Taurus 85 Ultralite lock issues?

[mtnbkr]

I'm thinking about buying one of these for my "travel" gun. A necessary feature is for it to be easily secured since I'll be taking it places where I won't have a storage container (I have a young daughter). I'm tired of carrying a secondary lock and have decided that a built in lock might be desirable. With an internal lock, I can lock it and put it back in the holster.

I have experience with the Taurus lock via an M94 I owned years ago. The lock gave me no trouble, but it's a light recoiling gun. Does anyone know of any *documented* cases of the lock in their more powerful guns accidentally engaging?

Thanks,
Chris

[Erich]

No, never heard of it happening on a Taurus that I can recall.

The uncomplicated hammer-mounted lock (a much better system than that used by S&W, BTW) requires quite a turn to engage it. I can't see it happening from .38 ammo.

I owned a 415 Ti (a 21-ounce .41 magnum Taurus) and fired some fairly spicy loads through it. The lock never even thought about self-engaging. There's no way the recoil impulse from any .38 special through the Ultralightweight could possibly match that of the 210-grain .41 magnums leaving the 415 Ti.

I wouldn't even give it another thought. :)

[Old Fuff]

Over the years I have owned a number of Taurus revolvers, off and on. Some of them have been Ultra-Liteweight snubbies. If anything should go wrong with the lock I think that this is where it would most likely happen. So far, nothing has.

I don't like the lock, or rather the concept of having them. However so far none of the Taurus locks have given me any trouble, and if one has to have a lock (which for obvious reasons you do) then I would go for the Taurus locking system over others.

You didn't mention your daughter's age, but if she is 3 or under I would suggest that you consider a Taurus CIA (Carry It Anywhere) model with the enclosed hammer and DAO lockwork. It is far harder for a small child to operate.

[dawei]

10,000+ rounds through my Mdl 617 and the lock has never budged. Use Your gun with confidence!

[BullRock]

Ultra-Liteweight snubbies. If anything should go wrong with the lock I think that this is where it would most likely happen. So far, nothing has.

I agree with Old Fuff...I've never had that problem with my Taurus Ultra-Lite 85 .32Spl.+p, or my much larger Tracker 627... :)

[mtnbkr]

You didn't mention your daughter's age, but if she is 3 or under I would suggest that you consider a Taurus CIA (Carry It Anywhere) model with the enclosed hammer and DAO lockwork. It is far harder for a small child to operate.
She's not quite two yet. How's the CIA harder to operate other than the lack of a SA option?

Thanks for the insights guys!

Chris

[bakert]

I've been carrying a steel Taurus 85 for times when I really want to hide a gun for the last few years. Other than to show someone how the lock works I almost forget it's there. I practice with regular .38 loads but run a few 158 LSWCHP+Ps or 125gr +Ps through it at least once a session. I've talked to others with the Ultralite, in fact kinda wish I'd gotten one. No problems at all. Don't think you have to worry about the lock.
Baker

[Old Fuff]

>> How's the CIA harder to operate other than the lack of a SA option? <<

Small children (around 3 to 6) have been known to get a conventional revolver's hammer cocked using both hands. Then a light 3 1/2 pound pull (give or take) on the trigger will fire the gun. Unfortunately it has happened.

A revolver, such as the CIA, has an enclosed hammer that can't be cocked by hand. Firing such a gun requires a much heavier pull on the trigger of about 12 pounds to fire it.

All of this doesn't child-proof a gun, but it makes it more small-child resistant.

Continuing in this vain ... A smaller gun is easier for a child to operate then a larger one because it is better scaled to their hands. If you were to chose a larger model Taurus and have the hammer spur removed (if it didn't come that way) you would have most of the advantages of the CIA, with a revolver that would be even harder for a SMALL child to shoot, given the longer reach from the back of the handle to the trigger face combined with little fingers. The lock would not be affected.

But all of this might be counterproductive so far as you're intended use.

[mtnbkr]

Ahhh, makes complete sense.

Does the CIA come in an Ultralite model? I haven't seen it on their website. I don't mind a DAO gun, all of mine except my GP100 are DAO anyway (I only shot DA).

Chris

[sm]

BTT

Good info for folks with little kids.

I suggest a sticky, since this topic has been of interest of late. Library reference a good idea as well. Maybe a "file" for Firearms and Kids.

[Old Fuff]

Mtnbkr:

The CIA-UltraLite is available in .38 Special (including +P) in blue (850B2UL) or stainless (850SS2UL). Also .357 Magnum (which I don't like) in blued steel (650B2) or stainless steel (650SS2). For more information go to: www.taurususa.com

[mtnbkr]

Thanks Fuff. I've looked at their site before, but never saw a CIA that was UL as well. Part of the problem is the poor way their search engine displays results. I'll look using the part numbers you supply, thanks!

Chris

[camper]

Check out the Titanium Taurus 651 at 17 oz. Gives you a double or single action option.

