Florida SB 436 protested as "racist"


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Preacherman
May 31, 2005, 11:40 AM
I utterly fail to see anything logical or concrete in these protesters' comments. SB 436 simply provides for the legal use of lethal force against intruders in your home or on your property. There is no racial element in it whatsoever - unless these protesters are saying (indirectly) that more intruders are likely to be of a particular race, and therefore might be more prone to the consequences of their illegal actions. I wonder if they'd admit to that, if I asked them? :scrutiny:


From the Pensacola News Journal (http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/news/html/144D9EC2-3924-4D1C-AC87-78265BA4E16C.shtml):

Crowd protests deadly force law

Critics: Bill can be easily misinterpreted

May 31, 2005

Nicole Lozare@PensacolaNewsJournal.com

Throughout Pensacola, barbecue grills were heating up on Monday afternoon -- a Memorial Day tradition.

But underneath the canopy of downtown trees, and near the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. bust on the Palafox Street median, about 100 people softly sang hymns about a time when black people were oppressed.

And that, the impromptu singers believe, continues today.

Instead of slavery, the chains now come in the form of laws that are a threat to the black community, said a number of speakers at the two-hour rally Monday.

The issue: Florida Senate Bill 436, signed last month by Gov. Jeb Bush. It guarantees that people aren't prosecuted for using deadly force against intruders on their property.

The bill, filed by Sen. Durell Peaden, R-Crestview, was inspired by James Workman, a local man who killed an intruder in his southwest Escambia County home in the early hours of Nov. 3. No charges were filed against Workman.

But critics say that the bill just gives people a license to kill that can easily be abused or misinterpreted.

"What about all those people who perpetuate hate and who will use this as an act of aggression?" said the Rev. Hugh King, president of the Pensacola chapter of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, the organization that conducted the event.

"We live in some scary times right now," said Susan Watson, president of the local chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union. Watson, who is white, rhetorically asked the crowd if they believe that the law would be applied equally to her and to a black man.

Many in the crowd shook their heads; others yelled out, "No!"

"It got passed because we didn't do anything about it. It's our fault," she said. "We have to do something about it."

Chicago Alderman Dorothy Tillman, formerly of Pensacola, said the law will "lead to open war on black males."

"It's almost a way to eliminate people. Black men will be under the ground more than ever."

Tillman, a former staffer for King, was not on the list of speakers but was invited to the stage. She later led the crowd in singing the hymns.

Annie Winn, 62, brought her 5- and 11-year-old great-grandchildren to listen to the speakers.

"A lot of people are going to be killed," she said. "We need to protest and try to change this law -- it's just crazy."

At the end of the rally, Charles Steele, the national leader of the SCLC, charged the crowd to protest the law. Steele then led the crowd in a march down Palafox.

"The people united will never be defeated," they chanted.

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dasmi
May 31, 2005, 11:43 AM
"It's almost a way to eliminate people. Black men will be under the ground more than ever."

Er, why is that? Are you saying black men commit more violent crime? Cause that's what it sounds like.

svtruth
May 31, 2005, 11:48 AM
And if that's what they meant, isn't that racist?

dasmi
May 31, 2005, 11:51 AM
I sure think so.
But, what they really mean is us evil, rich whitemen will use it as an excuse to blast poor black men.

El Tejon
May 31, 2005, 11:55 AM
Projection again by the anti-gunners.

Gray Peterson
May 31, 2005, 12:03 PM
Chicago Alderman Dorothy Tillman, formerly of Pensacola, said the law will "lead to open war on black males."

Dorothy "The Hat" Tillman. The same Dorothy who waved a gun around at the city alderman meeting in Chicago, and was never charged?

Mr. X
May 31, 2005, 12:07 PM
If more black men are found inside the homes of persons who didn't invite them in, then I guess the law MIGHT be racist, but it's too bad that such a situation represents a criminal act and a threat to the property owner. :rolleyes:

makanut
May 31, 2005, 12:11 PM
Wow. Once again, I just don't know where to start. Apparently, these "Civil Rights Groups" are running out of stuff to do. So if I shoot someone with my Glock breaking into my 10 year-old daughter's bedroom window, and the perp happens to be black, I'm a racist. However, if the perp happens to be white, that makes everything ok. Now I understand the logic.

