[IMtheNRA]

Hello, I just started reloading last week. I'm using Berry's plated 200-gr bullets with 5.6 to 5.7 grains of W-231, CCI primers. The rounds are 1.205 to 1.211 long.

Obviously, there is still some slop in my setup since I still have the cheap caliper and scale, so I can't be exactly sure of the numbers. I've got the good equipment ordered.

Last night, while firing about 50 rounds, I had two failures to feed in my Glock-21-C. Both times the live round was jammed, very hard, into the front of the magazine. I had to drop the mag and push the round to the back of the magazine to clear the malfunctions. I suspect that the problem is that they may be too short. While I can easily lengthen the rounds to match the length of my commercial ammo, I wonder if that is all it takes.

How long can I make them and still have enough of the bullet in the case to keep it from falling out? Are there any issues with pressure, etc, that must be addressed when I lengthen the finished round?

(Edited to fix OAL typo)

[HSMITH]

Well, I am gonna guess that the 2.1 is a typo, and that you meant 1.1", doing so because a 45 ACP will not make 2" long with 500 grain bullets. OK for the 1.05-1.1" that is awfully short. I load ALL my 45 ACP at 1.18-1.25". I wonder how many cycling problems are from too short OAL compared to long OAL......

Longer means LOWER pressure if everything else stays the same. It means lower every time in that case too. You can go out until the rounds are physically too long to fit in the magazines and still get a crimp, max OAL for 45 ACP is 1.25" so you should stay under that. If you lengthen and lower pressure too much you may have some trouble cycling, a good load can become a very light load in some circumstances. If that happens up the powder charge, staying within published limits of course.

Jammed into the front of the magazine does not sound like an OAL problem though to me. You can try the OAL and see if it helps, it certainly won't hurt to experiment a little, but it sounds like a bad magazine to me. A magazine with the feed lips at too flat an angle when compared to the bore axis will do what you have, in other words there is not enough UP angle on the round in the magazine to clear the point over the forward end of the mag. If this mag has been flawless with other loads that included HP loads and SWC loads ignore the feed lip theory.

I have seen some guns do what you have if the power is very marginally above the power needed to cycle. How far are the casings ejecting out of the gun? If only a couple inches to a foot of horizontal ejection up the power of the loads some. If a foot + that is not it either.

[IMtheNRA]

Hello HSMITH. You're right, that was a major typo.

My rounds are 1.205 to 1.211 long. Maybe it is the used .45 Lee dies I have, or I'm seating the bullets crooked, but I just can't get consistent length.

The magazine is flawless with all other ammo and the spring is good. In fact, these two malfunctions are the first I've ever had with this gun.

The load is not light, since I increased the charge from 5.2 to 5.6/5.7 grains of W-231 and the brass ejects normally.

It looks like I have quite a bit to go until I reach max OAL, so I think that I should start by making the rounds longer.

[motorep]

1.250 for SWC 200 gr bullets. One thing you haven't addressed is the crimp. If you don't taper crimp the rounds they're not going to feed properly/consistently.

[IMtheNRA]

I don't have the crimp die, just the three that came in the Lee set. Based on what I've read here, the crimping die is not required for pistol cartridges. Besides, I don't see any crimp on the factory loads.

If I'm wrong, please let me know. I'm just beginning to learn about reloading.

What are the benefits of the "factory crimp die" like the ones that Lee makes?

[Master Blaster]

In the three die set you have the seating die (last one you use) puts a taper crimp on the case.

Normal dimensions for a .45 acp: .474 diameter at the case web (towards the bullet just forward of the extractor groove), tapers to .471 at the case mouth.

I load 4.5 gr W231 with a 200 lswc, OAL is 1.258, they work reliably in all of my 1911's with a standard 16.5lb spring, and even in my officers acp with a 24lb spring.

A previous poster with a glock 21 reported that 5.6 gr w231 was needed to cycle his glock reliably, so my light target load may not work in your glock.

Reloading can be lots of fun :D

[HSMITH]

Don't sweat .005" variation in OAL, for that matter don't sweat .010" variation as long as it does not go below the minimum. You are not good enough nor is your glock to see the accuracy difference 10 thou seating variation is going to make. Lee dies are FINE, and there is no way to screw them up really. You may be having some trouble with the seating being crooked if the seater plug (inside the die, part that actually pushes the bullet down) is for a round nose profile and you are using a SWC or vice versa. Even so, it is not a big deal usually, and the ammo should run fine unless terribly crooked.

