Its Not Just Knives


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Waitone
June 16, 2005, 07:51 AM
http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=660102005


Scotland in grip of 'weapons culture'

MICHAEL HOWIE

Key points
• Arrests by Scottish police for weapon possession increase since last year
• Use of ad hoc weapons such as ash trays and belt buckles on the rise
• Forthcoming Police Bill will introduce hasher penalties for possession

Key quote
"It is not always just knives and other bladed instruments; people are using bottles, glasses, anything they can get their hands on.” - Tom Buchan, the president of the Association of Scottish Police Superintendents

Story in full SCOTLAND is in the grip of a deepening weapons culture, police warned yesterday, as new figures revealed an increase in the number of knives, baseball bats and other potentially lethal items being carried in almost every part of the country.

Statistics obtained by The Scotsman show that the number of people arrested for possessing offensive weapons last year increased in all but one police force area.

Knife crime has long been seen as a particular problem in Strathclyde, but latest figures suggest the carrying of weapons is now spreading more quickly outside the Central Belt, with Tayside, Fife and the Highlands seeing a surge in offenders.

Offences across Scotland totalled 9,374 in 2004-5, 3.5 per cent up on the previous year's figure of 9,058.

Senior police officers said part of the rise could be explained by more targeted searches, for example outside nightclubs, but admitted an increase in recent years of weapons being used and carried in the streets showed little sign of abating.

Officers are now reporting a surge in the use of "impromptu" weapons such as belt buckles and pint glasses in towns and cities, their use fuelled by alcohol, as well as a steady increase in the carrying of knives.

Police in Tayside, which has seen the biggest rise in offensive weapons - 39 per cent - say they are seeing the "creeping return" of knives being carried on the streets, following a high-profile crackdown in the mid-1990s.

Chief Superintendent Ian Alexander said police were now intensifying efforts to catch young people carrying weapons.

In Dundee, an intelligence-sharing scheme has been launched by police and the council which has resulted in nightclub banning orders being slapped on young troublemakers, while door staff are carrying out more searches. But Ch Supt Alexander added: "In the city centre, quite a few young females are carrying knives into clubs on behalf of young men because they don't think they'll be searched. Some are also carrying knives for their own protection.

"In general terms across Scotland there has been a creeping return to the carrying of bladed weapons.

"There's definitely a need to reduce the availability of knives. We have had a significant number of murders where people have gone and bought horrendous hunting knives with seven-inch blades.

"I cannot see any legitimate need for anyone in Scotland to be buying knives like that. It's not as if we have grizzly bears in this country."

Mr Alexander said a disturbing recent phenomenon was the use of belt buckles as weapons.

"We are seeing that a lot on CCTV. You find people involved in a disturbance outside a nightclub, and one of them takes off their belt, wraps it around their hand and lashes somebody with the buckle.

"The majority of serious assaults are now involving either belt buckles or bottles and ashtrays smuggled out of clubs.

"It's very much what they can lay their hands on at the time."

Four out of Scotland's eight police forces separately tally the number of knives carried in public places, and each one saw a year-on-year increase in the offence.

The biggest rise in 2004-5 was in Tayside, which saw a 49 per cent increase, followed by Fife (22 per cent), Central (17 per cent) and Strathclyde (0.5 per cent).

Tom Buchan, the president of the Association of Scottish Police Superintendents, said more people were carrying weapons on the streets of Scotland's towns and cities.

"What this appears to be is evidence of a growing weapons culture in Scotland.

"There is a widespread acceptance of a greater propensity for young people, predominantly male, to carry weapons.

"It is not always just knives and other bladed instruments; people are using bottles, glasses, anything they can get their hands on.

"You also have young people drinking more, which makes them lose their inhibitions.

"But there are a range of factors behind this. If you throw more resources at the problem, or target them better, the figures will rise." Mr Buchan said he supported proposed new legislation to double punishments for people caught carrying knives.

"Even if it doesn't lead to a significant rise in convictions, it sends out a powerful message that this is a 'no-no'."

Kenny MacAskill, the SNP justice spokesman, said: "Part of the increase can be down to more proactive policing, but this is a cultural problem which cannot be addressed by criminal justice measures alone.

"A visible police presence, strict enforcement and severe punishment is necessary, but we need to educate our youngsters in particular that weapons are not tolerated, and cause death and hardship.

"Scotland has to take a long hard look at the bevvy culture as well as the knife culture. The two go hand-in-hand, causing mayhem in many areas, particularly at weekends."

A Scottish Executive spokesman said ministers were "concerned" at the high levels of violent crime involving the use of knives and other offensive weapons.