[Old Fuff]

Unless the slight difference in weight is important, I would recommend that one stay with the all-steel or aluminum-steel models. There have been problems with the titanium cylinders.

The all-steel guns are obviously heavier, but I have found this to be an advantage when shooting a small DAO gun. I have also found that one can hide an all-steel gun in side pockets IF (and only if) a good pocket holster is used.

If Taurus made a titanium revolver with a steel cylinder I might change my mind, but so far they don't.

[Erich]

I would recommend that one stay with the all-steel or aluminum-steel models. There have been problems with the titanium cylinders.

Well, don't leave us hanging, Old Fuff . . . how so? :scrutiny:

[Old Fuff]

Sorry about that. I am aware of cases where the cylinder face got chewed up, with the condition starting in as little as 10 rounds. In other instances the cylinder bound up and wouldn't turn after several shots - this I think because of a combination of a tight cylinder/barrel gap, and titanium's propensity to stretch and/or expanding under pressure. The material is strong, but elastic.

You also have to take special precautions when cleaning the chambers. This is not a defect, but rather an annoyance.

Titanium, like stainless steel is a great marketing tool. In the right applications it does have advantages, but I don't think it is good in a "total" concept.

I would point out that the manufacturer with the most experience with Titanium (in non-gun applications) has not rushed to produce a titanium handgun. It may come, but not without a lot of development work and testing.

That manufacture is Sturm-Ruger.

[gbelleh]

I have a Taurus 85UL that I carry occasionally. It has never locked itself or had any problems of any kind. I don't worry about the lock at all anymore.

[MillCreek]

I would point out that the manufacturer with the most experience with Titanium (in non-gun applications) has not rushed to produce a titanium handgun. It may come, but not without a lot of development work and testing.

That manufacture is Sturm-Ruger.

I handled a prototype titanium SP-101 at a firearms instructors convention back in the late 80's or early 90's. The Ruger rep asked if there would be interest. There was, up until the point at which the rep said it would sell for $ 800. At that point, pretty much all interest ceased. I think Massad Ayoob has also written about the titanium SP-101 prototype.

[JJpdxpinkpistols]

http://www.center-of-mass.com/Store_InCarGunSafe.htm

I have one, and found it to be very easy to operate, simple but effective design. It is obviously opaque, and works well for keeping little fingers from prying. I store a loaded snubby in it (although when I store my snubby, it still has 6 rounds next to it in a speedstrip). I find that this allows me to travel, keep the snub close by in places like my moms house where I am forbidden to carry, and still keep it nearby.

I have a 7 and 4 year old, and tho neither of them are particularly interested in goofin' with my guns--all hail the demostration of the apple and the LSW, I still maintain that the only safe gun in my house is one that is either on my body and therefore "in service", or locked up in the safe with the key in my pocket.

[Erich]

+1 on the Center of Mass gunsafe buy. I have two keyed alike, one for each car.

[mtnbkr]

I've looked at those before and they definately look good, but I want something simpler that I can't forget to pack and won't take up space in the suitcase. Since I'm always going to have the gun on me whenever my pants are on, I'm mainly looking for a bit of security when I'm asleep or in the shower, etc. I would still be putting the gun out of reach, but I don't trust that method alone.

Chris

[JJpdxpinkpistols]

forgive me if I seem a bit overparanoid:

The primary source of failure in any mechanical device is a moving part.

if you have two pieces of 440 steel, properly tempered, with a hinge between the providing a fulcrum, properly secured by suitable bolts, and then you went ape on them with a hammer, and repeatedly bashed them, then the point of failure would almost certainly be the fulcrum, where the weakest link is.

I worry about the same thing with the lock on my 38. It doesn't ever get used on mine, and it strikes me that this would be a very small (focused) point of protection that would be prone to failure if used often (or rusts due to infrequent use).

Having said the above, if your primary concern is keeping a 4 year old from pulling the trigger, then it would probably work. However, keep in mind that that 4 year old's fingers will eventually be a 12 year olds fingers, and that after 8 years of locking the lock, it might just fail.

I am far more inclined to deal with the 3 lbs of weight (and admitted deficiencies) my safe provides me. The safe also has the added advantage of keeping the ammo intact, in the gun, where it belongs. the lock on the Taurus doesn't disable the cyclinder release, so you could unlock it at that needed time, and find yourself with ammo in your slippers, or decorating the doll-shelf (at my house this would be the case.)

The added advantage is that the thing looks like a black case. No reveal of what is inside. I have also used to to store a coupla bucks in the bottom. I could see it used for passports, tickets, rolls of film. Anything you want to keep away from prying eyes or wandering fingers.

Just my 2cents. Discard at will :-)

[denfoote]

My wife bought an 85SSUL years ago.
We disengaged the lock when we brought it home.
It has never given us any trouble!!
Heck, I don't even remember what we did with the key any more!!!