Illegal Asian immigrants caught in Goliad County


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Desertdog
May 26, 2005, 11:28 PM
All of the people appear to be in their teens and early 20's, the sheriff said
Isn't this the same ages as most of our troops? It makes me wonder just how many Chinese of military age we have hiding in this country. The biggest question is; Are they just poor Chinese looking for a better living, or are they Chinese troops deployed to America.

Illegal Asian immigrants caught in Goliad County
http://victoriaadvocate-proxy.nandomedia.com/local/local/story/2803313p-3246198c.html

ROBIN M. FOSTER
Victoria Advocate

GOLIAD - Goliad County wrote a new chapter Tuesday in its ongoing dealings with human smuggling. Sheriff Robert DeLaGarza said more than a dozen Asians who appear to be illegal immigrants were caught traveling through south Goliad County by a deputy patrolling an area north of Sarco.

DeLaGarza said the suspected illegals had passports from the Republic of China. It appears they are obtaining passports to enter Mexico as tourists, then making their way to the United States border, he said.

A U.S. Border Patrol agent who picked up the immigrants later in the day told DeLaGarza the agency is seeing more and more Chinese coming across the Mexican border.

A spokesman for U.S. Border Patrol confirmed that 13 Chinese illegal immigrants were picked up in Goliad County. Rogelio Cervantes, spokesman for the Rio Grande Sector of U.S. Border Patrol, said they will be held for deportation proceedings from the agency's Corpus Christi station.

DeLaGarza's department, as well as the sheriff's departments in neighboring Refugio and Bee counties, has been working with residents of the Sarco area in south Goliad County to crack down on the flow of illegal immigrants through their community. Residents there are concerned that the human smugglers who are driving the illegals through could also be transporting drugs, weapons or terrorists.

DeLaGarza said Deputy Jim Garner was on patrol when he spotted the vehicle containing the Chinese immigrants headed north on Farm-to-Market Road 2441. As he pursued the pick-up, the driver stopped and fled into the brush, DeLaGarza said. The deputy found about 10 people hiding in the rear of the pick-up under a burlap tarp. Three others, all young women, were riding inside the truck, he said. All of the people appear to be in their teens and early 20's, the sheriff said.


Robin M. Foster is a reporter for the Advocate. Contact her at 361-275-6319 or cueroadv@vicad.com.

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beerslurpy
May 27, 2005, 12:22 AM
I'm telling you, the chinese could land a complete army in Mexico unopposed and march right across the border tomorrow.

Would you put that past the Mexicans to do?

gunsmith
May 27, 2005, 12:30 AM
Shocked I tell you!

When I was working for the city & county of SF it seemed like 90% of the workforce was illegal Chinese aliens,I think it is illegal to even ask CA State and city job applicants if they're here legally-I remember one State employee was deported to the Phillipines a year or so ago-worked for CA allmost 20yrs! :cuss:

I am all for legal immigrants but I think we have got to shut our borders for awhile if they refuse to intergrate with the mainstream they should all go home.

We could never go to those countrys and work and collect benifits :cuss:

Standing Wolf
May 27, 2005, 12:40 AM
I am all for legal immigrants but I think we have got to shut our borders for awhile if they refuse to intergrate with the mainstream they should all go home.

Immigrants have always been one of America's greatest strengths; I'm beginning to wonder, however, whether it might not be wise to take a break from allowing immigrants in. That's not fair to the deserving people who'd give anything to come here and become real Americans, of course, but it's occurred to me we might need to bail out the life boat before we take on any more passengers.

The millions upon millions of illegal aliens that infest our nation like a cancer—some of whom could, indeed, be communist Chinese troops—are a disaster metamorphosing into a catastrophe.

Too bad we don't have a Republican president and congress to take action.

Solo
May 27, 2005, 12:43 AM
Isn't this the same ages as most of our troops? It makes me wonder just how many Chinese of military age we have hiding in this country. The biggest question is; Are they just poor Chinese looking for a better living, or are they Chinese troops deployed to America.

:rolleyes:

Chris Rhines
May 27, 2005, 12:46 AM
Isn't this the same ages as most of our troops? It makes me wonder just how many Chinese of military age we have hiding in this country. The biggest question is; Are they just poor Chinese looking for a better living, or are they Chinese troops deployed to America. You don't think that this might be a tinly little leap of logic, do you? Please.

- Chris

CleverName
May 27, 2005, 01:10 AM
"It makes me wonder just how many Chinese of military age we have hiding in this country. The biggest question is; Are they just poor Chinese looking for a better living, or are they Chinese troops deployed to America.

Quotes like this are seriously damaging to your credibility and the credibility of everyone else who supports the RKBA. It makes you look like a xenophobic racist conspiracy-theorist, simply and bluntly put.

Also, factor in how many of these young men were RAISED here. And how many are legal immigrants. And how many are American-born. Like, say, me (NATIVE BORN, 18-year old male American. Of immigrant, Hong Kong-born, later naturalized parents).

dasmi
May 27, 2005, 01:13 AM
Wait, this can't be true. I thought everyone sneaking across the borders were poor mexicans just looking for work to feed their families. My beloved Government couldn't've lead me astray.

Skunkabilly
May 27, 2005, 01:24 AM
I'm actually a sleeper agent. I'm training to fight you and read what you are carrying in case I run into you....

CleverName
May 27, 2005, 01:25 AM
Also, Gunsmith, what defines "mainstream"? Suburban, affluent culture? Rural culture? West coast? East coast? Midwest? Could it not be even slightly possible that as immigrants of any culture become more "mainstream" the mainstream becomes more like that culture?

Or do you want to reject pierogis, delis, and St. Patrick's Day? After all, Eastern Europeans, Jews, and Irish were demonized in the past. But these are all now acceptable parts of "mainstream" culture.

