Interesting TEOTWAWKI books


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jnojr
June 12, 2005, 08:15 PM
The first of the series is "Left Behind" by Jerry Jenkins and Tim LaHaye. It's about the Rapture and the seven years of tribulations that follow. I'm not a very religious person, but the book is not overly preachy at all. There are some very odd "facts" that the authors obviously contrived quite a bit to match the prophesies in Revelations, but not so bad as to detract from the story. I've only just finished the first one, and there are eight more to go, it looks like. I have a feeling that firearms and other means of worldly self-defense won't come into play much, if at all, but still...

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TarpleyG
June 12, 2005, 08:51 PM
My wife has read all 13 or how many ever there are. She likes them but I never could get started on them.

Greg

Kamicosmos
June 12, 2005, 09:04 PM
I don't want this to turn into a flame fest, but I'm curious to know if this is a local issue or not.

A few years ago around here, these books were in the non-fiction section. There was a lot of controversy when one store moved them to Fiction.
Lots of crying about how it's non fiction because it's based on an interpretation of the Bible. I think they were moved to a Religious and/or New Age section, which calmed some people while outraging others.

I haven't kept up with the story on this, but I'll try to drop by some book stores and see which section they're located in now. So, was this a localized deal, or did it happen other places?

Lone_Gunman
June 12, 2005, 09:44 PM
I've not paid attention to where these books are located, but they are clearly fiction, and I am not sure why someone would think otherwise. The main characters are not in the Bible, though the events are biblically based.

mpthole
June 12, 2005, 10:07 PM
I read the first 5 or 6 books with great interest - usually blew throught them in an afternoon. As I got further into the series, their writing just got worse and worse. For how much research they put into technology issues, they could have put a little into other areas: like guns and weapons. The story got to be so bad, I just put the book (10 or 11?) down half way through it and never picked them up again.

Some of the "classic" SHTF/TEOTWAWKI books IMO are:
Alas, Babylon and Lucifer's Hammer.

Sean Smith
June 12, 2005, 10:11 PM
A few years ago around here, these books were in the non-fiction section. There was a lot of controversy when one store moved them to Fiction.

Stuff like that makes me WANT the world to end. It is a story that is LOOSELY Bible-based. I mean REAL loosely. Religious nutjobs too retarded to read their own scripture... oy, vey. :rolleyes:

taliv
June 12, 2005, 10:13 PM
_alas, babylon_ is definitely a classic. i think it's been like 20 years since i read that.

Nehemiah Scudder
June 12, 2005, 10:22 PM
"The Postman" by David Brin
"The Stand" by Stephen King
"Wolf and Iron" by Gordon Dickson
"Warday" by Whitley Strieber
"The Forge of God" by Greg Bear
Any of the books by James Axler

Art Eatman
June 12, 2005, 10:25 PM
Pournelle & Niven, "Lucifer's Hammer". Aftermath of asteroid impact. Quite real-world, really.

There is quite a large number of post-apocalypse novels in SF. A fair number of them are quite reasonable as to the probable social behaviors...

Mel Tappan wrote a good bit on the technical aspects of "survivalism", back in the 1970s. Lotsa good advice.

Art

rock jock
June 13, 2005, 12:48 AM
Don't forget Earth in the Balance by Al Gore.







Can be found in the fiction section.

Vernal45
June 13, 2005, 12:52 AM
Lucifer's Hammer, Larry Niven,Jerry Pournelle
Footfall, Larry Niven,Jerry Pournelle



The Mote in God's Eye, Larry Niven,Jerry Pournelle
Had to throw that last one in, its a favorite of mine. Those Moties are messed up... :D

lwsimon
June 13, 2005, 12:52 AM
"Lucifer's Hammer", "Wolf and Iron", and "Alas, Babylon" are all excellent.

QuickDraw
June 13, 2005, 01:09 AM
"Earth Abides" by George Stewart

QuickDraw

beerslurpy
June 13, 2005, 01:13 AM
Yeah, Niven and Pournelle are teh win. I loved a lot of the Known Space stories. Pournelle recently wrote a great piece on how the TSA is a test of how much tyranny the american people will tolerate. He felt we were failing the test.

