simulated 1,000yrds same as 1,000yrds?


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Joey101
June 10, 2005, 12:55 PM
Okay I saw somewhere these targets for your run of the mill 100yrd range, but the thing is they had several. A 300yrd simulated, 700yrd and so on, on up to 1,000 yrds simulated.

Now my question is this, if I use these at the range how will they help me for the real long range shots?

It seems logical, like when you played baseball as a kid and they moved the 30mph automatic ball thrower closer to resemble a faster speed.

But several things bother me about this theory. First and foremost you don't have 1,000yrds of crosswind and such to deal with. Am I correct in thinking this.

BTW these targets were from the US Palma team. I'm sure you guys have seem them.

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bogie
June 10, 2005, 01:51 PM
You're right - those targets only let you deal with target size, not conditions. If you only practice at 100 yards, you're gonna be hosed when you move to 1K...

HSMITH
June 10, 2005, 02:39 PM
You are right, a huge part of shooting past about 300 yards is reading the wind and there is no way to simulate that at shorter range. The marksmanship part is all you can work on up close, letting the shot go without disturbing your sight alignment is the same regardless of range.

BobCat
June 10, 2005, 02:44 PM
Yes, you are right, the wind has longer to work on the bullet, and you will not learn come-ups for long range, shooting at reduced targest at shorter ranges.

However, my experience is that shooting the 600 yard prone stage at a real 600 is not really harder than shooting an MR63 (reduced target simulating 600, at 300). My scores are the same or better at 600 than at 300 (there is another reason for that - the 600 yard number boards are lots bigger and I can really see them, so not as worried about cross-firing on wrong target).

I was really apprehensive about the actual 600, but a couple people were kind enough to suggest come-ups to try / start out with - and someone gave me some coaching on wind. Turned out to be really fun!

You will get a kick out of shooting the reduced targets and if you ever do get to shoot 1,000 yards, the sight picture will be familiar. As the old commercial said, "Try it, you'll like it!"

Purrrs,
BobCat

Jim Watson
June 10, 2005, 02:45 PM
There are some folks shooting a variant of BPCR Metallic Silhouette with .22 single shots. They say a .22 at 200 yards is affected by the wind about like a .45-70 at 500 meters.

But the reduced targets will certainly help you on the aim and squeeze part.

Joey101
June 10, 2005, 02:49 PM
Thanks guys, just as I suspected. I kinda figured there's no way I can simulate 1,000yrds in a 100.

Bobcat- I noticed you live here in Texas! Do you do your long range shooting @ Tac-Pro?

Steve Smith
June 10, 2005, 04:08 PM
I would disagree to an extent. I found shooting the 200 yard HP targets to be an excellent teacher, and then shooting the Smallbore A-51 at 50 meters with a .22 did wonders for my 600 yard performance. I would suggest you shoot the hardest target you can with a small caliber you can find. I have heard that the .22 rimfire at 100 simulates a .223 (including wind) at 600 very precisely.

Until you learn to be accurate without the wind, you'll never learn to be accurate with it.

30Cal
June 10, 2005, 04:34 PM
I agree with Steve. The reduced long range targets are mercilessly unforgiving and you'll see problems there that you would never see on the 200 and 300yd targets.

Ty

BobCat
June 10, 2005, 06:37 PM
Joey101,

No, I'm near Houston and shoot at Bayou Rifles; web site with map in my .sig.

We just (late last year) got our 600 and 1,000 yard ranges built. Before that, we shot the "600" at 300 yards on the reduced MR63 targets. I was apprehensive about 600, but it is amazingly do-able - just need guidance and practice reading and correcting for the wind. And it helps that nobody tells me to "go away and not come back until I can shoot with the best."

I shoot a 3" black circle at 50 yards with a .22 to improve my standing shooting. It is to scale - the 200 yard target has about a 13" (I think 12.85") black, which includes the 9, 10, and X rings. So it should be 3-1/4" at 50 yards, to scale.

I need to get up off my duff and start shooting 1,000. Somehow, that seems very intimidating - probably a good reason to try it.

Anyway, have fun! And when things you thought were impossible start seeming routine, remember this thread.

Regards,
Andrew

Joey101
June 10, 2005, 09:57 PM
Thanks goes out to all of you!

I will print out the simulated targets and take them with me to the range this weekend.

I wish I could try the .22 thing at 100yrds. But the range I go to doesn't allow .22 on their 100yrd range. Only open-sighted centerfires and scoped centerfires on the 100yrd. :banghead:

I will give them a shot and see what I can do. My first time out 2 weekends ago. Firing at a 16"x22" target I managed 4 on paper. Let me explain myself before you guys start telling me I need practice. I know I do first of all. But you got to start somewhere right? Second it was my first time firing my 30-06 and couple that with not wanting to expend the rounds (I only had 20) to properly sight in my scope, I figure I did pretty well.

And lastly, how many of you guys feel like shooting came naturally to ya'll? I don't know I feel like I was born to do this. Weird. But good I guess!

Jon Coppenbarger
June 11, 2005, 08:07 AM
Well 6 days from now I will shoot my ar15 at a palma match so I will see how I do. I have not shoot palma since like 1989 and now with a 223 in a service rifle I will see how my prone has developed. LOL!
I have the loads and come ups will be given to me by a friend who has done darn well with it at 1k. Am I nervous NO as I want to be one of the guys who beats those long range guys with a ar15. It might take me a year of doing it but you never know? LOL!
As far as my opinion goes on what a reduced target is like compared to a full size target at distance. Well if you can see your holes at 200 yards I am disapointed when I do not do well. and that means like a 197 or 198. Not so much wind at that range but light conditions that may change but more than not is letting your self shoot a shot when you know the position is just not right no matter how good the shot looks. Those couple of nines will kill you every time because of position.
At 600 yards those 9's can even be 8's or 7's. Nothing like shooting a 196 at 600 yards with a 7 or a 196 with two 8's. I even had a 198 this year with a 8 at a match back in april.
The conditions at 600 yards or longer are something that takes years of learning and it gets even the best service rifle shooters as I find when I am having problems everyone else usually is also. If I am struggling and others are doing well then I find it is something I have done wrong with my equipment. Like a couple of weeks ago I shot a 189-9x and was really struggling with being able to see my front post. I went from a 44 to a 46 rear apeture a few weeks ago because it has been dark here allot lately. Man it was frustrating then a few days later I pull the apeture out and I had gone from a 44 to a 40 instead of a 46. Dummy me.
Did some more load testing last week and fired two sighters at 600 and went and checked them. Then went back and fired 20 shots and it was a clean with 10 and fired my last 8 and shot a clean with 4.
What does all that mean to me. It means that that mistake I made at the match the week before made me during that match rely on my position and NPA and has caused me to never let the shoot go unless it feels right. As the last 5 shots with that 189 were X's and I never saw my post after it went into the black

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