How marijuana gets into the U.S….


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tomdunn421
June 17, 2005, 08:50 PM
I thought to post this thread after reading a pretty crazy article in this months playboy mag where the reporter gained access (don't know how) to the inner workings of a huge Canadian smuggling operation. The shop brings in about $20 million in profits per year (1 driver was making $100K per month…just sick). They talk about using helicopters to bring in hundreds of pounds at once, which is actually a pretty smart idea (being that the U.S. can’t patrol the entire border.) Any1 else read this yet?

- J

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heypete
June 17, 2005, 08:55 PM
I haven't heard of that. Unless they're using Chinooks (Or ****hooks, as we called them in the army), they'll need to make a lot of flights. Marijuana is light but bulky, and requires a fair amount for any decent value.

Also, the FAA gets picky about who flys where. Yes, there's probably no ATC radars up by the border, as the number of air corridors and/or major airports is not very high. Still, there's plenty of old military bases, missile fields, and so forth that probably have good radars.

Why not just bring the dope in by U-Haul truck? No need to stop at weigh-stations, say "Oh, we're moving down here..." and the Border Patrol'll wave you right through, if they stop you at all. Big U-Haul trucks are cheap.

Joe Meyer
June 17, 2005, 08:57 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if the U.S. Border Patrol helps smuggle it into the U.S. :scrutiny: :confused:

316SS
June 17, 2005, 09:28 PM
Certainly weed is smuggled into this country, but I suspect the vast majority is grown domestically. I understand its straightforward and very profitable to grow it outdoors. All you need is some secluded property.

316

Art Eatman
June 17, 2005, 09:36 PM
Or, outa Mexico, anything from a peon with a backpack to a half-dozen burros with some 150 to 200 pounds each.

Another ploy is to "sacrifice" a peon with some 50 or 60 pounds in a 20-year-old pickup. After he's arrested, the LEOs haul him off to the juzga'o and then a truckload with a ton or two comes on up the empty road. Sorta like sending out the ends and wide receivers and then tossing a pass to the fullback coming out of the backfield...

Some conventional aircraft get used, as well. I was putting the roof on my garage, up on the mountainside some 200 feet above Terlingua creek. I heard an airplane. I kept looking up; it first sounded like a jet and then like a BIG jet. Sure enough, coming down Terlingua Creek valley, headed for Mexico, I saw it: A DC-8--and I was looking DOWN at it. About 100 or 150 feet off the deck, he was boogeying on down to Señoritaland...

They's sneaky lil fellers.

:), art

bigjim
June 17, 2005, 09:43 PM
Hey art it would have been cool if you had a stinger huh?

Sindawe
June 17, 2005, 09:49 PM
I would suspect that most of the domestic production is indoors, since from what I've seen on the glass teat, Cannabis sp has a distinct shade of green, and shows up quite well in the Infrared bands. Outdoors its too easy to spot and for the cops to grab.

Biker
June 17, 2005, 09:53 PM
Fact is, most of the pot AND meth comes in from Mexico. Our gubbermint knows this and approves of it, through inaction if nothing else. Incidentally, I would classify meth as a WMD. JMO....
Biker

Pward
June 17, 2005, 09:54 PM
Cock County TN
#1 crop
This county out Produces the the state of Hawaii in the growth of Marijuana. :what:
So I think this plant grows quite well in the states.

DMF
June 17, 2005, 10:00 PM
Marijuana is light but bulky, and requires a fair amount for any decent value. No, the high concentration of THC stuff (15-20%), like BC Bud, will fetch as much as $8000/lb in the US, but the street value in BC is only about $2000/lb. A pound of MJ is not all that bulky, especially when packed tightly. Growers that produce high potency MJ can make a huge profit.

http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/intel/01001-intellbrief.pdf

Croyance
June 17, 2005, 10:03 PM
Enough is home grown to make it less than cost effective to grow in Canada.
It isn't just the leading crop of Tennessee, but Kentucky as well.
I have known of people growing it on farms alongside their regular crops. I knew of a set up where a person used a pneumatic press to compact the stuff down.

DMF
June 17, 2005, 10:09 PM
Croyance, I know there is a lot of domestic weed being grown, but the reality is there is a very strong demand for BC Bud, and it fetches a high price.

As for how it gets here, if you can think of it, some idiots probably already tried it, or is about to. :rolleyes:

publius
June 17, 2005, 10:09 PM
I figured the market pretty much relied on cancer patients out in California (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=141812). I guess it'll die out now.

beerslurpy
June 17, 2005, 10:16 PM
About 100 or 150 feet off the deck, he was boogeying on down to Señoritaland...

Anyone want to bet that he got that training on uncle sam's dollar originally?

Not making a point since I dont really care about marijuana (except as a federalism and mind your own business issue), but I would bet that a lot of former air force pilots can make solid money in the extra-legal transport business. Flying ultra-low is probably also fun in a way that flying UPS planes isnt.

neoncowboy
June 17, 2005, 10:44 PM
but I would bet that a lot of former air force pilots can make solid money in the extra-legal transport business. Flying ultra-low is probably also fun in a way that flying UPS planes isnt.

Um, let's have a reality check here:

1. If you're a former AF pilot, you can work wherever you want to in aviation. UPS/FedEx are yours for the taking. That's a comfortable career with excellent job security in an increasingly volatile and unstable industry.

2. If you get caught doing what was described, you lose your certificates. POOF - no more flying career for you.

I would like to think that men with the discipline and work ethic to make it as AF aviation officers would not be the type to scud-run to mexico for a reefer run in a beat to hell old airplane with the DEA taking satelite photos of the whole thing.

Art Eatman
June 17, 2005, 11:16 PM
neoncowboy, I dunno about nowadays, but at one time a heckuva lot of the smuggler pilots were ex-Vietnam era USAF or Army. The civilian world was just too boring. Not enough adrenalin rush.

A lot of the fighter pilots and chopper pilots just weren't wired up to enjoy being bus drivers.

Art

beerslurpy
June 17, 2005, 11:19 PM
I would think the kind of think-on-your-feet mentality that serves one well in combat wouldnt necessarily be a great match with FAA rules and regs, but would be a great match with flying smuggling craft.

Birukun
June 17, 2005, 11:54 PM
Lets not forget what is produced here domestically by folks from Mexico....

CCW in a National Park (not allowed) or in a National Forest (allowed, I think) is necessary, especially if you are hiking remote areas of California.

http://www.dpeg.org/drugs_illegal/marijuana/Sequoia_park_pot.htm

Bill in SD

hifi
June 18, 2005, 12:36 AM
Was there any mention of C-130's in Florida flying out loaded with guns and flying back in loaded with cocaine? ;)

stevelyn
June 18, 2005, 01:03 AM
Our own Alaska grown Matanuska Thunderf**k is in the 28-31% THC range and is worth $35k/lb as an export crop. The buds have so much resin that they'll stick when you throw them against a wall and the fingers on latex gloves stick together from handling it. :evil: :D

O.F.Fascist
June 18, 2005, 02:41 AM
DMF
Croyance, I know there is a lot of domestic weed being grown, but the reality is there is a very strong demand for BC Bud, and it fetches a high price.

Thanks to the bull???? war on drugs American famers are loosing out to Canadians.

If it were legalized we could have the full force of our agribusiness to grow the best damn marijuana in the world.

???? the war on drugs.

Sindawe
June 18, 2005, 04:11 AM
If it were legalized we could have the full force of our agribusiness to grow the best damn marijuana in the world. Yep. Americans have proven themselves to the most innovative, productive and foward looking agriculturalists in history. But for the bunch of racists, blue-noses and revenuers looking at having to get a real job nearly a century ago, we'd count Hemp and its uses among our triumphs. Instead we spend the lives and treasure of our nation in a futile effort to stamp out a common weed. :banghead:

Clean97GTI
June 18, 2005, 07:06 AM
Fact is, most of the pot AND meth comes in from Mexico. Our gubbermint knows this and approves of it, through inaction if nothing else. Incidentally, I would classify meth as a WMD. JMO....
Biker

Actually, over 50% of the pot consumed in the USA is grown in the country. Kinda hard to blame terrorism on imported drugs when most of the most popular drug in the USA is grown locally.

-Reefer Madness by Eric Schlosser.
Such a great book that gives a fantastic, unbiased point of view on some of the idiotic policies we currently live under.

Biker
June 18, 2005, 08:52 AM
To be more accurate, I was referring to the meth as the wmd. I really see no problem with pot. My point is, our Govt. is supposadly waging an all out war on drugs and terror and they leave the door wide open to dealers and terrorists.
But hey, bread and cicuses and all that, hmmmm?
Biker

dfaugh
June 18, 2005, 10:01 AM
about how MJ is grown indoors...Growers rent house/apartment, set up indoor "grow lights" etc, visit only occasionally, so if place gets found, no arrests, etc. Use high-tech growing methods like hydroponics, good fertilization Anyway, here was the stunning statistic (not sure how they figured it, nor how accurate)...They said that a small room full of plants, could generate $30,000/month worth of pot! Made me wonder why there was still so much smuggling going on.

RealGun
June 18, 2005, 11:00 AM
Yep. Retire one marijuana thread and start another...by someone with one prior post by the way. Nothing about guns, mind you. If gun owners were to be portrayed as dope heads and anarchists, there would be some evidence. I too have a number of interests which I won't share here, because they have absolutely no relation to gun issues.

I am not a moderator. Knock yourselves out, but I can express an opinion that THR has turned in questionable direction that I find increasingly alienating to an older phart. Okay, so many don't like the WOD. Yes, I have tried MJ in my misspent youth. Next subject, preferably more about guns. It's one thing to object to govt control and another matter entirely to endorse use of this poison, breaking the law in the process. Change the laws, maybe. Break the laws, give up your guns. The two subjects are not very compatible, once moving beyond misguided govt control efforts.

I object to focusing on user prosecution. However, making light of being a user is not cute. Using may be a private decision but it is still a vice, hardly essential, and it is against the law. Change the law perhaps...ignore the law...not cool. IMO being a user means that guns and freedom are not a priority. Actually, valuing getting high over all else would call ones whole program into question.

Art Eatman
June 18, 2005, 11:19 AM
No real argument, RealGun, but consider this: A very large part of the War on Guns has stemmed from the War on Drugs. The turf wars of the drug gangs, with the drive-by shootings, has been a large part of the emotional perceptions of crime and causation. Add to this the muggings and burglaries to get the money to buy Black Market drugs and you can see why there is resentment.

I really doubt that all that many here are all that pro-drug; we're mostly anti-methodology of the so-called War on Drugs. There are many ways to fight the drug problem without trampling all over the Bill of Rights.

Art

thorn726
June 18, 2005, 03:17 PM
yes , i had the pleasure of viewing a mini machine gun in CA several years back-
besides choppers there are also tons of backpackers running across the border.
british columbia commercial weed is grown by the ton it seems, and all by a vietnamese mob that carries lots of guns.
the quality is mediocre, the prices ultra low

we went to go get something and one guy handed the (uzi? mac 10? i dunno for sure) to his buddy.
i had never seen weapons around herb before, never necessary in that crowd.
so i ask guy "you really need that?" he says "my best friend- shot and killed," and goes on to list a few more dead people.
these guys are serious,
and only in it for the money

i dont like it. BUY California!!!

Fly320s
June 18, 2005, 03:47 PM
...after reading a pretty crazy article in this months playboy...
Now I know your foolin' me. Playboy doesn't have articles. :D :evil:

Camshaft
June 19, 2005, 01:35 AM
see my sig for my input on this thread.

c_yeager
June 19, 2005, 06:23 AM
Around here the vast majority comes from Canada, you know, the OTHER porous border that noone seems to worry about because those criminals blend in so much better.

Combat-wombat
June 19, 2005, 07:26 AM
Change the law perhaps...ignore the law...not cool.
People are trying to change the law, and especially with this recent supreme court ruling, it ain't working. As easy as it is for you to say, it ain't a matter of just going out and "changing the law". There's nothing "not cool" civil disobedience.

IMO being a user means that guns and freedom are not a priority.
Uhm, what? That makes no sense at all.

ThreadKiller
June 19, 2005, 08:50 AM
I haven't been able to find the map on the Internet but here's the news story (http://wfan.com/water/watercooler_story_168090308.html) anyway. It would be interesting to overlay the "blue/red" county map from '04 over the pot usage map of the US.

Who says pot doesn't make you stupid?

Tim

Destructo6
June 19, 2005, 08:04 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if the U.S. Border Patrol helps smuggle it into the U.S.
Why, because the USBP catches more pot in a month than most departments will seize in years? I saw an evidence locker in a Tucson sector station that had tons, literally thousands of pounds, of pot stacked shoulder-high. There was 1300 lbs that came from a single vehicle.

Yep, there's some bad apples, but they get caught before long.

Art Eatman
June 19, 2005, 08:55 PM
Dunno how I missed Man Of The Forest's "I wouldn't be surprised if the U.S. Border Patrol helps smuggle it into the U.S."

Seems to be in the running for some sort of award for "Gratuitous Insult of the Week". We know that no group is 100% perfect, and the accusation has indeed been made, but it's too rare an event to casually toss off as some ordinary expectation, a generality about the entire group. Not a lot different from some foolishness like "I wouldn't be surprised if the Forest People help poachers."

Art

Group9
June 20, 2005, 06:09 AM
How marijuana gets into the U.S….

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I thought to post this thread after reading a pretty crazy article in this months playboy mag where the reporter gained access (don't know how) to the inner workings of a huge Canadian smuggling operation. The shop brings in about $20 million in profits per year (1 driver was making $100K per month…just sick). They talk about using helicopters to bring in hundreds of pounds at once, which is actually a pretty smart idea (being that the U.S. can’t patrol the entire border.) Any1 else read this yet?

- J

That article is a joke. Marijuana dealers don't smuggle using helicopters. That's Hollywood and along with other stuff he says, makes me think the author made the whole thing up. Marijuana is bulky and a helicopter would be a horrible way to move any weight at all. Most marijuana gets hauled across the border in tractor trailer rigs and personal cars, but that is kind of boring. Helicopters are exciting.

And, I interview marijuana, cocaine, and meth couriers all of the time. None of them, repeat none of them, are not making $100,000 a month. They are generally throw away people, who are desperate and need money so bad they will haul the stuff for a lot less than that. Dope dealers know that couriers, like dope, is going to get caught from time to time, so you don't have anyone too important or irreplacable in the organization doing the driving.

That article is a good reminder that while you can't libel or defame anyone, there is no law that says what someone writes has to be true. When it comes to Playboy, just stick with looking at the pictures of naked women. :)

yesterdaysyouth
June 20, 2005, 06:22 AM
I have known of people growing it on farms alongside their regular crops. I knew of a set up where a person used a pneumatic press to compact the stuff down.

and here I thought I was the only one... :p

just drive down the road on any cool, humid, summer night, and take a good sniff... :uhoh:

Onmilo
June 20, 2005, 10:34 AM
Look, I can't prove this, but I hear that marijuana comes into the country as seeds stuck to the shoe treads of illegal immigrants,,,,,,,,,,,,,, :evil:

RealGun
June 20, 2005, 12:12 PM
I thought to post this thread

Why, because you noticed that THR displays a lot of interest in acquiring and using drugs? Great image for gun owners :(

Beren
June 20, 2005, 12:27 PM
Why, because you noticed that THR displays a lot of interest in acquiring and using drugs? Great image for gun owners

I don't see a whole lot of THR members advocating the use of drugs. I may be missing something. What I do see, and what I myself promote, is the freedom to use drugs. I won't go into the reasons for Yet Another Freaking Time, but I don't advocate their use. I advocate liberty, freedom, and the de-Nannization of government at all levels. It's your life - choose wisely, and reap what you sow.

Sindawe
June 20, 2005, 12:31 PM
What Beren said, +1

Crosshair
June 20, 2005, 02:47 PM
+1 for Beren. It's you're life, do what you want with it. As long as you're not hurting anyone else, do what you want.

Minnesota Shooter
June 20, 2005, 02:57 PM
My friends would always pick it up by the quarter pound and pound. It came bricked, literally, it was in the shape of, and had the density of a brick, they would have to literally peel strips of the junk off of it in order to sell. Since it was bricked like that, I could assume that it came in here, like most other drugs, in mass amounts. It was compressed like that in order to save space. In all likelyhood in the gastanks of large vehicles vacume packed in bags, which is much akin to how cocaine arrives here. There are endless places that you can stash pot in cars, especially when you have a U-haul at your disposal.

Most of the Really quality buds come from the west coast, where they are grown in hydroponic mini farms. I personally knew several people that were very into the cultivation aspect of the drug market. You had to be very careful though, as when you hook up several 1000 watt high pressure sodium lamps up in your home or where ever and leave them on for 4-8 hours at a time, your power bills Will skyrocket, which gives the feds or the local police enough to get a warrant, which, when you are growing that much illegal crap, a full blown police raid is definitely not a good thing.

Thats the way its always been, the crappy stuff comes from Mexico, in huge amounts, and the high grades either come from the north, i.e canada, or are grown here.

BlackCat
June 20, 2005, 03:19 PM
Does it seem silly to anyone else that a search warrant can be obtained because your power bill goes up?

:mad:

Minnesota Shooter
June 20, 2005, 03:32 PM
Silly, but believe me, its been done, many times. The thing is, they aren't talking about a small change. What needs to happen is a sudden and large incline in power usage. Also what some Narcotic units do is take a chopper equipped with certain gear that detects heat signatures and fly it over a suspected farm/house. If there is concentrated areas of heat in certain areas, thats enough to secure a warrant.

Another trick the police have used and still do is to park an undercover unit across the street from a growing shop, a place that sells lamps and all the material that you would need to start growing plants. The police write down the plate numbers and descriptions of anyone who they think looks out of place at a plant shop.

They then secure your address and put you on a list of all the other people suspected to be growing and moniter your power bills, etc etc...

All the tricks they have can be easily avoided however. What people I know would do is that they would turn off all, I mean, all the other devices in their houses that used electricity off, then they would turn their lamps on. Never would they have them both on at the same time.

As for the under covers outside of the plant shops, my buddies would simply have someone who isnt suspicious go in and buy them, i.e a friends mom who was cool with it all, or someone who had a clean record.

I'm not to sure about how to avoid the heat signatures, other than maybe having loads of AC units and layers upon layers of heat shielding material put up between the lamps and the house.

Minnesota Shooter
June 20, 2005, 03:39 PM
Oh and, for the record, I do not personally use, and have no affiliation with any form of illegal activities involving drugs. Maybe a couple of years ago, but with the USMC, you don't have much time to do that crap.

I am not encouraging anyone to go off and use, nor am I promoting distrubtion it at all. I simply have information regarding what the topic is based on.




Why, because you noticed that THR displays a lot of interest in acquiring and using drugs? Great image for gun owners

Realgun, no disrespect towards you or anything, but in reading through this thread, I noticed not one post asking about how to get or how to use drugs.

People are simply curious to how it gets in here thats all.

Group9
June 21, 2005, 01:43 AM
Does it seem silly to anyone else that a search warrant can be obtained because your power bill goes up?

Yes, it is silly, because it is not true. Unless there are a lot of other indicators that there is a grow operation, the fact that someone has a high power bill might just mean they are too lazy to turn off their lights.

But, I'll just let the dope growers keep trying to guess what those other indicators are.

And, it is refreshing to find so many people who don't use illegal drugs but just think they should be legalized on the general principle of the thing. ;)

thorn726
June 21, 2005, 03:15 AM
Silly, but believe me, its been done, many times. The thing is, they aren't talking about a small change. What needs to happen is a sudden and large incline in power usage. Also what some Narcotic units do is take a chopper equipped with certain gear that detects heat signatures and fly it over a suspected farm/house. If there is concentrated areas of heat in certain areas, thats enough to secure a warrant.

NONSENSE. this WAS done TEN or 20 years ago.

then a federal judge in Oregon ruled this was not reason enough for a search.
a clothes dryer can send off enough heat.
these infrared sweeps are not happening ever since, they are a violation of privacy

3 computers on all the time use as much electricity as a 1000 watt light on a grow cycle. (HA! funny thing about that- which was it really that caused the brownouts in CA 2 years ago? the new computers or the new lights?)


TRUE= if someone reports you or cops have other reasons to suspect you, they may inquire of the power company as extra reason for a warrant- this was odne in LI NY quite some time ago, negihbors suspected, called police, police checked power bill.

BUT- if you think ANY power co. would snitch you off rather than collect all that $$$??? not in a million years.

BlackCat
June 21, 2005, 04:45 AM
Warrants based on infrared heat signatures were declared unconstitutional.

That doesn't convince me it isn't still being done though. :barf:

publius
June 21, 2005, 05:55 AM
Unless there are a lot of other indicators that there is a grow operation, the fact that someone has a high power bill might just mean they are too lazy to turn off their lights.

But, I'll just let the dope growers keep trying to guess what those other indicators are.

One might be, if your local government makes you an officer and asks you to grow it (http://www.reason.com/sullum/020703.shtml). Darn uppity locals.

Minnesota Shooter
June 21, 2005, 01:37 PM
outdated , wrong information


The person that I got the info from was a large grower about 15 years ago, a friend of mine's mom. I suppose she probably didnt keep up with the times after she retired.

Schuey2002
June 22, 2005, 05:27 AM
>>"Most of the Really quality buds come from the west coast, where they are grown in hydroponic mini farms."<<

The next door neighbor (at my former pad) was growing it in his living room..

.. for ALL to see!!

I mean, there it was.. one giant plant growing smack dab in the middle of his front window!! It had to be 7ft. tall, or more. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't put ornaments on it during the holidays. :scrutiny:

publius
June 22, 2005, 07:49 AM
Did you report that to the authorities, Schuey? Because if you did not, certain drug warriors think YOU are a criminal (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=139454&highlight=Stalinbrenner).

Oddly enough, they think your crime is worse if there is a gun anywhere nearby.

Oh, and they believe your crime affects interstate commerce (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=141812).

Schuey2002
June 22, 2005, 03:20 PM
No. What's the point? Every other person on that end of the county was growing the stuff. Maybe I should have turned them in, too?

Those Senators in that link can kiss my :cuss: !!! I ain't seen nuthin'! I don't know nuthin'!

Some time back a guy was busted for growing it here in town. No, not on the outer edges of town as one might think. It was in DOWNTOWN Coos Bay! He had an older warehouse down by the railroad tracks (which was just about 2 blocks from my old job) packed full of plants.. He had been growing the stuff for quite awhile before the police caught "wind" of the operation. :rolleyes:

neoncowboy
June 22, 2005, 03:35 PM
I am not a moderator. Knock yourselves out, but I can express an opinion that THR has turned in questionable direction that I find increasingly alienating to an older phart.

