Another Ban


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Sactown
May 26, 2005, 11:36 PM
Looks like the gungrabbers are now knifegrabbers.

British Doctors urge ban on kitchen knives (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm)

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GoRon
May 26, 2005, 11:37 PM
Thats a joke sight right? That isn't for real, couldn't be.

Just rechecked the URL, wow I am speechless!!

RevDisk
May 26, 2005, 11:41 PM
Thats a joke sight right? That isn't for real, couldn't be.

:twitch:

Go to the main BBC site. Type "knife" into the search box. See what comes up first. Decide for yourself.

P95Carry
May 26, 2005, 11:46 PM
Doctors say knives are too pointed Well - from my culinary experience a point is needed - instance filleting etc. Further to which - from a ''slashing'' POV - any knife, even short and with rounded end, can do plenty of damage.

Let's remember box cutter blades in 9/11.

So maybe ban anything and everything sharp and pointy eh - ???

''CUT'' crime - go blunt!!! :rolleyes:

I anticipated this long ago - give em time and woodworkers will be outa work thru bans on screwdrivers, planes, chisels - oh my - the possibilities are endless. :uhoh: :mad:

Oh - forgot spoons Steve!!!

sm
May 26, 2005, 11:46 PM
...how can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat? -Pink Floyd

Well hell at this rate you won't. No knife to cut the meat, next spoons will be banned so that means no pudding - huh?

Arc-Lite
May 26, 2005, 11:50 PM
sm...with scissors, you cut your meat with scissors... cool!!

2nd Amendment
May 26, 2005, 11:50 PM
HA! Now that's funnEE! There for a sec I thought maybe you were serious...uh... :confused: :banghead:

Justin
May 26, 2005, 11:52 PM
The sheer lunacy of Airstrip One's self-appointed protectors never ceases to amaze.

P95Carry
May 26, 2005, 11:52 PM
Scissors - they gotta be banned too - sorry dressmakers - you are shafted.

In truth I seem to remember a good many murders carried out with sharp (dirty word - ''pointy'' ) scissors over the years. yep - they gotta go!

cslinger
May 26, 2005, 11:56 PM
Plastic sporks are the answer obviously. Course you could poke your eye out. Hmmmmm maybe the government could just mandate that food be sold in conveniently cut pieces.

DonNikmare
May 26, 2005, 11:57 PM
You'll just have to take your meat and all else you want cut to your licensed local cutting station. :rolleyes:

No buildings higher than 5' are allowed. Too many people jumping or being murdered by being thrown over.

No unpadded cars, outside and inside. Speed limits no more than 15 miles per hour.

Bathtubs to be filled no more than 6''. 12'' levels are allowed for fat people. The bathtub water level inspectors will make unexpected visits to check your water and fat levels.

No fireplaces.

No garages. They facilitate too many suicides.

No exposed electrical cables, ropes, etc. longer than 3'. Too many suicides. Anything longer and it has to be breaktested to tear at 10 pounds.

Soaps are illegal in bathtubs or showers. Too many fatal slips and falls. Just scrub with an abrasive spunge.

Arc-Lite
May 26, 2005, 11:59 PM
hmmm I wonder if this idea is being directed by the mad dentists of the UK.. last time there, it looked to me, like there was a LARGE need, for the locals to cut their meat into little easy to chew bites..no offense.

Poplin
May 27, 2005, 12:01 AM
From the current British Medical Journal:

Reducing Knife Crime (http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/reprint/330/7502/1221)

Not a joke!

merged this with already ongoing thread on the subject - P95Carry

fedlaw
May 27, 2005, 12:02 AM
The Brits are a funny people, even my Irish grandparents thought so. I think they laughed all the way to the boat.

God Bless America

beerslurpy
May 27, 2005, 12:06 AM
Doctors say knives are too pointed

God, the British have become such whusses.

This truly makes me ashamed of my heritage.

Arc-Lite
May 27, 2005, 12:10 AM
The Brits are good people, who are beside us, in many of our adventures..... they just might work to hard at being civilized...in this dog pound world.

davec
May 27, 2005, 12:16 AM
"Doctors call for Kitchen Knife Ban" is a bit different from "Britan to ban Kitchen Knives"

P95Carry
May 27, 2005, 12:21 AM
"Doctors call for Kitchen Knife Ban" is a bit different from "Britan to ban Kitchen Knives" Still demonstrates a certain psychology tho - like Docs here wanting guns banned! :uhoh:

walking arsenal
May 27, 2005, 12:23 AM
WOW! just..............wow.

AF_INT1N0
May 27, 2005, 12:26 AM
Ah yes New Europe, reminding you why your ancestors left the old Europe..

wasrjoe
May 27, 2005, 12:30 AM
you can't be effing serious

Standing Wolf
May 27, 2005, 12:45 AM
What a sorry, despicable excuse for a nation!

