Has anyone read the Taurus Warnings?


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JeremyIA
June 10, 2005, 11:19 AM
Check out the two Warnings at the bottom of Page 2 of the Taurus Owner's Manual!!!

Anyone ever notice this?

http://www.taurususa.com/pdf/pistol_manual.pdf

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CentralTexas
June 10, 2005, 11:24 AM
too funny!
Ct

dsb
June 10, 2005, 11:30 AM
For those too lazy to open a pdf and scan down :neener: :

WARNING:
Securing your firearm may inhibit access to it in a defense situation and
result in injury or death.
WARNING:
Failure to properly secure a firearm may result in injury or death.

A Cleaner
June 10, 2005, 11:33 AM
Darned if you do, darned if you don't.

Perfect example of covering all bases, even those diametrical in nature.

Old Fuff
June 10, 2005, 11:59 AM
Obviously written by a good lawyer looking out for his/her client ... :neener:

pax
June 10, 2005, 12:57 PM
Heh. I noticed those earlier this week.

Truth in advertising.

pax

During the mid-1980s dairy farmers decided there was too much cheap milk at the supermarket. So the government bought and slaughtered 1.6 million dairy cows. How come the government never does anything like this with lawyers? -- P. J. O'Rourke

bakert
June 10, 2005, 12:57 PM
Actually from what I've seen of people in my lifetime and the things they do, I would bet money there's more that a few souls out there right now confidently carrying their Taurus or maybe other brands of handguns with the action locked and the key in their pocket or maybe even at home. :eek:

Werewolf
June 10, 2005, 01:04 PM
CAUTION:
Never engage the Taurus Security System on your Taurus Pistol with the slide in the open (rearward) position. This will result in permanent damage to your firearm.
Hmmmmm...

Well that pretty much guarantees I'll never buy a Taurus semi-automatic pistol (I've got one of their revolvers - don't have a clue where the key is though). Maybe they need the extra revenue from repairing pistols damaged by those who actually use the stupid security system :banghead: but forget not to when the slide is open. :uhoh:

The Grand Inquisitor
June 10, 2005, 01:57 PM
I wouldn't be so hasty about staying away from Taurus' semi's and revolvers, I have one of their .38 special/.357 revolvers and a friend has at least 3 Taurus revolvers and one of the Berretta clones, and every last one of them function perfectly and shoot fantastic, especially my friends .44 Magnum, which is his most accurate revolver, and he really knows his revolvers.

I wouldn't put Taurus in the same leauge as Freedom Arms, but I would certainly buy a Taurus over Colt or Ruger revolver, not only because they tend to be a great value, but also because Taurus is a company who is friendly to its customers and has never sold them out to curry favor with the powers that be.

lwsimon
June 10, 2005, 02:49 PM
I dunno, I think the security system is a good idea. Not for a defense weapon, but if you have kids. Its just one more layer of security. The key is to only use it on guns you aren't actively using. IE, not in a safe or on your person. Ideally, you should have your gun on you at all time with kids.

Kharn
June 10, 2005, 03:16 PM
Their lock isnt as visible as the S&W one, when I get around to buying a revolver it will be a Taurus (I like my cousin's 650SS, might go for one myself).

Kharn

yorec
June 10, 2005, 04:01 PM
Gotta luv lawyerese... :rolleyes:

I don't even know where my Taurus "safety key" is. Good thing that lock isn't prone to backing out on it's own - I wonder if I locktited it in place long ago? :cool:

JeremyIA
June 10, 2005, 04:52 PM
I've only bought one gun with one of those assinine integral trigger locks. I had one problem with the trigger lock and I got rid of the gun. I will never buy a gun with an integral trigger lock. My Remington 597 failed to fire after I unlocked it. I had to lock it and unlock it again before it would fire. It was a recreational gun. I am glad I learned my lesson with a recreational gun before I bought a defensive gun with a similar feature.

Ruger is now bastardizing the Vaquero with this silly New Model that also has one of these silly key locks under the grip panel. I can "swallow" the concept of a transfer-bar safety on what is SUPPOSED to be a cowboy gun. Now I'll spend the extra money on a Colt before I buy one of these silly anachronisms called the Ruger Vaquero New Model.

I'll buy a Ruger SP-101 or a S&W 60 before I buy a Taurus. I like Taurus revolvers but I won't buy a gun with an integral lock.

Bainx
June 10, 2005, 07:43 PM
Don't know about the locking system jazz but, I do know about Taurus.
My PT92 is fantastic in terms of reliability, accuracy, fit and finish.
The people who wrote the manual were bold in telling you that if you can't get to your gun, your goose may be cooked.
Sounds like plain, simple, honest advise to me. But, you are correct in pointing out that it is somewhat ironic with both statements.

