CA: Two bills to BAN HANDGUNS to be voted on THIS WEEK!!!


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Beethoven
June 2, 2005, 01:57 PM
If you live in CA, you had damn well better call, write, fax, email, etc.

EVEN IF YOU DO NOT LIVE IN CA, MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD BECAUSE IT IS A FACT THAT LEGISLATION THAT STARTS IN CA SPREADS TO THE REST OF THE COUNTRY, LIKE THE .50 BMG BAN!!!

Calling, writing letters and faxing letters is MUCH more effective than emailing because it is more tangible.

ANYWAY,

The deadline for voting on SB 357 and AB 352 is THIS FRIDAY, JUNE 3. EACH BILL WILL ESSENTIALLY AND EFFECTIVELY BAN HANDGUNS IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA.


Click here for info on both bills and for contact info:


http://nramemberscouncils.com/legs.shtml#contactinfo



EVEN IF YOU DO NOT LIVE IN CA, PLEASE CALL, WRITE, FAX, AND EMAIL BECAUSE LEGISLATION THAT STARTS HERE WILL SPREAD TO THE REST OF THE COUNTRY, LIKE THE .50 BMG BAN!!!

If you enjoyed reading about "CA: Two bills to BAN HANDGUNS to be voted on THIS WEEK!!!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Omni04
June 2, 2005, 02:13 PM
wow, do you have any e-mail addresses we might be able to spam? :)

or any contact information for that matter?

dasmi
June 2, 2005, 02:16 PM
Click the link.

WT
June 2, 2005, 02:24 PM
I just now read SB357. It deals with serialized handgun ammunition.

IT DOES NOT BAN HANDGUNS!

A little truthfulness would be appreciated.

Beethoven
June 2, 2005, 02:26 PM
I just now read SB357. It deals with serialized handgun ammunition.

IT DOES NOT BAN HANDGUNS!

A little veracity would be appreciated.


No, but it will effectively ban handgun ammunition in the state.

What good are guns without ammo?

It's the latest gun control tactic; "sure, you can have your guns, but not any ammo for them."

I guess guns without bullets do make pretty cool paperweights. :rolleyes:

Beethoven
June 2, 2005, 03:13 PM
Bump.

R.H. Lee
June 2, 2005, 03:14 PM
Hyperbole. Makes you sound like a liberal. Roll over, Beethoven :p

torpid
June 2, 2005, 04:19 PM
These bills would also LEAVE YOU AND YOUR FAMILY DEFENSELESS AGAINST ROBOT ATTACKS!!!

(This post sponsored by Old Glory Insurance)

.

thorn726
June 2, 2005, 04:20 PM
AB 352=

i dont get that one- all it says is it repeals the AWB provisions- what does that end up meaning?????????

as far as the microstamping= uh yeah it doesnt make guns illegal, just nearly impossible to afford, plus what is the deal with older guns in this scenario??
surrender? i dont get it at all. ludicrous. especially got to love the govt creating a monopoly for the companty making the stamping technology

dolanp
June 2, 2005, 04:48 PM
They can't have the guns yet so they are gonna take the Chris Rock approach.

Skunkabilly
June 2, 2005, 04:54 PM
I've seen one of these serialized bullets.

I haven't figured out how it'll stop crime.

jefnvk
June 2, 2005, 05:22 PM
While the bills are not good, it would be nice if a little more truthful definiton was being used. Makes you sound like a Florida liberal screaming 'Everyone's got a license to kill!'.

rick_reno
June 2, 2005, 06:01 PM
These bills would also LEAVE YOU AND YOUR FAMILY DEFENSELESS AGAINST ROBOT ATTACKS!!!

Not me. I'm seat belted to my chair, making me safe from robot attacks. A small rabid animal could get me, but not once I erect my SRAS (small rabid animal screen). Homeland security has plans online, and they're free.

El Rojo
June 2, 2005, 06:22 PM
According to the NRA link, AB 352 just failed 33 to 30, but SB 357 passed out of the Senate and is heading to the Assembly. I am going to call my reps in 30 mintues when class is over.

Crap! My assemblyman (Dean Florez) got elected to the Senate and I thought I was still in his district. Turns out I am not! I am in Roy Ashburn's district. Ooops! Florez voted no anyway. I am sure Ashburn and McCarthy did too, but I am checking for us.

