Best Pistol for IDPA Competition?


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HKGuns
June 13, 2005, 12:40 AM
Please describe the characteristics of the perfect pistol for IDPA matches..... I just started shooting IDPA and am curious what the responses will be. Please don't name pistols, instead name the characteristics the pistol should posess in the ESP or SSP class?

IE: 3", 4" or 5" barrel?
What kind of trigger?
How should it shoot?
What is the perfect IDPA caliber?
How many rounds should it hold?

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faustulus
June 13, 2005, 03:41 AM
1. it should go 'bang' every time.
2. it should hit where you aim it.
3. it should be easy to reload.

Gary G23
June 13, 2005, 08:55 AM
It should just barely fit into the IDPA box.
It should just barely make the weight limit.
It should just barely make 125 power factor.
You are limited to ten rounds in your magazines.

Jim Watson
June 13, 2005, 09:51 AM
Gary's formulation is a good place to start, although I think at least some people would benefit from a lighter ESP or SSP gun. I shot a 30 oz 9mm for several months and liked it; although I am now using a gun of about the same weight as my CDP for similar handling.

Caliber should be 9mm if you don't handload and maybe if you do; a 147 subsonic is very mild. Some say a light-loaded .40 has less felt recoil than 9mm at the same power factor.

GEM
June 13, 2005, 01:21 PM
One school of thought is to shoot your carry gun if you want to get trigger time with it in a scenario that mildly represents self-defense situations.

NC Shooter
June 13, 2005, 01:28 PM
>One school of thought is to shoot your carry gun if you want to get trigger time with it in a scenario that mildly represents self-defense situations.<

GEM,

You beat me to it. This is precisely what I do. I use my carry rig and gun for every match. Works for me.

ChristopherG
June 13, 2005, 02:25 PM
IE: 3", 4" or 5" barrel?
What kind of trigger?
How should it shoot?
What is the perfect IDPA caliber?
How many rounds should it hold?

5" barrel;

Lightish, consistent trigger with short reset;

'How should it shoot' is too open to helpfully answer;

9mm is the perfect IDPA caliber;

It should hold 11 rounds--10 in the mag, one in the tube.

Dr.Rob
June 13, 2005, 03:01 PM
Ther is no 'best', you can "run what you brung" as long as it fits in the box, you should use your primary defensive handgun, whether it's your carry gun or your nightstand piece.

ESP:

Single action

4 inch barrel

9mm (it's cheaper to shoot than .45, .40 or .38 Super)

Magazine Disconnecter removed.

3 dot or other hi-visibility low mounted sights.

Rubber fingergroove grips ala Houge

slightly beveled magazine well

Skateboard tape on the backstrap

you should be able to manipulate all controls (safety slide release etc) without altering your grip.

Ten + round magazines

I don't shoot SSP. In fact I don't own a DA/SA or "Safe Action" pistol.

Old NFO
June 13, 2005, 04:07 PM
+1 on Gary's comment- I have one of those, and I also will shoot my carry piece if I can double up on any given night.

Some say shooting anything other than your carry is "gaming" the system, but the way I look at it, trigger time is trigger time, and I have a variety of triggers :evil:

Jim Watson
June 13, 2005, 04:56 PM
dear Dr Rob, et al:

The rules now state:

"The following modifications are NOT ALLOWED IN ANY DIVISION unless otherwise specifically mentioned.

E. Disconnection or disabling of any safety device on any gun."

This has been specifically interpreted at B'ville to include removal of the magazine disconnect as has been common on Brownings (also S&W and Star Super.) You are expected to carry an extra empty magazine for the purpose of dropping the hammer at the end of a stage.

faustulus
June 13, 2005, 06:55 PM
This has been specifically interpreted at B'ville to include removal of the magazine disconnect as has been common on Brownings (also S&W and Star Super.) You are expected to carry an extra empty magazine for the purpose of dropping the hammer at the end of a stage.
Wow, that rule is silly, as well as being unenforcable.

HKGuns
June 14, 2005, 12:30 AM
I shoot what I carry. However, I don't see many people shooting what I would consider good carry pieces.

My P7M8 is good as its fast to get into action. However, the 8 round magazines on some COF puts me at a disadvantage as I often have to reload once more than the "glockers" with high cap magazines. (Yes those two extra rounds can make a difference)

I was thinking this.....

5" barrel for increased accuracy and weight.
Better than a 10 round magazine so you can load up 11, 10 & 10
9mm.....light handloaded recoil and cheap ammo whether reloaded or not.
DA/SA action with a light trigger

I've been considering a USP tactical with 5" barrel and match trigger in 9mm. which pretty much fits the bill perfectly. I wouldn't want to carry it, but operationally it is close enough to my USP .45 compact that it would be pretty much the same as shooting my carry weapon.

Jim Watson
June 14, 2005, 12:43 AM
Dear Faustulus:

What do you mean, unenforceable?
Shoot a BHP and finish the stage at "unload, show clear, gun clear, hammer down, holster" by snapping it without an empty magazine in the well and you have demonstrated that you have disabled a "safety device."
I bet ol' Bill will put you right out on your ear.