When I bought mine, I got a free membership to NRA and a free full cap magazine after the ban left.
As far as I'm concerned, Taurus has proven to be pro-second.

JeremyIA
June 10, 2005, 08:12 PM
I'll bet Jennings is "pro-second" too but I won't buy a gun that isn't guaranteed to go "bang" when I pull the trigger. Integral locking systems are just one more additional mechanical device INTENDED and BUILT-IN to actually CAUSE a gun NOT TO FIRE. Forget it. Too much redundant "safety" for me. I wouldn't trust my life to it. I don't even like manual safeties. Give me a decocker and I'll be pleased.

SIG rings a bell :cool:

MountainPeak
June 10, 2005, 08:35 PM
Only own one Taurus. It has been totally reliable and is EXTREMELY acurrate. I don't have a clue where my lock key is!! Oh, it's the Model 608, 8 shot 357mag revolver.

Randy in Arizona
June 10, 2005, 10:24 PM
lwsimon - Ideally, you should have your gun on you at all time with kids.

Yeah, I've met some kids like that too! :evil: :evil: :evil:

joab
June 10, 2005, 10:46 PM
I bought one of their revolvers and noticed that/those warnings,Now I'm afraid to take it out of the box

I used to have a Davis derringer, the manual basically said that just loading the thing was dangerous and probably should not be done.
At least they were honest

Lanceman
June 11, 2005, 12:17 AM
Out of my 8 handguns, 4 have the built-in locking system. Have I ever locked them ? NO. Are they secured and out of reach when stored? YES. I have a Taurus 92, Taurus PT945, SW 637, and Bersa thunder .380 with the locks, all function perfectly, I have yet to ever have the slightest hiccup with any of the autos in several thousand rounds combined. The lock is there, whatever, doesn't affect operation, I don't use it so it is a non-issue, ten years from now all new handguns will probably have them, the new dirty trick will be the handguns that will only fire when the owner is holding it.

Hardtarget
June 11, 2005, 12:48 AM
Just courious...can those locks be removed with out damage to the gun?
Mark.

bogie
June 11, 2005, 12:50 AM
Essentially, I'm guessing that management bargained with their insurance company's lawyers over that one. Makes sense...

Guys, the gun industry is getting more and more dumped on by the legal profession. Before one leaps to conclusions, engage the brain.

Ferinstance...

Ruger's wafflewording in its manuals says that they don't guarantee squat. Nada. Zip. You bought it, it's your problem now.

Thing is, everyone I know who has sent anything Ruger back for customer service says that they're entirely happy with service that borders on a lifetime guarantee.

Which means: You abuse the heck out of something, you probably have a nice paperweight (never have heard of that one tho...). If there's something that could be even partially the company's fault, they take care of it. Nice.

38SnubFan
June 11, 2005, 03:47 AM
Actually from what I've seen of people in my lifetime and the things they do, I would bet money there's more that a few souls out there right now confidently carrying their Taurus or maybe other brands of handguns with the action locked and the key in their pocket or maybe even at home. At home I'm sure. On their person - OH GOD LET'S HOPE NOT, for their sakes!

It is ironic, and redundant, but it also kinda makes sense. A loaded firearm is always a potentially-danerous thing. However, an unloaded gun when you need it the most is EVEN MORE dangerous.

I have a Bersa FireStorm .45 with the internal lock. I use it whenever I store it, and the gun still works fine. However, one should test their safeties every so often to assure proper function (at the RANGE ONLY!)

-38SnubFan

ZenMasterJG
June 11, 2005, 03:54 AM
HardTarget:Just courious...can those locks be removed with out damage to the gun?

Donno about the Taurus, im a 1911 guy ;) But i do know that in general, yeah, a competent gunsmith should be able to remove them. 'course Springfield's ILS is part of the main spring, so swapping in a new one gets rid of it pretty nice and easy :p

joab
June 11, 2005, 10:03 AM
Just courious...can those locks be removed with out damage to the gun? on my revolver the lock looks to be a simple hex screw that backs out to block the hammer from cocking.
When it is not activated it counter sinks into the hammer, so it's hardly as noticeable as the hole that would be left after removal would be.
If the gun was blue instead of SS it would not be noticeable at all

CajunBass
June 11, 2005, 11:39 AM
Why is an internal safety lock any more likely to fail, and lock itself, than the gun is likely to fail and fire itself?

pax
June 11, 2005, 12:24 PM
CajunBass, it has to do with the nature of the mechanisms. Firearms have to be positively cocked in order to fire at all; it takes a certain amount of effort to get the gun into firing condition. It's not something that can happen by gravity, or by jiggling the gun around, or by something breaking inside the gun. Some positive effort has to get the gun into firing condition. The springs have to be mechanically compressed, or the hammer has to be pulled back.

