Jose Padilla


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Barbara
May 27, 2005, 10:13 PM
The 3rd anniversary of this US citizen's arrest at O'Hare, and subsequent detention without charges or access to an attorney is approaching.

http://www.cato.org/dailys/08-21-03.html
http://www.time.com/time/pow/article/0,8599,262269,00.html
http://www.crimelibrary.com/terrorists_spies/terrorists/jose_padilla/1.html


No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
5th Amendment to U.S. Constitution


Once again: Charge him, try him, convict him and execute him. Or let him go.

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Sindawe
May 27, 2005, 10:27 PM
What are you Barbara? Some kind of un-patriotic supporter of terrorism?

/sarcasm

If the prosecuting attorneys can't be ready for trail after three years, they ain't got a case.

BryanP
May 27, 2005, 10:30 PM
They don't need a case. They just need a President and Executive Branch willing to twist the Constitution into shapes thoroughly unnatural and a Judiciary spineless enough to let them get away with it.

Barbara
May 27, 2005, 10:45 PM
What are you Barbara? Some kind of un-patriotic supporter of terrorism?

/sarcasm


:neener:

I'm mean to kitty cats, too!

javafiend
May 27, 2005, 10:54 PM
What's that? You got a problem with the police just snatching American citizens off the street without so much as a warrant and holding them incommunicado indefinitely?

Whatsa matter with you? Are you some kinda commie-coddling, terrorist-sympathizing, anti-American lib'ral weenie who blames America first? Surely you aren't saying that suspected terrorists are entitled to any kind of due process, eh? Why would you want to hamstring our Fearless Leader's efforts to fight the war on terrorism?

Why do you hate Bush and America so much?

:neener:

Barbara
May 27, 2005, 11:09 PM
It's white guilt! :p

I'm trying to figure out when it became unpatriotic to care about the Constitution. :uhoh:

javafiend
May 27, 2005, 11:21 PM
It was about eight years ago. According to the FBI, making numerous references to the US Constitution is a sign that you might be considered a domestic terrorist.

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/HR3162.htm

Justin
May 27, 2005, 11:54 PM
javafiend, why do you hate the children so much?

Zundfolge
May 27, 2005, 11:56 PM
Jose Padilla is John Doe #2

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/we-compare.gif

Alex45ACP
May 28, 2005, 12:04 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/6655321/Stopasking.jpg

Sindawe
May 28, 2005, 12:08 AM
Zundfolge: So I'm NOT the only one that see that eh?

dustind
May 28, 2005, 12:23 AM
Citizens are disappearing from our streets without charges or a trial. But we are not a police state. :rolleyes:

The fact that he is (was?) a potential voter proves that this did not happen. As long as any of us can vote nothing bad can possibly happen to us unless we personally vote for it. Being a political activist grants you complete immunity from state abuse. :rolleyes:

If any of you disagree with me (on anything, not just this issue) then you have not written your legislator and are wrong. :neener:

Fletchette
May 28, 2005, 01:28 AM
Keeping Jose Padilla incarcerated this long without charging him is, by definition, a high crime or misdemeanor.

Simply indefensible. :fire:

beerslurpy
May 28, 2005, 02:15 AM
You get put on a list of bad people if you want to defend the constitution? What kind of new communism is this?

Also, what the hell is a "super patriot?" Is that like a patriot that is so patriotic they begin to take their oaths seriously? Maybe the FBI is hunting for super-patriots so they can put them in Congress? We should be so lucky.

God this country is pathetic sometimes.

rick_reno
May 28, 2005, 02:22 AM
It's a not police state until they start housing those that dissappear in someplace like Alaska - or Montana. Until then it's just part of the process of the "War on Terror"

Fletchette
May 28, 2005, 02:36 AM
It's a not police state until they start housing those that dissappear in someplace like Alaska - or Montana.

How about Cuba?

RevDisk
May 28, 2005, 05:01 AM
You are all tin foilers! Trust the govt, they would never abuse the legal system! Tin foil! Uh, Padilla was a horrible person. He probably even owned a .50 cal he was going to use to down aircraft. Uhm... Tin foil! You people obviously need to wear more tin foil! Right wing loonies with agendas, I swear!

:neener:

Honestly, if he's charged with any crime, toss him before a court. Heck, with as many laws that exist on the books, everyone has to have violated something or other eventually. Keep hitting him with different charges until he cops a plea bargain. Force a confession with the promise of early parole.