Their computers are down, but both of the aides told me they both probably voted no. I thanked them and told them I would continue to support them. If they didn't vote no, I was going to raise some hell. The aide at Ashburn's office said, "We will take that into consideration that you will raise some hell if we voted yes." I said thank you.

MrTuffPaws
June 2, 2005, 07:11 PM
I just sent my critters email. One was returned, so I have to call the office now. Thanks for bringing my eyes to AB 352. It is even more stupid that SB 357.

jefnvk
June 2, 2005, 07:43 PM
That link above says both passed

6/2/05 - AB 352 passed the Assembly by the minimum 41 votes. Stay tund for Senate committee assignments.
6/2/05 - SB357 passed out of the Senate (with the minimum required 21 Ayes) and now moves to the Assembly. Standby for committee scheduling information

BTW, anyone else happen to notice the coincidential numbering of 357? Kinda like those Texas 30-06 signs?

Beethoven
June 2, 2005, 07:47 PM
Bump.

Beethoven
June 2, 2005, 07:50 PM
To all those who criticize me of hyperbole, I ask you to answer this simple question:

What good are guns without ammunition?

WT
June 2, 2005, 08:17 PM
Gimme' a break.

El Rojo
June 2, 2005, 08:42 PM
Someone at the NRA needs to get their act straight. I know for a fact it said that AB 352 failed 33 to 30 at approximately 1430 hours until about 1515 hours when I left work. So now it passed eh? Great. We need to get ready to hit up the governator.

tyme
June 2, 2005, 08:55 PM
beethoven, I don't think you'd be getting flak if you wrote "...two bills that effectively ban handguns..."

As written, the title implies that both bills explicitly ban handguns.

El Rojo, is it possible they pulled some shenanigans and called for a re-vote, you know, like one of those re-votes where the democrats vote for their absent colleagues?

Jim Diver
June 2, 2005, 09:06 PM
Someone at the NRA needs to get their act straight. I know for a fact it said that AB 352 failed 33 to 30 at approximately 1430 hours until about 1515 hours when I left work.


Its not the NRA's fault this time (cept they did little to notify PRK members). The problem is that if a bill fails on the floor, they can call it up over and over and over again till it passes. And they get to run around and ghost vote as well.

It's a lethal flaw in the system.

dasmi
June 2, 2005, 09:22 PM
Response from John Campbell
Senator 35th District


Senator Campbell
<Senator.Campbell@sen.ca.gov> to me
More options 4:34 pm (45 minutes ago)

Thank you for your recent letter regarding SB 357 (Dunn) which would require handgun ammunition, by July 1, 2007, to be marked with a unique identifier that will be recorded and maintained in a database managed by the Department of Justice (DOJ). I understand your concerns.

SB 357 is currently in the Senate. I believe this bill will have a harmful impact on current law enforcement efforts as well as the manufacturers of ammunition used by our nation's armed services and local law enforcement agencies.

Criminals will easily defeat the technology. As with 'ballistic imaging,' criminals can and will easily defeat the 'micro-stamping' technology by simply filing away or scratching with a steel/wire brush the surface of the firearm where the laser engraving has been placed. Criminals will do this for the same reason they deface the serial number on firearms to avoid detection by law enforcement. Criminals will be able to confuse the police and send them on 'wild goose' chases by simply throwing around at crime scenes expended cartridge casings (having a make model and serial number imprinted on them) from other firearms.

Mandating this technology will dramatically increase the price of firearms for all consumers, including municipalities and the State of California purchasing firearms for law enforcement agencies. This is because firearms for the civilian, law enforcement and military markets are all manufactured at the same time on the same machines using the same equipment and manufacturing processes. The cost would have to be spread across all products in all markets necessarily resulting in significantly higher prices for all products.

For these reasons, I expect to oppose SB 357 if it comes to a vote in the Senate.

You may follow the process of this bill or any other legislation by logging onto the Senate Web Page at www.senate.ca.gov; clicking on 'Legislation' on the left hand toolbar and following instructions from there.

John Campbell
Senator 35th District

Jim Diver
June 2, 2005, 09:39 PM
John Campbell... Not a hopeful letter... He does not even know what the bill does!!!

As with 'ballistic imaging,' criminals can and will easily defeat the 'micro-stamping' technology by simply filing away or scratching with a steel/wire brush the surface of the firearm where the laser engraving has been placed. Criminals will do this for the same reason they deface the serial number on firearms to avoid detection by law enforcement.

***???? SB 357 has nothing to do with microstamping firearms....

RevDisk
June 2, 2005, 09:42 PM
John Campbell... Not a hopeful letter... He does not even know what the bill does!!!