And how would you go about defining cultural integration? Or when enough time has passed? Who will pay for the voyage home - the Government with taxpayer money? Doesn't this seem like more needless Government interference with our lives?

Just think of me when you hear the Culture Police executing a midnight no-knock on a gunowner's house, because somebody has declared it not "mainstream" to own a gun.

Desertdog
May 27, 2005, 01:31 AM
You don't think that this might be a tinly little leap of logic, do you? Please.
No I don't think it is a leap of logic.
I have been paying attention to the things they have been doing for years. They control both ends of the Panama Canal, They have a large "import" operation at the old George Air Force Base, near Barstow CA.

It was reported a few years after they moved onto the base that the 3rd floor of the building was actually a spy operation capable of intercepting communications for a radius of 200 miles, which includes all So. CA bases, NV bases, and AZ bases of any consequence.

To me it is only logical if they have things like this, they will want troops too. :scrutiny:

If anybody knows differenty, please educate me

CleverName
May 27, 2005, 01:33 AM
Where's the profit to China in a Chinese invasion?

And before anybody accuses me of being a Chinese apologist, I absolutely hate the current regime in China. How religion is being repressed, how prisoners are executed for body parts, and how other gross violations of human rights carry on every day disgusts me.

OK, let me try to make my point clearer. Let's say you're China. You've just infiltrated a million troops into America (which is several times more than Chinese illegal immigrant estimates).

The US outnumbers you 295 to 1.

Not to mention that to feed/care for an army takes a LOT of logistics, China cannot effectively project military force, the fact that armor tends to be noticed, and the likelihood of a organized Chinese infiltrating army goes to nil.

Or let's say they're guerilla units. Well, illegal immigrants don't typically get hired into sensitive positions - CEO background checks, clearence, etc. tends to catch stuff. So the only option is to try to "melt into the hills" and wage asymmetric warfare. Well, guess what, it's unfamiliar territory, and I'd bet there's hostile folks in those hills.

And for what gain? You lose a valuble, nuclear-armed trading partner. You lose one of the top consumers of your products. You gain a chunk of real-estate. Great, what are you going to do, ship a half-billion people there for liebestraum?

longeyes
May 27, 2005, 03:01 AM
Why invade when you can own?

The Chinese already have us by the economic shorthairs.

Amy
May 27, 2005, 03:14 AM
I'm with Gunsmith on this. It has been my candid observation over many years that immigrants, both legal and illegal, come here not to become Americans, but to set up their exclusive enclaves and NOT integrate into our society as Americans. I object to that and I feel we should not allow it. We should do away with this multilingual BS and insist they learn the language of this country, which is ENGLISH!!!

No more should there be multilingual ballots, signs, phone menus, ATM's, etc. This whole multicultural crock of BS is killng our country, and what it seems we are expected to be so "tolerant" of is the destruction of our own unique American culture, our values, and way of life.

This isn't China or Mexico! Just try to go over there with 20 million of your closest friends and pull what they are pulling here!

Amy

dleong
May 27, 2005, 03:16 AM
Where's the profit to China in a Chinese invasion?
Pretty soon, we'll hear the Chinese in this country declare:

"ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!"




(Sorry. Couldn't resist it! :D )


DL

CleverName
May 27, 2005, 03:32 AM
Amy, since pretty much all of us can at one time trace our heritage back to some land other than America, do you then think that we should mimic the oldest culture here?

Let's assume that I move you along with a chunk of your family to Hong Kong in order to stake out a new life. Let's also assume, that if you had your druthers, you would be back in America, but you can't move back. So you say that, deep down in your heart of hearts, you would not in any way, shape, or form seek out restaurants, people, books, etc. that remind you of home? Or that learning a complex language like Cantonese beyond the bare minimum would be hard? And that if you could, you would rather converse in English?

But English is easy, you say? No. English is by all reports one of the hardest languages to learn. The grammar is reletively unstructured and purely positional, there are no genders to clarify adjectival relation, and the mix of linguistic sources for words makes conjugation and declension, as well as the numerous exception to spelling and grammar rules, difficult for an adult learner.

Excuse me if I think that total integration is not only a functional imposibility but not necessarily advantageous, as well as setting dangerous political precident. Why are some gun owners advocating total cultural homogenity enforced through Government power?

Couldn't that be warped to total disarmament through Government power?

In short:

Why are you advocating more Government control of commerce?

Why are you advocating more Government control of language?

Does this not smack of Newspeak, of 1984 to anybody else?

BamBam-31
May 27, 2005, 03:55 AM
This whole multicultural crock of BS is killng our country, and what it seems we are expected to be so "tolerant" of is the destruction of our own unique American culture, our values, and way of life.

:confused:

American culture, values, and way of life is, by definition (see Bill of Rights), not only tolerant of but founded upon what you call a "multicultural crock of BS." Dunno what country you've been living in.... :rolleyes:

gunsmith
May 27, 2005, 05:40 AM
means being able to understand basic street signs and being able to communicate with the person you nearly killed because you took your driving test in Cantonese and you couldn't read the durn "right lane must turn right" sign.
I had a Chinese judge tell me in court that the 2nd Amendment doesn't mean "you have the right to have a gun".
This in no way shape or form means I dislike Chinese people,my Goddaughter is Chinese and her mom (the greatest love of my life) is too.
As far as the Irish,I lived there for two years and I wish they would stop coming over and competing for my jobs as well (most Irish are way liberal when it comes to guns)
Every other country demands respect for it's borders it's language and culture,it's not xenophobia it's survival.
One of my favorite city workers I protected as an armed guard for SF was this nice women from Vietnam she spoke great english,and really tries hard to assimilate to American culture,she voted for Bush because "Those liberals are as bad as the communist I left in Vietnam" but many of her co workers always push for exactly the same kind of politics that ruined their own country.
When the "Europeans, Jews, and Irish" came here they also tried to assimilate,they were also checked for diseases but now it's to "incorrect" to do that and TB is now on the rise!

