Then move the school!


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Warren
June 20, 2005, 02:23 AM
Arrrrgghhhhhhhhhhh! (http://www.news14charlotte.com/content/top_stories/default.asp?ArID=95796)

Blissninny idiots being idiots.



Neighbors take shots at gun range
6/18/2005 7:07 PM
By: Kate Barker, News 14 Carolina



WATCH THE VIDEO


Marvin Gun Club

Neighbors say the shooting range is too close to a new elementary school and they want it shut down.





MARVIN, N.C. – A shooting range on the same street as an elementary school has many parents outraged.

The Charlotte Rifle and Pistol Club built a range in Union County nearly a half century ago, but now there are some new people in town who want the range closed down. With that in mind, the gun club held an open house Saturday.

“The purpose of the open house is to let people who have moved into the area recently who drive by and see the sign out there and say ‘What on Earth is going on back there?’” said James Peterson.


Gun owner Linda Geer is at the Charlotte Rifle and Pistol Club learning how to fire a shot.
What is going on back there? For one, gun owners like Linda Geer are learning how to fire a shot.

“My husband passed away last year, and for security reasons I knew it would be best for me to learn how to shoot,” she said.

A new elementary school is being built just down the road from the shooting range, and down the road a little more are dozens of new subdivisions. Some of the new neighbors are not happy about the location of the range.

“It will make me nervous when they are playing on the playground,” said parent Dorian Nicolosi. “It does not sit well with me.”

Nicolosi and two daughters live just down the road. Both girls will attend the new elementary school when it opens in the fall.


Some neighbors, like Dorian Nicolosi, are not happy about the range's proximity to a new elementary school.
”I don't think it should be anywhere near a school,” she said. “It shouldn’t be within five miles of school.”

Back at the range, there are mothers who say parents have no reason to worry.

“We went through a class even before they let us out on the range,” Geer said. “They are absolutely prepared to monitor everyone with a gun on this premises.”

Members of the gun club say they want neighbors to know everyone here is aiming for the same goal – to keep people safe

The Charlotte Rifle and Pistol Club first formed in 1913. Today it has more than 600 members.

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Kamicosmos
June 20, 2005, 02:27 AM
Like the idiots that complain about the noise from passing airplanes, interstates, or trains.

Uh...it was there first. Kinda hard to miss it.


Get. A. Life. And/or a Brain.

wasrjoe
June 20, 2005, 02:35 AM
I hate those type of idiots.

Nathaniel Firethorn
June 20, 2005, 06:11 AM
I gotta say it. The range's leadership was incompetent. They saw the range being engulfed in sprawl and did nothing.

If it's happening to your range, you have three choices:

1. Get used to unrelenting attacks from the suburbatronic units.
2. Buy up all the land around the range as it becomes available.
3. Move the range to a place that won't get sprawled. (My range is located between the switching yard and the concrete recycling plant. :D )

- pd

mete
June 20, 2005, 08:21 AM
Unfortunately the 'grandfather clause' usually doesn't exist any more . They will have to fight in court but it may be hopeless.

HankB
June 20, 2005, 08:35 AM
This really turns my stomach - not because it's a RANGE, but because johnny-come-latelys think think they have a right to impose THEIR ideas on others.

I've seen this time and again . . .

* People move in next to a range, and complain about gunshot noise.

* People move in next to an airport, and complain about airplane noise.

* People move in next to railroad tracks, and complain about train noise and diesel fumes.

* People move in next to a turkey farm, and complain about the smell.

* People build a home on a flood plain, and complain when they're flooded.

There used to be a doctrine called "flying to a nuisance" which stopped this sort of nonsense, but with .gov's unrelenting attack on property rights, this seems to be a thing of the past.

Lone_Gunman
June 20, 2005, 08:43 AM
If this is in the Charlotte NC area, my guess is that the people doing the complaining are not native North Carolinians, but a but bunch of transplanted yankees.

Southern cities like Charlotte and Atlanta are growing rapidly right now, mainly from a surge of immigrants from northern urban centers. As a result there are some neighborhoods in these cities that are as liberal as any place up north.

I would support building a wall on our southern border to keep out illegal aliens, but at times I think we need to build one along the northern border of North Carolina too.

