying to "hurt worse" with 000 (which by the way is .350" instead of .330")? Why hurt anything?

Elmer
May 26, 2005, 12:51 PM
As far as the Federal Tactical Buckshot, make sure you try some from very recent manufacture. Federal made an improvement in it, and the patterns are simply amazing. Not that it wasn't good before.

shotgunner
May 26, 2005, 12:55 PM
Thanks for the help!

I'm trying to hurt anybody or anything that tries to hurt me, family, or friends!

Thanks again!

nitesite
May 26, 2005, 01:21 PM
Hello, Shotgunner~~

I was merely implying that self defense with a shotgun oftentimes goes way beyond simply hurting something or someone. I guess I was just too focused on that singular word. Read the Four Rules of Gun Safety; you won't see the word "hurt" in them, but will find the word "destroy".

Ahem... off my soapbox now. Please excuse me.


So, Hey! You sure picked a great forum to ask questions regarding your shotgun, loads and (in your other thread) accessories/customizing. Be prepared in your other thread to hear a few fellas say BA/UU/R a lot :) .

Dave McCracken
May 26, 2005, 01:38 PM
00 is hardly ever ineffective, and often patterns tightly. Don't chase the "Hurt Worse" concept, defensive shooting is to stop, not injure and cause pain.

All buck is effective when used within its range and mission limits. As already stated, buy lots of 5 packs, test until a clear winner emerges.

A Cleaner
May 26, 2005, 01:45 PM
Excellent point on the #1 buck, nitesite. The size of the shot packed into a cylinder of fixed length and diameter is directly proportional to the amount of "wasted space" between each pellet.

Zeke Menuar
May 26, 2005, 01:51 PM
My Western Field (Mossberg 500 ) with a 18.5" tube shoots very small tight groups with Federal 00 buck. Best I've tried from this gun.

ZM

Nnobby45
May 26, 2005, 09:56 PM
00 buck vs. 000 is an interesting anomaly. Standard load is 9- 00 (or 8 pellet) buck vs 8- 000. Very little difference in numbers and the heavier and larger 000 would seem to be advantagious. Go to 3" mag and the 000 buck goes from 8 to 10 (not much), while the 00 jumps to 15, and has a definite advantage. Be advised that 000 does have more penetration which may not always be desirable.

From my Scattergun Tech/Wilson Combat 870, 18" cyl bore bbl., a typical pattern with low recoil LE ammo would be about 5" at 10 yds, 9" at 15, and 11" at 20 yds. 25 yds is stretching it. This applies to Federal Tactical and Win. Ranger LE ammo. Standard vel. buckshot spreads much more. The difference in barrels can be significant, especially with re: to uniformity. The difference between two Mossberg barrels like yours could be as much as the difference between your Mossberg and my Scattergun Tech.

Be advised that, last year, Federal incorporated their FliteControl wad into their tactical line. Elmer mentioned it in his post. My tests with this new stuff were incredible. Under 2" at 10 yds, 5" at 15, 7" at 20 and about 9" at 25yds. Effective patterns at close to 40yds. The wad controls the pattern. The choke does not. The shot doesn't start to spread until the wad opens up and slips off the shot down range. My tests showed no difference between cyl bore, mod., or full choke barrels. You've now got, for practicl purposes, a slug out to better than 10 yds, and buckshot thereafter.

My tests were with the LE 132-00 9 pellet loads, but it's available in 133-00 8 pellet. I suspect it'll be used in the 132 000 load also. You may not want tight patterns like that for home defense--Federal made the change to give all those Police cyl bore shotguns more range. They succeeded. Hornady has followed up with their TAP load which also produces super tight patterns, but I doubt as tight as the Federal. In short, the Federal and Remington, Winchester LE loads tightened patterns over standard buckshot. Now the new loads tighten patterns even more (lot's more). All of the LE ammo is pleasant to shoot in slugs or buckshot.

I bought mine at a gunshow. The new FliteControl should be showing up on line at places like Ammoman after they get rid of the current stocks, which might actually be better for HD--at least they spread a little. :D :)

crucible
May 27, 2005, 07:17 AM
Excellent post knobby!

357wheelgunner
May 27, 2005, 11:29 AM
I SERIOUSLY doubt that OOO will "hurt" any worse than OO buck at HD distances fired from a riot gun barrel. I'd bet that OO will make a badguy just as dead as OOO, and if a blast of OO or OOO buckshot to COM won't do the trick, there is no reason that the other would do any better.

I use Remington LE Reduced Recoil OO buckshot because my Remington 870 Police patterns well with it. Good luck!

Gunsnrovers
May 27, 2005, 12:07 PM
Which gets back to the common repeated phrase from this forum when the question "What is the best XXX".

The chorus replies, "What ever your shotgun patterns best with."

There are enough choices out there, that you can grab a sample platter, hit the range, and test for your own "best" results.

Myself, I have gotten the best patterns with Speer and Hornady LEO loads.

Elmer
May 27, 2005, 12:45 PM
The Speer load is made in the Federal factory, it's just remarked. I'm not sure if they're still doing it.

After shooting the new Federal, I'll go on record as saying you won't find anything that patterns better, regardless of gun. I got even better results than Nnobby45. I won't post them, you'd think I was fibbing.... :)

A Cleaner
May 27, 2005, 01:58 PM
Gunsnrovers et al,

This is probably not original but here goes...

Maybe we could put up a post and sticky it that would go over some of the basics...like Dave McC did with Patterning 101. We could name it something like: "Before you ask, read these FAQ's" or "New Members: Click Here For Basic Info". Listed there would be things like the core truth that what shells pattern/perform best for a given configuration can only be determined by shooting different ones in that config. etc.

I know that would've helped me out quite a bit when I first started actually posting. I would have saved some face by not asking obvious questions and the resident wisemen wouldn't have been bothered again with such unoriginal questions. Not that they seem to mind...everyone here has been very nice and willing to help thus far. But ya' know...just in case. Your thoughts, Gunsnrovers, Dave, Steve, et al.

Elmer
May 27, 2005, 02:26 PM
Well, that supposes that no new product has come out that would make that advice no longer valid.

Sometimes there are new answers to old questions........

Gunsnrovers
May 27, 2005, 04:00 PM
While I have not tried the new Federal load, I do know that in my 870, my 37, and my '97, the Hornday 8 pellet TAP and Speer 8 pellet LEO load both out performed the Federal 133 loads.

Sorry, but I don't buy your absolute. Folks can swear up and down what works for them, but that doesn't mean it will work for the other guy equally.

Nnobby45
May 27, 2005, 06:46 PM
While I have not tried the new Federal load, I do know that in my 870, my 37, and my '97, the Hornday 8 pellet TAP and Speer 8 pellet LEO load both out performed the Federal 133 loads.

What do you mean by outperform? Pattern tightness or uniformity? Indoors at close range all loads are tight, althought it's wise to know exactly what your load will do at various short distances. The Federal LE 133 8 pellet performs similar to the LE 132 9 pellet 00, as does the 132 000, in my gun where pattern tightness is concerned. The new LE 132 (FliteControl) is tighter than both with acceptable pattern uniformity. For some reason, the Winchester Ranger LE with lead shot gives better uniformity, but more open than the original Fed. Tac. Perhaps a better in-door load.

Incidentally, the FliteControl wad is nothing more than the same wad Federal has been using in their super tight Turkey loads for a while, now.

Where the new Supertight loads are concerned, pattern uniformity may be the best factor for determining which load is best for our barrel and gun. I'm looking forward to trying them all--haven't gotten a hold of the TAP yet.

Elmer
May 27, 2005, 07:19 PM
Speer 8 pellet LEO load both out performed the Federal 133 loads.

Gunsnrovers, the Speer LEO 8 pellet load is the Federal LE 133. It's just rebadged Federal. Speer doesn't make any of their own shotgun ammo.

marklbucla
May 27, 2005, 07:42 PM
If you're talking about the Big 5 special Mossberg...the internals are unmodified, but it has a Hogue Youth stock on it.