Uh, Jim? Is there an overwhelming need to correct his views if he is already opposed to the bill anyways? ;)

El Rojo
June 2, 2005, 10:07 PM
The problem is that if a bill fails on the floor, they can call it up over and over and over again till it passes. And they get to run around and ghost vote as well.Quite true. This is probably what happened.

John Campbell... Not a hopeful letter... He does not even know what the bill does!!!They are all confused between the two. I think if they are willing to vote no, then that is good enough for us. It doesn't matter which one it is.

Jim Diver
June 2, 2005, 10:11 PM
Maybe I am expecting too much for the legis-critter to know what he is voting for or against..... So much for informed decision making.

shermacman
June 2, 2005, 10:19 PM
Beethoven
Let me help here: Remember in the Superman show when the bad guy dumped six rounds from his wheel gun? The bullets bounced off of Superman's chest. Now the dangerous part, the bad guy throws the unloaded gun at Superman and Superman ducks!!!

A gun with out ammo is enough to scare Superman. That is enough for me!

Seriously, Beethoven is absolutely right, these two bills are ridiculous, it will make ammo prohibitively expensive, it won't stop criminals, and it looks like they passed. We have a lot of work to do.

jefnvk
June 2, 2005, 11:32 PM
I'd give the guy a break. The two bills are a few numbers apart, and roughly do the same thing.

MrTuffPaws
June 2, 2005, 11:33 PM
So, does anyone know the actual status of these.

Jim Diver
June 3, 2005, 02:09 AM
A pack of lies........

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/06/02/state/n163128D57.DTL


(06-02) 16:31 PDT SACRAMENTO, (AP) --


Dueling proposals to identify handgun bullets to help police solve shootings were approved by state lawmakers Thursday, despite concerns the requirements are impractical or would harm law-abiding citizens.


Ammunition manufacturers would be required to laser-cut each bullet with a serial number under the Senate bill, while the Assembly version requires guns to stamp identification numbers on bullet casings each time they are fired.


"With a simple magnifying glass (police) can read that identifying number ... and determine who purchased that ammunition," said Sen. Joseph Dunn, D-Garden Grove, who is carrying the Senate version. "This is a tremendous benefit for law enforcement."


The Senate sent the measure to the Assembly on a 21-14 vote, while the Assembly proposal by Assemblyman Paul Koretz, D-West Hollywood, passed 41-37 despite heavy opposition from gun groups. Both passed by one vote.


Ammunition manufacturers said that Dunn's bill will either force them to abandon the lucrative California market or force them to install unaffordable technology to mark the 8 billion bullets they make each year.


The bill would punish anyone possessing unmarked ammunition outside their home after July 2007, though Dunn said he is working with law enforcement to amend the bill so owners could use older bullets at firing ranges.


"A law abiding citizen has nothing to fear," said Sen. Jack Scott, D-Pasadena, comparing the markings to the use of fingerprints or DNA in crime solving.


Dunn's bill would require purchasers to pay up to a halfpenny per bullet to fund record-keeping by the state Department of Justice on every handgun-caliber bullet made or sold in California. Vendors would pay up to $50 a year to register. Rifle ammunition would be exempted, though some calibers are used in both handguns and long guns.


Opponents of Koretz's bill said criminals could file down the guns to remove the microstamping or use revolvers, which don't eject shell casings.


Assemblyman Todd Spitzer, R-Orange, said Koretz' bill would make it easier to frame someone by spreading cartridges around a crime scene that hadn't come from the shooter's gun.


"In some criminal prosecutions, the only evidence linking a defendant to that murder is shell casings, nothing more," Spitzer said.


Koretz said much of the opponents' arguments were "dead wrong," including the claim that someone would be able to file off the microstamping.


"This will work almost perfectly," Koretz said. "Every casing will have a number that's tied to a database."


___


On the Net:


Read SB357 and AB352 at www.leginfo.ca.gov


Attorney general's office: www.ag.ca.gov


California Rifle and Pistol Association:


www.crpa.org

Kevlarman
June 3, 2005, 03:26 AM
"This will work almost perfectly," Koretz said.

What the hell does that mean? It's like a woman being "a little bit pregnant."

If people can get fake license plates to stick on their car to commit crimes, what makes them think that the same can't be done with random shell casings?

Beethoven
June 3, 2005, 01:05 PM
Morning bump.

