(CA) URGENT: Bill to effectively BAN HANDGUN AMMO NOW IN COMMITTEE!!!


PDA






Beethoven
June 16, 2005, 05:56 PM
One last chance to stop this from getting to the Governator.

SB 357 (Dunn) is a bill that would require individual serial numbers to be etched on each and every handgun bullet sold in CA, down to AND INCLUDING .22LR.


The bill PASSED from the Senate and is now in the Assembly Public Safety Committee.



MAKE PHONE CALLS, WRITE LETTERS AND SEND EMAILS AND FAXES EVEN IF YOU DO NOT LIVE IN CA. IT IS PROVEN THAT LEGISLATION SPAWNED IN THIS COMMUNIST HELLHOLE WILL SPREAD TO OTHER STATES.


CONTACT INFO FOR THE ASSEMBLY PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE: TELL THEM TO OPPOSE SB 357!!!!!!



Mark Leno, Chair Dem-13 (916) 319-2013 Assemblymember.leno@assembly.ca.gov

Jay La Suer, Vice Chair Rep-77 (916) 319-2077 Assemblymember.Lasuer@assembly.ca.gov

Rebecca Cohn Dem-24 (916) 319-2024 Assemblymember.Cohn@assembly.ca.gov

Mervyn M. Dymally Dem-52 (916) 319-2052 Assemblymember.dymally@assembly.ca.gov

Jackie Goldberg Dem-45 (916) 319-2045 Assemblymember.Goldberg@assembly.ca.gov

Todd Spitzer Rep-71 (916) 319-2071 Assemblymember.spitzer@assembly.ca.gov

Committee phone: (916) 319-3744

Committee Email public.safety@assembly.ca.gov

If you enjoyed reading about "(CA) URGENT: Bill to effectively BAN HANDGUN AMMO NOW IN COMMITTEE!!!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
heypete
June 16, 2005, 06:42 PM
Letters have been sent!

Beethoven
June 16, 2005, 06:45 PM
Thank You!!!!!!!! :D

dasmi
June 16, 2005, 06:46 PM
Same here. I know Jay La Suer will vote against it, at least.

Guns_and_Labs
June 16, 2005, 06:54 PM
Letters sent, calls made, prayers for wisdom made.

DigitalWarrior
June 16, 2005, 07:10 PM
to bring up the Free State Project again? Come with me to New Hampshire. together we can do good things.

Gordon Fink
June 16, 2005, 07:19 PM
Without a doubt, Leno, Cohn, Dymally, and Goldberg will vote for the bill. :(

~G. Fink

cracked butt
June 16, 2005, 07:24 PM
I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I feel for you guys in California, good luck!

MrTuffPaws
June 16, 2005, 08:38 PM
Thanks for the heads up.

Here is the letter I sent:


STOP! Just stop what you are doing, forget the do gooding, and the children, and the puppies. You need to stop and listen to me.

You are one of the last hopes that California gun owners have. You need to consider your vote on SB357 very carefully. SB357 will not prevent crime. People will still be shot, murders will still happen. Also, it is very questionable if SB357 will even help solve crime. It is just too easily defeated by anyone with premeditation.

What SB357 is though, is a tremendous burden on gun owners. I and everyone else who owns a handgun will be horribly inconvenienced and also put at legal risk. How does the saying go? “Out law unmarked ammo and only criminals will have it.” How can you let simple possession without intent become a crime?

If you want to make gun crime more punished, then please, by all means punish the criminals who commit it and not the law abiding gun owners. Use a gun in a crime? 20 years with no parole. Discharge a gun while committing a crime? 50 years with no parole. Injure, maim, or kill with a gun during a crime? Life without parole.

Punish the ones who commit the crimes; don’t give me a felony if I happen to get caught with an unmarked bullet. If I do a crime, fine, hang me if you want, but punishing me for something that I happen to have on my person, that I do not plan on committing a crime with??? Come on.

goalie
June 17, 2005, 03:27 AM
It seems that California is approaching critical mass. Ammunition may end up being turned in minus the primers, powder, and case. Nobody wants a civil war, but I am afraid that a civil war/massive civil unrest is what it will take for the elected officials of California to realize that they have gone too far.

I hope it doesn't pass.

hifi
June 17, 2005, 04:38 AM
They went too far a long, long time ago.

Beethoven
June 17, 2005, 12:34 PM
Bump.

kbheiner7
June 17, 2005, 01:56 PM
It seems that California is approaching critical mass. Ammunition may end up being turned in minus the primers, powder, and case. Nobody wants a civil war, but I am afraid that a civil war/massive civil unrest is what it will take for the elected officials of California to realize that they have gone too far.

I'm afraid you are correct. Unless this leads to some serious political unrest, the 2nd Amendment as a whole will be dealt a serious blow.

It seems clear to me that the state government of California is far past the letters of concerned citizens. There are not enough of those concerned citizens to change the political climate in the state.

Jefferson once called for the blood of tyrants. While I am very afraid to see things come to that, I am more afraid of the alternative. :mad:

R.H. Lee
June 17, 2005, 02:20 PM
blech. I really don't this this will become law, and even if it does will not result in 'civil war'. It is unenforceable on any practical level and will most assuredly result in massive civil disobedience. In other words, most California gunowners will quietly find ways to avoid compliance.

boofus
June 17, 2005, 02:23 PM
I'm itching for a fight. Where do I sign up? I'll crash at Skunkabilly's :evil:

autospike
June 17, 2005, 02:28 PM
Bttt

Gordon Fink
June 17, 2005, 03:34 PM
It is unenforceable on any practical level and will most assuredly result in massive civil disobedience. In other words, most California gunowners will quietly find ways to avoid compliance.

Correction: millions of armed felons will find ways to avoid compliance.

~G. Fink, who has no intention to comply

Beethoven
June 19, 2005, 06:36 PM
Bump.

jefnvk
June 19, 2005, 07:10 PM
Riley and Fink are right. I doubt very much that this will cause a civil war.

BenW
June 19, 2005, 08:57 PM
blech. I really don't this this will become law,
Actually I have to say I'm feeling there's a better than 50/50 chance the Governor will veto SB357 (though I'm still making a stink about it to my reps).

What I'm afraid of is that he'll veto SB357 and then sign AB352 in order to show he's "working with everyone." It wouldn't be much different than what he did re: signing the 50 ban but vetoing the ammo tax.

Can'thavenuthingood
June 19, 2005, 10:10 PM
Practicality and enforceability have nuthin to do with it. What happens is that it becomes just another law on the books to "pile on" to whatever the original reason for LE to look at you.

It becomes another success story for the potlickers and the brady bunch.

If either one get to Arnold's desk, its a sign of our weakness.

We'll be picked off one at a time for non related issues, after all, they are just doing their job.

Amazing,

Vick

beerslurpy
June 19, 2005, 10:17 PM
Remember that guy who got sent to jail for having 5 tracers on his property? He was raided for being a political nuisance in SoCal, but it was the BS tracer law that got him.

Selfdfenz
June 19, 2005, 11:37 PM
I hope for the best for you guys in Cali.
I hope common sense will prevail.

If I owned a range in Cali I would be very afraid I might just be out-of-business for want of any product to sell if this law passed.

I do know one thing. I don't live in Cali but if this passes I'll never buy another round of ammo from any manufacturer that agrees to participate in this outrage of a law by marketing ammo so marked.

S-

Beethoven
June 20, 2005, 12:41 PM
Bump.

Beethoven
June 21, 2005, 12:56 PM
Nice to see so many people care..... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :barf: :barf: :barf:

Lennyjoe
June 21, 2005, 01:18 PM
Folks, this isnt only a California thing. Everyone knows how this stuff can bleed off to other states. Its everyone's duty to get involved now before the damn breaks.

Letters sent!

Beethoven
June 21, 2005, 01:19 PM
Thanks Lenny!!!!

How are the Warthogs treating you? :)

Lennyjoe
June 21, 2005, 06:53 PM
They are starting to show their age.

Beethoven
June 22, 2005, 01:48 PM
Bump.