DRZinn
June 20, 2005, 01:54 PM
They're not even complaining about the noise! Read carefully: It will make me nervous when they are playing on the playground It makes them nervous! They don't even mention the noise.

Waitone
June 20, 2005, 02:12 PM
Former member here.

At one time the range was waaay out in the middle of nowhere. Development has been moving that direction for 5 or more years. I knew it would eventually become an issue. The sudden growth of the area is the issue. 3 years and it goes from woods to development after development. High end developments. . . .the kind that lawyers buy into. The club is run by a bunch of good ol' boys and they've done a good job of creating a fine shooting establishment. I don't think the leadership could have adopted since the development occured so fast.

When I saw what was happening I hoped the leadership was in contact with legal types. At a minimum I would have thought it advisable to begin posting advertising signs all over the place so that prospective owners would know up front of the range's existence. It also occurs to me the state (NC or SC since the range sits right on the border) bears some responsibility since it knew up front of the range's placement.

The report's focus is on the pistol range. It also has a three hundred yard rifle range. Pistol and rifle are on the private side. Public side has trap, skeet and clays. The range is noisey and has been for a while. Then there is the issue of competition shoots and so forth. Yea, I can see Buffy and Bocephus being upset at all the gunfire. So what? But then again, lawyers can tear up an anvil.

I move to another state so I had to abandon my membership. I knew trouble was brewing but it has evidently come far too fast for club leadership to react in a meaninful manner.

slowworm
June 20, 2005, 03:06 PM
My hom erange has a similar problem. We've been there something like 45 years and about 3 years ago developers built expensive homes with a couple of hundred yards of the firing line.

Fortunatly since New Hampshire has a law to protect existing ranges against noise and nuisance complaints they are SOL.

That didn't stop one guy calling the police and claiming to have had rifle rounds land in his yard. The police dutifully collected them and handed them to the club board for display at the next meeting. They were all unfired complete cartridges. We must have been using a mightly powerful slingshot to get them that far :rolleyes:

Encroachment is a real problem and I think that over the long term it will result in the death of firearms ownership as places to use them get crowded out. Not in my lifetime but I strongly suspect that my children may be the last generation to be allowed to inherit the contents of the gunsafe.

SMMAssociates
June 20, 2005, 03:07 PM
A local club, which I'm a recent member of, is having problems with a neighbor who's dad was once president of our club....

The Charlotte folks have a chance with their issues, although it'll cost 'em. We can't shoot after 2300 in our indoor range anymore. One of the reasons I joined is that if I get the itch to kill some paper at 0430, I have a key....

Noise issue.... In the summer, the guy can hear us from across the street. There's more to it, but I don't have the details.

The good news is that we own most of the land around the place that would be "in the line of fire", including a nice lake and outdoor trap and pistol/rifle ranges, but condos are approaching....

My own view is that if you move in next door to the slaughterhouse, you've got no reason to do anything but invest in nose plugs. If somebody comes along and builds a slaughterhouse next door, that's a different story.

I've had the questionable fortune to attend zoning board meetings around here. The neighbors and I lost.... The guy who was being questioned was within his legal, but not moral, rights, and those of us who opposed him hadn't been informed that what he wanted to do was acceptable. At the end of the day I came up with two conclusions: The builder was not a nice person, and that the board had no idea what they were doing. I don't think they'd been bought, but I'm sure they had no idea....

IANAL, but when new law (which includes zoning board stuff) restricts your access to, or use of property that preceded it, then it's a "taking" - you are due compensation if you can't just get 'em to go away and leave things as they were.

The Freeholder
June 20, 2005, 04:07 PM
I see the day approaching when my range (also in NC) will be in this position. Unfortunately, no one seems too interested in doing anything to protect its long-term viability. The ones who actually own the land won't buy anything that comes open around them, and won't let any other members put up money to become land owners "because it'll dilute our equity".

Funny, it seems on the way to join a shooting range I made a wrong turn and joined a real estate investment group instead. :cuss:

I guess I'll just stay as long as I can, and hopefully when Bad Things happen I'll be ready to move to somewhere more remote.

Standing Wolf
June 20, 2005, 04:09 PM
“It will make me nervous when they are playing on the playground,” said parent Dorian Nicolosi. “It does not sit well with me.”

