HD shotgun for the recoil-challenged?


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garyk/nm
June 14, 2005, 09:05 AM
I would really like to get a shotgun for HD, but due to a rotator cuff injury, I am VERY sensitive to recoil (50 rounds thru an SKS will ruin my week). I know that semi-auto would lessen the recoil, but the price! Is there any hope for me?
Would 20 Ga with a recoil pad do the trick?

Or do I just need to "man-up" and ignore the pain :o .

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foghornl
June 14, 2005, 09:28 AM
Or do I just need to "man-up" and ignore the pain

NOT A GOOD IDEA! ! !

You will only completely wreck your already damaged shoulder.

Rem. 1100 with a serious recoil pad..like a "limbsaver" or "kick-eeze". Reduced recoil ammo also needed.

only1asterisk
June 14, 2005, 10:04 AM
"Man-up" is what I would do. I'd man right up to my wife and tell her I absolutely had to have $500 for a 20ga 1100. :neener:

Really, the only place shooting should hurt is in the checkbook. A properly setup 1100 is going to be about the best you can get, but if you can't stand your SKS you might want to try before you commit. My wife also has a bad rotator cuff and our solution is for her to do her shotgunning with a 28ga.

LeonCarr
June 14, 2005, 10:32 AM
Find an 1100 or a Saiga chambered for the .410, and load it with the 000 buck rounds that they make (I think S&B makes them).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

ny32182
June 14, 2005, 10:36 AM
An AR-15 with 40gr frangibles is your friend, my friend. :D

Fred Fuller
June 14, 2005, 11:02 AM
Gary,

Don't hurt yourself worse than you are already hurt. Prowlers/robbers/home invasions are possibilities, pain and injury are certainties if you overdo it right now. I don't know what your prognosis is, but if your doc projects a return to near normal activities anythime in the next year or so it would be worth waiting to get the shotgun until you get a better bill of health (may not ever be 'clean').

If you want a long gun for the house right now, I'd suggest a Hi Point 9mm carbine for the time being. Yeah, a lot of snooty folk will turn their noses up at my suggesting such a thing. I denigrated them pretty badly myself until a dealer I worked with decided to try them several years ago. Well, they look like a refugee from a Planet Of The Apes movie set, they feel cheap, lots of people talk trash about them, but you know what? THEY WORK. I don't think your better- half/CFO will buck at the price. Recoil is mild, manual of arms is dead simple, it will fit your wife (if she shoots right handed) with no problem and she can handle it easily too.

Give 'em a look, wait a bit for the shotgun. http://www.mkssupply.com/carbine.asp

lpl/nc

Fumbler
June 14, 2005, 11:38 AM
If you're recoil sensative then get a setup that's something like a Mossberg 590A1 with wood stock and side saddle.
The 590A1 has a heavy barrel and the side saddle and wood stock would further weigh the gun down.
After that, buy reduced recoil or "tactical" shotshells.

I have a Moaaberg 500C and shoot Remington Managed Recoil 00 Buckshot. It is 8 pellets at 1200 fps instead of the standard 9 pellets at 1350 fps. It makes a huge difference. The low recoil stuff out of my 500 feels like a lightweigh singleshot 410. Even my girlfriend, who won't shoot anything bigger than a 410, will shoot these loads.

I don't know for sure, but I think a heavy pump with reduced recoil loads will recoil less than a heavy auto with full power loads. Maybe you can find an auto that will cycle the reduced recoil loads, then you'd be set :)

MrTuffPaws
June 14, 2005, 11:57 AM
Some of the 20ga's out there will kick harder than a 12ga. Just a warning.

I to have messed up shoulder (my collar bone has been broken twice and now no longer reaches my shoulder) and I went out and got a PAST recoil pad. The kind that straps to your shoulder. This thing works wonders, and I can put more than 20 rounds through my shotguns and rifles without being black and blue for the next week.

As for home defense, no one in their right mind would take the time slipping on a recoil pad, but considering the total number of rounds on you would shoot in such a situation, I don't think you would mind the bruising after you saved your life. Use the pad to practice.

1911 guy
June 14, 2005, 12:00 PM
I'd stick with the shottie, but that's my own opinion. You don't have to use the latest and greatest 00 loads, birdshot will be very effective at across the room ranges. A 20 ga. with skeet loads might be what you're looking for. I know I'm gonna get flamed for advising that, but it will work and suit your needs.

Preacherman
June 14, 2005, 03:47 PM
A couple of points:

1. Consider a 5.56mm. carbine instead of a shotgun. They have minimal recoil, and this will allow you to get lots of practice (which you should do with any serious defensive weapon on which you may have to stake your life!). I'd recommend the Kel-Tec SU16 range as a good place to start looking: they're cost-effective, take standard M16/AR15 magazines which are available everywhere for decent prices, and after a break-in period, are pretty reliable. Kel-Tec's customer service is also decent if you have any problems. I very definitely do NOT recommend an AR15 variant unless you're willing to take the time to keep it well lubricated and cleaned, which will have to be done at least weekly whether or not you've fired it.