Justice these days is bought, not served. If you can hire Johny Cochran, you're gonna walk. If you need a public defender, odds are you're going to prison.


It's a not police state until they start housing those that dissappear in someplace like Alaska - or Montana. Until then it's just part of the process of the "War on Terror"

I heard somewhere that reporting certain types of terrorism cases was illegal. Don't quote me on that yet, I will search around and see what the legal requirements for reporting alleged terrorists detained that happen to be US citizens. I wanna know who leaked Padilla's circumstances, and what supposed legal doctrine is actually holding him. I know that Patriot Act covers indefinite holding of aliens, but I'm not so sure about citizens.

Clickity, click

Seriously, I'm not sure what I'd think if I dug up any statutes, laws or executive orders legalizing holding citizen without trial or attorney.

I truly wonder what the soldiers that detain Padilla think. I wouldn't consider any of the officers holding the 'military tribunals' members of the US military anymore. I'm not sure what they are, but I know they're not members of the US military as they broke their oath.

What does a soldier become when he crosses over that line and becomes the domestic enemy of the Constitution? Do any of them think "Gee, maybe I'm doing something wrong."?

mrhuckins
May 28, 2005, 05:18 AM
I'm afraid to disagree with govenment policies, or be outspoken on them.

Unless I'm supposed to.

Fly320s
May 28, 2005, 05:31 AM
Most definitly "double plus ungood."

c_yeager
May 28, 2005, 07:31 AM
Citizens are disappearing from our streets without charges or a trial. But we are not a police state.

While i dissagree with the detainment, and agree that it is a violation of the constitution, the fact that everyone KNOWS he was taken off the street, and that we can freely and publicly discuss and criticize that fact pretty much proves that we arent QUITE a police state just yet.

If the entire WORLD not only knows that you were arrested, but WHERE you are being held and what you are suspected of doing, then you really didnt quite 'dissapear'.

Barbara
May 28, 2005, 08:04 AM
Isn't it disturbing, though, that the entire country knows, or should know, about this, and there haven't been mass protests?

c_yeager
May 28, 2005, 08:15 AM
Isn't it disturbing, though, that the entire country knows, or should know, about this, and there haven't been mass protests?

Its hard to drum up support for terrorists. I oppose the imprisonment as a civil rights issue, not because i have any sympathy for the person being "detained". If they were to simply charge, convict, and excecute the man, i would be fine with that.

Denko
May 28, 2005, 10:52 PM
His Constitutional rights are being violated by many people.These same people swore an oath to uphold the Constitution.I have always wondered why he was not followed.He might have led to other terrorists.That of course is allowing that what the government is saying about him is true.

RevDisk
May 28, 2005, 11:05 PM
While i dissagree with the detainment, and agree that it is a violation of the constitution, the fact that everyone KNOWS he was taken off the street, and that we can freely and publicly discuss and criticize that fact pretty much proves that we arent QUITE a police state just yet.

Everyone KNEW the NKVD disappeared people. It's not a police state when someone disappears and no one notices, it's a police state when everyone knows it happens and nothing happens to the authorities that 'disappear' citizens.

Hawkmoon
May 29, 2005, 12:33 AM
Isn't it disturbing, though, that the entire country knows, or should know, about this, and there haven't been mass protests?
Very disturbing.

bg
May 29, 2005, 02:37 AM
So does this mean the Fore Fathers would be considered terrorists by today's " standards " ?

Isn't it disturbing, though, that the entire country knows, or should know, about this, and there haven't been mass protests?
Disturbing yes, surprising no. One has to realize that the new Star Wars
movie just came out. That's what most everyones' concerned about right
now.. :rolleyes:

mtnbkr
May 29, 2005, 08:25 AM
Jose Padilla is John Doe #2
Then charge him with a crime and take him to court. Mcveigh had a lawyer and his day in court...

So does this mean the Fore Fathers would be considered terrorists by today's " standards " ?
Yes.

Chris

Zundfolge
May 29, 2005, 05:25 PM
Then charge him with a crime and take him to court. Mcveigh had a lawyer and his day in court...


Agreed ... anyone want to guess why this hasn't happened? (I'll give you a hint ... it might poke holes in the theory that OKC was caused by Rush Limbaugh and the White Supremacist Militia movement)

Bruce H
May 29, 2005, 06:37 PM
What is wrong with three years? Ken Lay is still walking around also. :neener:

Flyboy
May 30, 2005, 11:10 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,158042,00.html

See, look, they do know how to bring charges. So there goes that excuse; I guess they just don't care about little things like, you know, rights.

