[2dogs]

http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=6681

Anti-War Protesters Beware
By Associated Press
Associated Press | March 17, 2003


Security forces at Vandenberg Air Force Base may use ``deadly force'' against protesters if they infiltrate the military complex if a war starts, officials said.
Some anti-war activists plan to trespass onto base grounds in hopes of disturbing Vandenberg's mission and to vandalize sensitive equipment they contend helps guide the war effort.

Vandenberg officials revealed Friday that military security police may shoot to kill, if necessary, to protect base residents and machinery.

The directive has always been in existence, but a base spokeswoman said it is more critical now that people understand its severity.

``This is not fun and games anymore,'' said Maj. Stacee Bako. ``We're living in post 9/11. We don't know what's going to happen with the war effort in Iraq. These folks have got to realize their actions. ... They're illegal intruders.''

Military police will use their ``judgment, experience and training'' to determine if lethal force is necessary, she said.

``Deadly force can be used when lesser means of force aren't feasible or have failed, and to protect (Department of Defense) assets designated as vital to the national security,'' she explained.

The deadly force policy will not deter protesters, said Peter Lumsdaine of the Vandenberg Action Coalition, one of the organizers of the planned trespassing.

``I think it does underline that people in the nonviolent resistance movement are willing to take some risks,'' Lumsdaine said.

A Guadalupe man jumped onto the base's entrance sign Friday and sprayed it with 4 ounces of his own blood in a symbolic gesture of his anti-war stance. Dennis Apel, 52, later pleaded guilty to misdemeanor counts of trespassing and vandalism. He will be sentenced next month in a Santa Barbara federal court and faces a possible jail sentence or fine.

``We wanted them to see some blood,'' said Apel, a member of Guadalupe Catholic Worker, a social reform movement. ``We wanted them to in some way visually experience the consequences of what they're doing.''

Vandenberg has been on heightened alert since the 2001 terrorist attacks, with barricades near sensitive equipment and tighter access to the classified installation.

Bako said the security measures, including the deadly force decree, are necessary because of the threat of biological weapons.

``It's impossible for us to determine what their intent is,'' she said. ``Are they protesters? Are there terrorists in that group and (do) they plan on killing everyone on base? They all have to be dealt with as very specific threats, whether they're vandalizing a sign, crossing the green (no trespassing) line or infiltrating the backcountry.''

[Greg L]

Good, I hope that they get a few. Maybe then the bliss ninnies will realize that there are legitimate avenues of protest and that breaking and entering isn't one of them.

Of course I'm not looking forward to the twits who do get killed being turned into media induced martyrs.

Greg

[riverdog]

... sorta like that American protester in the West Bank who laid down in front of the Israeli Army's bulldozer and was subsequesntly buried and crushed. Sometimes being a protester gets you dead. The deadly force policy will not deter protesters, said Peter Lumsdaine of the Vandenberg Action Coalition, one of the organizers of the planned trespassing. I wonder where this Peter Lumsdaine guy will be standing while his protestors get killed. My guess is he'll be on the right side of the fence, with the news crew waiting for a sound bite.

[stevelyn]

Chlorinating the gene pool. Everyone wants to win a Darwin.

[foghornl]

If those {descriptive phrases deleted} IDIOTAS breach the fence at ANY Military installation, then they deserve what ever they get as traitors/spys/sabateurs/infiltrators/any other appropriate description.

Breaching the fence, damaging equipment, communications, etc, to me is an Act of War against the USA. Doing any of those things makes you an enemy combatant, and you are now fair game for our soldiers. If you are holdoing the fence open for those folks, while on the 'civilian side' of said fence, then you are giving aid, comfort, and counsel to the enemy. Same result.

[XLMiguel]

What foghornl said. Catch 'em, try 'em , hang 'em.

[Raymond VanDerLinden]

and damage equipent. Yup Sounds real Nonviolent to me. How, pray tell, do you nonviolently bust stuff up.

It also amazes me that these "War Protesters" are more than willing to place American Servicemen in Jepordy. In order to protect Saddam and his buddies.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but isn't "Giving Aid and Comfort to the Enemy" a large part of what the Constitution defines as Treason? And Isn't Treason still a Capital Offense?

Therefor the use of Deadly force would be authorized to prevent treasonous acts or aprehend those supected of treason. Sounds like Open season on traitors.

Gets a little sad when these fools think giving Aid and Comfort to the Enemy, and causing undue risk to the saftey of U.S. Troops is somehow part of the First Amendment.