Perhaps, at great sacrifice to ourselves, we ought to send that Kerry creature, Mrs. Snopes Clinton, McCain, and that pathetic little Voinovich over there to straighten things out for the English.

gc70
May 27, 2005, 01:05 AM
Ban pointy knives? The Brits would be better served by banning pointy-headed doctors who dream up wacky ideas like banning pointy knives.

MechAg94
May 27, 2005, 01:07 AM
What about ice picks?

yorec
May 27, 2005, 01:09 AM
Heh - with that sort of intelligence going for 'em, when they ban forks (cause thier pointy too) and spoons (cause crooks took to using them instead, because they "hurt more") maybe they'll all starve to death over there... :rolleyes:

jefnvk
May 27, 2005, 01:26 AM
I'm quite astounded. At first, I thought I thought that was seriosuly a joke. It looks like someone mirrored a gun control piece, but dang.

I am quite interested to know. What happens when everything is banned, and crimes are still comitted. Will people then be forced to realize that people are the problem, not the tool?

Third_Rail
May 27, 2005, 01:30 AM
Nope, it's hands and feet. Those need to be banned too. :neener:

PromptCritical
May 27, 2005, 01:49 AM
Y'know? I just had a great idea.

There are too many rapes committed. In the vast majority of rapes a certain male organ is required equipment. Here's the idea: All males will be made impotent. If a male wants to engage in a sexual act, he must apply for permission and go through a yet to be determined waiting period. Once that is done, he is administered a single Viagra. In the event of heterosexual contact, he will be given a Planned Parenthood pamphlet, too.

In the interests of public health, and to relieve taxpayer funded healthcare costs, part of the application process would include a STD test.

Think about it. A rape is reported, all you have to do is check the DNA sample retained for records from the application exam, and figure out who did it.

An anciliary benefit would be the ease of verifying genetic compatibility in the rare event of sex for procreation.

2nd Amendment
May 27, 2005, 02:01 AM
I'm rather worried you're not the first person to think of that...

Jeff
May 27, 2005, 02:10 AM
Ban death.

Crosshair
May 27, 2005, 02:27 AM
Mabee this is the reson the Romans gave up on England. Idiots like this. Oh well, we will probably be able to take over england in 20 years with a rusty spoon.

sm
May 27, 2005, 02:35 AM
I am quite interested to know. What happens when everything is banned, and crimes are still comitted. Will people then be forced to realize that people are the problem, not the tool?
Same thought crossed my mind. I think this is the part when the State offically starts the Indoctrinations

Say hello the new boss - same as the old boss...

Well if anyone has invented a pill folks take instead of food - they are gonna get rich quick - for a short time anyway.

I mean no utensils, teeth will be banned eventually...Citizen - here is your kidney pie pill - now stand up straight while you wait your turn to drink from the State water fountain...

Them water glasses are just w-a-y to dangerous ya know?

longeyes
May 27, 2005, 02:38 AM
I think all Brits should be declawed and defanged. Only way to reduce biting and scratching crimes.

I expect the National British Dental Board to insist that all Britons have their teeth yanked and stored at the local constabulary until mealtimes.

Fingernails have to go too.

Michael Savage had it right: "Only the soccer hooligan can save Britain."

longeyes
May 27, 2005, 02:43 AM
Absurd, yes. But there is really something infinitely sad about all this...

Feels like PTSD from WW II.

What else could motivate such imponderable fear of What's Inside?

Good folks the Brits, but what the hell are they doing to themselves?

DRZinn
May 27, 2005, 02:46 AM
Will the idiocy never cease?

kannonfyre
May 27, 2005, 03:33 AM
:cuss: Turning one's population into a bunch of wusses just makes me wanna :cuss: and :banghead: .

Jeff
May 27, 2005, 03:47 AM
I can do everything I need to do in the kitchen without a pointy point.

If I need a point, I will use a small-- that is, shortened-- knife with a pointy point to complete the job.

A knife that is both pointy and long is unnecessary. In fact, it is dangerous.

The definition of long is anything that can reach the vital organs in the event of a pointy point knife assault.

Therefore, all our knives should be less than this length.

Oh dear, what will happen when the ministry finds out that a slash can be as lethal as a stab?

davec
May 27, 2005, 03:50 AM
This is the mindset of British Parliament...

From a discussion in the House of Commons on the merits of the Amendment to the Householder Protection Bill. (Feb 2005)

Mr. Pound: My hon. Friend makes a good point. The person who would have benefited most from this Bill is Kenneth Noye. He was a convicted gangster who killed a police officer who happened to be on Mr. Noye's property without Mr. Noye's permission. Mr. Noye said in court that he had a reasonable suspicion that this figure coming through the shrubbery in his garden was going to do him harm, so he killed him. Kenneth Noye could be prayed in aid in support of this Bill just as much as Brendan Fearon could. Brendan Fearon was mentioned earlier, as was Fred Barras, the 16-year-old boy killed by Tony Martin.

