[Gung-Ho]

I have been wanting to make these up since the first time I read Unintended Consequences..... .44 magnum Bullets made from nylon bar stock. In this case "Nylatron" to be exact. My nephew and I had a bunch of these made on a a CNC machine. They look just like regular bullets...but they are black and feather light. My first batch consisted of a 30 grain nylon bullet sitting on top of 10 grains of Unique. They made short work of a couple of milk jugs full of water. My next batch consists of the same bullet sitting on top of a full case (about 10 grains) of Bullseye. I'm hoping for even more interesting results. BTW, I think I will call these babies "Bowman Boppers." :D I need to chrony these suckers, but I believe they will just be off the scale. Any comments? Has anyone else done this?

[Jim Watson]

Yes.
There was a line of plastic ultra high velocity bullets the first time airliner hijackings got frequent enough to provide "sky marshals" years before 9/11. There was one variety loaded so hot that they were to be provided as sealed preloaded revolver cylinders.
Let us know if they will group. Well enough to get chronograph readings at, say, 7 yards, the textbook gunfight range.

[Gung-Ho]

Hey, someone on another forum just asked me if I was sure making plastic bullets was legal. The thought never even crossed my mind. Considering making them out of lead is OK, plastic not? Comments.

[Car Knocker]

A person can legally cast or swage lead bullets, swage bullets out of combinations of metals, machine bullets out of solid copper or brass. Why in the world would making a bullet out of plastic be somehow illegal? By the way, Speer makes plastic bullets for primer-driven practice rounds.

[Gung-Ho]

I know exactly what you mean. And like I said, the thought never even crossed my mind until someone else broght it up. And in this day and age, you just never know. But like someone else just told me...in order to be illegal, the core would have to be made out of certain materials, and plastic is not one of them.

[RyanM]

Hm. If you get roughly the same energy as 9.5 grains of Bullseye behind a 225 grain bullet (1270 fps / 805.7 ft-lbs), those things will be going at about 3475 fps! :what:

[The Bushmaster]

Use to catch the neighbor's full size Poodle crapping in my yard. Brought it to a screechin' end with a primer propelled wax slug from a .357 mag Colt SAA. :scrutiny: Neighbor is still wondering where his dog got that 4 inch bruise and all that melted wax on his rump. :D Poodle doesn't crap in MY back yard anymore. :evil:

[caz223]

Loaded wax bullets for years, now that's some cheap practice.
Those little wax mushrooms and splatter really make a mess out of the yard, though.
Like cleaning up after a potato gun fest!
100 rounds for less than $2.00 if you aren't afraid of a little work. (Drilling out flash holes, etc.)

[The Bushmaster]

Never bothered to drill out flash holes. Just loaded cases with magnum primers. Warmed up a rectangle of canning parifin, pushed the cases into the parifin and melted the mouth just a little to seal them with a match....Waalaa~!!!One indoor target or poodle discourager round. :D

[Gung-Ho]

OK, here is the range report. I went to the range after hours (I'm a Range Officer and have a key) to try these babies out. Remember this is a 30 grain Nylatron bullet, sitting on top of 11 grains of Bullseye. I was 97.3 percent sure these things were safe, but I still did the following....I put my safety glasses on (they are not required at our range) then sat under the shooting bench, held the pistol on the bench and let fly at the 25 meter backstop. :D The dang thing as they say "spoke with authority." I then checked to make sure all my fingers were still there, and then opened the cylinder. The brass just fell out, which was a very good sign of little or no pressure....but since there was also no soot on the back part of the case, I felt that it at least sealed. The brass showed NO signs at all of over pressure. None. As for the Nylatron bullets?.....well they were shot at dry newsprint from 15 feet. The rounds grouped well about 4 inches low. They also cleanly and without keyholes, went thru the first inch or so with a clean punch. Then they started to fragment. All in all, pieces made it thru about 5 to 6 inches of print. The bases of the rounds seemed to hold up just fine, with just a little chipping around the rifling groves...and no melting could be seen. All in all this was pretty fun and interesting...but boys and girls, don't try this at home. ;) The next phase will be to try and get some expired roasts from the grocer. I would like to try balistic gelatin but I hear its a real pain to cook up and form.

[The Bushmaster]

Under the shooting table...??? :scrutiny: O K...We need velosity through a chronograph too.

[Gung-Ho]

Yeah I know. Funny thing is I have reloaded for a long long time, and everytime I go to the range...even with loads that were carefully made "by the book", my first thought as I cap the first one off is "Gee, I hope this don't blow up." As for these...it was the same feeling just a little worse. The chrony speeds will be coming soon. I bought a chronograph from Midway last night when I got back.

[armoredman]

...everytime I go to the range...even with loads that were carefully made "by the book", my first thought as I cap the first one off is "Gee, I hope this don't blow up." ...
I KNOW how you feel! ;)

[Gung-Ho]

I'm glad I'm not the only one. I remember once when I was a kid....my dad was Maryland State trapshooting champ at one time, and I was a "Trap-Brat." I got hauled to every trap club in a tri-state area. One time there was a poor old fellow that had somehow mangaged to heavy load a 12 GA shell....it took off half his face right in front of me. :uhoh: I can still remember pieces of the shotgun flying in the air. So yes, I have a REAL respect for this stuff.

[The Bushmaster]

No problem here. As I have the same feeling when I load to max. It just struck me funny. You might get a photo of that shooting position. It might be a new trend...L O L :D

[Gung-Ho]

Maybe we could call it the Dummas possition. :D

[The Bushmaster]

Done!! "Dummas Position" it is........L O L :)

[Gung-Ho]

Of course we will pronounce it Do-maz. ;)

[The Bushmaster]

O K...You are the instructor here so start training with a photo of that style of shooting. :D

[Gung-Ho]

OK, here you go boys and girls. Here are the first photos of the Bowman Boppers......

Bowman Bopper Pic 1 (http://members.cox.net/outphaze2/Bowman%20Bopper-pic1.jpg)

Bowman Bopper Pic 2 (http://members.cox.net/outphaze2/Bowman%20Bopper-pic2.jpg)

[Erich]

Thanks for this great thread! :)

[Third_Rail]

Can't wait for the chrony results. Could be really interesting.

[Gung-Ho]

Again, on another forum.........

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In some states, bullets must be at least 80% lead
or copper
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My response....

"Please show me the law in ANY state that says this. I have looked high and low for any info on this, and the only thing that I could find stated that in order to be a "no-no" the core had to be made of certain materials...and plastic was NOT one of them. "

Maybe I should have added........"So, you want to know if it's legal? What gives you the idea that a government agency has granted authority to make it illegal?"

[Gung-Ho]

Thanks for this great thread!

Your quite welcome! BTW, what is the average gunfight distance? This is were I want to chrony them from.

[Erich]

Almost every one of the 100+ handgun killings I've worked on was under 15 feet. Very rarely one is beyond that.

[Gung-Ho]

Erich....have you ever heard of plastic bullets being illegal?

[happy old sailor]

dont you just wonder who came up with that 7 yard average? it would seem, to my tiny mind, that a bunch of gunfights would be beyond 21 feet. it has been repeated so often that it is accepted as gospel in some corners. if it were 7 yards for sure, and many beyond this distance, i would be carrying a 4 inch gun instead of a snubby. i expect problems to occur in feet, not yards.

yep, this is off the plastic bullet thread, but. the subject was brought up and i had to rant a little on the 7 yard misnomer. i look forward to the chrony report. gotta blister the air. and, please include bbl length and firearm info. will fill in the gaps in my curiosity. this is very interesting. BTW, the pics showed fine machine work.

[Erich]

have you ever heard of plastic bullets being illegal?

Let me check . . .

Not in NM, where I practice.
I note that there is a federal law on "restricted ammunition":

18 USC § 929 (2005) Use of restricted ammunition

(a) (1) Whoever, during and in relation to the commission of a crime of violence or drug trafficking crime (including a crime of violence or drug trafficking crime which provides for an enhanced punishment if committed by the use of a deadly or dangerous weapon or device) for which he may be prosecuted in a court of the United States, uses or carries a firearm and is in possession of armor piercing ammunition capable of being fired in that firearm, shall, in addition to the punishment provided for the commission of such crime of violence or drug trafficking crime be sentenced to a term of imprisonment for not less than five years.
(2) For purposes of this subsection, the term "drug trafficking crime" means any felony punishable under the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 801 et seq.), the Controlled Substances Import and Export Act (21 U.S.C. 951 et seq.), or the Maritime Drug Law Enforcement Act (46 U.S.C. App. 1901 et seq.).

(b) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the court shall not suspend the sentence of any person convicted of a violation of this section, nor place the person on probation, nor shall the terms of imprisonment run concurrently with any other terms of imprisonment, including that imposed for the crime in which the armor piercing ammunition was used or possessed.

18 USC § 921(a)(17) (2005) defines "armor-piercing" ammunition as:
(A) The term "ammunition" means ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm.
(B) The term "armor piercing ammunition" means--
(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or
(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.
(C) The term "armor piercing ammunition" does not include shotgun shot required by Federal or State environmental or game regulations for hunting purposes, a frangible projectile designed for target shooting, a projectile which the Attorney General finds is primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes, or any other projectile or projectile core which the Attorney General finds is intended to be used for industrial purposes, including a charge used in an oil and gas well perforating device.


Please bear in mind that the fact that I haven't in my perfunctory research found a ban on plastic bullets doesn't mean there's not some law out there somewhere that bans plastic bullets . . .

[Gung-Ho]

Please bear in mind that the fact that I haven't in my perfunctory research found a ban on plastic bullets doesn't mean there's not some law out there somewhere that bans plastic bullets . . .

Sad ain't it. :mad: Well considering there is a law on just about everything these days (including no doubt on how to properly wipe my rear) I guess I will not be selling or trading these. I noted with interest that according to the way the law is written... "a frangible projectile designed for target shooting" even if these were frangible (and they are close to being that at close range) it would seem if I mentioned they would might be good for self defense, I would be breaking the law. :banghead:

[Erich]

Read that paragraph again, partner. :)

[Third_Rail]

If they aren't specifically banned, they're legal. It's quite confusingly worded, which is why you probably missed that.