[BenW]

It's about time they quit babying those idiot protestors. I work for another Federal agency and once had a helo tour of Vandenberg. The pilot said that they waste half their time on security flights specifically for protestors sneaking in from land or sea (and often rescuing the ones trying to establish a beach-head because of the rough surf conditions). This of course is all done on the taxpayers' dime.
:cuss:

[Quartus]

and often rescuing the ones trying to establish a beach-head because of the rough surf conditions



:mad: I really hate to read about taxpayer's money being wasted. Especially this way.

[Marko Kloos]

This of course is all done on the taxpayers' dime.

Isn't it possible to bill them for services rendered?

[rock jock]

Not being in the military and wanting to contribute in some small way, I would like to volunteer my time (and rifle) to this cause and free up troops for more important tasks elsewhere. Please, please let me volunteeer!

[Drjones]

What foghornl said. Catch 'em, try 'em , hang 'em.

Nope. Wrong. No trial.

They've had a warning, they acknowledge that they are very aware of the policy, and they choose to ignore it.

They have made clear their intentions to disrupt and vandalize Armed Forces property, personnel and operations.

The Armed Forces have made clear their policy on dealing with such offenders.

Shoot on sight.

One shot, one kill.

Don't waste any more bullets than you need to, as these [long list of expletives] aren't worth even one bullet.

[BenW]

Isn't it possible to bill them for services rendered?

Lendsringer, this is not a fact, only my opinion: I believe they don't do so (though they legally can) because Vandenberg is CONSTANTLY under attack by environmental organizations in an environmentally active state. I think they have in the past foregone charging for rescues, as well as just escorted trespassers off the base instead of arresting them, as a goodwill strategy.

Unfortunately by the military "giving an inch" the protestors are "taking a yard." It's often ironic, since the space launches protestors want stopped include environmental satellites that serve the environmentalists' cause and rescue satellites that aid in land an sea rescues of people worldwide.

[PATH]

Saboteurs entering a protected military facility shoud be shot on sight. If we are at war and these protesters attempt to destroy military equipment they shuold be treated as enemy combatants.

[Quartus]

Don't waste any more bullets than you need to, as these [long list of expletives] aren't worth even one bullet.

I disagree. I think they are well deserving of one bullet.


http://www.thehighroad.org/images/icons/icon13.gif

[Drjones]

I disagree. I think they are well deserving of one bullet

True.

I meant they aren't worth even the cost of that one bullet, though they do deserve it.

:fire:

[Zorro]

Target Vandenberg AFB (http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/horowitz.html)

The Fifth Column Left
Declares War

http://www.NewsAndOpinion.com | I have
long warned that the peace movement is not about
peace, that it is a fifth column communist movement
to destroy America and give victory to our
totalitarian enemies. Now this Fifth Column is
preparing to move into action to attempt to defeat
America in its war against Saddam.

On the day after the U.S. military action in Iraq
begins, the Fifth Column is preparing to begin its
own war at home. The plan is to cause major
disruptions - illegal in nature - in cities across the
country to disrupt the flow of normal civic life.
These actions will tie up Homeland Security forces
and create a golden opportunity for domestic
terrorists. The Fifth Column left is also planning to
invade military bases. Here is a report from
Salon.com's Michelle Goldberg:

[Camp] Vandenberg is about 50 miles
north Santa Barbara, Calif. In a few days,
activists will start converging on a nearby
four-acre plot of land…. They're going to
camp there and train to breach the base's
security and possibly vandalize some of its
equipment. The [leader of the activists]
describes the base as "the electronic nerve
center of the global-surveillance-targeting,
weapons-guidance, and military-command
satellites that will largely direct the war." The
base is 99,000 square acres, with a
perimeter running through rugged, wooded
terrain. "If people are committed and
determined and in halfway decent physical
shape, it is possible to get in, because it's
enormous and much of the land is still fairly
wild," he says. Within the base, [the action
leader] says, are "major off-limits security
zones," that, when breached, "set off a series
of responses in their own security
procedures which require disruption and
partial shut down of regular activities,"
which means the base can't operate at
full capacity.

Here is the Internet call to arms for New York City from a group calling
itself "No Blood for Oil" (caps in original)-

The No Blood For Oil! Resistance Campaign is calling on
all those who oppose the war, to join us in making the first
day of concentrated US attack on Iraq an International Day
of Civil Resistance! We'll be rallying in New York's Times
Square at 5 p.m. that day - or 5 p.m. the next day, if the
US assault begins at night - to inaugurate a campaign of civil
resistance that will continue as long as U.S. aggression
does. THIS MEANS NO BUSINESS AS USUAL! WE
JOIN WITH MILLIONS ACROSS THE COUNTRY
WHO CALL FOR A 'WORK STOPPAGE' ON THIS
DAY! NO WORK, NO SCHOOL, NO BUSINESS AS
USUAL!