The whole purpose of using deadly force would be to prevent my 10 year old daughter from being raped, sodomized, and then having her throat cut. But according to the American Communist Party (AKA the Democrats), the motivation behind this use of force is racism, pure and simple. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK DEMOCRATS!!!!! Oh yeah, I almost forgot, RUN HILLARY RUN!!!

gc70
May 31, 2005, 12:13 PM
This is where the tortured dialogue on discrimination has brought us. The definition of discrimination has been moved beyond disparate treatment (treating different people in different ways) into the realm of disparate results (looking at whether there is a difference in results).

Since the new Florida law does not mention race, I guess these people believe the law will have disparate results. Of course that would mean that proportionately more blacks would have to be shot as home intruders than whites. Reaching that conclusion suggests that the protesters believe:
Proportionately more blacks are home intruders than whites, or;
Homeowners will choose to shoot black home intruders proportionately more often than white home intruders.
<sarcasm>
The protesters obviously believe that #2 will be the case, since they couldn't possibly be defending #1.
</sarcasm>

fletcher
May 31, 2005, 01:06 PM
Are they calling themselves thieves?

Chicago Alderman Dorothy Tillman, formerly of Pensacola, said the law will "lead to open war on black males."

Pffff. Only if they attack people.

jefnvk
May 31, 2005, 01:13 PM
They are racist for not supporting this. I would think that if a black person would be charged for shooting an invader, where they may look the other way for a white person (as the people imply that blacks are charged where a white wouldn't be), this now puts both homeowners on equal grounds. Neither can be prosecuted.

They are the ones supporting the opression.

Don Gwinn
May 31, 2005, 03:02 PM
Dorothy Tillman might be the craziest person (currently) on the Chicago City Council. That's no small thing.

El Tejon
May 31, 2005, 03:57 PM
Don, you are saying The Hat is crazy for only carrying a .38, right? :D

thebucket
May 31, 2005, 04:00 PM
I think the real problem here is the new definition of "racism". "Racism" means that something bad happens to a member of a minority, regardless of whether a majority member suffers the same or worse. In this case, black people may die. Therefore it is "racist". Even if 10 or a 100 times more white people died because of the law, it would still be racist to black people, because black people died as a result. Also, the minority member is never at fault for his/her own actions. It's assumed the minority member can do as he/she pleases and shouldn't suffer any consequences for it. When consequences are incurred, it is "racism" at work. Even if white people suffer the exact same consequences. :barf: :barf: :barf: :fire: :fire: :fire:

Cliff
May 31, 2005, 04:36 PM
I wonder how much racist BS that idiot bunch will yell if someone attacks one of them on the street,and they will not be able to defend themselves. Look, I'M BLACK,and I WISH we had a similar proactive law here in Maryland. But this group will then call for more police to patrol around their community,and then yell racist again because they either will see too many cops bothering all black men,or they don't see a cop on every street corner 24 hours a day.

Chicago Alderman Dorothy Tillman, formerly of Pensacola, said the law will "lead to open war on black males."

Comments like this from someone like Tillman is about as asinine,and plain stupid as a person can get. Damn near as stupid as the comment by D.C. delagate Eleanor Holmes Norton regarding legislation to repel the DC gun bill.
And I quote,"They're trying to see to it that more children get killed,".

:banghead: :fire: :cuss: :scrutiny: :barf:

Sorry folks, my little rant is now off..

dasmi
May 31, 2005, 04:39 PM
,"They're trying to see to it that more children get killed,".

Of course, gun owners hate children. We revel in their demise. We eat them for breakfast. Didn't you know?

Bartholomew Roberts
May 31, 2005, 04:43 PM
"We live in some scary times right now," said Susan Watson, president of the local chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union. Watson, who is white, rhetorically asked the crowd if they believe that the law would be applied equally to her and to a black man.

Then the problem isn't the law, is it?

dasmi
May 31, 2005, 04:44 PM
+1 ^

El Tejon
May 31, 2005, 04:46 PM
"Racism"=smokescreen for socialistic plans and operations. :D

Standing Wolf
May 31, 2005, 06:05 PM
The issue: Florida Senate Bill 436, signed last month by Gov. Jeb Bush.

Should we tell the race card players they're late, or wait for them to figure it out on their own?