Vernal45
June 13, 2005, 01:19 AM
beerslurpy,


Pournelle recently wrote a great piece on how the TSA is a test of how much tyranny the american people will tolerate. He felt we were failing the test.

Do you have a link to that?? Would like to read it.

beerslurpy
June 13, 2005, 02:00 AM
I found this link to the thread in which I originally saw it:
THR thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=126766)

But he seems to have removed it the original article because someone frightened him. I found this on his website.
what the TSA does best- employ TSA employees (http://www.jerrypournelle.com/archives2/archives2mail/mail276.html#TSA)

I liked this quote I found here (http://www.jerrypournelle.com/archives2/archives2mail/mail277.html#TSA3)
Remember Heinlein's Space Cadet, where he discussed the difference between officers in the Patrol and the Marines? If a large part of your workforce has IQs between 70 and 110, you can't expect them to make the kinds of critical judgments that you might expect from a workforce with significantly higher IQs. Instead, you need to define their jobs procedurally, and you can still expect to have situations arising that are beyond them. That's what supervisors are for. In the US Army in WWII, the Corps of Engineers had the brightest officers (AFQT Cat 1) and dumbest enlisted men (AFQT Cat 4-5), and generally functioned well.

Vernal45
June 13, 2005, 02:15 AM
beerslurpy, Thanks for the info.


Little off topic, does anyone know were I can get a copy of the RingWorld series.

O.F.Fascist
June 13, 2005, 02:17 AM
I read Alas, Babylon a few months ago and I really liked it.

The other day checked the local libraries for Lucifer's Hammer so I could read it, I've heard good things about it, but none of them carry it. So I guess I'm going to have to buy it.

lysander
June 13, 2005, 02:47 AM
At the behest of some fellow THR'ers in another thread discussing TEOTWAKI novels I just finished Lucifer's Hammer by Pournelle and Niven. Though I found it dated, ('77 copyright) I thought it was pretty solid. I'm working on The Rift by Walter Williams now...and would rate it 3 out of 5.

Always give high marks to The Stand by King...and I am open to other suggestions. I've got 8 more weeks of unemployment to kill before I start school again. :banghead:

beerslurpy
June 13, 2005, 03:05 AM
I got them online mostly because they are hard to find in stores. The original "Ringworld" is awesome on many levels. The sequels are relatively weak although Ringworld Engineers is ok. Throne is a waste of a read.

Niven certainly didnt pull an Orson Scott Card or anything (he is the guy who wrote the great Ender's Game and followed it up with various "sequels" that sucked and werent even real sequels). The suckyness of the sequels is mostly in relation to the awesomeness of the first book.

Most of the Known Space short stories are pretty good. Some suck horribly though, so dont expect much. The later Man-Kzin War books have more than their share of tedious hackery although some of the better stories are really good.

Oh yeah, if you like good short stories, download "berserker" by Fred Saberhagen. Sadly most of the berserker series is out of print, but the original was a quite entertaining collection of short stories. It is about giant planet eating robots and pretty much defined the genre lol unicron.

Justin
June 13, 2005, 03:37 AM
Good Omens (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0441008615/qid=1118644557/sr=2-2/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_2/104-4711336-9060714)

:evil:

lee n. field
June 13, 2005, 09:35 AM
Stuff like that makes me WANT the world to end. It is a story that is LOOSELY Bible-based. I mean REAL loosely. Religious nutjobs too retarded to read their own scripture... oy, vey

Not that they don't read it, but a lot of them are very, very attached to the eschatological scheme ("dispensational premillenialism") fictionalized in the Left Behind books, despite the fact that, well, nevermind. :) There's a whole long arguement there that would be very offtopic here.

Haven't read a one of them, don't intend to. I'm thousands of pages behind in stuff I want to read.

