Taurus 24/7 in 45ACP: First impressions.


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Grayrider
May 28, 2005, 01:19 PM
Gang,

I am not sure this is needed as there has been some discussion of the 24/7 before, but I thought some of you might my initial impressions interesting. I picked up a 24/7 this week after noticing that it seemed to fit a set of criteria I have been looking for in a pistol lately:

1. Something about the size of a commanderish 1911, making it small enough overall for CCW but not a true compact (with their associated limitations).

2. Polymer framed for weight savings and corrosion resistance, along with a stainless slide. This gun will not be babied so I want it to resist abuse.

3. A rail for lights as I like those at night.

4. .45 ACP caliber as that is the round I trust most for SD work.

5. Double stacked so I can carry fewer mags for CCW.

6. Reliable (#1 priority actually).

7. Good sights (preferably tritium).

8. Some sort of safety beyond a trigger thingy.

9. Controls my wife could reach with her small hands.

10. Inexpensive, defined by my budget as around $300-$400. I worry a bit that in traveling with a firearm I run a greater risk of theft, or of a local magistrate deciding to keep my gun should I have to use it in self defense.

11. Good factory support should anything break under hard use.

12. Inexpensive magazines, readily available.

As you can see point 4 tends to counter points 1 and 9, ruling out many guns. I found some that were close: CZ TT45, XD45, Glock 37/38, Witness P-Carry, Kimber Polymer Pro Carry. Each of those fails on more than one of the above. For a while I thought this was more of a thought exercise, conceiving a gun that did not exist. When reading about the 24/7 I noticed its specifications met most of the above criteria. Reviews and posts seemed positive, so I decided to take a chance ordering one.
The pistol arrived yesterday and I went to my smith’s to pick it up. Both of us were pleasantly surprised by the pistol, having been unsure what to expect. I will try not to rehash much of what others have posted. First the positive observations.

1. The trigger pull is not bad at all. Much like a revolver trigger, it is quite smooth with no apparent stacking or over travel (at least on my gun). I notice the reset is not at full release, so one can stage the trigger slightly. Essentially there is a short initial take-up of no resistance, then the long smooth revolver-like draw. I would guess 7 to 8lbs, but it does not actually feel that heavy. This should be a flinch-free trigger for a beginning shooter. As such it might make a good first pistol (further aided by the low price).

2. The gun looks and feels well built. There are no ugly machining marks on the slide internally, which Taurus says is forged. The metal frame inside the receiver is solid, reminiscent of an STI. No plastic to metal contact—all the rails are metal. Of course many makers say plastic rails are acceptable.

3. I compared its size to a couple other 45s on hand. It is much smaller than a Glock 21. Shorter in length, much thinner, and the magazines are also more compact than 21 mags despite holding only 1 less round. I would say the 24/7 is closer in size to a Glock 17. Taurus has thus made a double-stack 45 that is the size of a 9mm. I find that somewhat amazing. It is roughly the same size as my Kimber CDP Pro, meeting my commanderish requirement.

4. Sights are low profile in the rear, with large dots. They are very easy to pick up, although I prefer something other than dots in the rear. I would like tritium, and as these are held on by a small screw they should be easily swapped when aftermarket night sights become available.

5. The grip angle is quite comfortable, reminiscent of a 1911 or a CZ. Both are my preferred pistols for most shooting. It points naturally, and the grip is quite small. Taurus tapered the magazine heavily at the top, much like a Sig 229 magazine. The result is they could bring the grip in considerably at the top where the web of the hand rests. Again it is much more like a 9mm than a 45. This brings me to the point of my wife being able to reach all controls and the trigger comfortably, despite her small hands. At 5’2” she is not able to handle the controls on a 1911, but loves the 45 caliber. Now I have a pistol in that caliber she can likely use. She was impressed by its handling, but said the trigger felt “funny”.

6. There is a loaded chamber indicator. I don’t feel that is necessary, but as I am a firm believer in checking and rechecking a gun before handling this adds one more check to perform. No harm in that, but it won’t replace the usual methods of verifying the loaded status of the weapon.

7. The rail locks my M3 positively. It did not lock a laser sight, but I am planning to sell that anyway. Neat for fun, but I prefer the iron sights out of habit.

8. Magazines eject positively—much like many 1911s flying out of the pistol assertively. They seem well sprung as dropping the slide with an empty magazine inserted is nearly impossible. The slide stop is pretty stiff regardless.

9. Takedown is fairly easy using the lever and a strong grip. Some may find a tool necessary to remove the takedown lever, but I do not. Lock the slide back, rotate the takedown lever downward, and pull firmly. There is a small retaining spring/wire that must be overcome to remove/insert the pin. Otherwise it is stiff but relatively easy to move.

10. The feed ramp is mirror polished. Nothing more to do there, unlike some pistols I could mention. I need to check case support for those of you who might consider a 40 S&W version of this pistol.

11. The lockup is quite tight. Perhaps it will be accurate.

12. The grip has a magazine guide integrated and the mouth of the mag well is quite wide. Loading is easily accomplished in a hurry. The guide feature is something more makers should include in casting polymer frames. I liked that on the XDs I have owned.

13. Magazines appear robust, heavily sprung, and are quite compact for holding 12 rounds of 45. Again, more like 9mm magazines than 45. Taurus had their engineers working overtime to keep this gun small.

14. The grip surface is nicely textured to imitate the rubber gripper surface of the 9mm and 40 caliber 24/7s. I have handled those pistols as well and found them more comfortable, but I consider the plastic surface on the 45 acceptable. The memory index points are an interesting feature, complementing my high grip/thumbs forward position developed shooting 1911s for 20 years.

15. The safety is where it should be (on the frame), working the way it should (down is off). Again 20 years with a 1911. It is low profile to avoid snagging, but easily worked. It is positive with a firm snap on and off. No mushy safeties here like I have found on certain CZ clones. When on, the safety locks trigger and slide.

16. All controls are very easy to reach and nicely sized.

17. It comes with two 12 round magazines. Imagine that, two magazines! I know, some makers do this some don’t. I have always found it cheap to only provide one. How about three or four? That would be innovative (thank you CZ for the four with my IPSC ST).

Now for the negatives, and they are few.

1. The trigger has a sharp edge on the bottom. It is heavily curved, coming to an edge on the bottom that is thin and bites my finger over time. I suspect I can smooth that off with a few passes of sandpaper. I would have preferred a straighter trigger if Taurus is listening. Placing the finger higher on the trigger avoids this. I suspect this is harder for me from shooting flat 1911 triggers.

2. Takedown instructions are poorly worded. It took me a few minutes and some cussing to realize that the barrel had to remain forward when reinserting the takedown pin. Fortunately my 3 year old son does not appear to have learned any new words from daddy during this exercise.

3. The guide rod is plastic. Of course this may not matter, but as many of us here know it has caused problems in other makes of pistols.

4. In fairness I should say the DAO trigger pull is not a short, crisp, 2.5-3 lbs like all us 1911 fellows expect the pull to be.

5. The sights are not adjustable. I hope it is on from the factory.

6. The slide stop is stiff even without a magazine in the gun. Perhaps this will work itself out.

7. I don’t like having the magazine base pad as part of the gripping surface. Minor issue as many new guns do this.

There has been some discussion as to whether this pistol is an enlarged Mil-pro. I reviewed the schematics in the manual of both guns and found the parts list, description, and assembly nearly identical. This is even to the point that both lists of parts used the same descriptions and part numbers, with the parts of the Mil-pro that are not on the 24/7 simply skipped in the latter’s schematic. I suspect some parts may interchange, and the 12 round 24/7 magazine might serve as an extended capacity one for Mil-pro owners.

At this point I am impressed with this relatively inexpensive pistol. After shipping, tax, and dealer transfer fees I was out the door for just under $400. I stuffed it in a Don Hume IWB holster for my G21 and it fit nicely. A couple more magazines are needed, and it will be ready for CCW use after proving itself at the range. I will reserve judgment on whether this was a good purchase until I put a few hundred rounds through it, but so far I am optimistic. It has the initial characteristics of a good shooter.

GR

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Chupacabra
May 28, 2005, 02:29 PM
Nice review GR!

A couple of questions though; How was the felt recoil? Accuracy?

I handled a 9mm 24/7 at a gunshop a few months ago and was really impressed. It would make an excellent alternative to a Glock or XD. Same mag capacity, but with a manual safety and better grip.

:cool:

ulflyer
May 28, 2005, 03:58 PM
I've owned both the Mil-Pro and 24/7 and they are worth every penny. My problem was me: getting too old and shaky to pull a DAO type trigger and get any sort of decent groups, so I sold both. If I ever decide to carry, I may well go back to a Mil-Pro. Right now, I stick to reloading mild and shooting on my own range.

Grayrider
May 28, 2005, 04:20 PM
No range time yet to report. I hope to make that part two of the review, perhaps on Monday. Until then the jury is out. It passes initial inspection, but the proof is in the shooting.

GR

Grayrider
May 30, 2005, 03:37 PM
Back from the range and couple hundred rounds with no malfunctions. It recoils briskly as one would expect given the low weight, but not too bad. I found it easy to control, although I shoot a lot of 45. At 15 yards it monotonously tore a ragged hole in the center X. That is firing single shots. The long trigger made double-taps difficult for me, being used to short SA triggers on 1911s. However, with some practice this should clear up. At this point it seems like a good purchase, serving my intended purpose. I need a couple more mags, then time to shoot it a bunch and get used to the trigger. So far so good.