gunsmith
May 27, 2005, 05:43 AM
http://www.americandaily.com/article/7751

Illegal Immigrants Are Spreading Dangerous Diseases Across This Nation
By Dave Gibson (05/12/05)
It is often said that the flood of illegal immigrants into this country is reaching 'epidemic proportions.' While that statement is true--it is just as true that the illegal immigrants pouring over the U.S.-Mexican border are endangering this country with actual epidemics. Tuberculosis, hepatitis, dengue fever, chagas, and even leprosy are being imported into the U.S. inside the bodies of illegal aliens...And you thought they only carried heroin-filled baloons inside their bodies!
A 'hot-zone' of disease can be found in this nations border states. Illegal immigrants are setting up so-called "colonias" just inside the states of New Mexico, Texas, and Arizona. The shanty towns are comprised mostly of cardboard shacks and huts made with cast-off building materials. They have no sanitation, and are surrounded by mounds of garbage. The estimated 185,000 illegals share their makeshift towns with armies of rats. Of course, diseases only common to Central and South America run rampant in these places.

One of the imports to this country is chagas disease. It is caused by a parasite known as trypanosome. It is a blood-borne disease and is spread by triatomine insects. The parasite burrows into human tissue (usually in the face), where it then begins to multiply. In addition to being spread by insects, it can also be contracted through blood transfusions.

After cases of chagas were reportedly discovered to have been spread by transfusions in Canada, that nation began testing all blood donations for the disease.

For 40 years, the number of recorded cases of leprosy within the United States totaled 900. Today, we know of more than 7,000 current cases of leprosy in the U.S.

Dr. John Levis of New York's Bellevue Hospital's Hansen Disease Clinic said of America's documented cases of leprosy: 'There are probably many, many more and they are spreading."

Most of those in the U.S. who are suffering from leprosy are from Mexico, India, Brazil, and the Caribbean. However, there are a few documented cases in which the person became infected with leprosy inside the U.S. The majority of the cases have been discovered in this nation's northeastern region.

Once thought to be nearly eradicated in this country, TB is now making a strong comeback. In a recent interview with Mother Jones Magazine, Dr. Reichman of The New Jersey TB Clinic recently said: In the 1990's, cases among foreign born Americans rose from 29 percent to 41.6 percent. Antibiotic resistant strains from Mexico have migrated to Texas. Since three years ago, 16,000 new cases of TB were discovered in the United States. Half were foreign born. Strains of TB once only found in Mexico have migrated to the border states of Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, and California. It will move north as illegal aliens work in restaurants as cooks, dishwashers, and food handlers. We sit on the edge of a potential catastrophe."

In 2001, New York's Tuberculosis Control Program discovered that 81 percent of that city's new cases of TB were attributed to immigrants

Cases of TB are now being found in many areas of the country, where there are high concentrations of illegal immigrants. In March of 2002, The Washington Post reported that Virginia's Prince William County experienced a 188 percent increase of TB infections over the previous year. Yes, the streets of Prince William County are over-run with illegal aliens seeking day-laborer jobs.

Last year, the rate of TB in the northern part of Virginia rose 17 percent. The Va. Department of Health blamed the rise on that region's recent flood of illegal immigrants. Many strains of TB are being found in certain neighborhoods, which are dominated by illegal Latin American immigrants.

The threats posed to our country by illegal immigration are many. However, our political leaders will undoubtedly continue to ignore them. Our own president is willing to place all Americans at risk, in exchange for securing the Latino vote for the Republican Party.

If left unchecked, illegal immigration will destroy this nation one way or another.

mrhuckins
May 27, 2005, 06:12 AM
If you are imigrating to this country to be a part of it, then I think you should adapt to its environment. The national language is American (our language is not English as many of you suspect). If you can't speak American, you shouldn't get a green card. PERIOD! Guess what, that guy that you buy groceries from? He was probably born here, and speaks American, not Cantonese, German, Russian, etc. Same with your boss, co-workers, neighbors etc. That is unless you move to this country, form your own exclusive community, and separate yourself from our culture and way of life. (self imposed segregation anyone?)

I think its just rude to be in public in America, and speak any language that isn't American. Unless your a tourist from another country. A tourist that is leaving soon.

stevelyn
May 27, 2005, 09:31 AM
Too bad we don't have a Republican president and congress to take action.

:D

wingman
May 27, 2005, 09:32 AM
xenophobic racist
Here we go again, isnt it strange, it seems one must be a racist only if you live in America, your white and your for controlling our borders. What a shame, wake up folks its not being a racist wanting to maintain our quality of life and with the present rate of "illegal" immigration this will not be possible in a few years. Yes, it would be nice to feed and provide for the world but should we kill ourselves in the process. Is it possible our schools, hospitals, roads, etc. can continue to operate under the continued rising population.

Ask yourself why do you limit the size of your family, so perhaps you can feed,cloth and school them. It that because you hate children or perhaps a wise decision.

We need and require a moratorium on all immigration for at least 3 years and then have a controlled immigration policy that works. Will it happen, no, because of the greed of those in control. :mad:

horge
May 27, 2005, 09:45 AM
The racism card is pure hoo-haaa.

The United States, like any other sovereign country, has the sole right to police its borders, and to set and enforce its immigration policies. Last time I heard, free discussion among its citizens was indispensable to how the US government worked to serve them.

