(MN) Gun owners owe society responsibility


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Drizzt
March 18, 2003, 04:51 PM
St. Cloud Times (St. Cloud, MN)

March 17, 2003 Monday

SECTION: OPINION; Pg. 5B

LENGTH: 699 words

HEADLINE: Gun owners owe society responsibility

BYLINE: Valerie Grant Rude, Freelance OK

BODY:
Target range accuracy doesn't fulfill obligation

I want to discuss gun safety and responsibility. Gun owners need to be aware that they have a responsibility to the community in how the gun is used even when there may be cases in which a person feels a need for a gun for protection

I am somewhat familiar with the use of guns. I was raised on a farm and we always had a shotgun and a rifle for hunting. Dad taught my brothers (he tried to teach me) how to shoot and about safe handling of the guns. The guns were always emptied and cleaned after use and stored in the back bedroom in the "broken" or "open" position. The ammo was stored two rooms away in the kitchen near the back door so it could be grabbed on the way out when we heard a rustling in the hen house.

One day in a fever my older brother scared the dickens out of us by aiming an empty rifle at the ceiling and clicking the trigger. We were grateful that the ammo wasn't handy to him.

Brochures

The HealthPartners Central Minnesota Clinics in St. Cloud have an informative brochure, "Keep Your Family Safe from Firearm Injury," which is provided by the American Academy of Pediatrics and Center to Prevent Handgun Violence.

Before someone begins to get bent out of shape, the brochure does not say anything about gun ownership in itself. It describes common sense precautions for protecting yourself and others from your own and other's firearms. It touches upon teen depression and how the availability of guns increases the risk of suicide. It states "the risk of domestic homicide is three times greater if there's a gun in the home."

Other clinics may have similar brochures.

Assessing risks

Gun owners have a responsibility toward their community in terms of safety. I find it scary to hear people describe how they would use their gun to settle situations that could become dangerous.

For example, one day at work I heard a maintenance fellow speaking to someone outside my office door. He said that a strange dog had appeared during the previous evening on the street, which was crowded with children. He said that he was tempted to go get his gun and shoot that dog. He wanted to fire his gun into a street full of children. He didn't say that the dog was threatening.

Why didn't he think in terms of calling the experts - the police and the Humane Society? Why did he feel that he might solve the problem himself because he owned a gun?

A few people may feel they can take things into their own hands because they have the power, they have a gun. They may pull that "baby" out and start to play Wyatt Earp with the gun, endangering those around them. The police say don't be a hero because you could become injured or an innocent person could be caught in the crossfire.

Training

If you have children in your house, are you going to lock your empty gun away? In our society many see guns as being cool and the holder as having power. Young children and teens may not have skills and training to prevent them from using a gun inappropriately.

How well have you trained and drilled members of your household in the dangers and the use of your gun?

The accuracy of a shot is not enough. One must be able to instantly determine if the target is friend or foe. Even some adults who are supposed to be trained in how to use a gun aren't. My son-in-law supposedly taught my daughter how to use a handgun. When she was trying to show me, he had to show her again how to take off the safety and how to cock it. I wondered how accurately she could shoot before an intruder took it away from her. Would she end up shooting her landlady in the middle of the night by mistake?

People should not think in terms of solving problems by using a weapon. Our police have been trained in methods of assessing and in de-escalating situations before things get out of hand. If you are going to carry a concealed weapon, do society a favor and take courses in target identification, situational assessment and anger management.

Target practice is not enough.

Valerie Grant Rude is registered occupational therapist living with her husband in the Rice area. Her column is published the third Monday of the month.

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TallPine
March 18, 2003, 04:59 PM
Valerie Grant Rude is registered occupational therapist living with her husband in the Rice area

Glad we have finally heard from an expert now ... :neener:

Blackhawk
March 18, 2003, 05:13 PM
Valerie asks some good questions. Her mistakes are in answering them herself before doing the research.

schmo
March 18, 2003, 05:15 PM
All citizens owe society responsibility.

Hkmp5sd
March 18, 2003, 05:16 PM
the American Academy of Pediatrics and Center to Prevent Handgun Violence.

Why do reporters always get their firearms safety information from groups wanting to ban all firearms instead of groups that actually teach firearm handling and safety?

atk
March 18, 2003, 05:25 PM
I think she makes a few valid points, and, while everyone here may already know these things, I'd wager that a lot of people don't...

- deescalation is always better than firing a gun.
- (rule 4) know your target and what's beyond it, including: target identification is a Good Thing.
- target practice does not solve all problems
- incomplete training is incomplete; or training without practice is worthless

Of course, she makes some assumptions in there, as well. She states that the guy who wanted to shoot the "strange" dog didn't believe that there was an immediate danger to anyone, but she never explains "strange". The dog could have been frothing at the mouth, or it could have never been in that neighborhood before.

She also doesn't provide us with much information. What does this brochure from HealthPartners Central Minnesota Clinics in St. Cloud actually say? Where does it get its information? What situation does it try to cater to?

She states:

I find it scary to hear people describe how they would use their gun to settle situations that could become dangerous.


Well, I've also heard people say stupid things that they don't really mean. Besides, there's plenty of ways for a situation to become dangerous without the gun owner escalating it.

My final comment (for now) is about this bit:

One must be able to instantly determine if the target is friend or foe.

