Incident at Oglala: The Leonard Peltier Story


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NIGHTWATCH
June 20, 2005, 06:31 PM
http://69.6.253.242/web_pages/paternoster/iao.jpg

I just purchased this excellent documentary from Amazon.com and viewed it for the first time. I highly suggest adding it to your library.

An Online Review...

As you probably already know, this film concerns the blatantly unfair trail and conviction of Leonard Peltier, for the alleged crime of murdering two FBI agents at the Pine Ridge Reservation in 1975. The documentary begins by putting the incident in its proper perspective by showing that the Pine Ridge Reservation, at that time, had one of the highest per capita murder rates in the entire US, with the vast majority of those crimes, even today, still filed as "unsolved" (Check out Ward Churchill's "Indians are Us" and Agents of Repression for a detailed account of the killings in question). In fact, from 1973 to 1976 at least 69 Aim members and supporters were murdered and not one person was ever convicted, or even investigated, for these brutally horrific crimes. Why were these deaths not investigated you may ask. It is because the victims were primarily American Indians involved with AIM who were actively involved in the struggle to retain the lands lawfully granted to them in the Fort Laramie Treaty of 1868 against the federal gov't and the corrupt, unelected BIA administration of Dick Wilson. Many have openly claimed that Wilson and his so-called "goon squad" were responsible for these killings, but no investigation was ever conducted by State law enforcement officials or by the FBI; and yet the incident that led to the shooting that left two agents and one Indian dead, centered around an investigation concerning a pair of STOLEN COWBOY BOOTS. You can draw your own conclusions from that.


Although three men were originally charged with the murder of the agents in a separate trial preceding Peltiers illegal extradition from Canada, the first two defendants were determined to be not guilty of all charges their acts viewed as self defense. After this embarrassment the FBI decided that Peltier would be convicted at all costs and set about the task of constructing a case against him. After a trial marred by official perjury, witness intimidation and clearly manufactured evidence, Leonard Peltier alone was convicted, but then, only after the original judge was inexplicably removed from the case and replaced with one "friendly" to the FBI by a prejudiced jury of his white peers. This film shows the disturbing details surrounding how Peltier was ultimately convicted by this court presided over by an obviously prejudiced judge and jury on what amounts to a mountain of manufactured evidence, witness tampering, and lies.


As the film and the FBI's own evidence shows there is absolutely no proof that has not been exposed as fraud, that links Peltier to the murder weapon or the red van (Peltier drove a pickup truck) that the agents reportedly followed onto the reservation. The FBI goes so far as to argue that people in this part of the country call a pickup truck a van and vice versa to explain just one glaring inconsistency in the governments case. The FBI's own statements are filled with inconsistencies and outright falsehoods, which resulted in the Federal Judge Edward McManus of the first trial harshly rebuking them for their shameful, reckless and unlawful behavior. In the video the FBI spokesman's dishonesty is clearly, if not painfully, apparent. Simply watch this video and decide for yourself. You will be surprised and certainly appalled by what you see.

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Standing Wolf
June 20, 2005, 06:41 PM
Check out Ward Churchill's "Indians are Us" and Agents of Repression for a detailed account of the killings in question...

Nope. I don't waste my time reading anything by known liars and lefitst extremists.

That's not to say Peltier was or wasn't framed, but Ward Churchill is an avowed enemy of the truth.

Pilgrim
June 20, 2005, 07:48 PM
I just purchased this excellent documentary from Amazon.com and viewed it for the first time. I highly suggest adding it to your library.

Right next to your copies of "Bowling for Columbine" and "Fahrenheit 911"?

Pilgrim

Cosmoline
June 20, 2005, 08:04 PM
It raises some interesting questions. I certainly don't trust Hoover's boys. It's interesting viewing for the tactical questions it raises, apart from any political issues. The agents went up against a line of rifles with revolvers and the results were pretty easy to predict.

scubie02
June 20, 2005, 08:31 PM
you can read about it here

http://www.freepeltier.org/

leonard peltier is nothing less than a political prisoner. One key bit of evidence against Peltier

"(11) Critical ballistic information reflecting Mr. Peltier's innocence was withheld from the defense team, making a fair trial impossible. Specifically, at the trial, the FBI ballistic expert, Evan Hodge, testified that he had been unable to perform the best test, a firing pin test, on certain casings found near the agents' car, because the rifle in question had been damaged in a fire. Instead, he stated that he had conducted an extractor mark test, and found the casing and weapon to match.