"Clearly too many people, particularly young men, view the carrying of knives as acceptable, when it is not. Following our Partnership Agreement, we have been undertaking a review of knife-crime law and enforcement in Scotland and in November the First Minister announced a five-point plan to tighten the law in this area.

"The carrying of long, pointed knives (including kitchen knives) in public is already an offence and we now intend to double the current maximum penalty from two to four years in the forthcoming Police Bill.

"The bill will also improve the police's powers of arrest for such offences and raise the minimum age for the sale for knives from 16 to 18. We will be also shortly be consulting on proposals for further restrictions on the sale of non-domestic knives and swords."

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Dave P
June 16, 2005, 08:05 AM
Those darn knives, always causing a ruckus and getting in trouble with the Law!


And here is a classic line: "I cannot see any legitimate need for anyone in Scotland to be buying knives like that. It's not as if we have grizzly bears in this country."

El Tejon
June 16, 2005, 08:06 AM
Hands! The UK is in the midst of a hand epidemic.

For the children, we must remove all hands in the UK toward the goal of a limbless society. What a sunny utopia we will have with a handless UK!

KevinB
June 16, 2005, 08:21 AM
"... It sends out a powerful message that this is a 'no-no'."

Good thing the government knows better so they can protect all those lil' bitty peoples.

:barf:

HankB
June 16, 2005, 08:36 AM
. . . a disturbing recent phenomenon was the use of belt buckles as weapons."There's no reason to permit the wearing of belts in Scotland - when properly fitted, a Scotsman's skirt will stay up by itself."

TallPine
June 16, 2005, 09:05 AM
Yeah, next thing you know those dam Scots will be fighting with pikes and pitchforks ... ;)

Stickjockey
June 16, 2005, 09:27 AM
"It is not always just knives and other bladed instruments; people are using bottles, glasses, anything they can get their hands on.” - Tom Buchan, the president of the Association of Scottish Police Superintendents

Hasn't this guy ever been to a Highland Games? Most of the events there originated from improvised combat training in Scotland.

Hmm. Maybe it's the Scots Militia training for another uprising? :evil:

HankB-

It's not a skirt, it's a kilt. And it's called that for a reason... :neener:

ralphie98
June 16, 2005, 09:36 AM
Clearly, the only way to take care of the problem is to put everybody in straight jackets and wrap them up in bubble wrap.

zahc
June 16, 2005, 10:13 AM
We have had a significant number of murders where people have gone and bought horrendous hunting knives with seven-inch blades.

OMG

sssteinkamp
June 16, 2005, 10:20 AM
What would William Wallace say?

Shane

Old Fuff
June 16, 2005, 10:26 AM
Ah yes ... Now everyone should be able to see where the leftists want to take us...

The weaponless society, where the sheeple have absolutely nothing of any kind to defend themselves or others.

Of course the criminals will all join in and support the effort.

Perhaps they should advocate that people go around nude so that they can't conceal ....... anything. :evil:

Waitone
June 16, 2005, 10:26 AM
I can see it now. The great William Wallace fights the murderous Brits with a Nerf Claymore. :D

io333
June 16, 2005, 11:23 AM
"I cannot see any legitimate need for anyone in Scotland to be buying knives like that. It's not as if we have grizzly bears in this country."


Hmmmm. If I was alone. In the Woods. And there was a Bear. I wonder. I wonder what sort of knife I would need? Recommendations?

Third_Rail
June 16, 2005, 11:33 AM
The kind attached to a gun, with which you shoot the bear.

TheEgg
June 16, 2005, 11:34 AM
SCOTLAND is in the grip of a deepening weapons culture

I can't tell you how funny I find this statement. It is so stupid on so many levels, it was written either by one of the dumbest people on the planet or is a piece of parody of diabolical cleverness.

middy
June 16, 2005, 12:09 PM
Removal of hands and universal straitjackets are impractical solutions. There is only one way to fight this scourge of impromptu weapons: Everything in Scotland must be made out of Nerf!

:banghead:

Andrew Rothman
June 16, 2005, 02:46 PM
All right, evil! Everybody hop back into Pandora's box! In you go!

Sigh. Lord knows as the knife bans are passed the criminals will cooperate in turning theirs in.

Twycross
June 16, 2005, 03:03 PM
I notice a lot of poorly thought-out solutions to this pandemic of violence (straight-jackets, banning belts, making everyone out of Nerf). None of these goes nearly far enough. Straight-jackets can be gotten out of, belts improvized, and even Nerf can be stuffed down someones throat to suffocate them. We need a real solution: cryogenicly freeze everyone in Scotland. Except for a elite group of polliticians and orginizations, to make sure everything runs smoothly.

dasmi
June 16, 2005, 03:06 PM
"It is not always just knives and other bladed instruments; people are using bottles, glasses, anything they can get their hands on.” - Tom Buchan, the president of the Association of Scottish Police Superintendents
Well, no ????. Like I've always said, the problem isn't evil guns, knives, belt buckles, axes, shovels, or sharpened sticks, it's EVIL PEOPLE. People are violent. Deal with it.