As big as it is, the US is finite.
I've been coming to the US every couple of years, and some neighborhoods have been swallowed up by a tide of new immigrants, a few of them for the better but the majority for the worse. We're talking all manner of skin tones here, from what you would call white to what you would call black. Legal or illegal immigrants, who knows?

If criminals constitute a 'race', :scrutiny:
then I guess the call to keep out illegal immigrants might be racist.

So far the call has been to either
1. Severely restrict current immigration quotas.
2. End illegal immigration

Where's 'racism' in those two?

Gunsnrovers
May 27, 2005, 10:00 AM
Are they just poor Chinese looking for a better living, or are they Chinese troops deployed to America.

One million Chinese can't be Wong.


Sorry. :)

Chinese immigration through Mexico is not new. Head to Mexico and you will see a fairely decent % of mixed Chinese/Mexican heritage.

We brought them over as cheap labor in the 1800's, why do you think they're going to stop coming now? It's much easier to land in Mexico and make your way North then to sneak into Long Beach.

CleverName
May 27, 2005, 12:40 PM
No, it is not racist to want to control borders. At least not always. If you want to control the borders because you want to keep certain cultures out, you are a racist. If you want to control the borders in order to manage a national security risk, you are not racist.

But suspecting all young Chinese-looking men as Chicom soldiers? That's deluded, sterotypes many young Chinese and Chinese Americans (because, after all, it is impossible to tell on sight whether somebody is a 4th generation American or was smuggled in yesterday, no matter what nationality they are), and will most likely be viewed by others as racist.

mrhuckins-
Why are you so offended when people speak a language other than American English? As one ages, the chance of learning another language - truly learning, not just a couple phrases - lessens by a great deal. You would have a old grandmother be silent in public merely because at her age, the chance of her learning a second language is nil?

Also, being bilingual is a skill highly prized by many employers. Don't US Special Forces have to be fluent in another language?

I'm sure that if I transplanted anybody from this board to any foreign land, you would naturally try to find the other American expats, and form at least a semblance of a community. I'm sure you'd also feel safer there, especially when you don't have to deal with your new tounge.

dasmi
May 27, 2005, 12:44 PM
Why are you so offended when people speak a language other than American English?
I personally am not offended. Speak whatever language you want. BUT, if you want to conduct business, you must speak the language of the land. This is America, we speak English, if you want to work here, learn. No one in France would expect anything less than me to learn French if I wanted to work there. No one would bat an eye if Germans demanded I learn German to work in Germany.

CleverName
May 27, 2005, 12:59 PM
Perhaps this is colored to some degree by my own experiences as an expat.

When I was about 8, for 2 years I went to school in Hong Kong. I didn't speak much Cantonese at the time, and found getting along very difficult. I must thank the British school system because without it I would not have been able to get along at all. My Cantonese wasn't much better when I left than when I arrived. I was far too young to know any of this sophisticated politiking around language, all that I knew was I wanted to go back home to America, and didn't particularly like having to learn a new language.

DRZinn
May 27, 2005, 01:34 PM
Why are some gun owners advocating total cultural homogenity enforced through Government power?Unless I missed it, no-one advocated government enforcement.

My Cantonese wasn't much better when I left than when I arrived.THAT is what you can thank the British school system for. Had you been forced to learn it, you could probably pass for Chinese over the phone. (Something in there about the fact that any color can pass for American, but a white man could never pass as Chinese...)

Edited to add: It's the same damn situation as when we teach immigrants (legal or otherwise, but only the Spanish-speaking ones) in their native language in our schools. Surprise surprise, they grow up without ever learning proper English!

BamBam-31
May 27, 2005, 02:03 PM
Being against illegal immigration does not mean you're racist, but it does often align you with people that are. Same goes for those that advocate an "English only" rule. The race card definitely is in play here; to deny that is simply inane.

Moderators, why is it that when racist statements are made against people of Asian descent, they are tolerated or ignored? What if you substituted Jewish, Black, or Muslim instead of Mexican or Chinese? How much would a thread like that be tolerated? "All young male Muslims are terrorists cells lying in wait!!" Please. :rolleyes:

Sactown
May 27, 2005, 02:10 PM
I'm actually a sleeper agent. I'm training to fight you and read what you are carrying in case I run into you....

Damn Skunk, they're on to us. I'll meet you at the alternate meeting site.

XLMiguel
May 27, 2005, 02:32 PM
/rant [on]/
Of course the [legal] newcomers are welcome, but 'you peopel' knew this was an English-speaking country when you came here, so learn the language, get a good job, and have a good life', but otherwise SD&STFU, we ain't reprinting everything in Spanish/Farsi/Arabic/Chinese or any other lingo-du-jour. It is a common language that unites us all and furthers the discourse on freedom and liberty.

Similarly, you also knew that this was a Western, pluralistic, secular culture with a Christian tradition before you came here, and if you want to dress funny and pray to the East, we don't care (actually, we encourage prayer), but you'll be happier in the long run if you figure out how to fit in and get along. It is not our job to 'accomodate' you.

All the whiney, blissninny liberal idiots who think that 'multiculturalism' is some sort or social goal, and think that we should 'celebrate diversity', REALLY piss me off. They aren't helping anyone. E Pluribus Unum, morons! America is 'the melting pot', we are multicultural by definition. Always have been. The last thing we need is a bunch of politically correct, hyphenated "-Americans" to fragment things. It focuses on where you're from, not where you're going. We are ALL Americans. Period.

High among the reasons we are the great (and still improving) nation we are today is because we have been able to assimilate and integrate the best features and values of all the diverse people (and their associated cultures) who have come to this country. American culture is a spicy gumbo of world cultures. It is unique, vibrant, evolutionary, and, oh, yeah, diverse - and that's what makes it "American", and we treasure that.