Years later, documents obtained through the Freedom of Information Act showed that in October 1975 a firing pin ballistic test had indeed been performed on the rifle and that the results were clearly negative. In short, the fatal bullet did not come from Leonard Peltier's weapon. The jury never heard about any of these crucial issues."

The fact that ward churchill is a somewhat detestable fellow in no way negates the injustice done to peltier

Zundfolge
June 20, 2005, 09:26 PM
Someone's been listening to too much Rage Against The Machine. :rolleyes:


Yeah, Leonard Peltier is innocent ... so's OJ ... so's Michael ... Tupac is a saint :rolleyes:


FREE JAMES BROWN!

beerslurpy
June 20, 2005, 09:32 PM
Peltier really is innocent though. Regardless of what side you come down on re: cowboys vs indians, you have to admit that injustice is injustice.

And I think Mumia is guiltier than OJ, and I thought OJ was pretty damn guilty.

DMF
June 20, 2005, 09:37 PM
http://www.noparolepeltier.com/

The stated purpose of the NPPA is to respond to the erroneous statements and allegations made by the International Office of the Leonard Peltier Defense Committee (LPDC)*. . . .

. . . *For the concerned reader and researcher, the LPDC can be found at www.leonardpeltier.org. The FBI's review of the Peltier case can be found at http://minneapolis.fbi.gov/peltier.htm. (It is noted that the names of Darrelle (Dino) Butler and Robert Robideau are not listed as Director/Advisors, etc., of the LPDC). You know scubie, I find it very interesting the people opposing Peltier's release encourage people to get both sides of the story, yet those who support it do not. There is no such encouragement for "concerned readers" at the site you provided. Do you think there might be a reason for that?

People are entitled to their own opinions, they are not entitled to their own facts.
- Vincent Bugliosi

GT
June 20, 2005, 10:21 PM
Had to laugh at the Ward Churchill reference.

Advice: if you are trying to convince me of the truth of your argument please avoid referring to liars, plagiarists and self-aggrandizing Rambo wannabees (or in his case all three).

G

NIGHTWATCH
June 20, 2005, 10:56 PM
Right next to your copies of "Bowling for Columbine" and "Fahrenheit 911"?

Huh? :scrutiny:

Have you even seen this film? Can you give me one example in the subject film that is anti-gun? Anti-Bush? This documentary was done over ten years ago. It has nothing in it that can be related to "Bowling for Columbine" or Fahrenheit 911" or Bush.

You are not making any sense. You have not watched the film. Rent it.

boofus
June 20, 2005, 11:05 PM
Peltier is one of the Left's pet projects which leads me to believe he actually is guilty of the crimes he was convicted of. He is in good company with Abu Jamal and other cop killers which the criminal lobby calls 'political prisoners'.

May he rot in federal prison until he dies.

DMF
June 20, 2005, 11:09 PM
NW, the common theme of the three films is not about being anti-Bush, or anti-gun, it's that all three are anti-truth. Somehow I'm not surprised you failed to pick up on that.

Ezekiel
June 20, 2005, 11:14 PM
I never cared for Peltier's defense: "I didn't shoot your agents".

My defense would have been, "Damned right I shot your agents and here is why!" (Followed by a full recount of self-defense.)

As an American Indian living in Leavenworth -- the town -- until recently, I think he shot 'em, or, at least, AT them. Doesn't matter to me: fess up with an affirmative defense.

Yeah, he's a political pawn, but he did/does it to himself.

NIGHTWATCH
June 20, 2005, 11:28 PM
NW, the common theme of the three films is not about being anti-Bush, or anti-gun, it's that all three are anti-truth. Somehow I'm not surprised you failed to pick up on that.

What I have picked up on is that bigotry is bad on THR, unless it is conservative bigotry. And that TRUTH is subject to party affiliation and not common sense here.