Every politician says that hard cases make bad law, and I understand that the case of Tony Martin is the most extreme case in many ways. However, we cannot avoid the fact that many people out there will see this

Bill not as the Kenneth Noye law but as the Tony Martin law. We have a responsibility to place on record that Tony Martin killed a 16-year-old boy with an illegally held pump-action shotgun. I said earlier that we were talking not about legal niceties and trivialities but about life and death. Fred Barras will never have the opportunity to mend his ways or to become a worthwhile contributing citizen of this country. He will never have the opportunity of redemption, because he died at the age of 16. I hold no brief for those who break into other people's homes, but I cannot, with anything other than great sadness, look at a situation in which a 16-year-old boy in bad company is shot once and then again, in the back, as he flees the home of Tony Martin.

I think that we have to look in our hearts and ask, "Was that 16-year-old boy so incapable of redemption that he deserved death?" I suggest that he did not deserve death, and that any implication in the Bill that anybody who breaks into someone's home deserves death would be a step too far—one that leads us into very dangerous waters. (emphasis mine). -- Steven Pound, MP Earling North

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200405/cmhansrd/cm050204/debtext/50204-15.htm

The bill in question was intended to allow home owners more latitude in tackling burglars, by providing that they will not be guilty of any offence unless they have used grossly disproportionate force. It would apply to England and Wales. As far as I know, the Bill is still in Standing Committee and has not been voted on.

Details on the Tony Martin case: http://www.guardian.co.uk/martin/0,2759,214318,00.html

Cliff notes: in 1999 a rural farmer shot and killed a 16 year old boy by the name of Fred Barras in the process of breaking into his house, and injured his 29 year old accomplice.

Police charged Martin with the murder of Barras and attempted murder of the accomplice, Brendan Fearon. Martin was convicted of murder in April of 2000 and sentenced to life in prison. After a long drama with accusations of jury tampering and a lengthy appeals process and replaced council, Martin got his sentence reduced to manslaughter and 3 years imprisonment. He was released in July 2003 from Prison. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/norfolk/3087003.stm

That my friends, is the attitude that holds sway in Merry old England. The belief that human life is paramount, and that there is almost no justification what-so-ever for it to be taken, by ANYONE, under almost any circumstance.

That belief gives no credence to the right of the homeowner to be secure from intruders, and by action and implementation of the law holds that time and time and time again in England NO property or violation of ones home is justification for a deadly assault on an individual.

And, for the most part, they think our views on such things are backwards, hopelessly outdated and unsophisticated, and make our society one that borders on barbarity.

I knew there was a reason people left when they had a chance.

Iain
May 27, 2005, 04:18 AM
This is some of our doctor's.

It is far from being govt policy.

We have enough 'celebrity chefs' knocking around to raise a small army to march on Westminster should this ban ever turn serious.

davec- Tony has had his case dragged through THR's courts many times. Suffice to say that your 'cliff notes' wouldn't get the student a grade C at GCSE. Things like shooting the 16 year old in the back, lying to the police about what happened etc were missed out.

Sindawe
May 27, 2005, 04:19 AM
News from Briton, August 2014... Responding to an overwhelming outcry from the populace to DO SOMETHING about the rising rate of machine gun attacks, firebombings and random immoliation of school boys, Parliament today passed the proposal presented by Lord Foxhill to ban pointy sticks. In order to remove the means of manufacturing such weapons of mass destruction, all trees and woody shrubs in the Kingdom will be cut down and burned.

Pawcatch
May 27, 2005, 04:51 AM
A team from West Middlesex University Hospital said violent crime is on the increase-and kitchen knives are used in as many as half of all stabbings.

Okay, a team a doctors from a University proposes a law and it's Britain to ban kitchen knives .Where in this article does it mention majority public support or Parliament calling for a ban on long,pointed kitchen knives?

The Home Office is looking for ways to reduce knife crime.

So then these doctors suggest a law banning the sale of long,pointed kitchen knives,but the Home Office says they already have laws restricting carrying and possession of most knives.
This does not strike me as support for a ban.

Home Office spokesperson said there were already extensive restrictions in place to control the sale and possession of knives.

This is what many gun owners in some countries say about their gun laws,but the British Home Office is saying it about their current knife laws.
Because of this I will hold off on condemnations of the British in general.
We need to remember that we have some goofy doctors too.

lunaslide
May 27, 2005, 05:30 AM
And they laugh at us when we talk about the establishment of Nerf World...

The Brits are a funny people, even my Irish grandparents thought so. I think they laughed all the way to the boat.

I doubt that was laughing :(


Y'know? I just had a great idea.

There are too many rapes committed. In the vast majority of rapes a certain male organ is required equipment. Here's the idea: All males will be made impotent. If a male wants to engage in a sexual act, he must apply for permission and go through a yet to be determined waiting period. Once that is done, he is administered a single Viagra. In the event of heterosexual contact, he will be given a Planned Parenthood pamphlet, too.

In the interests of public health, and to relieve taxpayer funded healthcare costs, part of the application process would include a STD test.

Think about it. A rape is reported, all you have to do is check the DNA sample retained for records from the application exam, and figure out who did it.