I hear you RealGun, and somewhat understand...but I think you might want to take a closer look. A lot of the issues we discuss here that stem from drug/marijuana topics aren't really about drugs/marijuana, but are about freedom (this thread's starting post excepted).

I too used marijuana when I was a kid, outgrew it, have nothing to do with it whatsoever, believe it's a destructive influence in the lives of Americans who use it, don't support it's being an acceptable societal 'norm'...etc. However...the government (especially the Federal government) banning it looks to me like a blatant violation of our nation's founding principles and the literal words of the constitution. Notice that the only grounds the Supreme Court has to support a federal criminalization of pot rests on the dubious precedent of 'the commerce clause'.

That kind of assault on civil liberties is most relevant to gun folks or anyone else who values freedom.

Using may be a private decision but it is still a vice, hardly essential, and it is against the law. Change the law perhaps...ignore the law...not cool.

I know there are a lot of folks here who selectively obey certain overly restrictive, unconstitutional gun laws. Is it breaking the law to carry in church for instance? Yup. Do people do it anyway (in those states where it's illegal)? Yup. Do I think that's wrong? Not one single bit.

The farther our nation's lawmakers and (more alarmingly) courts stray from what is right in their creation or interpretation of the law, the more mainstream, morally upright americans are going to have to step out of line with the law just to stay on the high road.

thorn726
June 22, 2005, 04:04 PM
>>>>"Most of the Really quality buds come from the west coast, where they are grown in hydroponic mini farms."<<

The next door neighbor (at my former pad) was growing it in his living room..

.. for ALL to see!! <

that's nothing, there is a FIeld on the deck of a friends house in the hills- totally visible, nobody cares. it's legal here.

someday everyone will realize how much worse alcohol is, and give up on this draconian outlawing of weed.

LiquidTension
June 22, 2005, 05:16 PM
For those of you that wish for this thread to be more about guns:

Pot is an illegal drug, and therefore the price is much higher than if it were legal. To protect investment in something that's already illegal, growers often safeguard their product with weapons. Why not, they're already looking at a looong sentence if they get busted for a large quantity. Average users enjoy smoking but don't want to incur the risk of growing - it's easy to flush your stash when popo comes to the door, not so easy to flush your several 7ft plants. Hence, they rely on the people mentioned above.

Decriminalization of the drug allows people to not rely on large criminal organizations to get a buzz. You know, the guys with guns. Instead, they have a few plants (planted several weeks apart so you always have fresh buds, of course) that supply them with what they want. Oh, and since the drug would be legal, the profit margin would be much lower - therefore breaking the back of the cartels that protect their supply (with guns).

For those of you that think potheads are too lazy to grow pot....you've obviously never watched these people construct bongs or other smoking devices. There's some genius in a few of the inventions I've seen. How 'bout a knife sharpener and a piece of a ballpoint pen. Straight up MacGyver skillz.

Most of the stuff that's imported is low-grade. Most of the potent stuff is grown domestically, and often pretty close to where it's consumed. The low-grade (shwag) is the brick weed - the stuff with seeds and stems the size of tree branches. The good stuff (dank, KB, etc.) is usually still in bud form and isn't compressed. Since it's not compressed it's more difficult to transport large quantities so it doesn't travel as far. Yeah there are exceptions but this is generally the case.

Does pot make you stupid? Sure it does. Kinda odd that the .gov likes us to be ignorant but doesn't want us to smoke pot eh?

thorn726
June 22, 2005, 08:11 PM
worse than the guns for protection- especially in Cali where most of the growers are ultra blissed out hippy wackos- criminals discover a grower, then get the bright idea to find some guns and hold up the growers.

so then some felon has extra reason to get and use a gun, especially since the person he robs is very unlikely to report him.
(although the # of these cases where dealers call the cops on themselves over just that is a bit disturbing!)