Fletchette
May 30, 2005, 02:03 PM
Agreed ... anyone want to guess why this hasn't happened? (I'll give you a hint ... it might poke holes in the theory that OKC was caused by Rush Limbaugh and the White Supremacist Militia movement)

Zundfolge,

Very intereseting indictment. Do you have any other evidence of Padilla being John Doe #2?

I am sure I will get accussed of wearing a tin-foil-hat, but I also think that there is some credibility to the notion that several of our air "accidents" in the last few years were really acts of terrorism.

To bad us little people have no idea what is going on, since half the information in the known universe seems to be "classified" nowadays...

TheEgg
May 31, 2005, 01:09 PM
Once again: Charge him, try him, convict him and execute him. Or let him go.

Agree 100%. Have written this many times myself.



I simply fail to understand those who participate in, or support such actions on the part of the government. If I worked for the federal government, I would have to resign in protest over this.

But I know that no one will. A steady paycheck obtained by following orders beats 'priniciples' every day, right? :barf:

dasmi
May 31, 2005, 01:11 PM
Once again: Charge him, try him, convict him and execute him. Or let him go.
+1.
This isn't the way things are supposed to be done in America. If he's a terrorist, prove it in court, get him convicted and punished. If you can't prove it, and don't have a case, release him.

Sindawe
May 31, 2005, 01:24 PM
So there goes that excuse; I guess they just don't care about little things like, you know, rights. They don't have to care. They are the government.

Don Gwinn
May 31, 2005, 02:33 PM
At the risk of being labeled a Statist Thug, might I point out that even as one part of our government is asking to hold Padilla without charges, another branch is ordering that he be charged or released?

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=127974&highlight=padilla+release

That was more than 45 days ago, so apparently the expected appeal was filed, but this is NOT a case of Padilla being held and everyone just going along with it. At least one federal judge has already given orders to the contrary, and if the feds lose their appeal(s) he'll either be charged or walk.

Obviously that doesn't make what the Executive has done here right, but Police States generally do not have courts with the capability and inclination to force the Police State to give its prisoners due process.


Might I further point out that the only connection that has ever been found or alleged between Padilla and McVeigh is that one sketch, and that there can't be more than a few MILLION men in America who could also fit that sketch?

TheEgg
May 31, 2005, 03:21 PM
At least one federal judge has already given orders to the contrary, and if the feds lose their appeal(s) he'll either be charged or walk.

Maybe.

Three years late.

buzz_knox
May 31, 2005, 03:34 PM
Does anyone know if Padilla has met with anyone outside of the gov't? Has there ever been a statement from him via a third-party concerning this?

RevDisk
May 31, 2005, 04:29 PM
That was more than 45 days ago, so apparently the expected appeal was filed, but this is NOT a case of Padilla being held and everyone just going along with it. At least one federal judge has already given orders to the contrary, and if the feds lose their appeal(s) he'll either be charged or walk.

Obviously that doesn't make what the Executive has done here right, but Police States generally do not have courts with the capability and inclination to force the Police State to give its prisoners due process.

Most people prefer to see the government was one entity, rather than a collection of different entities often moving in different directions. Trying to get every agency to agree with every other agency is akin to herding cats.

I see this as a Good Thing.

Flyboy
May 31, 2005, 10:43 PM
That was more than 45 days ago, so apparently the expected appeal was filed
Or, alternatively, the Bush adminstration decided to flagrantly ignore the order of the court. See also: US v. Moussaoui, in which the DoJ was ordered to allow Moussaoui to question the witnesses against him (you know, the bit about being "confronted with the witnesses against him"), and the administration refused to allow him to do so.

I don't know if the appeal was filed or not, but it's folly to assume that just because this administration didn't let him go means that they followed the conditions required for that action.

publius
June 1, 2005, 07:24 AM
Which is more dangerous: Padilla on the streets, or a government which can imprison anyone indefinitely without charges or a trial, based on secret evidence?

Padilla was (is) a stupid thug, as far as I can tell. His problem was that he was too darn stupid to be an effective terrorist. Ignorance can be fixed, but stupid cannot. This guy is incapable of becoming a major threat. Our government, OTOH, seems quite capable to me.

Derby FALs
June 1, 2005, 08:40 AM
Which is more dangerous: Padilla on the streets, or a government which can imprison anyone indefinitely without charges or a trial, based on secret evidence?

Number two?

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