In the case of a firearm which has already been cocked & then locked, the lock might fail, but the gun still requires pressure on the trigger in order to fire because modern firearms have firing pin blocks which prevent the gun from firing if the trigger is not first compressed. There is simply no mechanical way for any gun to fire without the gun first being cocked, and if the gun is cocked, it still won't go off without at least two other parts breaking, the lock and the firing pin block.

Incidentally, the firing pin block on most models cannot really break by moving out of the way. On most guns, the firing pin block must be mechanically moved out of the way before the gun can fire. So if the firing pin block breaks, it's going to break by being locked into place (preventing the gun from firing at all), because the block is always in place unless some mechanical action moves it.

An integral lock, on the other hand, is only one part. It's the only thing that has to fail in order to prevent the gun from working. And it can fail without really "breaking," simply by jiggling into place. Every company has a slightly different design for these locks, but -- for example, and to keep on topic for this thread -- the Taurus lock is a C-shaped piece that catches an opening along the slide rails when the C is swiveled around. In place, it keeps the slide from moving. It doesn't take much imagination to picture that getting jiggled into place and locking the slide accidentally, if the mechanism has loosened up in some way.

pax

CajunBass
June 11, 2005, 12:47 PM
Thanks for the explanation Pax. I'm no expert by any means so I bow to those of you who know more than I do, but to me the lock is just a big non issue. The one's I've got experience with are on a couple of Taurus revolvers, and a Bersa 22 semi, and they've simply been unlocked and left unlocked. I just don't see why they're any more likely to fail than any other single piece of the weapon. (I do know about gremlins though.)

Thanks again.

Bainx
June 11, 2005, 06:32 PM
Integral locking systems are just one more additional mechanical device INTENDED and BUILT-IN to actually CAUSE a gun NOT TO FIRE. Forget it

Honey, you definately AIN'T gonna like whats coming down the pike for you.
Yes, even your damn Sig will have this stuff. Within 10 years.
Read it and weep, take it to the bank.

Bainx told you so and that's a fact

Guy L Johnson
June 11, 2005, 07:07 PM
WARNING:
Securing your firearm may inhibit access to it in a defense situation and
result in injury or death.
WARNING:
Failure to properly secure a firearm may result in injury or death.


They warned them either way, Although the 1st warning people are not very likely to sue.
Guy

GaryP
June 11, 2005, 09:16 PM
When I bought mine, I got a free membership to NRA and a free full cap magazine after the ban left.
As far as I'm concerned, Taurus has proven to be pro-second.

But Wait, did you get a HAT?
NO HAT, NO PURCHASE as far as I am concerned ---- :neener:


:evil:

fastbolt
June 11, 2005, 09:52 PM
Hey, don't laugh too loudly, or make too much fun of these disclaimers/warnings.

If certain interests had their way, there would also be a warning that OWNING THIS FIREARM MAY RESULT IN SERIOUS INJURY OR DEATH ... ;)

Wait a while ... :uhoh:

racenutz
June 12, 2005, 01:38 AM
the Taurus lock is a C-shaped piece that catches an opening along the slide rails when the C is swiveled around. In place, it keeps the slide from moving.

I don't know about other models but on my PT945 the lock prevents the main spring from cocking.

jabberwocky
July 5, 2009, 05:22 AM
(Bump)

I'm a new shooter and bought my Taurus PT145 Mil Pro 3rd-gen new in January. I chose the Taurus because of the price, ala affordable to me. I love this little gun with a .45 punch.

Taurus have a hex-keyed "Security System" safety lock on their weapons. One day, around the 400-round point, I dis-assembled it for cleaning and lubing, which I had done previously. I placed the slide on the frame (without the barrel and spring) to work the slide lube, and got the slide locked. Would not budge. A common issue with Mil Pro's as I later found out at the TaurusArmed site.

Off to the local smith. The first thing he did was use the hex-key to check the safety lock. No joy. He then went deeper with a screwdriver and mallet. Got the slide unlocked.

Straight to the range to do some shooting. After the 3rd round, no fire. No fire after after dis-assembly and re-assembly.