"What this appears to be is evidence of a growing weapons culture in Scotland.

"There is a widespread acceptance of a greater propensity for young people, predominantly male, to carry weapons.

No you stupid Scotsman! That isn't what it means. It means that people can be evil and violent, and taking away their guns and knives will only force them to attack eachother with other objects!

secamp32
June 16, 2005, 04:03 PM
The majority of serious assaults are now involving either belt buckles or bottles and ashtrays smuggled out of clubs
We must immediately ban drinking, smoking and the wearing or possession of pants! This will reduce access to these weapons of choice. Everyone know that only the police and army need pants. Remember, its for the Children!! :neener:

wasrjoe
June 16, 2005, 04:27 PM
It's like this is all happening in a weird Bizarro world where common sense is turned upside down and heads are where asses should be.

El Tejon
June 16, 2005, 05:14 PM
I hereby nominate THR's middy as Lord High Tsar Protector of NerfWorld!

All hail, Tsar middy!

George Hill
June 16, 2005, 05:45 PM
The Scots have fallen so low... so sad.
:banghead:
Might as well be Irish now.











(I'm both :D )

svtruth
June 16, 2005, 05:57 PM
Aren't claymores of Scottish origin?

George Hill
June 16, 2005, 06:05 PM
Oh sure... rub salt into the wound.

Brasso
June 16, 2005, 06:29 PM
They should just pass some legislation banning violence. It's so simple and useless a solution that a liberal should have easily been able to come up with that.

What's the quickest way to stop two people from knife fighting?.......give one of them a gun.

An armed society is a polite society......as long as you don't make self defense a crime. Doooh!

G36-UK
June 16, 2005, 07:18 PM
I agree, this place is getting screwed. Our Airsoft stuff is getting banned, while lethal airguns are getting looked over. As if the arsing about after the Brococks wasn't bad enough. I'd have thought they'd have learnt their lesson by now.

BTW -

HankB-
It's not a skirt, it's a kilt. And it's called that for a reason...


Anyone think of a CCW that'd fit in a sporran? Might go national if I get over there. ;)

Waitone
June 16, 2005, 08:17 PM
G6-UK, as our resident Scot I just gotta ask a question. Has the gooberment cut back on the whiskey you guys can produce? Something has happened to your nutrition which has created the "pacifist scot". I have a hard time imagining the existance of such an individual yet evidently they seem to run the country. :D

Feanaro
June 16, 2005, 08:54 PM
"We are seeing that a lot on CCTV. You find people involved in a disturbance outside a nightclub, and one of them takes off their belt, wraps it around their hand and lashes somebody with the buckle.

I don't think that's a new technique. It's sad to see one of my ancestral homelands so out of touch with themselves. They are supposed to have a "weapon culture". Unfortunately I doubt Ireland(I'm Irish/Scottish/German/English, from most to least) is doing much better. :banghead:

P95Carry
June 16, 2005, 09:07 PM
"It is not always just knives and other bladed instruments; people are using bottles, glasses, anything they can get their hands on.? For each item banned - another will surface as a substitute. All the banning imaginable will never halt this sorta trend, as the number of ''potential weapons'' is only as limited by the imagination of potential aggressors.

Carpenters watch out - chisels and screwdrivers will be next... along with hammers.

Pubs will have to convert to ''non glass'' drinking containers.

Pants will have to be custom made for good fit, once belts are outlawed.

All games employing heavy objects will have to cease - no more baseball, no more tennis or cricket - oh and hockey too.

Maybe the final solution would be to ban breathing! :rolleyes:

p35
June 17, 2005, 12:05 AM
Belts

There was a row in Silver Street that's near to Dublin Quay,
Between an Irish regiment an' English cavalree;
It started at Revelly an' it lasted on till dark:
The first man dropped at Harrison's, the last forninst the Park.
For it was: -- "Belts, belts, belts, an' that's one for you!"
An' it was "Belts, belts, belts, an' that's done for you!"
O buckle an' tongue
Was the song that we sung
From Harrison's down to the Park!

There was a row in Silver Street -- the regiments was out,
They called us "Delhi Rebels", an' we answered "Threes about!"
That drew them like a hornet's nest -- we met them good an' large,
The English at the double an' the Irish at the charge.
Then it was: -- "Belts . . .