R.H. Lee
June 22, 2005, 02:09 PM
There’s not much people in other states can do about it, Beethoven. You know how corrupt our California legislature is. You know how they have gerrymandered the districts to insure re-election time and time again. They could care less what their ‘constituents’ think, let alone somebody from another state. Add the fact that the California Republican party is no more than a bunch of do-nothing elitist country club types, and the NRA doesn’t seem to expend any resources here (but they love to fund raise; I must get a letter every week from them).

This legislation is so horrible and so unworkable, I can’t help but believe it’s political ploy to attack Schwarzenegger with in the future.

QuickDraw
June 22, 2005, 07:56 PM
Add the fact that the California Republican party is no more than a bunch of do-nothing elitist country club types, and the NRA doesn’t seem to expend any resources here (but they love to fund raise; I must get a letter every week from them).

Amen to that Brother!!

I let my NRA membership expire about 3 years ago
after I sent them a letter asking what exactly my dues
were paying for in California.Their response was how
they were doing this and that in other states and
at the .gov level.All very well,but didn't answer my
question. :banghead:

QuickDraw

4570Rick
June 23, 2005, 05:18 AM
There’s not much people in other states can do about it

I beg to disagree. I have learned from a reliable source that Federal was the ONLY munitions company in Sacramento this week.
Everyone needs write, call, e-mail and ask what they were doing in Sac this week and do they think we, the shooting public will support them by buying their product if they support SB 357. Olin and Remington have said they wont.

This is my declaration of war with anyone who supports this POS!!! That includes Federal Ammunition!!! :cuss: :cuss:

4570Rick
June 23, 2005, 05:28 AM
the NRA doesn’t seem to expend any resources here

The NRA is USING CA as an example to the other states of what NOT to do.

This is not a winning program. :fire:

jpIII
June 23, 2005, 08:15 AM
but if this passes I'll never buy another round of ammo from any manufacturer that agrees to participate in this outrage of a law by marketing ammo so marked.


I wholeheartedly agree.

Beethoven
June 27, 2005, 02:51 PM
both Ab 352 And Sb 357 Are Scheduled To Be Heard Tomorrow, Tuesday June 28!!!!!!

Call And Write, Call And Write!!!!

Beethoven
June 28, 2005, 12:13 PM
Bump.

fjolnirsson
June 28, 2005, 12:28 PM
Good Luck, folks.....

fletcher
June 28, 2005, 02:31 PM
Those of you "in the loop" on this thing please keep the rest of us updated. Here's to hoping it doesn't go any further...

Gewehr98
June 28, 2005, 02:49 PM
IT IS PROVEN THAT LEGISLATION SPAWNED IN THIS COMMUNIST HELLHOLE WILL SPREAD TO OTHER STATES.
Sources? Examples?

Perata's SB-23 never spread beyond the PRK border, and as a matter of fact, the '94 AWB expired on this side. :scrutiny:

RoyG
June 28, 2005, 03:07 PM
Sources? Examples?
the EPA is going to be cracking down on motorcycles. ... (http://www.pegmonkey.com/node/45)
The EPA rules set new emissions standards that are the same as those adopted by the state of California, but will go into effect two years after California's standards. The first tier of the new national standards will go into effect in 2006 and a second tier in 2010

CentralTexas
June 28, 2005, 03:15 PM
one o fyou cali guys give us a list of ammo companies to call and tell we wont support/buy their product if they go along with this.
CT

rick_reno
June 28, 2005, 03:21 PM
Let us know what happens with this today. If nothing else, it's interesting to watch.

Selfdfenz
June 28, 2005, 10:34 PM
Tuesday has come and gone.

Any news?

S-

dolanp
June 28, 2005, 10:53 PM
Doesn't look good.

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=49607


Interesting op-ed on liberal priority (source (http://www.metnews.com/articles/2005/inmyopinion062805.htm)):
But while these gun bills have passed the floor in their house of origin, bills to extend parole periods and require GPS tracking of sex offenders (SB 1044), prevent felons from owning sex offender group homes (SB 1046), keep sex offender group homes away from schools (SB 1051), and create a one-strike punishment for certain sex crimes against children (SB 448) have been defeated or stalled in Sacramento by the Democrat majority.

Do you feel safer yet?

