Boycott San Diego County Fair!


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jnojr
June 1, 2005, 08:47 PM
They want to bar entry to off-duty officers who carry their sidearms...

http://www.10news.com/news/4536058/detail.html

Let them know what you think!

http://www.sdfair.com/index.php?fuseaction=about.contact

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No_Brakes23
June 1, 2005, 08:53 PM
Living in a state where the LEOs get to enjoy more of their constitutional rights than I do mine, I could give a hoot about the Del Mar fair. In fact, good on 'em for evening it up a little bit.

Oh and by the way, they are doing this at the behest of the San Diego Sheriff's Office, you left that little bit out. (Even if the SDSD wants to waffle about their opinion on the matter.)

Now ask me next year, when I might be an LEO, and I bet I will have a different perspective on this issue, but as one of the untermensch right now, it is just fine by me.

answerguy
June 1, 2005, 08:55 PM
Couldn't we just boycott San Diego?

No_Brakes23
June 1, 2005, 09:19 PM
Couldn't we just boycott San Diego? Har har. How is this a useful contribution to the discussion?

San Diego has about 14 military installations and loads of former servicemembers, making it one of the least "blue" of all the metro areas in CA.

Assembleyman LaSuer and Congressman Cunningham are both representing San Diego CA, and trying to reverse the retarded firearms laws we have now. Seeing as how Cali is one of the front lines in the RKBA battle, ditchin SD would hurt the cause, not help it.

Molon Labe
June 1, 2005, 09:32 PM
Why just San Diego? Boycott the entire RPK!

10shooter
June 1, 2005, 10:55 PM
Silly question but is this decision legally binding. In my state Texas they can post this all they want but the penal code exempts LEO in nearly all clauses. If they say no Mr. policeman you can't bring that in here then its possible occupational discrimination.

Standing Wolf
June 1, 2005, 11:12 PM
I'm sure I'll always miss the beaches and temperate climate.

jefnvk
June 1, 2005, 11:32 PM
For holding off duty LEO to the same standard as other people? I don't think so. If anything, they get an attaboy.

38SnubFan
June 1, 2005, 11:41 PM
With the new Federal law allowing all current and retired LEOs to carry concealed, I don't see how this can be legal.

Then again, CA has been known to push the envelope of "illegal" by their retarded and overzealous gun control laws for years.

I sincerely hope there's a reversal in this decision, or that the boycott is HUGE!

-38SnubFan

peacefuljeffrey
June 2, 2005, 12:21 AM
You say something like this:

Now ask me next year, when I might be an LEO, and I bet I will have a different perspective on this issue, but as one of the untermensch right now, it is just fine by me.

...and then you challenge the value of someone else's contribution to the discussion?

Isn't it true that you are saying that you're irritated by the fact that LEOs enjoy greater self defense rights (i.e. gun carry) than the rest of us, but that it won't bother you that we "untermensch" still don't have full exercise of our rights once YOU become one of the "ubermensch"?

So, as long as you are one of the elite, the struggle of the underclass won't bother you, is that what you're admitting is likely to happen if/when you become LEO? :rolleyes:

And people wonder why so many here take a dim view of law enforcement personnel.


-Jeffrey

Double Naught Spy
June 2, 2005, 01:54 AM
Couldn't we just boycott San Diego?

Har har. How is this a useful contribution to the discussion?

How is this useful? It sort of illustrates the ludicrous futility of boycotting as is often the case. You won't be making any great political victories when your opposition isn't a government agency or other agency that can effect a change in the law. In other words

Silly question but is this decision legally binding. In my state Texas they can post this all they want but the penal code exempts LEO in nearly all clauses. If they say no Mr. policeman you can't bring that in here then its possible occupational discrimination.

HB218 does not supercede state laws pertaining to carriage on state and local government property or to private property.
http://www.grandlodgefop.org/legislation/issues/hr218faq.pdf

As for Texas law exempting LEOs, what is the specific penal code? I don't recall ever reading it. I figure it might be inisghtful.

In regard to occupational discrimination if cops were not allowed to carry off duty into certain places, that is no occupational discrimination. The cops are allowed to go in those places, just not with a gun. Since unarmed officers would be allowed in, then it isn't discrimination against their occupation.

http://www.grandlodgefop.org/legislation/issues/hr218faq.pdf

Following a different lead, the concept of occupational discrimination does not pertain to discriminating against folks who work for entities different from the one supposedly doing the discriminating. The cops are not the employees of the county fair and they are not being trying to gain employment within the fair or trying to rise to a higher level within the county fair business hierarchy.

artherd
June 2, 2005, 02:41 AM
Sigh, wouldn't have belived it if I hadn't seen it in print. JTFC.


On another note:

Woodward said professionally trained sworn officers now have the authority to carry weapons across state lines in the United States and even aboard commercial aircraft

Aircraft? Hrm???

No_Brakes23
June 2, 2005, 12:07 PM
but that it won't bother you that we "untermensch" still don't have full exercise of our rights once YOU become one of the "ubermensch"?