Came home and inspected closer. On a whim, I used the hex-key to check the safety lock. There is a distinct engage feeling when rotated to the "On" and "Off" position. It takes a little extra effort to rotate out of each postion.

Turns out that the safety lock was between "On" and "Off." This affected the cam for the firing pin lock (yet another safety feature). "Affected" as in broke it.

Utilizing the Life Time Warranty, I sent it to Taurus Int'l in FL. for repair along with a brief explanation of my suspected cause.

Two months later, I was back in action. And have had no problems with 300 rounds since then.

A note about two months for repair: It took about a month for the smith in FL. to get to my gun. This is what I expected from posts on the TaurusArmed site. He ordered the replacement part, which had to come from the factory in Brazil. I suspect shipments are made once a month to FL., which accounts for the 2nd month. Once the part arrived, within days my gun was repaired and FedEx'd back to me. All, completely free of charge.

Moral of the story...... Glue that darn hex-key safety lock to the "Off" position.

ChaoSS
July 5, 2009, 06:08 AM
Hmmm, I have the Taurus .38 revolver... I had to look to page 9 to find that warning, but it was even better...

Warning:
Securing your firearm may inhibit access to it in a defense situation and result in injury or death.
Warning:
To prevent injury or death, it is imperative that you must keept your gun unloaded, uncocked, and securely locked, with ammunition in a separate location. In addition, take any other reasonable steps to limit the possibility of theft, accident, or suicide.
Emphasis Mine.

Well, that's good to know. Here all along I've been keeping the gun unloaded and locked, with the ammo locked separately, but I've been keeping it cocked, you know, just to speed things up if I ever need to use it. :rolleyes:

danprkr
July 5, 2009, 09:10 AM
Just courious...can those locks be removed with out damage to the gun?

May not matter. I had to remove the magazine safety on my Hi Power because I couldn't find a gunsmith to do it for me. None of them would take on the liability.

weregunner
August 3, 2009, 06:42 AM
It also helps to read the owner manual first for any number of pistol problems.

That seems to be the reason for many of the so called Taurus pistol problems.

Not following directions, improper disassembly, dryfiring when not supposed to do that, improper reassembly, and being brand new to that firearm as well as being new to shooting. Any of those or a combo of the aformentioned problems create un-neccessary troubles or self inflicted ones.

Prince Yamato
August 3, 2009, 03:24 PM
Hey, at least Taurus doesn't print their warnings on the barrel, like Ruger. I'll take 200 pages of warnings in a throw away manual to a single etching on my gun.

jerkface11
August 3, 2009, 03:52 PM
Can we get a sticky at the top of the forum explaining to the new guys that they are allowed to start new threads?

nofishbob
August 3, 2009, 05:52 PM
jerkface11 Can we get a sticky at the top of the forum explaining to the new guys that they are allowed to start new threads?

Agreed- its a balancing act between necro-threads and the inevitable replies that scream "you should have used the search function!"

Bob

jerkface11
August 3, 2009, 06:30 PM
I'm pretty sure when the thread is 4 years old it's safe to start a new one.

bigfatdave
August 3, 2009, 08:04 PM
Zombie thread wants BRAAAIIINNNSSS!
======
I have never understood the logic behind internal locks.
As I've pointed out before, if I want to disable a firearm, I disassemble it. Pistols get the slide and barrel removed, rifles get the bolt pulled, and revolvers can simply have a padlock on to prevent the cylinder from being put into place (assuming the cylinder isn't conveniently removable).
Why add parts to a gun to disable it when you can subtract parts from the gun when YOU want it disabled?

Is it OK to slip a locked Taurus (or any other brand) into a child's Halloween costume holster with a round in the pipe? Can I just leave my firearms laying around loaded, so long as I turn the key? Can I play "Cowboys and Indians" with a loaded & internally locked revolver?Of course not, those would all be idiotic things to do, and anyone doing any deserves a visit from Saint Darwin ASAP.

denfoote
August 3, 2009, 09:27 PM
I'll guaran-damn-tee that their lawyer made a couple of Porsche payments on that bit of insanity!! ;)

unspellable
August 3, 2009, 09:32 PM
Every morning when I go to work I see a sign that says no firearms, ammunition, or knives allowed. Now let's see... I am entering an arsenal... No firearms allowed... But it's an arsenal...

The_Shootist
August 3, 2009, 10:00 PM
Never was big on reading manuals - which is why this is being posted from
my iPhone!