I used to use Remington Reduced Recoil OO, but it patterned horribly and was very, very dirty. It shot out a lot of junk with the buck with it. I got about a basketball sized pattern at 7 yards with it. It kicks a lot less than the full recoil buck.

I tried one or two rounds of the federal tactical buck and it patterned like a decently grouped pistol target. If I recall correctly, this is the one that didn't even look like a shotgun pattern at all. It made just one ragged hole. Actually, come to think of it, it may have been like that with someone else's gun. I think someone in my class had a Vang Comp'd 870...

Anyway, the one I use now is the Federal Vital Shok OO. It seemed to produce about a baseball sized pattern at 7-8 yards.

Again, try it with your own gun but you can always take the advice from others for a good starting point.

Gunsnrovers
May 27, 2005, 11:57 PM
Performance being graded by consistently tighter patterns.

In my experience, I have gotten the best results from the Hornady TAP.

I'm taking issue with the platitude "best". Best is relative and results may vary. I'm not going to tell someone ammo X will give them the best results.

gringolet
May 30, 2005, 09:25 AM
if you can find it, try no 1 buck. are some studies recommending this as top defense load for close use.

Nnobby45
May 30, 2005, 07:12 PM
if you can find it, try no 1 buck. are some studies recommending this as top defense load for close use.

I wish it came in low recoil Tactical. The stuff appears to have excellent target saturation along with adequate (but not too much) penetration. The standard velocity stuff produces patterns much larger than Tactical 00 buck by Federal, or Winchester Ranger LE. Good for indoors (not outdoors), but with much more recoil--right where you might need some quick followup shots against multiple violent sociopaths who like to invade people's homes. The good news is that low recoil 00 buck works well. :)

Opinions that praise # 1 buck may be justified, but there seems to be little in the way of street data--probably because LE has been happy with the results from 00 buck, and hasn't pursued it.

226
May 30, 2005, 10:55 PM
The new FliteControl should be showing up on line at places like Ammoman after they get rid of the current stocks, which might actually be better for HD--at least they spread a little.

Asked Eric at ammoman and he said the LE 132 00 he sells (Fed tac lr 00 9 pellet) comes with FliteControl.

Nnobby45
May 31, 2005, 12:03 AM
Thanks 226, that's good to know. The LE 132-00, 132-000 and 133-00 8 pellet I ordered from Ammoman a month and a half ago was the regular stuff--plated shot, but no FliteControl. Not a bad Idea to have both. A shooter on another forum got a hold of the 133 8 pellet load with FliteControl and his results were like my 132 9 pellet FliteControl loads. Tight!

I frankly don't know why they have an 8 and a 9 pellet load with FliteControl, since there wouldn't appear to be much difference in performance. For tight patterns at 30 yds and beyond, the LE 132 000 buck with 8 pellets makes sense to me for a little better penetration, so I hope the FC wad is available in that, too. :cool:

226
May 31, 2005, 01:22 AM
You know I had to google it... More FliteControl info (http://glarp.atk.com/2005Catalogs/pdfs/federalLE_2005_catalog.pdf).

Elmer
May 31, 2005, 06:39 AM
I frankly don't know why they have an 8 and a 9 pellet load with FliteControl, since there wouldn't appear to be much difference in performance.

Just to be able to meet specs on police contracts.

226
June 1, 2005, 07:36 PM
The LE 132-00, 132-000 and 133-00 8 pellet I ordered from Ammoman a month and a half ago was the regular stuff--plated shot, but no FliteControl.Nnobby45, Can you tell from the box or marking on the shell whether it's FC?

Nnobby45
June 2, 2005, 11:56 PM
Yes you can, at least for now or until it's all standardized to FliteControl. Says "Features New FliteControl Wad" on front of box.

Check out the picture in my post on Page 1 of this thread. The FC load on the right is smoother and has lower brass. The wad has petals in the middle of the case that open up and fold all the way back while the front of the wad remains solid. :)

If you enjoyed reading about "Federal Tactical, 00, 000 buck in mossberg 500a with 20" cylinder bore." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!