If you want to speak Spanish and live in a Latin society, stay where you are. If you want to live in an Islamic theocracy, stay where you are. If you want to live in a racially/ethnically/culturally homogeneous society, stay where you are. But if you want to live in the country that has produced more prosperity for more people than any other on Earth; while at the same time being the most generous nation on Earth in providing more aid and assistance to the entire rest of the world, give the U.S. a try. All we ask is that you learn the language, work hard, pay your taxes, obey the law (as best you can on the last two, we have way too many of each) and embrace the notions of "In God We Trust" and "E Pluribus Unum". Though there are no guarantees in life, if you get with the program here (that includes 'fit in' and 'get along' with the rest of us), you'll likely do well. (And BTW, we expect no less from our own citizens-). Live well, and prosper.
/rant [off]/

For those who came to work to better themselves, have at. For those who think they can just sneak in ride the gravy train of public assistance, read on:

Bill of NO Rights
"We, the sensible people of the United States, in an attempt to help everyone get along, restore some semblance of justice, avoid any more riots, keep our nation safe, promote positive behavior, and secure the blessings of debt-free liberty to ourselves and our great-great-great grandchildren, hereby try one more time to ordain and establish some common sense guidelines for the terminally whiny, guilt ridden, delusional, and other liberal bedwetters. We hold these truths to be self-evident: that a whole lot of people are confused by the Bill of Rights and are so dim that they require a Bill of No Rights.
ARTICLE I: You do not have the right to a new car, big screen TV or any other form of wealth. More power to you if you can legally acquire them, but no one is guaranteeing anything.
ARTICLE II: You do not have the right to never be offended. This country is based on freedom, and that means freedom for everyone - not just you! You may leave the room, turn the channel, express a different opinion, etc., but the world is full of idiots, and probably always will be.
ARTICLE III: You do not have the right to be free from harm. If you stick a screwdriver in your eye, learn to be more careful; do not expect the tool manufacturer to make you and all your relatives independently wealthy.
ARTICLE IV: You do not have the right to free food and housing. Americans are the most charitable people to be found, and will gladly help anyone in need, but we are quickly growing weary of subsidizing generation after generation of professional couch potatoes who achieve nothing more than the creation of another generation of professional couch potatoes.
ARTICLE V: You do not have the right to free health care. That would be nice, but from the looks of public housing, we're just not interested in public health care.
ARTICLE VI: You do not have the right to physically harm other people. If you kidnap, rape, intentionally maim, or kill someone, don't be surprised if the rest of us want to see you fry in the electric chair.
ARTICLE VII: You do not have the right to the possessions of others. If you rob, cheat or coerce away the goods or services of other citizens, don't be surprised if the rest of us get together and lock you away in a place where you still won't have the right to a big screen color TV or a life of leisure.
ARTICLE VIII: You don't have the right to demand that our children risk their lives in foreign wars to soothe your aching conscience. We hate oppressive governments and won't lift a finger to stop you from going to fight if you'd like. However, we do not enjoy parenting the whole world and do not want to spend so much of our time battling each and every little tyrant with a military uniform and a funny hat.
ARTICLE IX: You don't always have the right to a job. All of us sure want all of you to have one, and will gladly help you along in hard times, but we expect you to take advantage of the opportunities of education and vocational training laid before you to make yourself useful.
ARTICLE X: You do not have the right to happiness. Being an American means that you have the right to pursue happiness - which by the way, is a lot easier if you are unencumbered by an overabundance of idiotic laws created by those of you who were confused by the Bill of Rights."

gunsmith
May 27, 2005, 02:44 PM
clever name
I've been run off the road and nearly killed because the people driving refuse to learn enough english to read the darn street signs.
lack of english skills dooms them to menial work as well.

Tinker
May 27, 2005, 03:03 PM
You go to live in China, you learn the language. Same as France or whatever. At least if you want to make your way.

In the late 60's (elementary school in Houston) we heard someone crying in the hallway during class. Teach found a little Mexican boy just curled up and bawling his head off. A debriefing from a bilingual teacher determined that he was an illegal whose parents had just dumped him off because they "..knew he had to go to school..." Jesus turned out to be a real sharp kid. At that time, there was no special education classes for teaching English. He picked it up with just a tiny bit of info from that Spanish speaking teacher who'd tutor him from time to time. Once he got semi-conversational, he was able to learn in our special ed and he'd ask us what 'this' or 'that' was called. By the end of the next school year he'd not only damn near mastered spoken English, but he'd also caught up to us in his same grade level. He also asked us to call him Jesse. He said it sounded more American to him.

My mother was born of German and Czech immigrant families. Her older family all still spoke "old counrty" among themselves. They only spoke in English to her and the other kids or when dealing with folks in town. She begged her mother and father to teach her thier native languages but they refused. The answer always went like this: "No, no, no....we are Americans, this is America, speak English here."

BamBam-31
May 27, 2005, 04:32 PM
He also asked us to call him Jesse. He said it sounded more American to him.
She begged her mother and father to teach her thier native languages but they refused. The answer always went like this: "No, no, no....we are Americans, this is America, speak English here."

How sad. :(

Unless I missed it, no-one advocated government enforcement.

You missed it. Here it is again:

It has been my candid observation over many years that immigrants, both legal and illegal, come here not to become Americans, but to set up their exclusive enclaves and NOT integrate into our society as Americans. I object to that and I feel we should not allow it. We should do away with this multilingual BS and insist they learn the language of this country, which is ENGLISH!!!

I don't think she means through local PTA meetings, either. This is the same lady that advocated building a "Berlin wall" at the U.S.-Mexican border, and lacing our side of it with "toe-poppers." :rolleyes: I wouldn't want this lady making arguments for my side.