Robert Redford narrates the entire documentary. The last thing Redford is is a left-wing liar. But then did you know this? Of course not because you did not take the time to rent the film (like many others) who commented.

boofus
June 20, 2005, 11:42 PM
Quote direct from Redford when interviewed on that bastion of unbiased journalism NPR:
On the California election: "To me it's just ridiculous to have this recall vote. To let some right-wing guy with a lot of money step in there and try to unravel the democratic process is to me unthinkable."


Naw, that doesn't sound biased at all. Screw Redford and Peltier and the rest of the Left.

Zundfolge
June 20, 2005, 11:47 PM
My defense would have been, "Damned right I shot your agents and here is why!" (Followed by a full recount of self-defense.)

Yeah ... self-defense ... because FBI agents are all trained to hit targets at 250+ yards with their .38 pistols, so shooting them from that distance (then driving up for a Coup-de-Grāce on the one who survived but was incapacitated) is CLEARLY self-defense :rolleyes:

Robert Redford narrates the entire documentary. The last thing Redford is is a left-wing liar

Holy Cats! Its clear you have no idea who Robert Redford is ... he's a long-standing and proud left-wing liar!

Jammer Six
June 20, 2005, 11:48 PM
What I have picked up on is that bigotry is bad on THR, unless it is conservative bigotry.
Then you haven't been paying attention.

The lesson was vocabularly, nothing more.

secamp32
June 20, 2005, 11:49 PM
Robert Redford narrates the entire documentary. The last thing Redford is is a left-wing liar.

Redford is far to the left of center. And he is a fan of Che Guevara, who was a terrorist.

From the limited reading I've done Peltier is guilty as sin.

2nd Amendment
June 20, 2005, 11:52 PM
After casually reviewing Peltier's story over the years, it's vaguely interesting to me, I've come to a couple conclusions: I have no idea if Peltier is innocent, but I do know that, based on evidence the jury never heard and how the government handled the entire trial, that said trial was a mockery. Peltier should have been retried, from scratch, without all the machinations. That would have settled this years ago.

Peltier may be a political pawn of his own making, but the chess game being played is all the fault of government stupidity. As usual.

Cosmoline
June 20, 2005, 11:56 PM
Yeah ... self-defense ... because FBI agents are all trained to hit targets at 250+ yards with their .38 pistols, so shooting them from that distance (then driving up for a Coup-de-Grāce on the one who survived but was incapacitated) is CLEARLY self-defense

The FBI's tactics didn't make them right. It just made them very stupid. The FBI made similar mistakes in Miami.

Frankly I'll believe Redford and the left wingers over the feds any day. The leftists are annoying, but the feds are evil.

2nd Amendment
June 21, 2005, 12:02 AM
For anyone unfamilar with events, a fairly accurate timeline. I think the items listed here explain why I believe a retrial should have taken place years ago. Even if Peltier were convicted again it would have at least closed the book on this mess:

http://www.yvwiiusdinvnohii.net/LeonardPeltier/PeltierChronology.htm

Malone LaVeigh
June 21, 2005, 01:47 AM
Welcome to the fantasy world of right-wing political correctness, Nightwatch. These people will wail and gnash their teeth teeth and cry crocodile tears over some racist lowlife like Randy Weaver, but those sentiments don't apply to a poor Indian on a Res or black activists in the big evil city. Some of those obviously-guilty miscreants might have held forbidden leftist opinions or been defended by (horror of horrors) a liberal or something. They'd be funny if they weren't so patheticly predictable.

For the record, I think the FBI agents committed murder at Ruby Ridge. All in a day's work for them, and a drop in the bucket compared to what's been done by them and other state security agencies to Indians, blacks, labor organizers, anti-war activists, leftists of all types, and anyone else that threatens the excesses of this government. Right wingers have just begun to know what it's like to get that sort of attention. You wouldn't know it from the whining you hear about their "rights" but with a little more experience, they might begin to get a clue.

Sindawe
June 21, 2005, 02:13 AM
The federal .gov rail-roaded an Indian? <GASP> :what: Why, they'd NEVER do such a thing! /sarcasm These people will wail and gnash their teeth teeth and cry crocodile tears over some racist lowlife like Randy Weaver, but those sentiments don't apply to a poor Indian on a Res or black activists in the big evil city. I gather you've not been paying attention here on THR. The sense *I* gather is the most of our fellow High Roaders loath tyranny no matter WHO it is directed at.

boofus
June 21, 2005, 02:16 AM
If the left came out in support of Weaver or Koresh I'd be more inclined to believe the reports from ATF and FBI. When their stars are ward churchill, peta, brady/vpc, michael moore, amnesty(enemy) international, and george soros it tends to strain the credibility of ANY cause they support.