An anciliary benefit would be the ease of verifying genetic compatibility in the rare event of sex for procreation.

Oh, so you've been to Washington state!

If you don't know what I'm talking about, here is an example. A man may NOT get a vasectomy if he is married without permission from his wife, but a wife may get an abortion without even informing her husband. And, by the way, you don't have to officially get married to be considered "married." Google search for "meretricious relationship" and be afraid.

mete
May 27, 2005, 06:49 AM
You have no knowledge of history!!!.Why is it that the table knives have no point ? That's because one of the kings [french I think] wanted to stop the knife fights at the table [probably with drunks] so he banned pointed knives -so todays table knives have rounded tips !! A far as the chef stating that the point on a chef's knive isn't necessary , I'll keep the point on mine.

ksnecktieman
May 27, 2005, 07:13 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/27/science/27knife.html?th&emc=th

British Medical Experts Campaign for Long, Pointy Knife Control



By JOHN SCHWARTZ
Published: May 27, 2005
Warning: Long, pointy knives may be hazardous to your health.

The authors of an editorial in the latest issue of the British Medical Journal have called for knife reform. The editorial, "Reducing knife crime: We need to ban the sale of long, pointed kitchen knives," notes that the knives are being used to stab people as well as roasts and the odd tin of Spam.

Skip to next paragraph

David Corio for The New York Times
Manufacturers are urged to redesign kitchen knives with rounded tips.


Full Text of the Editorial (BMJ.com) The authors of the essay - Drs. Emma Hern, Will Glazebrook and Mike Beckett of the West Middlesex University Hospital in London - called for laws requiring knife manufacturers to redesign their wares with rounded, blunt tips.

The researchers noted that the rate of violent crime in Britain rose nearly 18 percent from 2003 to 2004, and that in the first two weeks of 2005, 15 killings and 16 nonfatal attacks involved stabbings. In an unusual move for a scholarly work, the researchers cited a January headline from The Daily Express, a London tabloid: "Britain is in the grip of knives terror - third of murder victims are now stabbed to death."

Khornet
May 27, 2005, 07:28 AM
I kid you not. We used to joke abouth how this was the logical end of British gun control thinking. Not a joke after all:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm

Khornet
May 27, 2005, 07:32 AM
I posted the same thing in General.
No, it's not a joke. I'm sorry to say that my profession has lost all sense of proportion, and has forgotten that life entails risk. We all take a chance with every breath. The logical extension of welfare-state thought is that there must be no risks in life.

'course, the only way to keep your kids from ever falling down and getting hurt is to NEVER LET THEM STAND ON THEIR OWN TWO FEET.

AechKay
May 27, 2005, 07:47 AM
It should be a joke. I can do as much damage with a ballpoint pen. Why don't we ban them? Oh wait...they're run by corporations. America has turned into a country of whores, selling ourselves out. I hate the free market economy sometimes. IE: The FDA is owned by drug companies. The FDA is suposed to keep bad drugs away from us, yet they're owned by drug companies. *sighs*

Kharn
May 27, 2005, 08:07 AM
With every passing week, I think news reports on new laws in Britain must be written more and more by The Onion.

The article from Khornet's post (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm)
A spokesperson for the Association of Chief Police Officers said: "ACPO supports any move to reduce the number of knife related incidents, however, it is important to consider the practicalities of enforcing such changes." Well, at least that guy seems semi-sane...

Kharn

Andrew Rothman
May 27, 2005, 08:11 AM
I kept thinking, "This has to be the Onion!" But, no, it really was the BBC.

shu
May 27, 2005, 09:00 AM
just saw this on DRUDGE, and came here and GT to check comments.

as a practical matter in the kitchen, yes there are few if any jobs which require both a sharp point and length at the same time. BUT -
- chopping (onions, carrots, celery) is presently done by pivoting a long knife on a sharp point. alternatives would be using a broader, cleaver-like, knife (heavier) or a round ended knife (pivoting along a line rather than on a point). either solution would entail re-learning of a physical skill, like learning to drive on the other side of the road.
- a sequence of jobs (cutting open, trimming, and de-seeding a watermalon) now done with a single long pointy knife would require alternating between two knives, long blunt and short pointy, increasing the time required for the sequence.

thus the government response to criminal activity is to legislate a penalty upon all law abiding citizens.

..but anyone who has gone through an airline departure gate recently knows that already..

El Tejon
May 27, 2005, 09:09 AM
Matt, same thing sometimes. :D

What the UK needs is hand control. Do you realize how many hands are used in crimes? Cut them off at birth and live a utopia!

RTFM
May 27, 2005, 09:34 AM
So my take is that kitchen chefs are making public policy in the UK.... :neener:

[checks calender]Nope not April 1st[/checks calender]

Boats
May 27, 2005, 09:39 AM
Chopping off hands won't work because I have seen so.

Mark Speckman is the head football coach at Willamette University in Salem, Oregon. He was born without hands. He can play tennis, raquetball, baseball, and other sports you would think he couldn't. He was a linebacker in college and was even once called for illegal use of hands, when of course that would be impossible.

I am fairly certain that if he wanted or needed to, he could end someone's life wielding a knife.

He's also given the only motivational speech I have ever attended that was worth a damn.

Mark Speckman bio (http://www.hitrunscore.com/mark-speckman-biography.html)

CAPTAIN MIKE
May 27, 2005, 09:39 AM
Warning - I have a Kitchmaid Blender ---- and I'm Not Afraid to USE It !! :eek:

Zedicus
May 27, 2005, 09:45 AM
2 news channels this afternoon claimed that the proposal to ban Kitchen Knives is being supported by a majority in the parlament.... :banghead:

Silver Bullet
May 27, 2005, 09:52 AM
I read somewhere that one of the overlords in China banned all metal utinsels because they could be used as weapons; and that is the reason the serfs used (and use) wooden chopsticks.

I don’t see a problem here: the limeys should be able to adapt chopsticks to eating fish and chips.

horge
May 27, 2005, 09:53 AM
:barf:

...and when criminals move away from stabbing on to slashing,
they'll ask manufacturers to make knives with a dull edge?
What'll they ban when thugs punch and kick their victims?

Oooh, ooohhh.... let's not forget hurtful language, while we're at it.

:scrutiny:

Pawcatch
May 27, 2005, 09:54 AM
You have no knowledge of history!!!
I don't know that is directed to,but I'll respond.

Mete, it was Louis the XIV who mandated rounded point knives.
Of course,you can now buy pointed knives in France now,but France still has strict knife carry laws that date back to WWII.
In the 19th century U.S. merchant sailors were not allowed to carry a fixed blade or pointed folder at sea,so sheepsfoot knives became popular among sailors and still are today.
At one time China required that the village knife be chained to a rock.
Both of these laws are no more now.

Henry Bowman
May 27, 2005, 10:03 AM
What do you NEED a knife like that for?

Amazing.

cobb
May 27, 2005, 10:05 AM
I like these quotes -

The researchers say legislation to ban the sale of long pointed knives would be a key step in the fight against violent crime.
And
"We suggest that banning the sale of long pointed knives is a sensible and practical measure that would have this effect."
Now where have we all heard something very similiar to these???????? :rolleyes:

*

Pawcatch
May 27, 2005, 10:07 AM
2 news channels this afternoon claimed that the proposal to ban kitchen knives is being supported by a majority in the parlament

We'll have to see what happens,but I stand corrected if that is the case.We'll also have to see if the law will passed in its current form.
This will undoubtedly make santoku style knives popular if it does pass.

Rabid Rabbit
May 27, 2005, 10:23 AM
This is just to stupid to even bother with explaining why 24 out of 27 of my kitchen knives have points instead of rounded or cut off tips..... As to the British chefs I'd like to know who the question was posed and would the chefs give the same answer if the question was can you do your job with blades less then 6 inches long. The answer of course is yes but there is a reason why I use my 12in chef blade instead of a 5.5in boning knife when I'm chopping, its just plain easier

dev_null
May 27, 2005, 10:25 AM
"What am I supposed to use? Harsh Language?" - Aliens

VTKFJoe
May 27, 2005, 10:29 AM
Next it will be bricks, bottles, chains, cricket bats. One of these days they are going to figure out how to ban the right objects.

Yeah, and what chefs did they talk too? In my kitchen we have lots of knives, some with points some not - all usefull, all needed.

Rebar
May 27, 2005, 10:29 AM
duplicate threads:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=140466
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=140495

XLMiguel
May 27, 2005, 10:31 AM
Yeah, buddy, gotta ban them kitchen knives. We just had an incident at Montgomery Mall in Betheesda where some whacky woman one day out of jail stabbed two women at random in a Nordrtoms with a pair of butcher's knives taped together.

After all, only butchers are 'professional enough' to handle butcher's knives.

Knife control NOW!!

:evil:

MechAg94
May 27, 2005, 10:32 AM
We always ask gun-grabber types where it ends? I think this is our answer. It doesn't end.

Sean Smith
May 27, 2005, 10:41 AM
Wow. Just, wow.

Molon Labe
May 27, 2005, 10:42 AM
I hope they ban knives. Seriously.

This experiment of transforming a (once) free country into a slave state must come to completion.

rick_reno
May 27, 2005, 10:45 AM
Oh no – if they take away their knives, how will the British make that slop they pass off for FOOD.

iapetus
May 27, 2005, 10:52 AM
I just set a letter to the BMJ. It hasn't appeared on their website yet, but the other responses that have been posted are equally critical (and rather shorter). http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/eletters/330/7502/1221


I am writing in response after seeing an article about this editorial on the BBC news website.

When I was first alerted to this idea, my first thought was it must be a spoof. The notion that anyone, let alone people as educated as doctors, would consider banning (types of) kitchen knives to be either justified or practicable seems incredible. Various criticisms / points to consider (in no particular order):

• Contrary to the implication of the editorial, long pointed knives are useful. I use them when preparing food. True, I could use a different design, but often a large knife with a point is simply the most effective tool for the job.