Similar actions are planned for San Francisco (actagainstwar.com), Los
Angeles (ainfos.ca/en/ainfos11175.html), and the nation's capital,
Washington DC (dc.indymedia.org) The DC plan calls for five different
actions designed to cause major domestic disruption:

These will be direct action oriented, unpermitted demonstrations to
interrupt Business as Usual in the Capital of Capital and to raise the
social costs of the US Government to Wage war on Iraq and the world...

The above actions will be carried out by the main forces of the Fifth
Column communist "peace movement." The violence will be
spear-headed by the anarchist "Black Bloc.". This is a collection of
anarchist "affinity groups" (see War Room #5 for a description of "affinity
groups") who dress in black with faces covered to facilitate illegal
actions. (A clearing house website for the Black Bloc is
www.infoshop.org/blackbloc.html) These are the groups that caused
massive disruption and damage during the anti-globalizations riots in
Seattle, and have wreaked civil havoc in other American cities.

There will also be larger law-breaking demonstrations timed for the "day
after" our soldiers enter Iraq. The stated intent of the large communist[2]
peace organizations (United for Peace and Justice, Not In Our Name
and International ANSWER) is to "interrupt the flow of normal life."
Since the organizers cannot know the date when military action will begin
and thus cannot get permits for their events, these are illegal
demonstrations as well and their goal is sinister.

If security forces are tied up, obviously the opportunities for domestic
terrorist attacks increase. But organizers maintain that even though their
actions are designed to tie up Homeland Security forces they will be
"non-violent."

Not so the actions of the Black Bloc, who launch their guerrilla
operations from the main demonstrations. Here is a sample of their
thinking, taken from their website
(infoshop.org/octo/wto_blackbloc.html):

We contend that property destruction is not a violent activity unless it
destroys lives or causes pain in the process. By this definition, private
property--especially corporate private property--is itself infinitely more
violent than any action taken against it.

Q: Why do black blocs attack the police? A: Because they
are in the way. While most anarchists oppose police
brutality and seek an end to policing and prisons, our main
targets are the rich and powerful. Since the police are the
violent face of capitalism, in other words, the guard dogs for
the rich, they are on the frontlines when the anarchists come
to pursue our class war against the rich.

The military authorities at Vandenberg Air Force base have already
announced that they will use deadly force to repel the saboteurs.
Legislators should take forceful measures as well. They could begin by
increasing the penalties on existing legislation for this kind of civil
disobedience and make them mandatory. This will deter some activists
and take others out of commission for the duration of the war. We
suggest making this civil disruption during a Yellow Alert a felony with a
mandatory 6 months in a confined facility and $10,000 fine. If the crime
involves violence or is committed during an Orange Alert, we suggest
increasing the penalties to one year in jail and a $50,000 fine. If the alert
is Red, 2 years in jail and a $100,000 fine. Much larger fines should be
assessed on groups that sponsor these actions.

Congress should also look to reactivating sedition laws that would meet
the threat posed by the deadly seriousness of the anti-American Fifth
Column. These activists are not playing games. They have dedicated their
lives to the service of Communist regimes and anti-American causes.
They are the fruit of more than thirty years of leftist attacks on this
country. Now the international terrorists have provided them with their
dream: the war has finally come home.

The attempt to sabotage America's war effort is not dissent and should
be a wake-up call to all those critics of the Justice Department's efforts to
protect us by surveilling anti-American groups. Clearly, both the FBI and
our security laws are well behind the curve, since these saboteurs have
not been deterred from their deadly ambitions. Criminal subversion and
sedition are not protected by the Bill Rights and the perpetrators should
be punished harshly enough to remove them from the field of battle.

AND DAMMIT I CAN'T GET A PERMIT TO SHOOT ONE! :fire:

[UnknownSailor]

Well, if they want to see what the business end of our modern US small arms, messing around on Edwards is about as fast of a way as I can think of.

[synoptic]

If those bases are anything like MacDill was during desert storm/shield the "activists (terrorists)" are going to have some problems. The streets the Generals lived on were barricaded with controlled access points and armed guards at many points. I can just imagine what the secured areas were like. I would say breaking into a secure military base is about as bright as sitting in front of a bulldozer...

[ahadams]

I mean how else do you explain how those left wing idiots seem to think they're bullet proof...last time I thought I was bullet proof I was an E-4 with too much OB beer in me...I thought I was invincible, right up to the moment I fell into the binjo ditch...

