"Ball and socket" personal weapons mount


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Slater
June 16, 2005, 11:26 PM
http://www.darkhorse-acre.com/docs/rbsbasic.pdf

Hot seller or flop?

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heypete
June 16, 2005, 11:49 PM
I say "flop" -- I can't imagine restricting the motion of my weapon to the physical limits of an artificial joint. Although one should always be facing/looking where the weapon points, what if you need to change shoulders (useful when clearing buildings, for example), or need to point the weapon in a direction that you're not facing (say you get knocked down on your back and need to shoot at a weird angle)?

Interesting concept, but I can't see it as being that useful.

Preacherman
June 17, 2005, 12:15 AM
It's an exceedingly DUMB idea!!!

1. What if you need your weapon when you're not wearing body armor?

2. What if you need to change shoulders for corner clearance, or use a tucked stance to promote weapon retention?

3. What happens when (note that it's when, not if - Murphy is alive and well and living in combatland) the socket joint breaks, or is broken (e.g. by flying fragments, etc.) and you want to use your weapon?

4. What happens if your weapon breaks and you need to transition to a longarm with a conventional stock?

Etcetera, etcetera. Really, REALLY bad idea! :fire:

fistful
June 17, 2005, 01:43 AM
I'm not saying I favor this gadget, but I think some objections so far are short-sighted. It does seem that a ball joint would be rather unstable for good marksmanship. And how workable is that snap-down thing? Still not as bad as the Safety Bullet.

What if you need your weapon when you're not wearing body armor?

What happens if your weapon breaks and you need to transition to a longarm with a conventional stock?

I think these could be addressed by putting a ball on the toe (bottom corner) of a conventional stock, rather than replacing the old stock altogether.

2. What if you need to change shoulders for corner clearance, or use a tucked stance to promote weapon retention?

I can't imagine restricting the motion of my weapon to the physical limits of an artificial joint....what if you need...to point the weapon in a direction that you're not facing (say you get knocked down on your back and need to shoot at a weird angle)?
Put a socket on each shoulder. Presumably, the ball will pull out of the socket, or can be modified to do so easily enough. By tucked stance, do you mean one where the butt is under the arm? If so, what's the problem? Sorry if I have the wrong idea.


What happens when ...the socket joint breaks...and you want to use your weapon? What happens when your less-than-rugged M16 buttstock breaks? The socket can be made tougher if need be, without much extra weight.

These could also be addressed with a ball mounted on the toe of the stock, and a socket mounted further down, where it will be a retention device rather than a pivot point.

Owen
June 17, 2005, 02:59 AM
The M16 stock is fragile?

bogie
June 17, 2005, 10:22 AM
I wonder how long it takes, from picking up the rifle, to firing the first shot.

Henry Bowman
June 17, 2005, 11:41 AM
Generally, I agree with fistful on this one. It will be slow to catch on in any event. Even if useful, I've seen enough inventions like this to know that success is slow in coming, if at all.

Wonder if they need a patent attorney?

fistful
June 17, 2005, 08:23 PM
The M16 stock is fragile? Didn't say fragile, but is it really known for it's durability? And then there is that cheesy, plastic adjustable stock. How tough could that be?

All I meant to say about the M16 buttstock is that the socket could be just as tough if built correctly.

psyopspec
June 17, 2005, 08:53 PM
I agree completely with preacherman's criticisms. Here's a few more.

Overseas, a lot of guys had 3 point slings. Some made ranger slings, or just used the standard issue one. I spent a lot of time on my feet and in crowds, but didn't go for the three-pointer. I spent cheap and bought a carabiner, which I used to clip a regular sling to the shoulder of my tac vest. It's a dandy system for the soldier on a budget. The only thing I didn't like about the carabiner method was that all that weight ended up on one shoulder. At the end of the day, having all that weight on one side did nothing for my "anthropometrics" (pg. 2).

Really it was more of a discomfort, but the way these guys make it sound, it's easier on the body to have one point bearing all the weight than to spread it out as with a three point sling. Having used the carabiner method (a more or less static system like the one presented) and a three point sling (dynamic, spreading the weight out), I gotta say the three point sling is a lot more comfortable. I didn't start to laugh until I got to this part though.
From the ad:

Easily retrofitted to existing weapons such as the M4/M16 and M249 Squad Automatic Rifle.

How bout calling it a Squad Automatic Weapon, or SAW for short? Nitpicky I know, but consider their target market. If an M-16 with a 203 attached is any indication, I would NOT want to have a 249 hanging off my shoulder all day, as this would bungle up my anthropometrics beyond repair. By noon I'd be praying I had the padded shoulder sling that came with the weapon so I could at least shift positions now and then.

Also, how does it hold up to water, ice, diesel, sun, sand, impact, etc?

It's an innovative idea, something new, and who knows, something truly useful may come of it. But as is, no thanks. I'll stick with a Blackhawk 3-point or my Lowe's carabiner.

Edited to add: The M-16 stock is far from fragile. If you want something that breaks under pressure, look for Mike Tyson at a spelling bee.

boofus
June 17, 2005, 08:56 PM
This is the only weapon I'd consider wearing. :p

http://members.aol.com/M56SG/sg11.jpg

Have they considered a hydraulic recoil-dampening arm for the Barrett M82 and making it full auto? :evil:

fistful
June 20, 2005, 04:02 AM
Having used the BS mount on a daily basis in Iraq, Afghanistan, the Philipines and Somalia for the past fifteen years, I can attest to it's unrestrained magnificence. I find I always shoot better with the BS, whether with M4, AK, RPG, Glock or even sling shot. I used one mount on each shoulder, one on the center of the chest, and one at each hip for when I really need to lay down some lead. Like that time in Tora Bora, when I saw Osama about 125 yards off - wait - nevermind. Sorry, national security, can't discuss that.

Where was I? Oh, I use it when hunting too. Dick and I, Cheney, I mean, were in a blind in Arkansas a while back when some canvasbacks came in high. The Vice was just mounting his piece when I swung the Benelli up from it's mount and took out two or three ducks easy. Then I switched to the laser-sighted M16 A4 on my left shoulder and shot about six more. Dick got bupkis.

I make sure to have the BS at all times. Whether at the mall, at my civilian job, or just hangin' out with friends, the BS never fails to impress, makes me feel more secure and confident, and improves my aim, speed and stamina. At the Saint Louis Arch, the other day, some terrorists showed up. The ninja guards then on duty were totally surprised and easily reduced. But with my MP-5, flame-thrower and pump-action grenade launcher all mounted on BS mounts, I killed each terrorist with one shot, barbecued them, and fed them to the other tourists. Man, that was a great day.

That night was even better. The BS has it's place in the bedroom, too, if you know what I mean. :cool:

Cosmoline
June 20, 2005, 04:19 AM
Yeah, gimme one of those smart guns.

Azrael256
June 20, 2005, 04:48 AM
Yeah, not seeing this one work. So I'm supposed to be able to rapidly transition from a carry to a shooting position, but we're adding the step of snapping the little ball into the socket? We're making the process faster by lengthening and complexifying it... Something doesn't add up here. Swinging the rifle up from the system's carry position to the firing position seems like a decent idea out in the open, but moving around inside a building with a 3' pole sticking out of my chest is going to be difficult. This system is going to make moving around a corner or through a tight space weapon first impossible without disconnecting the weapon from the shoulder piece, and that means you'd be reattaching the ball piece while you should be shooting if somebody is around that corner. I would also pay to see that guy in the picture belly crawl with that thing on, much less belly crawl and fire.

fistful
June 20, 2005, 04:55 AM
What is a belly crawl? You really seem into that. Maybe you should drop an e-mail to the website, and they could give you his number. You two could get together sometime. Let us know if it works out.

Azrael256
June 20, 2005, 05:16 AM
Lol.

Ok, ok, I guess I left myself wide open for that. Perhaps I should clarify. I would pay to watch that guy, or anybody else (With a few notable exceptions. You know who you are.) try to crawl while wearing that rig to demonstrate the inherent difficulty with trying to move and shoot from a prone position with the rifle attached to the body.

Owen
June 20, 2005, 09:23 AM
You go hunting with THE Dick Cheney! From the Illuminatti, I mean, Halliburton!!?? :D

dsb
June 20, 2005, 11:01 AM
This is sort of interesting to me - at least from the viewpoint of prosthetics designed for use with firearms. My son was born without most of his right arm and with missing fingers and a fused elbow on his left. He is only two right now , but at some point I know I will be looking into what I can do to get him shooting if he wants to.

Owen
June 20, 2005, 11:32 AM
DSB

It's a little early now, but you may want to try to get hooked up with the Wheelin' Sportsmen, a group of disabled hunters.

Wheelin' Sportsmen (http://www.wheelinsportsmen.org/wheelin/?SUBSITE=wheelin)

They are associated with the NWTF.

fistful
June 20, 2005, 10:07 PM
THE Dick Cheney! From the Illuminatti, I mean, Halliburton!!?? Who else do you think is paying these skeptical stooges to dump on the BS? (How much is the Vice payin' you, Preach?)

When Dick saw the awesome power of a fully operational BS, he determined right away that only the elite troops of the Neo-Con Dawn Revolutionary Corps would have it. That's why everybody talks so bad about it - they're bought off. When we come for you with our BS systems, you'll have no choice but to fall in line under the New World Order.


Your great intellect is no match for our puny weapons!

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