• But even if they were not “needed”, why should people not be allowed to use them if they so wish? This is (supposedly) a free country. Surely people should not have to prove a “need” in order to be “allowed” to do anything. Rather, the government should have to prove a need to ban something. And I would insist that such a ban is neither “needed”, justified, nor practical.

• If a criminal or violent person wishes to cause harm, then there are many, many “weapons” they could use. Bricks. Bottles. Baseball bats. Hammers. Chisels. Frying pans. No laws can remove all potential weapons, and violent criminals by their very nature will tend to break or circumvent laws. And even if all such “weapons” were somehow removed from the world, death or serious injury can still easily be inflicted with fists or feet. (Should the possession of steel-toe-capped boots be prohibited except for licensed builders?)

• On the other hand, kitchen knives, and any other improvised (or even genuine) weapon have no mind of their own. Without a criminal or violent person to wield them, they are harmless. They are harmless when sitting in a kitchen draw. And they are harmless when held or used by the overwhelming majority of the people. The vast majority of the owners of kitchen knives are of no danger to anyone, and will not be made any less dangerous by the removal of (some of) their knives.

• Further more, banning and removing these knives will require enforcement: if someone chooses to ignore the ban, then home searches, arrests, the potential threat (or actual use) of force by the arresting officers, fines, imprisonment, etc. All of which are harmful to the arrestee, and their family, and out of all proportion the “danger” that they pose to the public. Not to mention the waste of police and court time and resources that could be spent on pursuing those who are an actual danger to the public.



The original article in the journal mentioned that "a knife with a short blade such as a craft knife may cause a dramatic superficial wound but is unlikely to reach deep structures and cause death", but I resisted the urge to say that such weapons can "bring down commercial airliners".


By the way, did you know the opposing front benches in the House of Commons are two sword-lengths apart, to stop MPs from stabbing each other.

GhostRider66
May 27, 2005, 11:54 AM
(Should the possession of steel-toe-capped boots be prohibited except for licensed builders?)

Oh, now you've gone and given them another idea! When will you ever learn? :D

Mr. X
May 27, 2005, 01:06 PM
Well - from my culinary experience a point is needed - instance filleting etc. Further to which - from a ''slashing'' POV - any knife, even short and with rounded end, can do plenty of damage.

That' okay, just allow pointy knives for trained and licensed chefs. :rolleyes:

Iain
May 27, 2005, 01:14 PM
Where is the link to this proposed law people?

Have doctors in the US ever proposed bans on guns? Did their proposal make law?

P95Carry
May 27, 2005, 01:25 PM
Have doctors in the US ever proposed bans on guns? Did their proposal make law? Hi Iain .... Not so much proposal per se but - there is a common tendency for Docs to ask patients if they own guns - and seemingly many doctors are anti. Nothing into law at all but - from my perspective, as a group - I feel they sure would like to see a ban.

That's as far as it goes right now.

Iain
May 27, 2005, 01:48 PM
Right - and these doctors here have come out with an idea, there is no law, no bill, and I've not heard from any support from MP's.

P95Carry
May 27, 2005, 01:52 PM
I think Iain the feeling is that tho maybe no actual end result - this is just typical of more ''ban this, ban that'' - the cries from anti's in so many directions just seem to get louder and more insistent!

The concern is maybe that with enough of this - possibly (more) new laws will be passed. Sort of ''lobbying'' effect.

Iain
May 27, 2005, 01:59 PM
I don't disagree, just felt it needed pointing out that this is nothing but an editorial in a magazine, albeit a doctor's magazine.

Checkman
May 27, 2005, 02:00 PM
I keep hearing alot about how Europe will replace us as the leader of the free world. If this is an example of European thinking (and much of Europe is Socialist isn't it?) then I have a hard time seeing how the European Union is going to be able to muster up the will power to do the dirty and bloody things that a leader sometimes has to do. This world lives by the law of the jungle. I wonder if England understands that. I mean look at all the trouble we have with our own "enlightened" citizens. One can be too civilized.

horge
May 27, 2005, 03:16 PM
"What am I supposed to use? Harsh Language?" - Han Solo

Actually, I believe that was Vasquez, paraphrased, in 'Aliens'. ;)

ksnecktieman
May 27, 2005, 05:58 PM
80 responses here so far. Yes Ian, we think it is foolish, and probably will never be proposed as a law. What is so silly, is that it would even be spoken. Out of the 80 responders here, on this thread, I think we could create a new law for them, and stop all knife killings in Britain,,, AND probably be unanimous in our vote. LIKE this, maybe? "Issue every citizen a pistol of .32 caliber or larger, send them to a safety class of ten hours, and mandate that they carry it all the time."

javafiend
May 28, 2005, 12:28 AM
No honest person could possibly need one.

dustind
May 28, 2005, 01:13 AM
the Home Office says they already have laws restricting carrying and possession of most knives. They are out of their :cuss: Minds! I am not even going to legitimize their proposal by responding to it. The entire idea of "knife control" is proof enough that they are crazy. Edit: I am willing to debate knife control, but I will not go as far as they do down to specific features. The entire premiss of knife features being relevant is beneath me.Oooh, ooohhh.... let's not forget hurtful language, while we're at it. They have already banned assault language. I am not kidding.