Zak Smith
June 13, 2005, 04:18 PM
We're talking TEOTWAWKI and nobody mentions The Illuminatus! Trilogy (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0440539811/qid=1118690214) ?

jnojr
June 13, 2005, 08:18 PM
The other day checked the local libraries for Lucifer's Hammer so I could read it, I've heard good things about it, but none of them carry it. So I guess I'm going to have to buy it.

My local library is part of a system (the San Diego City Library system). Their website has a search feature, and I can request books to be delivered to my local branch. And if they don't have it, so far, the County library system has... it's a little bit more of a drive to get to the closest County library, but well worth it when I want a particular book.

God, I love the library... I would be so broke if I had to buy all the books I read :)

jnojr
June 13, 2005, 08:20 PM
Oh yeah, if you like good short stories, download "berserker" by Fred Saberhagen. Sadly most of the berserker series is out of print, but the original was a quite entertaining collection of short stories.

Where can you download them?

But that's a last resort for me. I hate reading from a computer screen.

SteveS
June 14, 2005, 01:14 PM
I don't want this to turn into a flame fest, but I'm curious to know if this is a local issue or not.

A few years ago around here, these books were in the non-fiction section. There was a lot of controversy when one store moved them to Fiction.


I can't say if it was a national thing, but all of the bookstores around here have them in the fiction section, including the Christian book stores. I consider myself to be very conservative when it comes to my religion and I have trouble with these books being placed in non-fiction.

beerslurpy
June 14, 2005, 01:36 PM
*mean stuff edited out because some people were offended*

They were placed in the fiction section because the majority of those who make book-shelving decisions apparently beleive that conjecture about biblical subjects doesnt fall in quite the same pile as books about the battles of the civil war or the chemical composition of corn tarts.

Gordon Fink
June 14, 2005, 02:21 PM
Beerslurpy, play nice. The Bible is real, whether or not you believe in the gods it describes. Speculative novels based on the Bible are obviously fictional, just like those based on well-accepted history.

~G. Fink

SLCDave
June 14, 2005, 02:33 PM
The writing went downhill when the cult following picked up for the books. As soon as the money started rolling in, the writing got worse with each book. I read them all, but I'll read just about anything...

Beren
June 14, 2005, 02:35 PM
Friendly reminder:

"We have learned from bitter experience that discussions of abortion, religion and sexual orientation often degenerate into less-than-polite arguments or claims that "my God is better than your God". For this reason, we do not discuss such subjects on THR, and any threads dealing primarily with these subjects will be closed or deleted immediately. Threads which deal with other subjects, but which mention abortion, religion or sexual orientation as a side issue, may be allowed to continue, but will be closely scrutinized, and closed or deleted if they "cross the line"."

MechAg94
June 14, 2005, 02:45 PM
Could someone tell me what the string of letters in this subject stands for?


Good reads I can think of below. I like military style science fiction though I never know how accurate is really is. It is scifi so who cares. I have read the Berserker book and a couple of Ringworld books. Saberhagen is a decent writer. I have read Footfall by Niven and someone else. Not sure if I would recommend it or not.

There is another series about Bolo tanks by Keith Laumer I think. The bolos are self-aware computer controled tanks of the future. Good read.

David Drake has re-released an older series. I think the two books were called Warlord and Conqueror. I bought them in hardback. He has a lot of other good books.

John Ringo has a good 4 book series about alien invasion that has battle suits similar to Starship Troopers (sort of). Starts with "A Hymn Before Battle". He has another series that starts with March UpCountry that is good. All in paperback. All are future ground battle type books.

There is an alternate history story that starts with a book called "1632" by Eric Flint. There are a couple other books. Very imaginative.

David Weber has a lot of good books, but they are mostly space naval battle types.

Anyway, this is some of the stuff I have been reading the last few years. Most of it was published in the last 10 years.