[Gung-Ho]

OK....here are the chrony results. Fired from about 15 feet. 13 grains of Bullseye. (Still no pressure signs...next bunch will have 14 to 15 grains.) From a Blackhawk revolver with a six inch barrel I got an average of 2500 FPS. Out of a Winchester Trapper.....hold on to your hats boys and girls.....I got an average of 3000 FPS, with one hitting 3075 FPS. :eek: Didn't have any wet newsprint but a full gallon jug of water went up like a stick of dynamite, and thru water all over me. Blew the jug clean up....but there was no exit hole. BTW, the muzzle blast was something to write home about. :D

[BluesBear]

:what:

What the muzzle flash like? Are you throwing out a lot of unburned powder?

Sooner or later you'll reach the point where you can't get enough powder to burn to achieve any more velocity.

Am I correct in guessing that recoil is negligible?

[Gung-Ho]

You ask good questions. I'm not sure if I have reached the point of diminishing returns yet. I'm pretty sure I can still crank out a few more FPS with the rifle, but when it comes to the Blackhawk I'm not so sure. When it comes to the Blackhawk, there is a pretty good bark, and I would say that the recoil is just about like a .38. The muzzle blast with the Blackhawk was pretty good (can't wait to try them at night) so I just might be at or close to the max FPS when it comes to a six inch barrel.

[Nobody]

Now, some of those nylatron rods made up in .357 or .358 to reload for my 1894C could be very interesting. :cool:

[Third_Rail]

Gung-Ho, don't ever offer these for sale. We DON'T need them banned.


Mighty nice results, though. I think I may have to turn some of these for .45 Colt.


Say - would these count as frangible? :D



Indoor range time! :evil:

[Gung-Ho]

I think in order to get them banned I would need to use them in a movie or campy series like Tremors. If memory serves me correct, the .50 really hit the public eye when "Burt" used one against the Grabboids. :banghead:

[griz]

2500 FPS! Sounds interesting. If I can scrounge some nylon I might try some in wetpack. I have no idea how well they would work, but it's worth trying.

[Erich]

Wow. :what:

[vesmcd]

O.K., you have piqued my curiosity. I have some Speer .45 cal plastic flat point bullets, a .45 1911 and an 1888 Commision Mauser rifle rebarreled to .45ACP(just to see if I could). This could get interesting.

[Gung-Ho]

Speer .45 cal plastic flat point bullets,

Just keep in mind that side by side the Speer stuff is almost a soft rubber compared to the Nylatron. They can't lead....but they might plastic. :D

[BluesBear]

Do NOT attempt to fire the Speer Target-45/44/38 bullets with any powder charge.
They will MELT and leave some very NASTY gunk in your barrel.
Imagine stringy pizza cheeze that dries with the consistancy of violin rosin. :cuss:
And since they are melting as they leave the bore their accuracy is atrocious.

I would imagine that attempting to fire standard ammunition afterwards would be catastrophic. Dangerous even.


Now if you do decide to load them over a moderate charge of fast buring powder you can probably do what my friend Nick did.

Since I was his friend, I only charged him $100 (in 1981) to dig all of that gunk out of the insides of his 1969 vintage .44 Magnum Winchester 1894. :D

At least he didn't try it with the plastic cases.

[Gung-Ho]

Very good point. As for the Bowman Boppers. They do not "plastic" at ALL. As a side benifit, they even cleaned what little lead was there, out of my bore. :D Either that or my eyes are getting worse. It seemed that no matter how hard I tried, the Blackhawk would have a little lead in the first inch or so or the bore, just past the forcing cone. I looked and looked the other night, and even had a friend look, and we could see no lead.

[Nobody]

So, are you just taking nylatron MDS to a local die shop and having it turned down to lead bullet diameters or jacketed bullet diameters?

[Gung-Ho]

They are turned to .430 for .44 magnum from stock Nylatron MDS.

[vesmcd]

Speer plastic bullets are out, they are hollow with an open base. Any decent powder charge would probably blow the head off (judging from an experience I had trying to shoot .22 airgun pellets out of a Ruger MKII using blanks). The base of the Speer is turned down like it would accept a gas check, but I don't have the equipment to size/crimp the gas check.Also, a powder charge would probably rupture the gas check. I do have a lathe, and there is a plastics supply house here in Dallas that sells Nylatron rod. So, I'll go that route and see what kind of velocity we can get out of a .45ACP case and an 18" barrel.

[Car Knocker]

vesmcd,

The base of the Speer bullets have a smaller diameter so that they can fit into the plastic case that Speers sells. It may be that they are of such a size that a gas check may fit but that would just be a matter of coincidence. Somewhere around here I've got a box of the Speer plastic .38's that are probably 35-40 years old and I seem to recall that the bullets are fairly soft and agree that they probably wouldn't stand up very well to a powder charge.