Britain is nothing more than a laughing stock to the civilized world. No offense intended to any of it's residents.

Even if they do not try and actually pass such a ban. The fact that the idea was taken seriously is proof enough of my point.

peacefuljeffrey
May 28, 2005, 02:26 AM
"Doctors call for Kitchen Knife Ban" is a bit different from "Britan to ban Kitchen Knives"

What, you think it's not going to follow that now that it's been suggested, they'll actually DO it?

Place your bets.

My money is on an earnest attempt to ban pointed knives in England. They already can't have lock-blades. Why is this hard to imagine actually happening?

Now, as far as keeping it limited to SHORT pointed blades, I have a Spyderco CoPilot that I am CERTAIN could be used to inflict lethal wounds to the throat. And its blade is only about 1.5 inches or so.

And, um, let's say they not only banned but also managed to CONFISCATE ALL KNIVES in England. Some drunk dude couldn't then murder his wife in a fit of rage using a HAMMER? Will they ban hammers once the knives are gone?

And just what do they plan to do about the untold MILLIONS of pointed kitchen knives around the country in private hands?

"Buybacks?"
Door-to-door confiscatory police searches? (How hard would it be to keep a few knives hidden? The police are really going to search every single house good and hard, including sheds, attics, basements...?)

Still, I wouldn't put it past the assheaded Brits these days. Such moronia coming out of that place in recent decades. The last good thing to come out of the U.K., I fear, was Monty Python's Flying Circus, and they haven't made that since the '70s... :rolleyes:

-Jeffrey

Pawcatch
May 28, 2005, 09:52 AM
They already can't have lock-blades.

Wrong!!!UK laws states that you can't carry a locking knife without good reason,but it's legal to own and buy them.

Here's a link to current law and a UK co. that sells locking folders.
www.baconsdozen.co.uk

DRZinn
May 28, 2005, 10:48 AM
And just what do they plan to do about the untold MILLIONS of pointed kitchen knives around the country in private hands?..."Buybacks?" Door-to-door confiscatory police searches? "After they've been illegal for a few decades, and in British society something no decent person should want to own, then maybe other measures. They turn up the heat slowly. Same concept as if today's gun control laws had been sprung on a 1930s populace.

roo_ster
May 28, 2005, 11:23 AM
Object lesson, folks. This is the culture that used to rule the waves and on which the sun never set.

Were they defeated by some unstoppable juggernaut of an outside enemy? No, they managed to defeat themselves out of an empire and neuter their culture. It was the self-haters, the enemies within, and those in positions of influence without the spine to stand up to them.

I mourn for the lost Great Britain. I guess we'll have to get used to the "Lesser and Ever-Shrinking" Britain.

If you don't think the US can/is walking down that read, you are
delusional.

Art Eatman
May 28, 2005, 01:02 PM
Well, jfruser, not quite right. The empire collapsed due to two economic reasons: First, the rising cost of projecting military power. Second, the cost of the empire was greater than the profits from it.

It really doesn't matter what you want to do, whether an individual or a country, if you're too poor to afford it.

Art

Iain
May 28, 2005, 01:05 PM
I'll add a third, esp true in the case of India - the argument for keeping other people's countries was lost. Gandhi won, Churchill cried.

G36-UK
May 28, 2005, 01:18 PM
Actually, I believe that was Vasquez, paraphrased, in 'Aliens'.

Close, mate. It was Frost.

I'll admit our laws are getting a bit stupid. I won't say they're crap, but our best "banning object" laws were fished straight from the khazi.

I hear next law is something called the Millennium Education Reform Act. That ought to be fun. ;)

kokapelli
May 28, 2005, 06:59 PM
This is unbelievable! Now they want to ban kitchen knives in he UK! Here is the article. (http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=579102005)

I suppose they will eventually try and ban rocks too!

joab
May 28, 2005, 07:16 PM
Accident and emergency medics claim the knives serve no useful purpose in the kitchen Do they also poll chefs to see what equipment is necessary in ORsInternal organs can be heavily damaged, causing serious injury or death. The doctors said long knives with blunt ends - such as bread knives - would do far less damage. So does that mean that meat cleavers should pose no threat

Things just keep getting stupider and stupider

Coronach
May 28, 2005, 07:37 PM
I'm going to move this to L&P.

Mike

Taurus 66
May 28, 2005, 09:45 PM
Why bring england's problems here to America?! they're a lost cause! They chose their course of post WW2 government a long time ago and knew where it would take them. First they ban guns; then ban knives; soon they will outlaw baseball bats so nobody can play baseball.