Beethoven
June 3, 2005, 04:57 PM
:scrutiny:

MrTuffPaws
June 3, 2005, 05:25 PM
Oh Fing great. Now we have to deal with the Democrat in Republican clothes Arnold. He will sign these to into law, no doubt.

Vodka7
June 3, 2005, 06:57 PM
Do you guys really have to pick apart a typo to mock this guy? It's obvious from the very next sentence that he knows exactly what this bill does:

"Criminals will be able to confuse the police and send them on 'wild goose' chases by simply throwing around at crime scenes expended cartridge casings (having a make model and serial number imprinted on them) from other firearms."

Cut him some slack for using firearm twice in the sentence instead of cartridge the first time and firearm the second time.

And he actually brings up a good point... Spend some time at the range picking up expended cartridges in your caliber of choice and throw them all around the crime scene. Now cops have dozens of leads they have to follow through on even though it's guaranteed at best only one or two may possibly pan out at all.

Gordon Fink
June 3, 2005, 08:15 PM
Now we have to deal with the Democrat in Republican clothes Arnold. He will sign these to into law, no doubt.

I doubt he will sign them, but if he does

~G. Fink :uhoh:

MikeHaas
June 4, 2005, 12:25 AM
>>Someone at the NRA needs to get their act straight. I know for a fact it said that AB 352 failed 33 to 30 at approximately 1430 hours until about 1515 hours when I left work.

Hello. I'm the person that updates
http://nramemberscouncils.com/legs.shtml The information was accurate - the bill was defeated twice before it finally passed the Assembly on the 3rd vote.

>Its not the NRA's fault this time (cept they did little to notify PRK members).

Well, we used the ILA voice-mail system, the ILA grassroots alert system, the state CAL-ERTS system, and the state webpage (sometimes updated more than one in a day). I personally received both voice-recorded phone calls and emails from Fairfax, and CAL-ERTs from the state website. I updated our state webpage almost every day, sometimes several times/day, whenever the stituation changes, (changing the time-stamp in the top-right corner). We provide a "IMPORT" tool that displays abridged (but LIVE!) CA legislative info on any website with only a few lines of HTML (see http://nramemberscouncils.com/importlegs.shtml). Your NRA lobbyist was at the capitol every day, sometimes well past midnight, passing e-signals to the NRA Members' Council activists even at that late hour for targeted emails and phone calls.

On the state site, we provide the ONE-CLICK system as well as comprehensive contact info for each lawmaker. We try to focus members on those bills that can be affected the most at any moment (so that effort isn't wasted).

NRA members can get closer to this ring of activity by joining your local NRA Members' Council (it's free), this tool will identify yours...
http://nramemberscouncils.com/volunteer/

If you have any suggestions as to how we can reach more gun-owners, let us know at:
http://nramemberscouncils.com/msg/

Mike Haas
NRA Benefactor Member, volunteering as...
Electronic Communications Director, NRA Members' Councils of California
http://NRAMembersCouncils.com/
President, NRA Members' Council of West Contra Costa County
Owner and Author, http://AmmoGuide.com/
------------------------------------
You may enjoy some of my personal web sites...
------------------------------------
http://NRAWinningTeam.com/
http://PatriotBoxers.com/
http://NRAMembersCouncils.com/lifeclock/

MikeHaas
June 4, 2005, 04:33 AM
BTW folks, June 3rd was an important deadline.

Every year, to become law that year, bills MUST pass out of their house of origin by a certain date. This year that deadline was June 3rd.

So as of today, "AB" bills that didn't make it out of the Assembly and "SB" bills that didn't make it out of the Senate, are dead for the year. The best they can do is to be converted to what's called a "two-year bill", which means they can come back next year to try again.

If one of these "dead for the year" bills fails to become a "two-year bill" (for example, the author doesn't ask for it), it is dead permanently (well, dead as a bill number - the same language could resurface under another bill number - called "gut & amend".)

So expect a lot of bills listed at:
http://nramemberscouncils.com/legs.shtml to become "inactive" very soon (those that didn't pass their house of origin). I'm in the process of verifying the details with CA NRA staff now (they verify everything that's posted).