So, as long as you are one of the elite, the struggle of the underclass won't bother you, is that what you're admitting is likely to happen if/when you become LEO?

Not what I said or meant at all.

To clarify, if I was an LEO, I would be apalled that they want to deny me the right to do what I can do elsewhere,

but,

as a resident of a state where civilians are not allowed to CCW, I am not going to go to bat for someone else's right that I don't even posess.

I am certain that as an LEO, plenty of things that I can do but my friends cannot will bother me. But I am certainly not going to NOT carry out of some kind of protest for the unfairness to others. That would be irresponsible to my family.

And people wonder why so many here take a dim view of law enforcement personnel. Ya know, taking the actions or opinions of someone who is NOT yet a cop, (Like me,) and then letting that form your opinion of LEOs is intellectually lazy. Ignoring for a minute that you put words into my mouth, I am hardly represntative of LEOs as a whole.

There are far deeper issues that cause the dim view of LEOs.

mitchshrader
June 2, 2005, 03:59 PM
Let us admit that the thickness of the crowd MIGHT affect what's sensible? I've been in state fairs, and a thoughtless person with a package of firecrackers isn't unthinkable.

Were I carrying in a large crowd, and suddenly heard loud noises and screams, my actions thereafter wouldn't necessarily be entirely safe (for members of that crowd)..
mistakes do get made, and i'm not immune from them.

And I'm careful, mature, have a bit of training, and don't drink ..

Some more impulsive sort, with perhaps a beer or two aboard and scant life experience would arguably be even less safe.

While I can see the idea as an insult to off duty officers, BY GOD I'd rather be insulted than interred.

Considering the circumstances, ANY carrying might NOT be the safer alternative, from the event promoters perspective.

Now, in all fairness, were I involved in said decision, I'd try to explain myself very clearly, and quite possibly offer discount tickets, and not weasel about it.. how the policy was formed isn't clear, nor who formed it, and it would cost little to try to mitigate perceived insult.

If the fair has gone so far as to install metal detectors, then at least Someone thinks there's a real danger .. While that might be a strong arguement for extra security, and MORE official presence, I can certainly understand the idea that anyone (not in uniform) seen with a firearm would be presumed dangerous.

Reflexive assertion of ''rights'' should be tempered with deliberate effort to see not only 'the other side' but 'the big picture'. Sez me..

jnojr
June 2, 2005, 06:14 PM
Living in a state where the LEOs get to enjoy more of their constitutional rights than I do mine, I could give a hoot about the Del Mar fair. In fact, good on 'em for evening it up a little bit.

If they can get away with keeping active LEOs from carrying, what do you suppose the chances of a "peon" with a CCW ever being able to carry?

This is a stupid decision, and needs to be changed.

Now ask me next year, when I might be an LEO, and I bet I will have a different perspective on this issue, but as one of the untermensch right now, it is just fine by me.

I'm in the hiring process right now, and could take the same attitude. But wrong is wrong. And stupid is stupid.

riverdog
June 2, 2005, 08:13 PM
Living in San Diego I could care less about the Del Mar Fair, didn't go last year or the year before and I won't attend this year. BTW, Roger Hedgecock (previously a SD mayor and currently a conservative radio host) has a CA CCW and he can't carry at the Fair either -- he's pissed. It's not just off duty LEO's, it's all CCW. The guy running the Fair who made this decision is an idiot IMO.

That said, regardless of their policy on CCW, I won't be attending so this is one boycott I can support without hesitation.

NavyDoc
June 2, 2005, 08:54 PM
"Har har. How is this a useful contribution to the discussion?

San Diego has about 14 military installations and loads of former servicemembers, making it one of the least "blue" of all the metro areas in CA.

Assembleyman LaSuer and Congressman Cunningham are both representing San Diego CA, and trying to reverse the retarded firearms laws we have now. Seeing as how Cali is one of the front lines in the RKBA battle, ditchin SD would hurt the cause, not help it."


All that military in the area. All on the front line of the WOT, and not a single one can CCW.....
I'm sorry, but I can't support someone considered "superior" to myself.

O.F.Fascist
June 2, 2005, 08:57 PM
I'm not in California and as such I have no plans to to visit the fair, consider me boycotting it. :D

10shooter
June 2, 2005, 11:50 PM
Double Naught Spy Section 30.06 of the Texas penal code is in referance to carry conceal permit holders not peace officers on the do's and don'ts of trespass notices and do not carry in here postings. No carry signs in Texas do not effect peace officers. Many agencies and states require a peace officer on or off duty to respond to a felony or breach of the peace committed in their view. This is why some agencies consider their officers kind of on duty at all times. Unarmed in the presence of a violent felony being committed may make me just a good witness to not a stopper of.
On occupational discrimination when you say no carry conceal but are referencing a bit of the penal code covering carry conceal holders and not peace officers then say well for us that means you.
The question is in California does the laws covering off duty carry by officers give city/counties or other entities the ability to bar officer carry.
Sure my county could pass a rule barring all minorities from walking outside at night but it couldn't be enforced, because its not legal.

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