CAS700850
June 23, 2005, 10:06 AM
It's funny, with all of the talk we have about SCOTUS and the Federal Courts expanding the commerce clause at will, there was a recent criminal case in Columbus, Ohio, where an individual was prosecuted in Federal Court for what amounts to illegal possession of ammunition, having previously been convicted of a Federal Felony offense.

The reason I found this amusing was that he was found in possession of a loaded handgun, and he was only charged with possession of the ammunition. So, I called a buddy that works as a U.S. Marshall to ask why. The reason was that the handgun was a Hi Point, made in Ohio, and was not involved in interstate commerce when the guy obtained it. the ammunition, however, was made out of state, and could be prosecuted.

And people wonder why lawyers take such abuse... :D

TheDutchman
June 23, 2005, 11:58 AM
Cheech and Chong grow it in there back yards, that where is comes from.

mete
June 23, 2005, 12:48 PM
They just found 23,000 marajuana plants, $117 million worth, in Vacaville CA.

BeLikeTrey
June 23, 2005, 03:34 PM
but the growing outdoors conversation and infared etc brought to mind the cheech and chong movie with the tarp painted like a pool and then the rip in the tarp and Cheech putting his torso through and pretending to swim LOL :neener:

publius
June 23, 2005, 06:36 PM
there was a recent criminal case in Columbus, Ohio, where an individual was prosecuted in Federal Court for what amounts to illegal possession of ammunition, having previously been convicted of a Federal Felony offense.

...

he was found in possession of a loaded handgun, and he was only charged with possession of the ammunition. So, I called a buddy that works as a U.S. Marshall to ask why. The reason was that the handgun was a Hi Point, made in Ohio, and was not involved in interstate commerce when the guy obtained it. the ammunition, however, was made out of state, and could be prosecuted.

Could not have been all that recent. I would think that in light of the recent Raich (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=141812) & Stewart (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=142059) decisions, a Hi Point sold in Ohio would definitely be covered under the commerce clause, despite not yet having travelled in assembled form in interstate commerce. The Hi-Point was much closer to the stream of commerce than Raich's cannabis plants (grown for personal consumption) or Stewart's machine guns (designed and built for himself, no evidence that he sold any).

Yep, those federal powers are "few and defined (http://thomas.loc.gov/home/histdox/fed_45.html)" all right.*
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* Definition: pretty much anything. ;)

publius
June 23, 2005, 06:41 PM
They just found 23,000 marajuana plants, $117 million worth, in Vacaville CA.

Wow. That's over 5 grand per plant.

Hmmm...I've got over 100 lychee trees, probably 200 orchids. If I could just get those things prohibited, they could be worth $1.5 million! ;)

You know, they really should be prohibited. I mean, there's no such thing as a casual orchid owner. The darn things are seriously habit forming, if not downright addictive. You buy one, or maybe someone gives it to you, and before you know it, you're detouring out to the garden section at Home Depot and coming out with a new one.

And don't get me started on the lychees. Seriously addictive. You try one. It's different. You kind of like it. You try another. Hmmm. Goood. One more and you'll wind up like me: sitting down with a bunch in each hand, munching away until your hands and face are covered in goo and the lawn around you looks like a weird, localized red and white snowstorm has just struck around you. You're busy with manure and wood chips, learning to do airlayers instead of spending time with loved ones or doing something useful. What a waste!

And what do you think is going to happen in a couple of months, when there are no more lychees for the year on most trees. You think fruit junkies won't be doing some trespassing to get a fix? We're all armed out here, and tempers may flare. I say if we're going to wind up paying the medical bills, we have a right, nay a duty, to prohibit these dangerous fruits and flowers. NOW! :D (I really need a new boat, so the sooner we get on this, the better!)

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