It is a common language that unites us all and furthers the discourse on freedom and liberty.

Really? English is my primary language, and I love it, but this is at the very least an overstatement. I'd think what unites us as Americans and what brings in future Americans is the BELIEF in freedom and liberty as a way of life. The particular language in which you say "freedom" and "liberty" is of little consequence. Other than that, I can't really make out the rest of your rambling post. Seems conflicted to me.

Skunkabilly
May 27, 2005, 05:06 PM
I've been run off the road and nearly killed because the people driving refuse to learn enough english to read the darn street signs.
lack of english skills dooms them to menial work as well.

I wasn't there, but you are sure it was because of their lack of language skills, not their being in Condition White and/or being vehicularly challenged?

Being a bad driver seems to transcend language barriers, at least here in Orange County.

Skunkabilly
May 27, 2005, 05:08 PM
Sactown,

Damn Skunk, they're on to us. I'll meet you at the alternate meeting site.

Bring your R93!!! (although I can't read German)

Gunsnrovers
May 27, 2005, 05:14 PM
Skunk beat me to. Bad driving, a lack of social skills, and general ignorance know no color barrier.

Skunkabilly
May 27, 2005, 05:18 PM
Skunk beat me to.

I'm tactical like that.

Gunsnrovers
May 27, 2005, 05:25 PM
Well you are in Tacticalifornia and I'm in "bleet bleet" Los Angeles. Plus you have that Ninja stealth and all that Chinese infiltration training. Practicing the art of deflection.

Skunkabilly
May 27, 2005, 05:34 PM
Plus you have that Ninja stealth and all that Chinese infiltration training. Practicing the art of deflection.

I can even pick the banjo. They'll never suspect me of being a Commie even if I am a Chinaperson of miritary age....

A Cleaner
May 27, 2005, 05:41 PM
The rights that everyone here benefits from were written in one language.

BamBam-31
May 27, 2005, 07:11 PM
So? Are they limited to that language? Please. :rolleyes:

They were also written on paper, so do they exist only on paper? :rolleyes: x2

BamBam-31
May 27, 2005, 07:17 PM
Bad driving, a lack of social skills, and general ignorance know no color barrier.

No, it's because squinty-eyed Chinese immigrants can't see, can't read, and can't speak Engarish.

WHO'S ignorant? :banghead:

El Tejon
May 28, 2005, 10:26 AM
Oh, good grief! :rolleyes: The YELLOW PERIL again? :uhoh: And the Border Guards here tell us that their immigration concerns are not about racism.

The US went nuts over Chinese immigration over 125 years ago based on racist hysteria (they were diseased, bred like rabbits, inclined toward criminality, inter alia). Today the Chinese make unbelievable, outstanding contributions to the nation. Heck, just look at THR. :D

If the concern is for "national security", surely we can make arguments against immigration without reverting to rasism. Bad for our common cause of the RKBA. :)

I ask the Border Guards, what's wrong with speaking other languages? You don't seem to mind anyone speaking Gaelic, German or Polish. Why are Spanish, Farsi and dialects of Chinese wrong?

XLMiguel
May 28, 2005, 10:56 AM
Bam-Bam - that's why it's called a rant - it's not intended to be a paragon of logic, just an emotional response to a frustrating topic.

On the topic of immigration, regardless of the legal vs illegal issues, what do we reasonably expect of immigrants? I expect them to learn the language in order to fully participate in the opportunities available here, as well as fulfilling the [I]responsibilities[/i} of citizenshihp, just as I would expect to need to learn the laguage of any foreign counrty I might immigrate to.

If they come for a better life and become an American (whatever that is), fine; if they just come to take advantage of the opportunities without becoming contributing members of the society, screw 'em, we don't need them, they are parasites, JMNSHO.

Edited to add: I'm speaking about all immigrants, not just Asians.

DRZinn
May 28, 2005, 10:57 AM
And the Border Guards here tell us that their immigration concerns are not about racism. You're damn right I do. I can't and won't speak for anyone else.

BryanP
May 28, 2005, 11:00 AM
Oh, good grief! The YELLOW PERIL again?
Paging Frank Burns, paging Frank Burns...

You don't seem to mind anyone speaking Gaelic, German or Polish. Why are Spanish, Farsi and dialects of Chinese wrong?
El Tejon, there you go inserting logic again. You know that's now allowed in these threads. ;)

El Tejon
May 28, 2005, 11:06 AM
Bryan, I'll keep my Cantonese CDs turned down low. Don't want DHS swooping down on me. :uhoh: :D

Don't know how the Border Guards would deal with me, a white boy learning Cantonese. Probably just short term re-education camp and mandatory Oktoberfesten (I'm buying!). :D

Gunsnrovers
May 28, 2005, 11:09 AM
I'm still trying to figure out what BamBam meant by quoting my post...

Skunkabilly
May 28, 2005, 12:11 PM
El T.,

The US went nuts over Chinese immigration over 125 years ago based on racist hysteria (they were diseased, bred like rabbits, inclined toward criminality, inter alia).

Well,
Diseased: SARS
Bred like rabbits: Hey, what can I say :D
Inclined toward criminality: I think it got lost in the translation--inclined toward TACTICALITY. The criminality didn't happen until AFTER 1934 when all that stuff became illegal :evil:

I'll keep my Cantonese CDs turned down low. Don't want DHS swooping down on me.

:barf: Cantonese CDs??? :barf:

Skunk's friend: "Why are your parents yelling at eachother?"
Skunk: "Oh, they're not mad, they're just talking."
Skunk's friend: "They sound mad...."
Skunk: "....."