Randy in Arizona
May 31, 2005, 07:00 PM
Standing Wolf - Should we tell the race card players they're late, or wait for them to figure it out on their own?

The problem is that race card players are not playing with a full deck in the first place.
And as for waiting for them to figure it out on their own, you attribute to them mental capabilities many orders of magnitude greater than those they possess.
:fire: :cuss: :banghead:

Standing Wolf
May 31, 2005, 11:28 PM
...you attribute to them mental capabilities many orders of magnitude greater than those they possess.

I stand corrected.

Atticus
May 31, 2005, 11:43 PM
This attitude is widespread, and the reason is obvious. YES - more black (and white) males will likely die if they encounter an armed victim during the commission of a crime. The majority of urban black "leaders" overwhelmingly fought against concealed carry laws as well. Missouri is a prime example. Civil rights leaders in both St. Louis and KC rallied against the CC law.

Standing Wolf
May 31, 2005, 11:46 PM
Civil rights leaders in both St. Louis and KC rallied against the CC law.

They're not civil rights leaders. They might be called "leaders" in some other sense, but they're standing squarely in the way of the nation's civil rights.

Glock Glockler
June 1, 2005, 12:35 AM
"Racism"=smokescreen for socialistic plans and operations.

Tejon, I know some who call those of us that don't like illegal immigration racists, you should tell them the error of their ways;)

The_Antibubba
June 1, 2005, 06:36 AM
I'm outraged at these protesters for not highlighting how sexist this law is; after all, virtually all of these alleged home invaders will be male! Why does Jeb feel the need to target men?

:rolleyes:

Master Blaster
June 1, 2005, 08:40 AM
This is where the tortured dialogue on discrimination has brought us. The definition of discrimination has been moved beyond disparate treatment (treating different people in different ways) into the realm of disparate results (looking at whether there is a difference in results).

The standard in Equal rights cases heard by the EEOC has always been "Disparate Impact" that means the intent is not important only the results matter.

Lets face it Black males tend to be perpetrators of crimes in a disproportionately high number relative to their population, so most likely they will be shot more frequently as a percentage of their population. BUT if you break into a persons home or try to rob, or assault them you deserve to be shot.

This nonsense as always fails to address the real problem, which is that these folks see crime as a way of life, you and I are just prey, and thats why black males tend do get shot more often.

OF COURSE THE PART THESE NINNY's forget is that BLACK males tend to be shot most often by their fellow Black male crimminals with illegally owned guns in their own Hood. In fact about 95% of the shootings in my town are black on black violence related to the drug trade in some way. :barf: :fire:

These folks ought to be protesting the death of black males down in the hood where it happens, but of course thats not a real safe place or ideal for the TV cameras..

Don Gwinn
June 1, 2005, 08:56 AM
If that nice, liberal, socially conscious white lady would just break into a few houses late at night, she wouldn't have to ask rhetorically. She could find out first hand whether people would shoot her as many times as they'd shoot a black man. :rolleyes:

If I ever find a well-dressed white woman hurting my wife or kids, she's probably getting shot.



Kirk, Dorothy Tillman definitely needs more gun. So would I if I had a mouth like hers.

HankB
June 1, 2005, 09:33 AM
Similarly hysterical cries of "RACISM" were shouted when Louisiana passed their "Shoot A Burglar" law, oh, it must be a couple of decades ago by now. I saw a "debate" on TV between one of the bill's authors and a lady from, IIRC, the NAACP.

Black lady: "Black people will be killed in great numbers!"

White guy: "You've said black people are victims of crime more often than white people. This law protects them, too. You should support it."

Black lady: "But more blacks will be killed!"

White guy: "Are you saying blacks commit more crimes? That sounds pretty racist."

Black lady: "Well, what if a black man is driving through a white neighborhood at night, has car trouble, and knocks on a door for help? He'll be shot under this law!"

White guy: "It's the shoot a BURGLAR law - nobody can shoot someone under this law just for knocking on their door or ringing the doorbell, regardless of the hour!"

Black lady: "Well, suppose there's no answer, so to get to a phone he breaks a window and climbs in - the homeowner can shoot him then!"

White guy: "If there's no answer at the door and he breaks in rather than trying the next house, he IS a burglar then, isn't he?" :rolleyes:

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