Leftist extremists believe their irrational fears trumpt the nation's civil rights.

Malone LaVeigh
June 20, 2005, 04:19 PM
Leftist extremists believe their irrational fears trumpt the nation's civil rights. Nice circular reasoning.

bosshoff
June 20, 2005, 04:33 PM
My old range (now home to a subdivision) had a similar problem. It was in a depressed lowland almost gravel pit-like area, and people miles away said bullets were hitting their houses. If there were actually any bullets hitiing the houses, they were probably drug related or kid related bullets fired from accross the street.) Their response was to install benches with super heavy duty ceilings, sloped down to about the top of the target rail (down field) Does this make sense? Basically if you tried to let one fly over the horizon, you would hit the ceiling, and it would richochet into the dirt. After this, no one could claim it was an actual possibility that buullets were leaving the range, striking homes. It costs them a lot of money in materials, and time, but it kept the range open, until progress closed it. They were sititing on a couple of hunderd acres in one of the fastest growing counties in the country. I am sure they got close to $20,000.00 an acre when they sold to a developer.

Cesiumsponge
June 20, 2005, 04:40 PM
A similar situation happened when a new child daycare center opened up within walking distance to an adult toys store. Once the parents and owners figured out there was an adult store nearby, it started to hit the fan. The owner of the daycare claimed pedophiles hang out at adult toy stores :rolleyes:

Given the choice between a daycare for children and an adult store, I don't think a pedophile would chose the later. I never got an update on how that resolved (if at all). It seems like once you open a new store and weren't smart enough to survey the surrounding area for detrimental landmarks, you're somehow entitled to the cock of the walk, king of the hill mentality. The sad part is they end up getting a lot of support because it's "for the children". :banghead:

isa268
June 20, 2005, 04:46 PM
There was a great gun shop that specialized in black powder (Rebel Arms)here in Houston, that shut down cause they built a school behind its range.

nico
June 20, 2005, 04:47 PM
You guys think you got it bad, my "local" (an hour away) rifle range is at the county dump and the neighbors still want to close it down. :scrutiny:

Cesiumsponge
June 20, 2005, 04:54 PM
I don't see how its possible people don't survey the surrounding landscape before they build something as important as a school, then have the right to kick the gun range off even though they were there first.

Maybe someone should build a new gun range right behind a school and try kicking out the school!

svtruth
June 20, 2005, 05:08 PM
Although NC, because of RTP, has the highest PhD/population in the country, it also has the lowest high school reading scores.
Perhaps the parents should refocus their concerns, for the children.

m0ntels
June 20, 2005, 05:16 PM
Sounds about like when the yuppies decided to develop all around me...people were suing the farmers they put their cookie cutter houses next to when they'd go and spread manure and such. Man, who woulda thought a farm might not smell like perfume?!

Randy

goalie
June 20, 2005, 07:07 PM
Thank god Minnesota got the Range Protection Act passed this year. I am sick of people moving next to the Minneapolis Airport or an existing range and complaining about the noise.

:banghead:

stangboy555
June 20, 2005, 07:42 PM
It's all about progress.. hopefuly the range can stay, it's been there almost 50 years.. you'd think they'd call it a landmark or something..

On a side note, has anyone ever flown out of Orange County Airport in Santa Ana, CA? They have bunch of whiners out there who live by the airport so as your plane is taking off and as your ascending you can hear the roar of the engines... then you hear the engines power down.. apparently there's a law out there that says pilots must cut engine power to lessen the noise when flying over certain residential areas around the airport.

jefnvk
June 20, 2005, 07:54 PM
Same thing happened here. Some developer decided to put a subdivision down rage. When the people moved in, and found that there was a 600 yard range ending in their backyard, they were not happy. The gun club 'caved in' and tilted the range a little bit. Everything seemed to have settled down, from what I have heard.

People don't realize that when something has bee there for over a half century, you just can't move in and change it. Actually, they realize that they can, and that is why it happens.

I would bet that they knew full well that there was a range there, and decided not to raise a fuss until the project was too far started to move it.