What a doosie. Firstly, everyone has to determine if, at any time, an individual means them harm - whether you are armed or not, someone could try to hurt you any time they decide to try. Secondly, determining the status of an individual is only for the moment - they may take an action that changes their status at any time. Thirdly, I'd hope it's pretty obvious when a person uses deadly force - I mean, if I see person A attempt to use a gun/knife/car on person B, I pretty darn well know what's going on. If I am person B (or if I've been hanging around person B all day, etc), I damn well know the immediate history - which is all that really matters. If I don't know what's up, and I don't know what led to it, I'm not gonna get involved. Ugh.

Seems she needs a slight reality check?

D_Burchfield
March 18, 2003, 05:41 PM
Would she end up shooting her landlady in the middle of the night by mistake?

These Sheople!!:fire:

She is a very misguided lady who needs a reality check.

If the landlady comes in in the middle of the night without invitation or permission it would seem a clear cut case of B & E.
In the least she would be an unknown intruder and appropriate responses or actions would be quite necessary.

I'm glad her son-in-law has a gun.:D

Quartus
March 18, 2003, 05:55 PM
How well have you trained and drilled members of your household in the dangers and the use of your gun?


Fair question, and one we should all have asked ourselves.


If you are going to carry a concealed weapon, do society a favor and take courses in target identification, situational assessment and anger management.

Target practice is not enough.


Any gun owner who can't say a loud AMEN to that is part of our problem.


As was said, some good questions, but too little knowledge.

BamBam
March 18, 2003, 06:11 PM
He said that he was tempted to go get his gun and shoot that dog. He wanted to fire his gun into a street full of children
What about these phrses?:
-"I ought to tan your hide!".....Hmmmm, sounds pretty gristly what whith having to skin the person and all.
-"I'm so hungry, I could eat a horse!".......Wow, THAT'S hungry!
-"It's raining cats and dogs"........Did a tornado hit the animal shelter?
-"I'm going to KILL Junior when he gets home!"........Tough love?

Standing Wolf
March 18, 2003, 06:23 PM
For example, one day at work I heard a maintenance fellow speaking to someone outside my office door. He said that a strange dog had appeared during the previous evening on the street, which was crowded with children. He said that he was tempted to go get his gun and shoot that dog. He wanted to fire his gun into a street full of children. He didn't say that the dog was threatening.

Yeah, but the guy didn't.

All rights necessarily include responsibilities, as all adults know.

Quartus
March 18, 2003, 07:04 PM
Hmmm. That's almost the definition of an adult, isn't it, Standing Wolf?

benewton
March 18, 2003, 07:25 PM
How about the debt that "society" owes the weapon owners/users?

And, given that they must exist, which I doubt, how about some reasonable, from our point of view, country wide laws?

schmo
March 18, 2003, 07:27 PM
Society owes gun owners freedom.

El Tejon
March 18, 2003, 07:37 PM
Target practice is not enough? What a inane straw argument. Of course not, who says it is?

That's why I practice mal drill, weak hand, one hand, weak-hand drawstroke, one hand mal drills, I go to school, I study, I read, I do downrange work, I practice groundfighting, and I run on the treadmill. I harden the eye, body and mind.

Lady, this is THR, not the NRA flabby flannel set. I'm glad she agrees that target practice is not enough. Education is the key. Now let's get to work mandating weapons training in public schools! "Class, get out your AR-15s and follow Professor El Tejon to the range."

benewton
March 18, 2003, 07:39 PM
Concur, given that freedom is earned, not given, and that'd be another thread.

TallPine
March 18, 2003, 08:16 PM
If somebody steals my car (pickup), and then goes out and causes a fatal accident with it, I am not held liable for not having it better secured.

Neither am I expected to store the gasoline separately from the vehicle.


Let's see, what other dangerous items do I own ... chainsaw, lawnmower, tractor, skilsaw, drill ...? Of course, I have to be responsible with all of these things, but my guns are just tools also. What's the big deal, where are the articles about having to have special training to own a chainsaw, etc ??????

Probably the most dangerous thing in my house is the brick chimney directly at the bottom of the basement stairs - it wouldn't be good to fall down head first.

twoblink
March 19, 2003, 10:51 AM
Is anybody else annoyed by the underlining tone that most gun owners go out and buy a gun and start shootin' up the barn without training or practice?

When I take newbies shooting, they are surprised at how hard "this shooting stuff" is. Of course target practice isn't enough; to quote Bruce Lee "boards don't hit back" and paper or steel targets don't shoot back.

Training training training..

Good questions, yep... to bad she made a feeble attempt at answering them; and at getting information from horrible sources.

You'd think she'd place a phone call to like GunSite or ThunderRanch for a quote.

I can bet you every instructor at most of those places will place heavy emphasis on training.

Leatherneck
March 19, 2003, 11:25 AM
Unfortunately, the few valid points Valerie makes are drowned out by the incessant bleating sounds. (where's my sheeple smiley anyway?) :D

TC
TFL Survivor

Drjones
March 19, 2003, 01:35 PM
atk:

Welcome to THR.

Thanks for trying to see the bright side in that article, but really, she lost what little credibility she might have had as soon as she referenced the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence.

She might as well have quoted Brady herself.

:rolleyes:

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