[translation: 'binjo' was G.I. vernacular for the Korean word for latrine. The open sewers that were common in Korea right up into the '70's were called binjo ditches. ]

[homeka45]

Hopefully they allow them to carry their weapons with full magazines.:confused:

[jmbg29]

Security forces at Vandenberg AFB may use "deadly force'' against protesters Out-:cuss:ing-standing!!!!!!

[Bob Locke]

I hope these morons are as prepared to give their lives as our men and women in uniform are, because if they try to breach a military facility during a time of war then they'll get their chance.

Go protest the government. I have no problem with that. And I have no problem with civil disobedience up to a point. What these people are talking about definitely crosses that line.

They should be prepared to be repelled using whatever means the commanders deem necessary.

[S_O_Laban]

I'd have to say these people qualify as "enemies of the state":evil:

[4570Rick]

Lets see. We are at war. We're at high threat level. They threatened to disrupt operations at a military base.

Wait and shoot them when they violate security?

They made terrorist threats. Go hunt them down and throw them in jail, then set their trial date for two months after flowers grow out of the ashes that were Saddam!!!! :fire: :fire: :fire:

[Thumper]

Malone will be here in a minute to explain how ANSWER and the World Workers Party aren't anti-American organizations.

:rolleyes:

Communists tickle me. I like to think of 'em as bullet sumps.

[Bulldozer]

Any person that actively and deliberately breaches the perimeter of an installation with hostile intent during hostilties is a combatant. Further, any individual that creates a problem in the functionality of a soldier's equipment by vandalism is a traitor and has recklessly endangered the lives of those who have stepped up to defend that ($%^#&*( freedom.

In this circumstance, I believe a liberal application of Rule 556 or 762 is in order. On second thought, Rule 9 Subsection 19 may also be applied.

[Leatherneck]

I think demonstrators all over America are in for a rude awakening. As we go to war, under the mantle of "Code Orange Plus", or Code Red if something happens, security forces everywhere are going to have NO sense of humor and little patience. Shots will be fired.

TC
TFL Survivor

[Lone Star]

As a former USAF cop, I can assure you that certain areas of AFB's are considered "no go" for unauthorized persons, and in time of unusual security considerations, "expanded" security will be in place.

Depending on where these people strike, they will probably either be turned away, or taken into custody. Deadly force was automatically authorized in some zones, if an offender could not otherwise be apprehended.

That probably hasn't changed.

These people are disgusting, and are surely guilty of sedition or outright sabotage or enemy action. I think some of them need to be prosecuted or shot outright in appropriate circumstances.

Lone Star

[Leatherneck]

Perhaps we should mount them every 100 yards on the fence?

TC
TFL Survivor

[tyme]

merged

[Gewehr98]

That as soon as ordnance drops on Iraq, U.S. military installations will go to FPCON Charlie, that 5th Column Left will discover their timing is a bit "off". :scrutiny:

[LawDog]

Multiple threads merged.

LawDog

[Zorro]

NOPE!

Vandenberg will go FPCON Delta.

Main reason being the specific and credible threat to the base.

As a side note, the retards will never find the REAL thing! ;)

[DeltaElite]

Saboteurs should be shot.
Survivors shot again and again and again. :D

[.45FMJoe]

I'm interested to see what will happen here in Tampa. MacDill is right down the road from our business (which accounts for our large number of military customers). My favorite MP who is a senior watch commander was recalled back to his home unit for deployment to the sandbox last month so I won't get all the great details/stories like I used to be able to get :( All I know is that myself, my father and my best friend(also co-worker) all pack and we have stocked up on rounds. Needless to say the 12 gauge shall be hiding out under the counter as well :D

[38Mike]

oy.....

[Quartus]

Communists tickle me. I like to think of 'em as bullet sumps.


That's going on my list of all time great lines...

:D

[Zorro]

Sadam is Dead.

Cool!

[Zorro]

The Expected Attack Date.

Peace Protestors now expect " Security Police Restraint"

Thing is REGULAR ARMY! are now running the show.

Expect Martin Sheen Obituary soon.

:D

[CampX]

Get them protesters reallly happy, tell them that they helped PAY for those bombs and planes and missiles with their hard-earned taxes.....then hose 'em. Seriously, if they break the perimeter and get on the base, deadly force is the ONLY thing to use.

[hutch24]

The only problem with that CampX is that most of these "people" have probably never worked a day in there lives and therefore haven't paid for anything. :fire: Although I do agree that they should be shot on sight. :cool: