3-gun?


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mhdishere
May 31, 2005, 12:30 PM
I saw a TV show over the weekend that dealt in part with 3-gun competition. (We were out of town, it was on a station we don't normally get, the Outdoor Life Network).

The guy showing all the three-gun stuff had three really nice guns, a comped 1911, an AR-type rifle and a semi-auto shotgun. I personally would classify all three as "race guns".

Now for my questions:

Is there a governing body for 3-gun? Something like IPSC, IDPA, etc?

Are there classes for 3-gun like there are for IPSC? If you didn't want full-blown race guns but wanted to shoot would you be competing against the guys with the high-tech stuff?

Does one REALLY need the high-tech stuff for 3-gun? Could someone show up with (say) a .357 revolver, an SKS and a pump-action shotgun and shoot AND be competitive if he did his part?

Finally, does this sport even EXIST in NJ?

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nico
May 31, 2005, 01:34 PM
If the info on shootingUSA is correct, USPSA (IPSC) is the main governing body for 3-gun. They do have classes for non-race guns but I can't remember the rules other than no optical sights and speedloaders for shotguns are allowed.

Correia
May 31, 2005, 02:37 PM
USPSA has their 3gun, and that is the most common type. However the majority of matches, and also most of the big matches are independant, and put on by a single organization or club. So equipment rules vary greatly from match to match. Most matches allow some sort of basic or limited class though.

Pump guns are fine as long as you know how to manipulate it fast. SKS is going to be a real challenge, unless you are an absolute mack daddy with stripper clips. Revolver is the same. You had better be real handy with a speed loader. Round counts tend to be on the high side.

Chris Rhines
May 31, 2005, 09:31 PM
Is there a governing body for 3-gun? Something like IPSC, IDPA, etc? Like Correia said, the United States Practical Shooting Association has a set of multi-gun rules. There are also IDPA-style three-gun matches, IMG (International Multi-Gun) matches, and others. The differences are mostly in scoring. All the rule sets for three-gun that I'm aware of have some provision for stock or basic guns.

Are there classes for 3-gun like there are for IPSC? If you didn't want full-blown race guns but wanted to shoot would you be competing against the guys with the high-tech stuff? There are equipment-based divisions in three-gun, and most of the time different divisions don't offically compete. I shoot Tactical-Scope division, which basically means a pistol with no compensator or optics, a rifle with one scope, and a shotgun with no comps, optics, or speedloaders.

Could someone show up with (say) a .357 revolver, an SKS and a pump-action shotgun and shoot AND be competitive if he did his part? To put it bluntly, no. I know this isn't what you want to hear, but if you want to be competitive in three-gun you have to have the right gear. That usually means a high-capacity semi-automatic shotgun, a tuned-up AR-15 rifle, and an accurate, high-capacity pistol with a light trigger.

Starting from zero, I would expect to spend $2500 to put together a set of competitive three-gun gear - that includes all three guns, carry gear, ammo pouches, reloader, training gear, and ammo. Expensive, yes. About like buying a nice set of golf clubs.

That said, if all you have is a .38 M10, an SKS, and a stock 870, come out and shoot anyway. Even if you go out and buy ten grand worth of custom gear, you won't be competitive right away anyhow, so shoot what you have while saving for what you need. ;)

Finally, does this sport even EXIST in NJ? Yes, as a matter of fact. http://www.obcats.com/ I've never shot at the Old Bridge Rifle and Pistol club, but people keep telling me that they put on great matches. They do a couple three-gun matches every year, and almost always have rifle or shotgun side matches after their regular monthly USPSA matches. Check them out.

- Chris

nico
May 31, 2005, 10:51 PM
So, just out of curiosity, would a mag tube extension on my SX2 be good enough for the shotgun portion?

Chris Rhines
June 1, 2005, 08:10 AM
The SX2 Practical is the shotgun to beat in Standard division, and quite a few Open shooters use them as well. What model SX2 do you have?

- Chris

mhdishere
June 1, 2005, 09:59 AM
My hypothetical 3-gun set-up what really rhetorical, since of those three I only own the .357 right now. I was just trying to get an idea of what type of equipment would be in order for this game.

Since I have no particular interest in an AR type rifle I'll elsewhere for my shooting fun. Thanks for the info!

Langenator
June 1, 2005, 12:00 PM
An AR-15 isn't a requirement-it's just what most the folks out there use.

If you're more interested in the .30 caliber rifles, you can use an M1A, or an FAL, or even an M1 Garand. These will put you in the 'Heavy Metal' category that some clubs offer if you also use a .45 (or .44) and a 12 gauge.

