Which non-AR .223 Semi-Auto


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rbernie
May 26, 2005, 05:23 PM
If I were in the market for a non-AR .223 semiautomatic rifle, tell me what you'd get and why....

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Mulliga
May 26, 2005, 05:40 PM
That's like asking, "which non-Garand .30-06 semi-auto?" :evil:

This has been discussed many times before. I'd go with either the VEPR or the SU-16.

yesterdaysyouth
May 26, 2005, 06:12 PM
converted saiga for me...

dghboy315
May 26, 2005, 06:37 PM
it depends on what you would like to do with it...

give us some details.

Justin
May 26, 2005, 06:41 PM
No love for the AR180?

cidirkona
May 26, 2005, 07:10 PM
All tied up at 5,5,5!

What about the XCR? (http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=32474730)

-Colin

rbernie
May 26, 2005, 09:16 PM
This has been discussed many times before. Not in context - it's always the 'love/hate the Mini' or 'Love my CA-legal SU16' or something like that. I'm looking for head-to-head comparo type feedback from folks who can own any of 'em but would choose one over the others.

I'd go with either the VEPR or the SU-16. OK - why? What do either of them do better than the Mini, or each other?

No love for the AR180?Sure - it's OK albeit a bit mo' moola. But tell me why it's better than the Mini's or the rest of 'em.

it depends on what you would like to do with it... give us some details.That's fair.

I want something that I can take to the range to play or use to hunt small/medium game, mostly inside of 200 yards. I really would prefer a traditionally-stocked non-bayonet-lugged good ol' fashioned rifle. I don't need light rails or 30 round mags or any of that stuff. Truth be known, if I could get a SKS in 223 with a decent scope mounting system, that'd be just about perfect for me.

Before everyone starts to accuse me of AR-hate, lemme state for the record that I like the AR. Heck, my rich uncle gave me a M16A1 to carry around for six years and in all that time it pretty much did whatever I asked of it. But I want something that's less expensive (for a given quality level) than an AR and like I said before - I want something that's a bit more traditional.

The Mini and the SU are conventional-stocked 223 semi's - their inclusion in this poll is a no-brainer. The Vepr is the odd man out in this comparo because it's got that pistol grip thingee. But I'd be willing to deal with that if there was some compelling reason to skip the other choices and jump in on Correia's group Vepr buy... :evil:

Zak Smith
May 26, 2005, 09:31 PM
A 223 AK, like the one from RobArm ?

HK SL6 ?

Leitner-Wise gas piston "AR" ?

boofus
May 26, 2005, 09:31 PM
wait a few months and get the FN FS2000 :D

Fatelvis
May 26, 2005, 09:34 PM
Ar180

Harry Tuttle
May 26, 2005, 09:35 PM
http://premium1.uploadit.org/docZox///mystery.jpg

Pointman
May 26, 2005, 09:47 PM
AR180 or M96

rbernie
May 26, 2005, 10:05 PM
Thanks, Zak - I'd never seen/heard of the SL6, but it sure looks like an interesting alternative. At least it passes the 'NO PISTOL GRIP' test... :D

Out of curiosity - is it possible to get AR furniture that dispenses with the pistol grip? EDIT - Nevermind. In eyeballing the relationship between the recoil tube and the triggerguard, it would seem obvious that there's just no way to make that work.

Mulliga
May 26, 2005, 10:45 PM
OK - why? What do either of them do better than the Mini, or each other?

The VEPR is arguably more reliable, and certainly tougher. The SU-16 can use standard AR mags. Both are probably about as accurate (and sometimes, a lot more accurate ;) ) and roughly in the same ballpark as far as cost is concerned (with the VEPR maybe being more expensive, and the Kel-Tec being a bit cheaper). I just don't like the Mini-14 and have seen enough reliability/QC problems with Ruger rifles (especially 10/22s) that I'm soured to them. YMMV.

Sure - it's OK albeit a bit mo' moola. But tell me why it's better than the Mini's or the rest of 'em.

AR180Bs are as accurate as a regular (non-competition) AR, reliable, and they use AR mags. Lots of positive reviews here on THR:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=86675&highlight=AR-180b
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=70201&highlight=AR-180%2A

Farnham
May 26, 2005, 10:47 PM
Even though my Mini-14 is currently at the top of my s**t list, since it is embarassing to shoot after my AR and M1A, I voted for it. It's a durable, reliable, and (reasonably) accurate short range shooter. I wouldn't try to hit an elephant outside of 200 yards, but inside of that, I'm reasonably confident I could hit at least a Buick.

I've never shot the SU-16, but looking at it, I think it's an answer to a question that shouldn't have been asked. I know, that's a horrible way to judge a weapon (just look at the A-10) but man, that thing is FUGLY.

The one VEPR I got to shoot seemed very solid and wasn't any less accurate than my Mini, but it didn't fit me as well, and didn't "handle" (if that makes sense) as well.

Just my opinion, worth what you paid for it.

S/F

Farnham

Domino
May 27, 2005, 01:17 AM
Given your uses, I would say that the SU-16 would be my choice. The Mini-14 would most certainly do the job, especially if you want the conventional wood stock and robust design. Perhaps the Mini-14 is your best bet.

If you didn't mind spending a huge chunk of change on a real tackdriver than I would certainly suggest the Evolution (https://www.volquartsen.com/vc/public/ListItems.do?familyID=10) .

Also, if you could find one the Saiga (http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976446759.htm) may be wortwhile but, it appears that they have more than doubled in price since importation has ceased. It is not a $600 rifle. :eek:

benEzra
May 27, 2005, 10:08 AM
AR-180B would be my first choice. (Actually, a Steyr AUG would be my first choice, but the cost would be, er, rather steep.)

Essex County
May 27, 2005, 12:05 PM
There are none...............Essex

another48hrs
May 27, 2005, 12:35 PM
There is also the Arsenal SAM 5. The reasons I would get it is that it runs on a easier to clean gas piston, its full-auto brother is being used around the world, and it has a 1/7 twist which means I can use heavier bullets.

landon74
May 27, 2005, 01:27 PM
No option for AR-180B, so I voted for SU-16, since it takes M-16 mags.....

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