Stickjockey
June 14, 2005, 02:53 PM
Mech-

The
End
Of
The
World
As
We
Know
It

rick_reno
June 22, 2005, 12:04 PM
There's one more that I don't think has been mentioned, "Patriots Surviving the Coming Collapse" by James Wesley, Rawles. It was written online as sort of a shareware experiment - the title then was "Triple Ought", then he published it. The published version has a LOT of useful info in it - should we ever find ourselves in a survivial situation.
Here's a web site about it http://www.rawles.to/patriots.htm

JohnBT
June 22, 2005, 12:20 PM
Farnham's Freehold by Heinlein was pretty good, but I last read it just after it came out in the early '60s.

John

Mixlesplick
June 22, 2005, 02:41 PM
Good Omens

Heeheeheehee :p

Jim Watson
June 22, 2005, 03:05 PM
'Island in the Sea of Time' by S.M. Stirling is excellent, both as a post-apocalyptic story and as adventure fiction in general. The island of Nantucket is inexplicably translated 3500 years into the past. Work with what you have got on hand and get along with your new neighbors... or not.
The followons, 'Against the Tide of Years' and 'On the Oceans of Eternity' are even quite good.
The story of what happens back home, 'Dies the Fire', is less satisfying as SF but has a lot of stuff about getting along in suddenly low-tech conditions. I see there is a sequel to that, 'Protector's War' on the way.

Flint's 1632 is kind of a clone, but with a move to a more recent and better documented era. Grantsville, WV mysteriously dropped into the middle of the 30 Years War. And it is growing fast and far. There are at least three more books, e-books of fanfic, and a story and technical guide for those who want to contribute. Even if just for background, there is a lot of interesting stuff at: http://1632.org/

If you are looking for the secrets of macroengineering time travel, it ain't there, in either series, but if you like the basic 'Conneticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court' plot of moderns finding their way in simpler times, they are great reading.

GEM
June 22, 2005, 03:33 PM
Stirling is quite good. The Island triology is awesome. He also has Peshwar Lancers which is an asteroid strike takes out the US and Europe in the late 1800s and the Brits move to India.

Dies the Fire is so so.

In the Island triology, there is a lot of gun stuff as they try to rebuild a firearms industry. One plot device was that evil preachers/save the whale types destroy most of the modern firearms on Nantucket. They had been concentrated in a warehouse for a militia. I told the author that in TX, people wouldn't have turned over so many. He agreed but wanted the plot device so that the survivors didn't have the advantage of lots of modern firearms.

Malone LaVeigh
June 22, 2005, 05:12 PM
Whenever this topic comes up around here, I have to put in a plug for Good News by Edward Abbey. Another great classic usually brought up by someone is A Canticle for Leibowitz by Walter M. Miller.

Jim Watson
June 22, 2005, 05:59 PM
GEM,

Glad you mentioned Peshwar Lancers, I particularly enjoyed the fact that he used so many characters out of the old Talbot Mundy adventures 'King of the Khyber Rifles' and 'Jimgrim.' I was glad for him to give Chulunder Ghose a PhD (In 'Jimgrim' he presented a calling card engraved "Failed Oxford, '28" said to be a common conceit for babus of the Raj.) but was soon saddened to see him assasinated.

Rung Ho!

confed sailor
June 22, 2005, 07:32 PM
alas babylon, such a wonderful book,

anything by heinlein is a must read might i add, i love "beyond the horizon" where the main character marvels at the "Colt model of 1911 .45" and its effects verses the blasters others carry.

Dave R
June 22, 2005, 07:33 PM
I read all the "Left Behind" books. Gun-handling in them is about on par with Hollywood. That bad. There's a description of shooting a .50BMG rifle, and the shooter, in prone position, is pushed back 3 feet by the recoil. Obviously no research done there.

+1 on Lucifer's Hammer. Great read, and great survival lore.

Another book that is a survival manual with a little bit of plot thrown in is "Patriots: Surviving the Coming Collapse."

3rdpig
June 22, 2005, 08:07 PM
I enjoyed Jerry Ahern's Survivalist series. Pure escapism, but still entertaining and at least Ahern doesn't make the same stupid mistakes about guns that so many other writers make. You'll not read about safeties on revolvers and that kind of stuff.