TO STAY TUNED TO THE LATEST...
http://nramemberscouncils.com/legs.shtml
(watch the "Last Updated" timestamp top-right)

TO VOLUNTEER WITH CA NRA...
http://nramemberscouncils.com/volunteer/

TO DISPLAY LIVE CA LEGISLATIVE INFO ON *YOUR* WEBSITE...
http://nramemberscouncils.com/importlegs.shtml

TO SIGNUP TO RECEIVE "CAL-ERTs"...
http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/calerts-signup/

Thanks,

Mike Haas

PS. While the bills that DID just switch houses are assigned to committees, you won't see ONE-CLICK links assigned at http://nramemberscouncils.com/legs.shtml for them yet. But as we learn where they are, and NRA wants us to target opposition to the bad bills and support for the good one, you will see them appear there in the "Action Needed" column.

Jim Diver
June 4, 2005, 07:19 AM
Your NRA lobbyist was at the capitol every day, sometimes well past midnight, passing e-signals to the NRA Members' Council activists even at that late hour for targeted emails and phone calls.


You know, I am gonna have say something that you may not like. I think the NRA lobbyist should be relieved and replaced. He clearly is not getting results. Two of the most distructive bills I have ever seen are very close to passing and going to the gov. No logical person would vote for these bills. If he is not capable of getting the results we want, he should be fired. Ed's list of failures is getting longer and longer every year and the list of victories is non-existant.

The NRA is supposedly the most powerful lobby is existance, I think we should be getting better resutlts.

Sorry, but as a member of the NRA, I expect results.

seed
June 4, 2005, 07:55 AM
You know, I am gonna have say something that you may not like. I think the NRA lobbyist should be relieved and replaced. He clearly is not getting results. Two of the most distructive bills I have ever seen are very close to passing and going to the gov. No logical person would vote for these bills. If he is not capable of getting the results we want, he should be fired. Ed's list of failures is getting longer and longer every year and the list of victories is non-existant.

The NRA is supposedly the most powerful lobby is existance, I think we should be getting better resutlts.

Sorry, but as a member of the NRA, I expect results.


I hate to say it on this forum, but the NRA is not even close to being the most powerful lobby in the U.S. It is powerful, but I would rank it at around #4 at the very highest (and that's being generous)...and a distant 4th from the top three. Be that as it may, I feel your frustration. It seems as if the NRA has given up on Kali and is saving its strength for what it considers winnable fronts. As it is, if these bills pass, the fight is basically over and a gun ban for average law-abiding Kali citizens will essentially be in place. And if manufacturers actually grab their ankles and make guns and or ammo which comply with these potential mandates, the costs will be so high for these Big Brother items, that it will be like a tariff for Kali citizens.

Meanwhile, never mind filing off serial numbers or serial number imprinters...criminals can just as easily go across state lines and buy and or sell ammo to other criminals who won't be as concerned about violating the new laws against carrying unstamped ammo as they would about getting caught for murder if they should use Kali-special guns/ammo. End result, no crime will be solved with these laws. But that was never the point anyway, was it?

The_Antibubba
June 4, 2005, 08:46 AM
"This will work almost perfectly," Koretz said. "Every casing will have a serial number that's tied to a database">

A database that this state cannot afford to set up or enforce. Kali can't even afford to fix the roads or the schools. Those programs would be huge, and the money to run them would not likely pass a budget.

And a different database for each bill.

El Rojo
June 4, 2005, 10:38 AM
Thanks for the explination Mike.

If you really want to be effective in lobbying in this state, you need to support the CRPA and maybe Gun Owners of California more than the NRA. No offense to the NRA, I am a Friends of the NRA Chairman, but just look at it practically, the NRA deals with 50 states and they know we are pretty much screwed here. If you really want to get the most bang for your buck, join the CRPA and/or GOC in additional to your NRA membership.

Part of the problem isn't so much that the NRA is failing its job, but that this state is so far gone, there is nothing we can do. When your representative is a bleeding heart that thinks guns are evil, how are you going to change that? Vote against them is about it, but you are hopelessly outnumbered. Sorry, but sometimes in the PRK we are just plain screwed.

Our best bet of defeating these items now lies with Arnold. He vetoed the ammo tax before, he might veto these as well. We need to make him aware that if he signs these in, he will not receive our votes again and he needs us. And save the I voted for McClintock rhetoric, it is a dead horse.

rick_reno
June 4, 2005, 10:56 AM
It seems as if the NRA has given up on Kali and is saving its strength for what it considers winnable fronts.

I don't believe this is a recent event - from what I observed in living there in the 80's and 90's they gave up on Kalif after Roos-Roberti was passed. I think Kalif remains a good cash cow for the NRA, but they're not going to expend limited resources there.