Mike in VA,

If they come for a better life and become an American (whatever that is), fine; if they just come to take advantage of the opportunities without becoming contributing members of the society, screw 'em, we don't need them, they are parasites, JMNSHO.

So who decides who is productive and who is being a leach? My dad can't stand a lot of the recent Chinese immigrant population for the same reasons--people driving Lexuses (Lexii?) paying for food with welfare checks.

The fault here isn't completely on the Mexican, Chinese, Serb, or whatever immigrants. It's our welfare system. Who can resist a freebie? If we keep giving stuff away, people will come.

El Tejon
May 28, 2005, 12:20 PM
Skunkysan, yeah, Cantonese CDs. How else to study? Is it true that there are 20 ways to say "Go [do something to yourself that Art's grandmother would not approve of] yourself!" in Gwangdongwah?

My mother was born in Plainfield, my father in Bloomington--I was lucky to master English. :D I just need to find a long-haired dictionary. :cool:

After writing a big fat check Friday for my quarteriles coming up, I think I should decide who's being productive and who's being a leech. :)

BryanP
May 28, 2005, 12:21 PM
people driving Lexuses (Lexii?) paying for food with welfare checks.

Horrible. I've never seen any white folk like that around here.

Really.

Okay, maybe one or two. :rolleyes:

RKCheung
May 28, 2005, 01:02 PM
Self-edit for sarcastic, emotional comment.

:banghead:

BamBam-31
May 28, 2005, 01:51 PM
Gunsnrovers,

Your post (and Skunk's) made so much sense, it had to be repeated. I was being sarcastic when I put in writing what some of the other posters were thinking but were too afraid to write. Hopefully, by actually seeing it in writing, they'll realize just how ignorant those beliefs are. Hopefully....

Art Eatman
May 28, 2005, 02:07 PM
Well, I'll just gripe at some of the styles of posters in threads like this:

Somebody brings up some anecdotal example of a Bad Thing on the part of one or some of any ethnic group. Somebody else takes it as meaning "all" of a group, whether or not that was intended--so here comes a thread veer away from the basic topic.

Alternatively, somebody will fairly obviously imply "all". That ain't righteous, either. Folks oughta know better.

"Think twice, post once" is a heckuva lot better than "Post quick, don't think."

About legal immigration with the idea of citizenship as a goal: It once was that a certain fluency in english was required before one could become a US citizen. I forget the full title, but a fun read involves the trials and tribulations of one H*Y*M*A*N K*A*P*L*A*N if you don't mind doing some Googling. (I don't remember the full title of this 1940s/50s book.) For reasons known only to Hyman, he always printed his name in capitals with the asterisks between the letters.)

Art

Gunsnrovers
May 28, 2005, 08:52 PM
Thanks. I was wracking my brain reading and rereading my post trying to find the typo that got it misunderstood. :o

I'm staunchly pro "keep the borders open for legal immigration" and wanted to be clear. My family has been here under 100 years and none of my relatives ever considered themselves anything other then American after stepping through into New York. I just wish they had come across with more so that we had more history of their lives in Europe.

PS - Art, I have some neat little handbooks from the 20's and 30's that were given out to help immigrants pass citizenship tests. :D

Art Eatman
May 29, 2005, 12:06 AM
Gunsnrovers, I've never seen it as important that all branches of my family have been in the US for a long time. What's important to me is what they did with their lives after they got here.

(I grant that there are times when I enjoy it when some old Boar Dinosaur of a rancher rears back and allows, "Why, my grand-daddy came out to Texas and started ranching in 1890!" and I comment, "Oh, a newcomer..." :D It's an attitude thing.)

IOW, I think it's sorta neat when a Vietnamese (e.g.) kid is valedictorian of his high school, coming here with little or no background in English. The importance is in what he did with his life, not how long he was here.

I'll sit and drink a beer with anybody from anywhere, so long as they're legal and self-supporting.

:), Art

DRZinn
May 29, 2005, 11:52 AM
It's our welfare system. Who can resist a freebie? If we keep giving stuff away, people will come.Laaadeees and Gennulmen! We haaave a weeenah!

I was being sarcastic when I put in writing what some of the other posters were thinking but were too afraid to write.No, you put in writing what you think the other posters have in mind, since it's the only possible reason for us to criticize someone of another ethnic group, right? It must be racism. So you set yourself up as a straw man of the anti-illegal argument, and your buddies jump all over it. Pretty slick, but it STILL doesn't make me a racist. When will you realize that there are legitimate non-racial reasons for being anti-illegal immigration?

Art Eatman
May 29, 2005, 12:21 PM
Well, Doc, it's an ancient saying: "If you want more of something, subsidize it."

Subsidize, in the sense of government benefits paid from the taxes of the productive. I note that Tallahassee, Florida, put public monies into shelters for the homeless. The local population of homeless people increased. I won't do more than just mention in passing, "welfare".

For all practical purposes, there are no penalties for illegal entry into the US for a large majority of those who try. There are many benefits, including US Government programs that apply to all who are somewhere near upright, breathing and poor. Subsidies.

Whether citizen or non-citizen, all ethnic groups have problem-people. Aryan Nation, KKK, Chinese tongs, Salvadoran MS 13, Crips and Bloods, Christian Identity--and on down to "just plain sorry".

From the standpoint of numbers and taxpayer-dollar costs, the largest problem-people at the moment are the illegals. You don't have to be anywhere near "racist" to hold that view.

Art

wingman
May 29, 2005, 01:37 PM
When will you realize that there are legitimate non-racial reasons for being anti-illegal immigration?