Silly, yes.

faustulus
June 14, 2005, 03:01 AM
Shoot a BHP and finish the stage at "unload, show clear, gun clear, hammer down, holster" by snapping it without an empty magazine in the well and you have demonstrated that you have disabled a "safety device."
Schrodinger's Hi Power. Let's say you have a Hi Power and after you have finished shooting the RO asks you to show clear and drop the hammer. You show him the chamber then insert an empty mag and drop the hammer. Did that Hi Power have a mag disconnect or not?

Jim Watson
June 14, 2005, 08:49 AM
Schrodinger's Hi Power, I like that.

That procedure has been put forward elsewhere as a means of obscuring the state of the magazine disconnect and calming the range nannys. Go for it. Just be sure to make it a firm habit and hope nobody knowledgeable fiddles with your pistol at the chronograph station.

faustulus
June 15, 2005, 02:23 AM
Jim,
Its really not that big a deal for me, I shoot CZs (mostly) in IDPA and to be frank my local ranges use Wilson's rules as more of guidelines, throwing out the ultra silly ones or the ones which simply do not conform to logic. (like letting me shoot my one of my main carry guns -- STI VIP -- even though it was outlawed until recently) I've pretty much given up big IDPA matches because of the new rules (still shoot locally of course).

Ian
June 15, 2005, 04:10 PM
I could be wrong, but I thought some makes of Hi-Power never had a magazine disconnect in the first place...?

thereisnospoon
June 15, 2005, 04:49 PM
I could be wrong, but I think most of the rules in IDPA are "silly", even though it is my "Sport" of choice...

Dr.Who
June 15, 2005, 11:39 PM
Barrel length must be 4 inches or less for IDPA. To be precise, 4.2 inches as per the rule book.

faustulus
June 16, 2005, 01:45 AM
Barrel length must be 4 inches or less for IDPA. To be precise, 4.2 inches as per the rule book.
Uh, :uhoh: no. They just have to fit into the box (8 3/4" x 6" x 1 5/8") per pages 18-23 of the IDPA rulebook.
Do you really think Bill Wilson would exclude a 1911?
I think you are thinking about the bull barrel. They must be under 4.2"

Dr.Who
June 16, 2005, 03:47 AM
You may want to look at the rule book again... Page 22 point 10, Page 23 point 4, Page 24 point B, and page 25 point B. This is in the new LTB (Little Tan Book). It seems to me that it is very specific according to barrel length, especially with revolver classes.

Let me know if you read it differently....

faustulus
June 16, 2005, 04:04 AM
Dr Who,
As I said, that refers to 1911 style guns with bull barrels or cone barrels (as oppossed to the normal bushing barrel) That is why it is listed under the list of "permitted modifications" It limits the size of bull barrels to 4.2" (basically a commander length or less.) If you look back you will see the box descriptions.
Revovlers are different, they have a barrel length restriction because they don't have to fit in the box.

Dr.Who
June 16, 2005, 04:12 AM
Not true with ESR or SSR guns...

A cone style barrel or a bull style barrel is in reguards to the bushing or lack of one? Correct? If true, then why is a bushing barrel allowed to be longer?

I do agree the gun must fit in the box, however the 4.2 has has me puzzled...

faustulus
June 16, 2005, 04:23 AM
The idea is that a bull barrel adds more weight to the end of the gun, thereby keeping recoil down (in other words it is gaming it)
If you notice the 4.2 designation is only for the single action guns and revolvers (hence it is not mentioned in the SSP section.)
It was basically worded to keep bull barrelled, full-length dust cover STIs and SVs out of IDPA. Wilson thought they were to gamey, too much IPSC.
If it makes you feel better, at ever state match I have been to the predominate gun in ESP and CDP has been the 5" 1911.

HKGuns
June 22, 2005, 11:08 PM
So a 5" XD tactical or an HK tactical would fit into the box and be legal.

Jim Watson
June 22, 2005, 11:31 PM
Doctor:

The 4.2" maximum barrel length for a bull barrelled gun is meant to allow the nominal four-inch guns like Kimber and Springfield compacts whilst requiring a bushing type barrel for the 4.25" Commander which is standard with it, as well as 5" G.Ms. The purpose is to allow common factory guns and keep out the customs. The 4.2" business is fairly recent, at one time it was no bulls, period.

Faustulus:

Whassamatter you never seen David Sevigny or Ernest Langdon clean us 1911 shooter's clocks with a Glock, Beretta, or Sig-Sauer? True, they are pros, but there are some others out there.

shoudek:

I would be darned clear on the dimensions of a HK Tactical before I spent the money, that is a big gun. I am pretty sure that a 5" XD will fit The Box, there are a fair number of the 4" guns and the 5" is cataloged at 8" overall. But I am not guaranteeing it.

faustulus
June 23, 2005, 02:28 AM
Faustulus:

Whassamatter you never seen David Sevigny or Ernest Langdon clean us 1911 shooter's clocks with a Glock, Beretta, or Sig-Sauer? True, they are pros, but there are some others out there.'

Huh? :confused:

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