Sorry, but in my post above I left out a digit. Max OAL length for 45 ACP is 1.27 5, not 1.25. Just shows the need to verify ALL data.

I agree with moto, I load 200gr SWC at 1.25 OAL, regardless of what gun they go in. I have not tried them in a Glock, I do not know anyone with a lead safe barrel in their Glock 45. I have tried them in a dozen other 45's at least, and no one has had trouble so long as a stock or lighter recoil spring was used. I do load them a bit light.

Edit for grammar.

[larryw]

Loading West Coast Bullets 200 gr, both SWC and RN, I load to 1.250". I've loaded as long as 1.265", but found one of my guns didn't feed 100%.

Use caution when going shorter (could that be why your primers are showing pressure signs?).

I don't sweat the couple thousandth's variance in COL. If I did, I'd load them one at a time on a single stage press instead of 500/hr on my 550.

As to crimp, as a general rule with 45 loads, you just want to remove the bell so they feed right. If you crimp the case into the bullet it will have a negative effect on accuracy.

[IMtheNRA]

OK, I took your advise and I just loaded up a test batch with an OAL of 1.270-1.273, leaving everything else the same.

The case mouth is still at .471 to .472 and at the web it is .472 to .473 These measurements are really consistent for all of my brass.

Hopefully, I'll be able to sneak to the range late tonight to try
them.

Mater Blaster - I AM that user who has to load with 5.6/5.7 grains of W-231 to get reliable functioning in my G-21-C I went there from 5.2/5.3 grains which produced loads that did not eject.

larryw - regarding the pressure signs, are you refering to my other post about shallow firing pin indentations in the primers on my WinClean cases? In my test batch, I also loaded a bunch of WinClean brass, so I'll see if the added length helps make these indentations normal.

[BigG]

I believe mine are 1.25" You do not need to crimp, just make sure the seating die takes any bell or flare off the case mouth and it should be good to go. HTH

[larryw]

Whoops, sorry about that, shoulda been more clear. Yes, the WinClean brass post is what I was talking about. Bigger flash hole could ignite the powder faster leading to more pressure, but my experience with the WC brass hasn't shown that to be the case. Maybe the combo of the big flash hole and short COL is doing it. Worth looking into.

Your crimp sounds about right, key issue here is to knock down the lip and make sure they feed OK.

My experience has shown a longer 45 round to be more accurate (due to shorter jump to lands, like precision rifle?), but feeding in all my 45s requres a shorter COL. I hope your 1.27x cartridges feed OK.

[BenW]

In my Colts I can go 1.270 and never have a feeding problem (though I generally keep it at 1.250). In my Springfields, I'm loading 1.235-1.240 OAL. This is with Lasercast 230grn LRNs. For some reason I was able to go to a longer OAL in the Springfields with Bulletmeister, but I like the Lasercasts better.

[stans]

Since bullet manufacturer's designs vary, I load 200 gr SWC in the 45 ACP with about 0.030" of the bullet shoulder exposed in front of the case mouth. I taper crimp rounds to about 0.470".

[Edward429451]

Well I used to load my lead flatnose for my colt at whatever fits in the mag, and they'd work good, usually up around 1.270ish.
Then I got my G21 and found it finiky to feed those. I kept reducing the COL until they finally worked with reliability, fell out at minimum 1.190 these are the 225 gr LFP's and they work in either gun now. Yes, the dreaded lead in a Glock. I've shot who know how many thousands of these with no KB's. Don't YOU do it, just that I have. (I've been to advanced pistol cleaning class:scrutiny: )

FWIW.

[tomr8368]

When I first started loading 45's I got a Lee Factory Crimp Die at a friend's suggestion after I told him of my feeding problem. Flawless feeding since then. Just my 2 cents. Since you just started I'd sure get a Speer or other good reloading manual. Don't let anyone know now because you know real men don't ask for advice or direction from anyone, much less a book. Beats getting blown up though, I recon.
Tom

[coonan357]

ITNRA , the lee factory crimp die taper crimps the shell and straightens out the case again to make sure it chambers , as for the primers showing signs of excessive pressure in the winclean cases this is normal , mine flaten out all the time I think its due to the surface area exposed to the expanding gases in the case from firing . the primers flattened out even on some very light #2aa loads I make for newbies .

[Master Blaster]

Yes I'mtheNRA, I realized that after I posted :rolleyes:

I'm going to disagree with folks about the crimp, you do need to crimp, and its also important that you do not overbell the case, just enough to keep the bullet upright and prevent tearing of the case when you seat.

Why is a TAPER (Not A roll crimp which your die will not do) crimp important on every semi auto round?