Some seem to take a long time, I traveled in various parts of the world and
I have seen more racism in other cultures then in America, doesnt make it
right anywhere but it exist. Our Public schools for the most part has taught
the only person who can be racist is a white person. This is one reason most
politicians won't touch the illegal issue because they run scared and of course
this is what the far left wants.

The idea of assimilation has changed somewhat simply because of large numbers coming in, plus our society no long exerts any pressure on new
immigrants to do so because that would be considered wrong.

Some years back I lived in a small border town most immigrants coming in
wanted to learn english fast, now in that same town it is almost 100%
spanish speaking they are in fact intolerent of anyone speaking english
especially if that person is Mexican. Try going there and get a job if you
are white, racism, yes or no.

The idea of immigration is great if controlled in some manner however we no
longer live in the 1800's, accepting large numbers of folks with 8th grade
education or less has and will effect the quality of life of people now in this
country. I'm not sure any system can withstand the present numbers that
come across our borders. :(

DRZinn
May 29, 2005, 10:15 PM
I note that Tallahassee, Florida, put public monies into shelters for the homeless. The local population of homeless people increased.Yeah, kinda funny how there aren't many homeless people in farm country...

Skunkabilly
May 29, 2005, 10:30 PM
El T.,

Skunkysan, yeah, Cantonese CDs. How else to study? Is it true that there are 20 ways to say "Go [do something to yourself that Art's grandmother would not approve of] yourself!" in Gwangdongwah?


Ohhhhhhh, THOSE Canto CDs...I thought you were listening to Canto pop music!! *whew*

As for the 20 ways, the Cantonese are verbally creative. :evil:

BamBam-31
May 30, 2005, 01:35 AM
Pretty slick, but it STILL doesn't make me a racist. When will you realize that there are legitimate non-racial reasons for being anti-illegal immigration?

:confused: Wasn't thinking of you in particular when I wrote that, DocZinn. And I'm not against people that are against illegal immigration, I'm just against the ignorance and racism that inevitably rears its ugly head whenever issues like these are discussed. Read between the lines in what posters have said in just this thread, and you'll see what I mean. I object to that, I object to the narrow-mindedness of it all, and I object to the blind eye that is invariably turned towards it because those beliefs are so commonplace they've become quasi-acceptable.

For the record, I believe there are a plethora of legitimate reasons to be against illegal immigration. I've got between four and six relatives (depending on pending marriages) that work in Homeland Security, plus I've owned residential rental properties in lower income Hispanic neighborhoods in Los Angeles for over two decades now, so I've got more than my fair share of first and secondhand experiences with illegal immigrants and their effects on our socioeconomic fabric. With all due respect to my relatives, we've been far too lax in enforcing existing immigration laws.

FWIW, Art Eatman's last two posts closely reflect my own beliefs with regards to race and immigration.

Gunsnrovers
May 30, 2005, 10:32 AM
I'll sit and drink a beer with anybody from anywhere, so long as they're legal and self-supporting.

That pretty much sums it up for me, but if I've had a head start, I am often not that picky. :)

DRZinn
May 31, 2005, 01:12 PM
Wasn't thinking of you in particular when I wrote that, DocZinn. And I'm not against people that are against illegal immigration, I'm just against the ignorance and racism that inevitably rears its ugly head whenever issues like these are discussed.I'm just a little touchy on that, for two reasons:

1. There are still racists out there, and they tend to agree with me on this issue, which also lends support to:

2. Pro-illegal immigration advocates paint all anti-illegal immigration advocates (such as me) with the same racist brush, knowing damn well it's not true. But if they can make the observers think that racism is the only reason for wanting to stop illegal immigration, then they'll win some hearts and minds. Not suprisingly, due to the lack of critical thought in the average citizen today, it works quite often.

BamBam-31
May 31, 2005, 02:04 PM
There are still racists out there, and they tend to agree with me on this issue

Do a search on the gentleman that started this thread, read the threads he starts and/or posts in. Not surprisingly, the people of whom you speak flock to those same threads in alarming numbers. The man is on a crusade.

Desertdog
May 31, 2005, 02:14 PM
The man is on a crusade
Yes, I am on a crusade to help stop ILLEGALs from coming here.
I do WELCOME LEGAL immigrants regardless of race.

BamBam-31
May 31, 2005, 07:37 PM
How? By combing the interweb for stories you can post here to fan the flames of xenophobia? By posting paranoid drivel that's open to the misinterpretation Art's talking about, like:

It makes me wonder just how many Chinese of military age we have hiding in this country. The biggest question is; Are they just poor Chinese looking for a better living, or are they Chinese troops deployed to America.

Bravo. Seeing as how racism is an Achilles heel for the anti-illegal immigration movement, you do yourself no favors.

Test1968
May 31, 2005, 08:44 PM
When I was working for the city & county of SF it seemed like 90% of the workforce was illegal Chinese aliens,I think it is illegal to even ask CA State and city job applicants if they're here legally-I remember one State employee was deported to the Phillipines a year or so ago-worked for CA allmost 20yrs!


I can only assume this was quite some time ago, or is SF county in the habit of violating Federal law and the I-9 forms all new employees have to fill out?

I can't fathom how (or it seemed to me) that someone can state and believe that not wanting ILLEGAL immigration is racist.

I grew up in an area that had a LOT of immigrant families. Different cultures languages, and foods. The one unifying thread thru all of them was they wanted to be American. Some did have an English only rule at home, only broken for the relaitives who were visiting. Some spoke their native language in the home, but it had to be English outside.

I now live on the border, and a good bit of the population does not speak English. It makes it harder to communicate with them, and makes it harder for them to succeed in school and business, but the people that hate the illegals the most, are the ones who came here legally, and took the oath of citizenship. They are not racist. They simply want people coming here to obey our laws, as we are expected to obey theirs when we are in their country.

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