SIGarmed
June 28, 2005, 11:08 PM
These bills both AB 352 and SB 357 still have to go for a full vote before they get to the Governor and he vetoed every gun bill last year except for AB 50 the .50 BMG ban.

You really need to contact your representatives and the Governor so that he can veto it. Get everyone you know to contact them! Some manufacturers are saying they won't comply with SB 357 which is good.

Remington is one of the first right here:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=144616&highlight=remington

JitsuGuy
June 28, 2005, 11:37 PM
Hmmm, the unPatriot Acts now this.... It's starting to resemble something that happened 60 something years ago somewhere else...

rick_reno
June 29, 2005, 02:55 AM
If I'm reading it right - AB 352 on the assembly floor today got 41 Yes votes and 38 No votes.
All they're saying about SB 357 is that it had a hearing scheduled for 6/28 before ASM PUBLIC SAFETY.

You can get bill info here http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/bilinfo.html
They're usually very good at updating it.

Rebar
June 29, 2005, 03:21 AM
Simply put, all ammo manufacturers should refuse to sell ANY ammo to CA law enforcement. Like Barrett did.

4570Rick
June 29, 2005, 05:18 AM
You really need to contact your representatives
My rep is Joe Dunn :cuss: My contact with the guy pushing the bill would most certenly get me in trouble. :mad:

cortez kid
June 29, 2005, 06:49 AM
This garbage will never pass in Pa , but in support of my fellow gunowner's, I will never buy ammo from any company that complies with this abomination.
kid

dolanp
June 29, 2005, 11:38 AM
Let the good old CA government start making their own ammunition for LE so they can just sue themselves for 'victim's rights'. That'll be nice.

Librarian
June 29, 2005, 09:52 PM
If I'm reading it right - AB 352 on the assembly floor today got 41 Yes votes and 38 No votes. That was June 2; that's why the bill is in the Senate this week, that June 2 vote moved it out of the Assembly for consideration by the other house.

Yesterday it was 6/28/05 - AB 352 was amended and passed the Senate Public Safety committee today. That means if AB 352 passes the Senate, it will have to go back to the Assembly floor for another vote. The next stop for AB 352 is the Senate Appropiations Committee. See NRA Member's Council (http://nramemberscouncils.com/legs.shtml#ab352)

Carnitas
June 29, 2005, 10:42 PM
Just sent another e-mail to my assemblyman.


"I'm writing reguarding SB357.

In reading the Assembly Commitee Bill Analysis I found several errors which overstate the feasibility and attractiveness of the legislation.
1)On page 11, first paragraph, it states that costs to manufacturers would be minimal ($300 to $500k) for the engraving material. While this may be a reasonable cost of the engraving equipment, it ignores the fact that they would have to change their process to create lots of 50 instead of 10's of throusands. It also ignores the fact that for the information to be usable for crime fighting chain-of-custody would have to be maintained through the whole process. Also, with criminal prosecution in the wind for any mistakes in manufacture or distribution its reasonable to expect that higher profits would be expected by all persons in the distribution chain.

2) Also on page 11. There is a comment relating to Fifth Amendment "Takings" clause problems which may be associated with this bill. Glaringly absent is any mention of a 2nd Amendment problem. Proposing a Second Amendment that didnt include ammo is like proposing a First Amendment that doesnt include paper for the printing press.

3) On page 14 under the "Arguements Against". Representative of all the major ammunition manufactures have made statements in opposition to this legislation. Their comments are nicely summarised at www.saami.org. If the comments of the people who would actually be charged with complying with this legislation are not germain I cant imagine what is.

4) The document ignores the fact that numbered ammunition has never been commercially produced. The proponents of this bill cannot place in your hand a single box of comercially produced serialized ammo. This point should be made in the analysis.

I dont know how to, or who to write to correct these defficiencies.... Since you're my Assemblyman, I'm bringing it to you. I trust you'll forward my concerns to the proper persons.

Sincerely,"

Gewehr98
June 29, 2005, 11:49 PM
the EPA is going to be cracking down on motorcycles. ...

And that's another PRK gun law that made it to the free states. :rolleyes:

If you enjoyed reading about "(CA) URGENT: Bill to effectively BAN HANDGUN AMMO NOW IN COMMITTEE!!!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!