1. you dont want the bullet to push deeper into the case when it hits the feed ramp, because on a max load or near max like you are loading, it could raise pressures to a dangerous level (kaboom, depending on the powder and W231 is a moderately fast powder) even on the low pressure round like the .45 ACP.

2. A good TAPER crimp also insures reliable feeding and chambering and Consistant velocity/ accuracy.

My test on the taper crimp is to put the loaded round bullet down on the bench and push on the case head hard with my thumb, if the bullet moves deeper into the case, you need a tighter crimp OR less belling.

And with SWC its also important as mentioned to leave a bit of the shoulder above the case mouth to insure reliable feeding.

[Edward429451]

Occasionally, I've tested mine like described with my thumb, but against the bathroom scale to get a poundage reading.
Edited to add; I use 30 lbs test. Works for me.

[BenW]

I have to agree with Master Blaster. I think a proper taper crimp is VERY important to consistent feeding. I've done a lot of experimentation on my own on crimp versus no crimp, and there's a big difference in reliability using the same rounds in a variety of pistols. That being said, the caveat is that you make a good crimp, which I think everyone has to experiment to get.

[JPM70535]

When I load my own cast 200gr.lswc, I set the lenght at 1.240, using 185 jhp (Gold Dot) my finished rounds mic out at 1.219, and my 230 ball measures 1.265. I use 5.5 gr 231 for the LSWCs and all my 45s function just fine. Ditto 9 gr Bluedot with the 185 gold dot.

You definitely should taper crimp 45s because they have a bad habit of driviong themselves deeper into the cases on impact with the feed ramp. This could potentially cause a KB, and that you definitely don't want. Master Blasters method for checking the crimp works for me.

[blowsomethingup]

always let the rifling/bore dictate your col,use published data strickly for a starting point.
using the magazine should give you maximim col possible,but never use them this large,just for knowledge.
i usually use 1.200 for light bullets and 1.270 for heavy ones.

[GeneC]

I just emptied my magazine of Winchester factory loaded .45 round nose bullets and found that 2 were 2.32" and 2 were 2.24" and 2 were 1.94" and 2 were 1.84" and 2 were 1.64". why such a difference in OAL? Is this good/bad/ugly?

[larryw]

I think you need to measure again. To start with, none of those lengths will fit in the magazine (1.2750 is max length).

That said, a 3/4" difference is HUGE!!! Put in perspective, .010" difference in cartridge length is big, .750 is a different area code (where you'll find your fingers after pulling the trigger :what: ) . DangerDanger!! You can do that by chambering and then ejecting rounds, then doing it again; the bullet gets jammed deeper into the case. When this happens, pressure rises very quickly and things blow up.

[GeneC]

OK, upon remeasure with calipers, the longest is 1.238" and the shortest is 1.18".

[larryw]

230gr RN cartridges typically are 1.250 to 1.260" long. I wouldn't shoot the ones you have. Actually, DON'T SHOOT THEM! Ammo's cheap, new guns and body parts aren't.

Chamberinig and ejectiing cartridges will set the bullet deeper in the case; get yourself some snap caps for drills. ;)

[GeneC]

Ok, I won't shoot them. I'd put a new extractor in my Kimber and did run them thru to see how it worked. Had no idea it'd do that. I stood them up on a table and noticed some were shorter than others. So, what to do with these?

[larryw]

If you reload, you can take them apart, resize the case and reset the bullet. Otherwise, you can soak them in penetrating oil for a week or so to deactivate then bury, or give them to a local shooting range for safe disposal with the rest of the cartridges in the "dud box".

Regardless, good eye catching that! :)

[halvey]

1.255 for 185 gr SWC.

[gyp_c2]

Sometimes lead will get into the top of the cup that seats the bullet. When that happens, you'll get a different OAL. Also can be any type of powder, fuzz, whoknows what...Clean with alcohol or something similar that evaporates, leaving no residue of any kind.

OAL for 45ACP is 1.240-50...depending on the shape. Most all of the shapes will work inside that range.

As with all reloading, go slow and remain methodical and consistant for best, safest results.

Make sure your handle stroke goes to full-stop each time.
The newer Lee dies have a taper crimp built in. It is extremely important to at least get a good taper crimp to prevent the bullet from shifting deeper into the case. I recommend getting a nice inertial bullet puller to salvage components as you learn. It'll also encourage you to re-load the reload that may be suspect, instead of "test-firing" ...LOL...Do Not Shoot ANYTHING you didn't load yourself.
Stay safe...g2