MedWheeler
August 3, 2009, 10:32 PM
Yeah, it reads funny the first time.. obviously written in a way that would never be written in any other country.
However, it can still be interpreted as having a difference between "securing your firearm", and "properly secure a firearm".., even if one means nothing more than knowing where it is, that it is readily available, and that it is out of the reach of the irresponsible.
The safety warnings on the side of my Intex baby float (inflatable pool floater for a baby) are five times as long in English than they are in any of the other eight languages also included, even though those other languages have longer words and more complicated verbiage. Some just say the equivalent of ""stay near baby at all times in and around the water." Just another example of what personal-injury lawyers have brought us to..

ThrottleJockey72
August 3, 2009, 11:33 PM
I too will pipe up in favor of Taurus revolvers. I LOVE my .357 Taurus Tracker, 7 shot, ported barrel. I don't care for the integral lock, but I am happy that it is there since it allows people in California to own them. My next revolver purchase will likely be a Taurus Judge.

Texshooter
August 4, 2009, 12:34 AM
As the man said in "Blazing Saddles",

Who can argue with logic like that?

flrfh213
August 4, 2009, 02:15 AM
WOW... little books in the box with the guns....

who wudda thunk it.

Extremely Pro Gun
August 4, 2009, 02:27 AM
Check out the two Warnings at the bottom of Page 2 of the Taurus Owner's Manual!!!

Anyone ever notice this?

http://www.taurususa.com/pdf/pistol_manual.pdf

HAHAHAHAHA i wish i could give you REP points like i can on my fishing forum. :D

tdowell
August 4, 2009, 02:35 AM
Just courious...can those locks be removed with out damage to the gun?
Mark.
I have a PT 24/7, I love it, The lock is a very small keyhole on the side of the gun and most wouldn't ever know what is was if you didn't tell them. There's no way to tell if its locked when you're just looking at it, you have to have it in yourt hand to be able to tell. I really like it, its a very nice semi-auto and I'm sure I'll buy another Taurus at some point!

Bishop.357
August 4, 2009, 04:26 AM
IMHO,there is NO REASON to put a lock on any firearm. If you don't want it to go off then don't pull the trigger! Let me say this...I grew up in a home where guns were a part of everyday life. All the meat that we ate for our meals came from my old man goin' out everyday and shooting animals (regardless of seasons) so we could eat. At age 7 my father stuck a .22 rifle in my hands and taught me to use it. He taught me every aspect of guns,from how they are very usefull tools to how they can be very deadly weapons if not properly respected. If more firearms owners took the time to teach their children these lessons gun locks whould have no purpose.
Heres a good example to teach a child on how dangerous a gun could be if disrespected: Buy a large ham or other peice of meat,then with your gun and child take it out into a field and empty a couple of rounds into it. Cut it open and examine the damage all the while instructing the child on what happens when a bullet hits flesh. I could go on but I believe my point is clear. Don't let the movies and video games teach your kids about guns,be a responsable parent and teach them yourselves. Thats my opinion anyways...

ThrottleJockey72
August 5, 2009, 01:32 AM
Don't let the movies and video games teach your kids about guns,be a responsable parent and teach them yourselves.
Very sound advise and I agree 100%. My only question is how is this possible for everyone? We have lived in a nanny state for so long that I fear most have forgotten how, heck quite a few don't know or weren't taught themselves. We live in a world where most parents just write a check to the daycare and assume their child is learning the common sense aspects of life. They aren't by the way. And when the child reaches school age, our hands are tied because the school takes over and the authorities now decide what is proper and what isn't. If you cross their line, they take your child. On a side note, I have taken the responsibility, my 10yo son, and my 5yo daughter are both enrolled in dads school of common sense and firearms ownership/responsibility. My 2yo just isn't quite ready yet, but her class is being prepared.

tju1973
August 5, 2009, 11:28 PM
Obviously written by a good lawyer looking out for his/her client ... :neener:
Bingo---

Erik M
August 6, 2009, 12:04 AM
I have a new model 66, I think I read something in my manual that says be very very careful with this firearm. CAUTION: you dont want to send it to Taurus customer service.

Nicodemus38
August 6, 2009, 12:22 AM
this covers their butt very well, it informs you that you need to keep the weapon locked up so mental imcompetents, politicians, and children cant get the gun out and hurt themselves. It also covers them by telling you that if the weapon is locked up in a safe or locked up with the safety system, you wont likely be able to protect yourself from the pitbull chewing on your arm that made you reach for your pistola.

also, the safety lock keeps someone dumb enough to "carry in the bulge' from blowing themselves out of the reproductive pool if they get to excited and squeeze off a round in their pants by mistake.

KBT1911
August 6, 2009, 07:24 PM
Yes, this is the department of redundancy department, can I help assist you?

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