2. If you really want a shotgun, I'd recommend getting a Remington 1100 LT-20 or equivalent, and sending it to Jon Tank for his "Personal Defence" modifications - see here (http://www.tanksrifleshop.com/rem1100.htm) and scroll down for the list. The price shown (yes, it's high, but he's the best!) is for a gun supplied by him. If you get a used 1100, it will drop quite a bit. Also, you don't need to do everything on his list: you can select the modifications that are important to you.

Hope this helps.

ny32182
June 14, 2005, 03:51 PM
I very definitely do NOT recommend an AR15 variant unless you're willing to take the time to keep it well lubricated and cleaned, which will have to be done at least weekly whether or not you've fired it.

:scrutiny: :scrutiny: :scrutiny:

00-Guy
June 14, 2005, 04:04 PM
Something else to think about if recoil sensitive is to add a recoil reduction device such as a Gracoil or RAD recoil reducer to the 1100 LT20. If you get the reducer from either manufacturer, get the one with LOP adjustment.

Black Majik
June 14, 2005, 04:48 PM
I'd stick with the heavier, all steel 870/1100 shotguns. Stick with the steel receivers instead of the aluminum receivers such as the Mossbergs and Winchesters

For home defense however, I'd rather use a pump shotgun than an autoloader.

My suggestion would be a 20 ga. Remington 870 with an 18.5" shortbarrel and an extended magazine tube.

Bud Light
June 14, 2005, 05:12 PM
Don't ignore the pain. You should only shoot something you are comfortable with as practice is the name of the game for self defense or the field. If a shotgun causes you enough pain you don't want to go out and shoot it once a month go to something else. I would'nt personally use a shotgun even a 20 gauge if shooting 50 rds of sks causes you alot of pain. You also might develop a flinch or some other bad habit. If I wanted a longarm for HD and was recoil sensitive I'd look at an Olympic Arms AR in a pistol caliber.

wdlsguy
June 14, 2005, 05:31 PM
Mossberg sells a .410 "Home Security" model (model # 50359).

Or you could get a .410 "Cruiser" model (model # 50455) and replace the pistol grip with a regular stock.

EghtySx
June 14, 2005, 05:32 PM
an 1100 with target loads never hurt anyone.

garyk/nm
June 14, 2005, 05:32 PM
Good suggestions, all. (ttbadboy: you :evil: you). Anyone have any experience with the Knoxx Compstock? Supposed to cut felt recoil by 50%, according to the ads. Meanwhile, I'll be on the lookout for a used 1100 20ga. Thanks for the helpful advice.

Preacherman
June 14, 2005, 05:47 PM
The Knoxx stocks won't work on the Remington 1100/11-87 series shotguns, because of the gas tube in the stock. They're designed for pump guns.

DJW
June 14, 2005, 05:47 PM
Instead of spending a lot of cash chasing the perfect non-recoiling firearm why don't you take your 12 guage out and try shooting it from the hip. You might just find it is very simple to hit targets that way after about 1/2 box of shells and that your shoulder will hardly feel it. I recommend this after being shown that hipshooting skeet is not only impressive to see but not as hard as you might imagine. Or, you can practice "retail therapy" and buy all sorts of toys.............best, DJW

CaCrusin
June 14, 2005, 06:12 PM
Either the CompStock or new SpecOps will resolve your shoulder problems. Both reduce recoil and work well with a pump gun. You mentioned a semi-auto as a possible choice to reduce recoil. A pump with one of our stocks will do a much better job. You can use a 12-gauge without pain and not have the extra cost and complexity of a semi-auto. Visit the website and watch the videos. If it doesn't work for you, just send it back for a refund.

CaCrusin :cool:

sarge48
June 14, 2005, 06:24 PM
I have a side by side 12 gauge, Pride Of Spain. It has been cut down but is legal. I can fire both barrels at the same time and there is NO recoil. I use Federal Tactical Buckshot. My 8 almost 9 year old son has fired it also. I'll try to post a pic later. :D

Dave McCracken
June 14, 2005, 08:25 PM
There's a number of options listed. Here's more....

Remington 870 Express in 28 gauge. More muzzle energy than the 44 mag, nigh zero kick. That 3/4 oz of bird shot at typical HD ranges is a 56 caliber semi solid wadcutter at 1200 FPS in effect. Typical 870 reliability. And, on the skeet field or a SC range, it's pure D fun! Fun means more shooting means expertise.

Anyone doubting the close range effectiveness of the 28 is invited to fill a two liter bottle with water. Set it up and shoot it with a skeet load at the longest distance possible in your home. Wipe the wet off your shooting glasses and apologize for doubting me.....

(Sarcasm mode off)....

Or, use a 410. Still close to 44 mag figures, and one of the several 00 loads on the market may pattern acceptably, if you prefer pellets that big.