GR

Snowdog
May 30, 2005, 04:00 PM
I, for one, appreciate this detailed first-hand review, Grayrider. One of the great things about THR and TFL is that all a prospective buyer has to do is use in the firearm in question as a search query and they'll find informative posts such as this excellent Taurus 24/7 review.

Personally, I've heard great things about the 24/7. The only reason why I'm thinking about going for the .40S&W instead of the .45acp is so the pistol retains the "ribber" grips. However, the molded finger-grooves on the .45acp model don't look bad at all.

Grayrider
May 30, 2005, 05:10 PM
Thank you for the kind words. I mainly did this so anyone searching for info on the 24/7 would have a good review for reference, so it is good to hear it is serving that purpose. I am also glad you mentioned 40 caliber. I pulled the barrel to check case support, and at least in 45 it is fully supported. I can see no exposed case wall. I would assume they would do the same with 40. This gun seems a bit over engineered really, so perhaps Taurus will consider a few more calibers: 10mm, 38 Super, and 357 Sig. If they are going to take on Glock, why not similarly cover a range of calibers?

:D

GR

4v50 Gary
June 18, 2005, 10:41 AM
Thanks for the review Grayrider. It's better than a gunrag. :)

Grayrider
June 18, 2005, 11:28 AM
Thank you! I was hoping to keep the information more factual and cover points shooters would care about, rather than the general gun-rag fluff. I don't even pick them up anymore they have gotten so shallow.

GR

147 Grain
August 19, 2005, 10:43 AM
Great Review!

If the 24/7 with 4" barrel is close to the size of a 9mm "Glock 17," would you say the PT-145 Millenium Pro with 3.2" barrel fits in between a 19 and 26 (3.46" barrel) or is closer to the Glock 19 (4" barrel)?

I'm now considering both models and am concerned about velocity drop-off with the compact 45.

Already have a new Ruger KP345 that is fairly thin at 1.16" with 4.2" barrel and wonder how it compares to the 24/7 or PT-145.

Thanks in advance of your advice.

Preacherman
August 19, 2005, 11:33 AM
I bought one a couple of months ago - see here (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=144370) for my comments. I agree with you that it's an unusually impressive gun for a Taurus.

147 Grain
August 19, 2005, 11:48 AM
Thanks for the link!

Now I'm a little undecided between the 24/7 and PT145 Millenium Pro. :confused:

Already have a nice Ruger KP-345PR for range work and am looking for another 45 for CCW.

http://www.galleryofguns.com/prod_images/1-145039P.jpg?px_fullquility_384564
Taurus PT-145 Millenium Pro

Price at Davidsons is $302 for a stainless PT-145.

http://www.galleryofguns.com/prod_images/1-247451-12.jpg?px_fullquility_384564
Taurus 24/7

Price at Davidsons is $442 for a stainless 24/7.

Grayrider
August 19, 2005, 01:45 PM
I had looked at the Mil Pro, but the 24/7 is not a big gun really and carries well. I am a bit funny about gun size as I tend to dress to conceal the gun rather than get a gun to fit how I dress. I have been known to lug around my P18.9 in the cooler weather, and it is a brick. I would say choose the one that fits your style of carry. As for comparing to a Ruger, I had considered that as well but the 24/7 is smaller in the hand. It holds 12 rounds and manages to be about G17/22 sized. Hard to believe until you hold one. They really got it right in terms of size.

If you get a Mil Pro please post a review. I have thought hard about dumping my Kahr for one.

GR

rblack
August 20, 2005, 06:55 PM
Great review Grayrider. I just purchased the 24/7 in 40s&w , based partly on your review of the 45. I just put two mags of my handloads thru it at my backyard range and all went well. The sights are well regulated and recoil with the rubber sleeve was mild in my opinion. I will give it a real range outing soon, but I'm very pleased with this pistol thus far.

I'm pretty much a 1911 shooter like you, but the trigger on this paticular 24/7 is very smooth and didn't seem to handicap my shooting at all. If it pans out like I think it will during a decent range session, I will probably be picking up the 45 in this gun as well. Again, thanks for a very through review.

Grayrider
August 20, 2005, 08:55 PM
Glad to assist! I was very interested in the 40 as well. Keep us posted as to its performance over time. That too would make a nice CCW package.

On a different vein, I notice that S&W has a very similar (at least in concept) pistol coming out in the M&P. That one may be worth following for anyone who likes the 24/7. No manual safety, though.

GR

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