Biker
June 22, 2005, 08:45 PM
Yes. Ahern's series was fun as is Axler's Deathworld series. Lucifer's Hammer is top shelf as is The Earth Abides.
Biker

unclestu
June 22, 2005, 09:06 PM
"Some of the "classic" SHTF/TEOTWAWKI books IMO are:
Alas, Babylon and Lucifer's Hammer."
Two great ones, all right. Haven't read either one in many years, may have to see if the used bookstore has either in the SF section.
Several by Heinlein were mentioned, I'd add Tunnel in the Sky . Also On the Beach by Neville Shute. For slam bang shoot-em-up, after-the-bomb nonsense maybe the Ashes series by William W. Johnstone.

Within the past year I read a novel about the modern consequences of a big earthquake along the New Madrid fault(one there in the early 1800's made a section of the Mississippi River run *backwards* :what: ) . I can't remember the name of the novel or the author, but it was a good one. That'll be helpful at the bookstore or library, huh? :D

athlon64
June 22, 2005, 09:19 PM
There's one more that I don't think has been mentioned, "Patriots Surviving the Coming Collapse" by James Wesley, Rawles. It was written online as sort of a shareware experiment - the title then was "Triple Ought", then he published it. The published version has a LOT of useful info in it - should we ever find ourselves in a survivial situation.
Here's a web site about it http://www.rawles.to/patriots.htm

I read the softcopy of this, thought it was pretty good. Lots of gun and survival discussion included.

lee n. field
June 22, 2005, 11:28 PM
Stirling is quite good. The Island triology is awesome. He also has Peshwar Lancers which is an asteroid strike takes out the US and Europe in the late 1800s and the Brits move to India.

His Draka novels have, quite literally, given me occational nightmares, and I cannot read them straight through. only in small doses. Not exactly SHTF (unless you consider a modern high tech slave-holding master race uber-Nazi state taking over the world to be a slow motion SHTF), except at the very end of Stone Dogs.

Gung-Ho
June 22, 2005, 11:32 PM
Has anyone mentioned Patriots, Surviving the Coming Collapse by Rawles,and Pulling through by Dean Ing? Both excellent.

Mixlesplick
June 23, 2005, 03:40 AM
Within the past year I read a novel about the modern consequences of a big earthquake along the New Madrid fault(one there in the early 1800's made a section of the Mississippi River run *backwards* ) . I can't remember the name of the novel or the author, but it was a good one. That'll be helpful at the bookstore or library, huh?

That sounds like The Jericho Iteration by Allen Steele.

captain obvious
June 23, 2005, 03:48 AM
The 1632 series is VERY well written; the first two books became a serious hinderance to my studies when I was reading them. They provide a very realistic take on the idea posed, and it didn't hurt that Grantsville was based on Mannington, WV (a rather short drive from Morgantown and WVU)....

No_Brakes23
June 23, 2005, 04:58 AM
QuickDraw beat me to Earth Abides by George Stewart, a good book, though not always easy to find.

It is a pandemic book written in '49.

It is back in print.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0449213013/104-4395027-0423920?v=glance

I really enjoyed Footfall, can't wait to read the other two Niven/Pournelle books.

David Brin's The Postman was good regardless of what you think of the movie.

Orson Scott Card's The Folk of the Fringe has some interesting stories in it, but isn't one of his better books.

Oh, and I loved The Stand, great SHTF pandemic novel. "M-O-O-N, that spells moon."

Art Eatman
June 23, 2005, 10:12 AM
The book about a recurrence of the New Madrid earthquake is 'The Rift". I don't have it handy to give the author's name.

Art

Mixlesplick
June 30, 2005, 05:27 AM
"The Day of the Triffids" by John Wyndham is an old but good book.

jnojr
June 30, 2005, 03:31 PM
"The Day of the Triffids" by John Wyndham is an old but good book.

There was a '50s movie that was a terrible, campy '50s movie. But then there was a remake aired by PBS in the late '90s, IIRC, that was very good.

Ahh, here we go... http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081850/ 1981, I must've seen it in the late '90s :)

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