I've also heard of guys who compete with AKs.

Some of what you can use depends on your goals-is winning (or being competitive) super important to you, or do you just want to have fun and improve your skills with your favorite firearms?

Hoser
June 1, 2005, 12:34 PM
I will second the vote to shoot at Old Bridge. I have shot there several times at the Tri-Service Academy matches and was always very impressed with John and his crew.

Go there and check out a match. Then decide if its something you want to get into.

Zak Smith
June 1, 2005, 01:07 PM
Links to old 3Gun threads

Match reports:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=98190
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=71466
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=37394
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=99368

Getting started in 3gun
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=57770

New folks asking about 3gun
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=86821
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=43465

Local match overviews
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=82535
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=50510

(thanks Correia)

Correia
June 1, 2005, 07:24 PM
You're welcome Zak. :)

Now you don't have to have an AR to compete. In fact I do pretty well and I use a Vepr or a FAL. We had a rifle match last Saturday, 3gun style, but rifles only, and I took 2nd overall and 1st in irons using a Vepr. And the other shooter were pretty darn good.

I would suggest that any reliable and decently accurate magazine fed semi-auto will serve to start. Great gear helps a lot, but really at the local club level it all comes down to the man running the gun. Better guns are always better, but the most important thing is to just get out there and start shooting.

Now at the national level, there are guys out there who will beat you like a red headed step child. :D This I know for a fact as I've been on the end of more than a few whippings. They have great gear, but in reality they would be good with a pointy stick and a rock.

On the revolver, like I said, the key will be reloading. I'm afraid that 6 shots is going to go really fast and then you better be able to reload like Jerry Mickulek. :) But even then, get out there and try it. That is the important thing.

monsternav
June 1, 2005, 11:27 PM
I use my FA-91 (G3 clone), a Benelli Nova w/o a mag extension, and an SA 1911 Mil-Spec w/ 8 round mags, and I do pretty well. Heck, some guys have more tied up in optics than I have in all my gear!

Our 3-gun shoots are pretty laid back though, and a lot of fun. I would say attend/shoot one or two before dismissing them.

mhdishere
June 2, 2005, 10:39 AM
Actually, the PTR-91 (HK-91 clone) has had me drooling lately (I think they're NJ legal, Sarco doesn't say they're not), and I'm deeply ashamed at the fact that I don't yet have a 1911 (I'm mostly a revolver guy).

Old Bridge is about 45 minutes away from home, maybe I'll take a run out there one day. I've been looking for a good range ever since I moved to Bergen County.

nico
June 2, 2005, 02:22 PM
The SX2 Practical is the shotgun to beat in Standard division, and quite a few Open shooters use them as well. What model SX2 do you have?
I have a field model with a 28" barrel so it wouldn't handle as quick as the practical.

Hoser
June 2, 2005, 04:26 PM
The SX2 Practical is the shotgun to beat in Standard division,
If you can get them to not do the occasional double feed... Thats a 15 second jam. Even after Dave Neffs heavier latch spring and a trip back to Winchester, mine kept on doing it.

For Limited/standard the Benellis can be found at the top and for Open the 1100 still is king.

The bad thing about the Benellis is when you shoot them dry. Thats when they arent so simple.

Zak Smith
June 2, 2005, 06:33 PM
The Benelli has a little funny manual of arms. As long as you train with it, it's fine IMO.

To load from empty w/ bolt locked back, you pop one in the chamber port, hit the button, and then load the tube.

-z

BillL223
June 3, 2005, 09:00 PM
I'm from PA and always go to Old Bridge when they have a long gun match. They have a rifle match scheduled 7/31/05, You need an AR or similar rifle to be competitive. There is a Shotgun match 8/27/05. Check their website for details. The Winchester SX does not own this division, Benelli M1 and Remington 1100 do. There is other long gun activity in the area. Topton (near Allentown, PA) had a 212 round USPSA Rifle match last weekend. Square Deal near Binghampton had the NY State rifle match 4/30-5/1. Ontaulaunee (also near Allentown PA) has a 9 stage shotgun match scheduled for 6/19/05. A revolver will not be competitive in 3-gun. A pump shotgun will be O.K.if you can reload it quickly. Old Bridge has a multi-gun 3-gun Tactical match scheduled 10/29 and 30. This is NOT an entry level match.

patentmike
June 6, 2005, 01:45 PM
Do you need all three at once, or will a CCU work to convert a 1911 for the "rifle" portion?

Zak Smith
June 6, 2005, 01:48 PM
You'll need them separate for multi-gun stages.

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