Nnobby45
June 14, 2005, 08:26 PM
I disagree with any recommendation of birdshot. If you have any pattern at all, you now have individual pellets, the likes of which I've rountinely found under the near skin of small game birds. Even a leather jacket will defeat birdshot. At effective birdshot range (spitting distance), you might as well be shooting a slug--Fed Tac. slugs are soft lead and not strong on penetration, since they expand and flatten out. Very effective. Check with Ammoman.

Low recoil Tactical ammo (slugs and buckshot) may work for some one with a shoulder injury. Their recoil is similar to a light skeet load. Gas operated semi-autos, like the 1100, reduce recoil a lot, and are designed for lighter loads. The 1187 is designed for full power, and not always reliable with low recoil Tactical. A 20 ga. 1100 may be ideal, if not a 12 ga.

I might also recommend the 28 ga. as long as I could find slugs for it without much problem. :cool:

pauli
June 14, 2005, 09:09 PM
my question is, how's the other shoulder? i mean, depending on your personal medical situation, you could either spend $x on a new shotgun or rifle or slingshot or whatever, or you could spend $x on a cheaper shotgun plus ammo while you learn to shoot with your off hand.

esldude
June 15, 2005, 12:11 AM
Honestly, if an SKS is too much, a shotgun just isn't in the cards. You need some basic familiarity to effectively use any HD weapon in HD situations. You need to shoot it some to develop that.

The 9mm carbine suggestions are the best of those you received I think. Shoots lot easier than an SKS while still having a usefully powerful round. I would suggest the Ruger PC9. Maybe the new Beretta Storm also.

A .223 based carbine would also be a good possibility. For HD use, a Ruger mini-14 works and isn't too terribly expensive. It won't shoot as accurately as the AR nor have all the gizmos. But at HD ranges it works fine.

Ammo for both carbines is inexpensvie enough for decent practice as well.

Fumbler
June 15, 2005, 03:14 PM
How bout a Winchester 9410?
It's a lever gun chambered for the 410 bore shotshell.

410's are great fun, very little recoil.

I disagree with any recommendation of birdshot. If you have any pattern at all, you now have individual pellets, the likes of which I've rountinely found under the near skin of small game birds. Even a leather jacket will defeat birdshot.
How long is the longest distance inside your house?
A leather jacket may defeat single pellets, but the shot column will likely be very very small in diameter and a leather jacket won't hold up against multiple pellets stacked on top of one another at those distances.

JohnBT
June 15, 2005, 04:49 PM
"I disagree with any recommendation of birdshot."

Can I tell the story again about my father, uncle and grandfather killing a bear with #6 shot at very, very close range? :cool: A good-sized adult black bear.

John

Nnobby45
June 15, 2005, 07:00 PM
"I disagree with any recommendation of birdshot."

Can I tell the story again about my father, uncle and grandfather killing a bear with #6 shot at very, very close range? A good-sized adult black bear.

John

I have no doubt. Peter Capstick wrote about nearly decapitating a lion with birdshot. At near contact distance there's no question about the lethality of birdshot. It's at distances where birdshot becomes something other than a single mass of shot that the effectiveness breaks down--quickly. Buckshot and slugs work just as well at "very, very" close range and longer range as well. Your call. :)

NOTE: Effect of Federal Tactical at 1230fps (from muzzle) slug on phone book. Brenneke Rottweil mag. 1 1/8 oz at 1340 fps was less devastating, but has much more penetration. Distance was 23 yds.

1911 guy
June 17, 2005, 10:13 AM
I'd like to go back to my comment about small shot for HD. At in room distances it will work, quite effectively. The reason you can find pellets under the skin of game is they have very low mass and weight (individualy) and so they slow down quickly. If they strike a target before they have a chance to spread and slow down, well...

MAURICE
June 22, 2005, 05:33 AM
I like my 870 for HD. Thank the good lord that I have never had to use it, and I hope I never do.
Whoever suggested the HiPoint carine for HD was right about them, though.
I have shot a friends on numerous occasions. Fairly accurate and so far extremely reliable. No hiccups that I know of. The only downsides to them are the looks :barf: , and the 10 round magazine capacity. At about 150 bucks they are also very affordable.
Not my first choice, and I am far from an expert, but not a bad one, IMHO.
Justin, the forementioned friend uses his for HD and just plain fun, cheap plinking.

bd457
June 23, 2005, 06:46 PM
870 remington 12 gauge
low recoil 00 buck
and THIS BABY (http://www.knoxx.com/NewStyleKnoxx/Products/SpecOpsStock.html) right here.

Soften the blow to yourself, but don't ever give up stopping power. After all, you're not going to pull the trigger unless you NEED to kill someone to protect yourself or a loved one.

Gordon
June 24, 2005, 12:11 AM
Another option might be the Bennelli Nova Youth 20 gauge pump. With 3" #2 Federal buckshot it looks like it might be devastating and the stock length is correct. Good hunting gun too for about $350! :)

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