"Whiffle bats may leave unsightly marks, and we in england afterall don't want our men bruised, cut, or scraped ... so we'll outlaw whiffles next. After that is the next step - pens and pencils. These too we know to be "very dangerous weapons" - capable of causing death if placed in the wrong hands."

Ironworker
May 28, 2005, 09:55 PM
I wonder if any of these "doctors" saw the move version of "I, Robot". They probably believed the Will Smith character to have been the villain for having destroyed the benevolent tyranny of the Computer.

(20 point to the first person who make a Paranoia refrence.)

Pawcatch
May 28, 2005, 09:59 PM
Again,I wondering why this was posted again?Different article,same story.
We should also remember that this was a team of doctors fromn Middlesex that proposed this.The Home Office didn't even jump at supporting this.

Dmack_901
May 28, 2005, 10:28 PM
lol, ha ha. ;) I hope no one believes that the story is true. I mean, the Brits are stupid, but I can't believe they'd do that.Latest figures from the Scottish Executive show that in 2003, 55 of 108 homicide victims were stabbed by a sharp instrument - often a kitchen knife. :neener: So 53 people were stabbed to death with dull instruments like basketballs?

BB62
May 31, 2005, 12:48 PM
You know, for far too long I have joined those attempting to water down gun laws in the United States. I have now realized that we here in the US ought to go further than we have; to join our friends in the world community in reducing unnecessary violence.

We have a good start in places like Washington, DC , where the Second Amendment, part of the Bill of Rights (which entirely applies to the rights of **individuals**) is just as worthless as a baseball bat in a rugby match. But places like Australia and Great Britian are the places we really need to be emulating. For instance, in Great Britain, where private ownership of firearms (or even replicas) is basically forbidden, and individual rights are laughable - very FEW people have guns. What a paradise!! Rather than all those guns "on the street", only three (count 'em!) groups have guns now - 1) the police, 2) the military, and 3) hardened criminals who appreciate easy prey. The Socialists and Communists are happy too. Isn't that great?

AND, there in Great Britain, unlike our Founders, they understand that the rights our forefathers enshrined in the Bill of Rights are simply relics of a bygone era! My eyes have been opened!!

Now, in a common sense move to further reduce violence, proposals are being discussed to reduce injuries and deaths from POINTY KITCHEN KNIVES. Man, why didn't I think of it? Peace, love, and no pointy kitchen knives! Just like guns, knives are designed for imparting violence - in the matter at hand, to slice and dice. Horrific!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm

These people really have got it together. Check out some of the things the article says: "Doctors say knives are too pointed" and "The researchers said there was no reason for long pointed knives to be publicly available at all." These people are sharp! (certainly no pun intended)

Just like firearms, ownership of such dangerous implements needs to be limited to those who can demonstrate a need, and take annual mandatory safety training. After all, it's for the children!

Now, just to demostrate my commitment to peace and love, I propose that we here in the US should ban baseball bat ownership, or at minimum, make padding mandatory on each bat. After all, baseball bats are designed to crush round objects, like skulls, aren't they?

Yours truly,
BB62
Foundation for Peace, Love, and Common Sense Societal Laws

Iain
May 31, 2005, 01:11 PM
I mean, the Brits are stupid

And Americans are fat.

iapetus
June 1, 2005, 07:25 AM
Just for the record, check the responses to the article on the BMJ website:
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/eletters/330/7502/1221#108353

Almost exclusively "What sort of moronic idea is this?"

Note in particular the response by one British doctor (Ravi A Ramaswami, Consultant Occupational Physician, Gosport, Hampshire):

The true danger is that articles such as this, published in a reputable journal such as the BMJ, enhance the public image of some doctors being out of touch with reality and seeking to impose a 'nanny state' and may pander to the desire of polititians to attempt to solve the problems of society by banning something (one only has to remember that handgun crime in the UK has risen substantially since handguns were banned from legal private ownership). There must be limits to the extent of state intrusion - citizens must take responsibilty for their own actions.

JJpdxpinkpistols
June 1, 2005, 08:44 PM
sorry...but they seem to be going a bit "daft":

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/4534903.stm

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=24&art_id=qw1117541700377B216

The article on this that ran in the oregonian had the following lovely quote:
"If there were youth clubs and places for them to go, we wouldn't be having this conversation," said her friend, Sandra Jackson.

Unless my memory is bad, most of the youth clubs were closed in the 80's due to fears of increasing violence among youth, especially in london.

Lessee. Can have guns (me), knives (me) or hoodies (the criminal element that is my 45 year old mother-of-two double heart attack surviving wife!) Sounds pretty safe, right?

http://www.techcentralstation.com/012003M.html

hmmm...back to the drawing board!

Now, in the interest of cultural sensitivity, we are not exactly sane either:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/index.php?feed=Quirks&article=UPI-1-20050406-14532900-bc-us-cheerleaders.xml

http://www.hoboes.com/html/Politics/Firearms/miller.html

I need a drink. and I don't drink.

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