Mossberg 590 question


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Balog
May 31, 2005, 01:21 AM
I've always thought the Mossie 590 is one of the best combat/self-defense shotties ever. I like the safety, very sturdy, pretty common, good capacity, can mount a bayonet :) etc. However, compared with the older Ithaca M37s it has a couple drawbacks. It wasn't designed by John Browning :) , it's a side ejector, and it won't "slam fire." I hate that term, it just sounds so wannabe-Rambo. Anyway, the first two I can't do anything about, but what about the last? Is there anyway to disable the disconnector on a 590 without damaging the gun or reducing the reliability?

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Jack2427
May 31, 2005, 06:02 AM
You get two pieces of advice:

1. Legal; never deactivate any safety device on a weapon.
2. Safety; never, but never, deactivate a trigger disconncector on a shotgun, or any other weapon.

Ithaca lost its LE market share because of its lack of a trigger disconnector(helped along a little by the 870). A number of LEO were killed or injured, and a lot of ADs were ocassioned by this problem. There is no discernable advantage to being able to slam fire a pump gun, I have an example of just about every fighting shotgun since the 97. And even though the 1897 Winchester will slam fire, it does not increase accuracy, or rate of fire. Remember that with a shotgun you have limited ammo capacity, so that you want each shot to count and that means aimed fire, even against an area target. Machine gunners are taught not to spray and pray, they are taught to shoot in short aimed bursts. No responsible instructor will tell a student to hold the trigger down and swing the weapon back and forth ala hollywood. If you don't want to do that with a weapon that may have a hundred times the ammo capacity of your scattergun, why would you do it with the shotgun?
If you can pump rapidly, you can release the trigger about 10 times as rapidly, conservatively speaking, and provide much more effective fire.
When the USMC adopted the 590A series, one of its criteria was that the trigger disconnector never failed during the testing process. A trigger disconnector failure was considered a major failure of the weapon. Fortunately for Mossberg, none did.
Oops, soapbox is getting wobbly, happy shooting.

Cosmoline
May 31, 2005, 06:17 AM
I must disagree with the previous post regarding the inherent safety concerns with older pump action shotguns that don't have one. There are indeed circumstances where "fan firing" a shotgun can come in very handy. A very large hairy creature with five inch claws charging you is one such circumstance. Also, it's a lot of fun and there's nothing inherently unsafe about the practice so long as the usual safety rules are followed. The "accidental" discharges in question were not "accidental" at all--they were the direct result of stupid cops keeping their fingers on the trigger while cycling the action and pointing the firearm at the back of someone else, or in an unsafe direction. LEO departments and the military don't want their bonehead members shooting each other because of poor trigger finger discipline, so they demand a disconnector.

But YOU AND I have a choice, thankfully. There is NO LAW prohibiting us from deactivating a safety. In some cases, such as Marlin leverguns, the safety makes the firearm far LESS safe and LESS reliable. I wouldn't advise messing with an existing trigger disconnector unless you really know what you're doing. But OTOH I would not hesitate to recommend a Deerslayer or old Model 10. They're sweet, sweet shotguns. If loaded with moderate recoiling slugs or shells, they can be fired with astonishing speed.

Zach S
May 31, 2005, 07:51 AM
I never hear it called slam-fire except here. My friends call it pump-shooting.

Dave McCracken
May 31, 2005, 08:48 AM
I've been involved in debates over this for the last 30 years.

Here's my opinion....

There's an inverse ratio at work here. The more actual combat experience that people have, the less they love the lack of a disconnector. Few folks want the grunt next to them used to cycling the action of their weapon while holding down the trigger.

I've shot 97s,37s and one 12 this way, hits went down faster than times. And I'm fairtomiddlin'.

If the good 3 gun folks can get off 5 shots in less than 3 seconds with all hits using an 870, I doubt the times and scores of fan fire fans(Sorry for the play on words) are much better.

Maybe some of the regulars with non disconnector shotguns can try a few COFs and see what the scores and times are.

Gunsnrovers
May 31, 2005, 09:47 AM
I have a Winchester 1897 and a Stevens 620A with out a disconnector. My Ithaca 37 is a LAPD varient with a disconnector and a fixed blade rear sight. Both my 870's obviously also have disconnectors.

The LEO AD's were more often ND's with poor muzzle and finger control. Still, I agree that's why Ithaca added a disconnector.

I can put more pellets on target faster when I pull the trigger each time. I can empty the 97 and 620 very fast, but you won't be able to find all the 00 buck inside the silhouette. I've had the 97 and 620 the longest of my shotguns and used the 97 for SASS for a few years so I have a decent amount of time behind the trigger.

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