If the left didn't make so much noise about Peltier I would probably give a damn. They've cried WOLF! far too many times for me to take them seriously.

Malone LaVeigh
June 21, 2005, 02:21 AM
I gather you've not been paying attention here on THR. The sense *I* gather is the most of our fellow High Roaders loath tyranny no matter WHO it is directed at.That's probably true of most High Roaders. I was referring to the usual right-wingers that can be counted on to knee-jerk to anything remotely "leftist."

Jammer Six
June 21, 2005, 02:44 AM
The sense *I* gather is the most of our fellow High Roaders loath tyranny no matter WHO it is directed at.
The only problem there is that it's only "most".

mics357
June 21, 2005, 03:05 AM
nightwatch
I agree that Peltier got rammed. from what I can remember and after checking timeline it's quite clear the gov. screwed up (suprise) a typical example of their using tnt to kill a fly attitude. the same with weaver and countless others. for the record I find injustice wrong no matter where it comes from on the political spectrum. wrong is wrong no matter who says it.

beerslurpy
June 21, 2005, 07:59 AM
You can whine all you want about how the left is trumpeting his cause, but the simple fact is that the government railroaded him and did an incredibly sloppy job of it. So sloppy that I beleive the intent was to show that they had the ability to do so without being called to task for it.

I think the message they wanted to send to the native american political movements was "we can screw you and no one will care." A message most Natives already get.

NIGHTWATCH
June 21, 2005, 09:11 AM
I was referring to the usual right-wingers that can be counted on to knee-jerk to anything remotely "leftist."

Ditto ML. ;)

NIGHTWATCH
June 21, 2005, 09:15 AM
If they would just watch the film and reserve judgement, that would be cool.

"It seems everyone in Hollywood is getting pinched, lifted and pulled. I'm looking weird because I'm not" ~ Robert Redford

I think Redford is more independent than the extremes would hope for.

JohnBT
June 21, 2005, 09:55 AM
http://minneapolis.fbi.gov/peltier.htm

"Since the trial, Peltier has admitted, on the 60 Minutes television program on September 22, 1991, that he had shot at the Agents."

So all y'all are saying he shot at them and missed?

John

2nd Amendment
June 21, 2005, 10:22 AM
No, we're saying the trial was a hideous example of blatant government abuse of power and needs to be fixed. A retrial would answer all the questions and end the debate. Whether he's guilty or not isn't the (main) issue here.

scubie02
June 21, 2005, 10:26 AM
shooting at them and killing them is two separate things. The government's own ballistic test, that they tried to cover up, showed that it wasn't his rifle that killed them.

No one has ever accused me of being a left-winger. But I know a screw job when I see one. Some day some people might wake up and realize "the government is not your friend". They routinely lie. I know, I used to work in the senate, I saw it first hand. You may wish to believe otherwise for your own comfort level. You'll rapidly be getting the government you deserve--we're almost there now.

NIGHTWATCH
June 21, 2005, 10:26 AM
Shot at and executing them are two very different things. And for the sake of argument, say he did. The subsequent criminal tactics by the government to bring him from Canada and the killings by death squads of over 50 AIM members should be more of a concern.

Criminal government is a threat to all of us. That should be the focus. GOD! Why do people refuse to get that until it creeps up and bites them on the ass? And then they call out for help because the machine turns on them? Jeeshhh! :rolleyes:

richyoung
June 21, 2005, 12:26 PM
Shot at and executing them are two very different things. And for the sake of argument, say he did. The subsequent criminal tactics by the government to bring him from Canada and the killings by death squads of over 50 AIM members should be more of a concern.

Canadian gov sez he was legally extradidted. Care to name the 50 suposedly killed by "death squads" so we can research it ourselves?

MechAg94
June 21, 2005, 01:46 PM
You know, I get pretty tired of lefty losers accusing conservatives of being bigots and govt boot kissers every time we don't agree with you. Throwing the race card out there is also a pretty low thing to do especially when no one even commented on that except you. :fire:

Mr. X
June 21, 2005, 02:16 PM
My feeling is that he deserves a re-trial - no more, no less. Sounds like there are at least a few reasonable doubts in the case.

Malone LaVeigh
June 21, 2005, 03:46 PM
So all y'all are saying he shot at them and missed? Ever heard of self-defense?

You know, I get pretty tired of lefty losers accusing conservatives of being bigots and govt boot kissers every time we don't agree with you. Throwing the race card out there is also a pretty low thing to do especially when no one even commented on that except you. And I'm pretty tired of right-wing whack jobs thoughtlessly accusing every non-conservative who gets into a dust-up with the JBTs of being a cop killer. The only person I called a racist is Randy Weaver, which I think is how he described himself.

Jammer Six
June 21, 2005, 04:24 PM
The only person I called a racist is Randy Weaver, which I think is how he described himself.
Actually, he described himself as a racial separatist, which is a different type of fool.

Basically speaking, I hold racist, whether covert, overt or unwitting in contempt, but contempt is such a strong thing that I believe that the first thing one must do is discriminate between different attitudes, and Weaver never said he was a racist.

NIGHTWATCH
June 21, 2005, 04:49 PM
Care to name the 50 suposedly killed by "death squads" so we can research it ourselves?

Sorry......... 60 "suposedly" killed.

Leon L. Swift Bird
AIM member killed at Pine Ridge by GOONs
Investigation still "ongoing."

1.5.1976
Lydia Cut Grass
AIM member killed at Wounded Knee by GOONs
No investigation

1.17.1974
Edward Means, Jr.
AIM member found dead in Pine Ridge alley, beaten
No investigation

1.30.1976??
Byron DeSersa
OSCRO organizer and AIM supporter assassinated by GOONs in Wanblee.? Arrests by local authorities resulted in two GOONs - Dale Janis and Charlie Winters, serving two years of five year sentences for "manslaughter."
Charges dropped against two Goon leaders, Manny Wilson and Chuck Richards , on the basis of "self-defense" despite DeSersa having been unarmed when shot to death.

2.1976
Anna Mae Pictou Aquash
AIM organizer assassinated on Pine Ridge
FBI involved in attempt to conceal cause of death. Ongoing attempt to establish "AIM involvement" in murder. Key FBI personnel never deposed. Coroner never deposed. [depose-to remove from power...to testify or bear witness, especially on oath in court]


2.6.1976
Lena R. Slow Bear
AIM supporter killed at Oglala by GOONs
No investigation

2.27.1974
Edward Standing Soldier
AIM member killed near Pine Ridge by "party or parties unknown."
No investigation

3.1.1975
Martin Montileaux
killed in a Scenic, S.D. bar. AIM leader
Richard Marshall later framed for his murder. Russell Means also charged and acquitted

3.1.1976
Hobart Horse
AIM member beaten, shot, and repeatedly run over with automobile at Sharp's Corners
No investigation

3.20.1975
Stacy Cotter
shot to death in an ambush at Manderson
No investigation

3.21.1975
Edith Eagle Hawk and her two children
AIM supporter killed in an automobile accident after being run off the road by a white vigilante, Albert Coomes. Coomes was also killed in the accident. Goon Mark Clifford identified as having also been in the Coomes car, escaped
Investigation closed without questioning Clifford

3.26.1976
Cleveland Reddest
AIM member killed at Kyle by "person or persons unknown."
No investigation

3.27.1975
Jeanette Bissonette
AIM supporter killed by sniper at Pine Ridge
Unsuccessful attempt to link AIM members to murder; no other investigation

3.30.1975
Richard Eagle
grandson of AIM supporter Gladys Bissonette killed while playing with loaded gun kept in the house as protection from Goon attacks
------------

4.4.1975
Hilda R. Good Buffalo
AIM supporter stabbed to death at Pine Ridge by GOONs
No investigation

4.4.1975
Jancita Eagle Deer
AIM member beaten and run over with automobile. Last seen in the company of provocateur Douglass Durham
No investigation