Crosshair
June 20, 2005, 09:43 PM
The developer probably wanted the land and built all that stuff there so he could get it. :banghead:

JohnKSa
June 20, 2005, 10:17 PM
They were all unfired complete cartridges.Did you encourage the cops to charge him with filing a false report and consult a lawyer to see if you could pursue legal action against him?

slowworm
June 21, 2005, 07:57 AM
JohnKSa

The police had better things to do with their time and we have also been involved in court over access issues to the land as our access road was cut by a developer who owns most of the surrounding land.

This was small cake in comparision to that.

This does highlight another problem that many ranges face even with range protection acts. Since these are in the realm of civil law the club can do bust over the legal fees.

If you win you may recover costs, but you have to get there first. The access road fight has nearly bankrupted the club although that is now thankfully drawing to a close. I suspect that is what was on the mind of the developer so he could buy the land when we went bust. The board of directors all reached into their pockets and put over $20000 on the table right there and then for the fight. Without that we would have been shut by now.

I suspect the next fight will be to get the 500 yard shilouette range put in.

TarpleyG
June 21, 2005, 08:12 AM
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: GRNC Alert 06-20-05: Charlotte Rifle & Pistol Club in Danger - Your Input Needed!
Date: 20 Jun 05 20:27:45 -0500
From: GRNC Alerts <alert@grnc.org>
To:


Grass Roots North Carolina, P.O. Box 10684, Raleigh, NC 27605
919-664-8565, www.grnc.org, GRNC Alert Hotline: (919) 562-4137

GRNC Alert 06-20-05:
Charlotte Rifle & Pistol Club in Danger - Your Input Needed

ANTI-GUNNERS TRYING TO SHUT DOWN RANGE
Let them know what you think on their poll.

http://www.news14charlotte.com/content/top_stories/default.asp?ArID=95796

The Charlotte Rifle and Pistol Club has been at its present location in Union County for nearly 50 YEARS, now due to the construction of a new elementary school nearby, anti-gun residents are waging a media campaign to force them to close.

Channel 14 in Charlotte is running a story with a web poll. There are signs that national anti-gun organizations may be attempting to skew this poll to their favor. Your valuable input is needed.

IMMEDIATE ACTION REQUIRED

- Read the story at: http://www.news14charlotte.com/content/top_stories/default.asp?ArID=95796
- Vote in the web poll which can be found a quarter of the way down in the right column.
- Tell your friends about this important issue. DON'T LET A GOOD SHOOTING CLUB BE RAILROADED. Pro-gunners have proven time and again that when we band together, we will win.

-------------------------
Find your representative here:
http://www.grnc.org/contact_reps.htm

c_yeager
June 21, 2005, 08:24 AM
Let me tell ya, ive lived next to an indoor range, as well as a school. The only place noisier that a fireing range is a school, and the range doesnt seem to attract nearly as many miscreants.

cortez kid
June 21, 2005, 08:29 AM
My daughter lives in N. Augusta, SC. There are gun range noise signs all over. Never here any noise. No complaints. Proud to be a "yankee" down there. I found out the difference between a yankee and a damn yankee. A yankee is a northerner down there. A damn yankee is one that moves there!
I like having acerage of my own, although more and more new yorkas anjoisey people are moving in. Anyone walks on my "range" is going to get shot and antlers stapled to their heads. Not worried though, first day of deer season is an actual school holiday. It sounds like 'Nam the satuday before the season opens. It's actually scary!
kid

Don Gwinn
June 21, 2005, 09:24 AM
I see this getting worse at my range, too. It's been there since 1946, but a few years ago, before I joined, some local real estate bigwig built a house on a hill downrange.

Now, this is a great club, and the first thing the officers did when they noticed construction up there (you can just see the roof over the berm from the highest point of the rifle line when the leaves are off the trees! :uhoh: ) was stop by and talk to the contractor, then to the owner, about the wisdom of building there. He wasn't interested in hearing about it.

Until he had the house built, when he decided he had rights and started claiming he could hear bullets going over his house and splashing in his pond. This range does not allow firing while moving or drawing from holsters, specifically because they don't want a shot going over the berm. They've also paid a fortune to raise the rifle line and extend and raise the berms, and they don't allow metal or glass targets so as not to allow ricochets.