Old Fuff
June 4, 2005, 11:46 AM
I understand the frustrations of California gun-owners, and the implications these bills will have if they become laws on the rest of us. Certainly anti-gun advocates in other states will try to pick up the ball and run with it.

But frankly, there isn't much the NRA can do when the California Legislature is absolutely dominated by the most left of left-wing Democrats. The legislators in question come from districts where they are absolutely safe when it comes to being re-elected. Put bluntly, urban California is perhaps the most sheeple/nanny-state part of this country that there is. I think it is proper that the NRA's limited resources be expended where there is a chance of winning.

California isn't that place.

On the other hand, some lobbying at the governor's office may do some good. We will all hope so.

BenW
June 4, 2005, 12:14 PM
But frankly, there isn't much the NRA can do when the California Legislature is absolutely dominated by the most left of left-wing Democrats.
What Old Fluff said. There is only so much the NRA or any gun rights organization can do given the circumstances of our Legislature and the makeup of our state voter base. The NRA could spend $100 million dollars to fight a proposed CA bill, but no matter how much they spend, they're not going to convince a San Francisco liberal to vote against that gun control bill anymore than Don Perada is going to convince me to vote for a tax increase to fund higher welfare payments.

The best thing any gun rights organization can do is get the word out to gun owners and those who believe in personal freedom. Even then it's at some point up to the individual to actually get out there and write letters and make phone calls (something I could be better at) and vote. If every gun owner that I have heard griping in the line to get into the gun show actually got out there and made his or her voice heard and voted, it would make an incredible difference for the state.

Lastly, I have to say that the NRA does a great job of letting us know what goes on in the state. There have been a couple of times when I've gotten three NRA-ILA Alert updates in the same day. Every Alert has a link to a really nice website that has contact info for all your Representatives, as well as a quick and easy way to email them. If you're not getting these alerts, then you either deactivated them (why?) or you're not a member of the NRA (why not, especially in CA?)

Ben -- NRA Life, CRPA, GOA

MikeHaas
June 4, 2005, 08:05 PM
Information updated, as promised:

http://NRAMembersCouncils.com/legs.shtml

BTW, of all the groups mentioned, the NRA MCs are 100% volunteer (run by us and you if you join, the NRA membership) and the only group that holds monthly meetings in over 25 areas across the Golden State...
http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/mc/directory/

Ever been to one? Everyone else takes membership dues, but have ZERO meetings - ever. The MCs don't have a membership fee either - just be an NRA member and registered to vote. We need you!

The MCs are an excellent vehicle to get more involved HANDS ON in these issues and actually accomplish something. Find out your local group and be more than a shooter, complainer and money sponge at:
http://nramemberscouncils.com/volunteer/

NRA needs a Second Amendment Army in California. We made one. Now we all benefit by making it as strong as possible.

Mike Haas

Surefire
June 5, 2005, 02:28 PM
This is absurb. You serial stamp the shell casing, and all someone has to do is put your shells at a crime scene to frame you. Since shell casings fly all over at gun ranges, this isn't far fetched, a BG can collect shell casings from other guns and then use them at the next crime he commits. Use revolvers after this passes, until the kind Nazis find a way to ban revolvers.


Further, how do you dispose of the shell casings after using at the range? You throw them away, and some bastard might find them in the garbage and then use them against you later (frame job). Do you send them to the police department to be destroyed?

Even serial numbering the bullets is absurb. All someone has to do is steal bullets from a law abiding owner, and then the owner is SOL.


As far as stamping each bullet as it is shot, that will prove very expensive to make, and even less reliable in the field IMO.


All TERRIBLE ideas, and another step to disarming the good folks of California.

Beethoven
June 7, 2005, 01:40 PM
Bump.

Both bills passed.

SB 357 passed into the Assembly, and AB 352 passed into the senate.

:cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :cuss:

jnojr
June 7, 2005, 06:05 PM
Ever been to one? Everyone else takes membership dues, but have ZERO meetings - ever. The MCs don't have a membership fee either - just be an NRA member and registered to vote. We need you!

+1

I went to the San Diego NRA-MC meeting last month. There was maybe 15 people there. They said it was the biggest turnout they'd had in years.

Alex45ACP
June 7, 2005, 06:19 PM
Any form of gun control is only another stepping stone to the confiscation of all civilian owned firearms, so technically the thread starter was right :o

As to this stupid idea of stamping serial number on cartridges, are they going to ban metal files next? :rolleyes:

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