There was a row in Silver Street -- an' I was in it too;
We passed the time o' day, an' then the belts went whirraru!
I misremember what occurred, but subsequint the storm
A Freeman's Journal Supplemint was all my uniform.
O it was: -- "Belts . . .

There was a row in Silver Street -- they sent the Polis there,
The English were too drunk to know, the Irish didn't care;
But when they grew impertinint we simultaneous rose,
Till half o' them was Liffey mud an' half was tatthered clo'es.
For it was: -- "Belts . . .

There was a row in Silver Street -- it might ha' raged till now,
But some one drew his side-arm clear, an' nobody knew how;
'Twas Hogan took the point an' dropped; we saw the red blood run:
An' so we all was murderers that started out in fun.
While it was: -- "Belts . . .

There was a row in Silver Street -- but that put down the shine,
Wid each man whisperin' to his next: "'Twas never work o' mine!"
We went away like beaten dogs, an' down the street we bore him,
The poor dumb corpse that couldn't tell the bhoys were sorry for him.
When it was: -- "Belts . . .

There was a row in Silver Street -- it isn't over yet,
For half of us are under guard wid punishments to get;
'Tis all a merricle to me as in the Clink I lie:
There was a row in Silver Street -- begod, I wonder why!
But it was: -- "Belts, belts, belts, an' that's one for you!"
An' it was "Belts, belts, belts, an' that's done for you!"
O buckle an' tongue
Was the song that we sung
From Harrison's down to the Park!

-Kipling

The British sure have slipped!

cracked butt
June 17, 2005, 12:12 AM
Dang it, people already beat me to it- the UK is headed for an all Nerf society.

I read in the paper a few weeks ago, that William Wallace's Claymore was sent to the US for a short time for a museum exhibit. Its supposedly the first time the sword has ever left the Isles. Maybe we shouldn't send it back.

Pilgrim
June 17, 2005, 12:24 AM
"It's very much what they can lay their hands on at the time."

You don't suppose that this is one of the reasons that homo sapiens is at the top of the food chain, do you?

Pilgrim

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
June 17, 2005, 03:48 AM
Just a suggestion...

Rebuild Hadrian's Wall and throw the English out...again.

Regards,
Rabbit.

peacefuljeffrey
June 17, 2005, 04:09 AM
I think that the germain thing in the article is this:
"There's definitely a need to reduce the availability of knives. We have had a significant number of murders where people have gone and bought horrendous hunting knives with seven-inch blades."


What on EARTH does that mean?! When a person says, "There's definitely a need to reduce the availability of knives," exactly what is he thinking of doing? How would government control the number of knives available per capita? Without making knives completely unavailable, in a legal sense of being able to buy them in a store or from a catalog or the internet, how would "availability" of knives be controlled? It seems nonsensical to me to even say such a thing. :banghead:

What's so horrendous about a seven-inch-bladed hunting knife, if the person who owns it is not murderous? Absolutely nothing. But by contrast, there is grave danger from a person who IS murderous even when he does NOT own a seven-inch-bladed hunting knife. This is the plain, obvious logic that these utter freakin' morons in the U.K. are not able to understand. That non-knife-owning would-be murderer, even though he has no knife, can make himself a lethal danger to those around him with many, many perfectly legal objects and materials.

I notice that even though they say that these crimes are often due to alcohol abuse, NO ONE IS SUGGESTING BANNING THE CONSUMPTION OF ALCOHOL, even as they ARE suggesting banning very useful tools that have been used by mankind for millennia. :banghead: Buncha :cuss: idiots. I hope their society crumbles into dust. They deserve it for being so :cuss: stupid.

-Jeffrey

cracked butt
June 17, 2005, 04:22 AM
They should ban and confiscate all automobiles also. One can make a satisfactory machete or knife out of a leafspring. Oh and ban files and grinders too.

hifi
June 17, 2005, 04:33 AM
. . . a disturbing recent phenomenon was the use of belt buckles as weapons.

Every article I've read out of England or Scotland in the past ten years has been more and more disturbing....it just never ends...

I'm gonna go give my Swiss army knife a hug.

G36-UK
June 17, 2005, 07:53 AM
G6-UK, as our resident Scot I just gotta ask a question. Has the gooberment cut back on the whiskey you guys can produce? Something has happened to your nutrition which has created the "pacifist scot". I have a hard time imagining the existance of such an individual yet evidently they seem to run the country.

To be honest, I ain't got a clue. Most of us just lap up the sh**e that comes out of the Parliaments now.

Fortunately, some of us have retained our mistrust of big government. I don't see how they can think any more bans will work, considering how they ar*ed up the Brocock ban. Load of bollocks, IMHO.

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