None of it matters to this idiot. He's still claiming bullets are hitting the pond and he still claims he can hear them going over his head--except that he doesn't actually know what they sound like. He says they buzz like bees, every time. I think he read a similar description in a detective novel or something.

The thing is, we can confound this guy for now, but as development continues all around, I can see it all going away. And although we own the land, we have some kind of long-term lease with the township that essentially means we stay as long as they let us. If they decide they'd rather have the tax revenue from some developer who doesn't want us around, I don't see what we can do. Fortunately, the club is in decent financial shape with a fair surplus. It's possible we could relocate further out somewhere.

They could put it a couple of miles outside my little town and have no development to worry about. We have enough on our hands to keep the businesses we have.

dolanp
June 21, 2005, 09:27 AM
Let me tell ya, ive lived next to an indoor range, as well as a school. The only place noisier that a fireing range is a school, and the range doesnt seem to attract nearly as many miscreants.

LOL, so true.

sense
June 21, 2005, 04:18 PM
well, they are just kids, dont you think their education is important? no one want to sit in a classroom hearing gunshots all day. wouldnt more schools int he country be better then more gun ranges?

wasrjoe
June 21, 2005, 04:29 PM
well, they are just kids, dont you think their education is important? no one want to sit in a classroom hearing gunshots all day. wouldnt more schools int he country be better then more gun ranges?

Dide you actually read anything posted here? :scrutiny:

nico
June 21, 2005, 05:26 PM
well, they are just kids, dont you think their education is important? no one want to sit in a classroom hearing gunshots all day. wouldnt more schools int he country be better then more gun ranges?
I agree. There should be more schools with gun ranges so that children can be better educated about firearms. The schools should be well insulated though. If I could hear gunshots from my school all day I'd never have paid attention because I'd have been thinking about shooting. Maybe if they didn't want a gun range next to their school they shouldn't have built a school next to a gun range.

jefnvk
June 21, 2005, 06:32 PM
Dide you actually read anything posted here?

Ummm...

Judging from the Ireland thread, no.

Solo
June 21, 2005, 06:36 PM
well, they are just kids, dont you think their education is important? no one want to sit in a classroom hearing gunshots all day. wouldnt more schools int he country be better then more gun ranges?
You are completely right. We should begin handing out silencers at gun ranges to reduce noise pollution. Great idea.

Crosshair
June 21, 2005, 07:08 PM
Can't argue with that Solo

Dan from MI
June 22, 2005, 01:34 AM
Nothing irks me more than city folk who spawl out to the country and bring the city and its leftist ways out with them.

Go back to Charlotte/Ann Arbor

Nightfall
June 22, 2005, 10:27 PM
“It will make me nervous when they are playing on the playground,” said parent Dorian Nicolosi. “It does not sit well with me.””I don't think it should be anywhere near a school,” she said. “It shouldn’t be within five miles of school.”Well crap folks, how can we argue with rock solid logic like this? :rolleyes:

Henry Bowman
June 23, 2005, 10:28 AM
Here's the deal: The antis have discovered a new page to put into their standard playbook. This time it is based on logic, even if they don't understand that. The argument is that there is NO defense to projectiles leaving the range property -- and they are right. Their problem in virtually all cases is something that they have never perceived as a problem -- the facts. If you don't have any, make them up.

There is no good defense (such as we were here first) to projectiles leaving the property. It is almost always physically possible, even if it would require a shooter to violate all safety rules and fire to the side at an upward 45 degree angle. Possible, no matter how unlikely.

The play book reads: Claim to have heard things buzzing by overhead. That way you don't have to find physical evidence, such as bullets (as opposed to entire cartridges :rolleyes: ) on your property or in the side of a building where nuns teach blind orphans. The range denies it, but can't prove a negative. Instead they have to spend more money than they have to make it physically impossible that a projectile will leave the property.

My range is doing just that, as well as requiring that a RSO be on site any time anyone shoots. The rifle range has been closed indefinately while a > million dollar project is planned to retro fit it. The plinking range is now limited to paper and clay targets (no fruit, water jugs, steel, or old electronic equipment that could cause a ricochet). The pistol range has all sorts on new rules (including the new RSO) and even the trap and skeet shooters (whose shot cannot possibly leave the property) must sign in and out.

This is the new game folks. We have to find a way to deal with it.

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