4.14.1973
Priscilla White Plume
AIM supporter killed at Manderson by GOONs
No investigation

4.17.1973
Frank Clearwater
AIM member killed by heavy machine gun round at Wounded Knee
No investigation

4.19.1974
Roxeine Roark
AIM supporter killed at Porcupine by "unknown assailants."
Investigation open, still "pending."

4.23.1973
Between eight and twelve individuals (names unknown) packing supplies into wounded Knee were intercepted by GOONs [Guardians of the Oglala Nation] and vigilantes
None were ever heard from again. Former Rosebud Tribal President Robert Burnette and U.S. Justice Department Solicitor General Kent Frizzell conducted unsuccessful search for a mass grave after Wounded Knee siege
No further investigation

4.27.1973
Buddy Lamont
AIM member hit by M16 fire at Wounded Knee, Bled to death while pinned down by fire
No investigation

4.28.1976?
Betty Jo Dubray
AIM supporter beaten to death at Martin, S.D.
No investigation

5.6.1976
Marvin Two Two
Aim supporter shot to death at Pine Ridge
No investigation

5.9.1976
Julia Pretty Hips
AIM supporter killed at Pine Ridge by "unknown assailants."
No investigation

5.20.1975
Ben Sitting Up
AIM member killed at Wanblee by "unknown assailants."
No investigation

5.24.1976
Sam Afraid of Bear
AIM supporter shot to death at Pine Ridge
Investigation "ongoing."

6.1.1975
Kenneth Little
AIM supporter killed at Pine Ridge by GOONs
Investigation still "pending."

6.4.1976?
Kevin Hill
AIM supporter killed at Oglala by "party or parties unknown."
Investigation "still open."

6.15.1975
Leah Spotted Elk
AIM supporter at Pine Ridge by GOONs
No investigation

6.19.1973
Clarence Cross
AIM supporter shot to death in ambush by GOONs
Although assailants were identified by eyewitnesses, brother Vernal Cross, wounded in ambush-was briefly charged with crime. No further investigation

6.26.1975
Joseph Stuntz Killsright
AIM member killed by FBI sniper during Oglala firefight
No investigation



7.3.1976
Betty Means
AIM member killed at Pine Ridge by GOONs
No investigation

7.12.1975
James Briggs Yellow
heart attack caused by FBI air assault on his home
No investigation

7.25.1975
Andrew Paul Stewart
nephew of AIM spiritual leader Leonard Crow Dog, killed by GOONs on Pine Ridge
No investigation

7.30.1973
Julius Bad Heart Bull
AIM supporter killed at Oglala by "person or persons unknown."
No investigation

7.31.1976
Sandra Wounded Foot
AIM supporter killed at Sharp's Corners by "unknown assailants."
No investigation

8.25.1975
Randy Hunter
AIM supporter killed at Kyle by "party or parties unknown"
Investigation still "ongoing."

9.7.1974
Dennis LeCompte
AIM member killed at Pine Ridge by GOONs
No investigation

9.9.1975
Howard Blue Bird
AIM supporter killed at Pine Ridge by GOONs
No investigation

9.10.1975
Jim Little
AIM stomped to death by GOONs in Oglala
No investigation

9.11.1974
Jackson Washinton Cutt
AIM member killed at Parmalee by "unknown individuals."
Investigation still "ongoing."

9.16.1974?
Robert Reddy
AIM member killed at Kyle by gunshot
No investigation

9.22.1973
Melvin Spider
AIM member killed Porcupine, South Dakota
No investigation

9.23.1973
Philip Black Elk
AIM supporter killed when his house exploded
No investigation

10.5.1973
Aloysius Long Soldier
AIM member killed at Kyle, S.D. by GOONs
No investigation

10.10.1973
Phillip Little Crow
AIM supporter beaten to death by GOONs at Pine Ridge
No investigation

10.17.1973
Pedro Bissonette
Oglala Sioux Civil Rights Organization (OSCRO) organizer and AIM supporter assassinated by BIA Police/GOONs. Body removed from Pine Ridge jurisdiction prior to autopsy by government contract coroner
No investigation

10.26.1975?
Olivia Binais
AIM supporter killed in Porcupine by "person or persons unknown."
Investigation still "open."

10.26.1975
Janice Black Bear
AIM supporter killed at Manderson by GOONs
No investigation

10.27.1975
Michelle Tobacco
AIM supporter killed at Pine Ridge by "unknown persons."
No investigation

11.16.1974
Delphine Crow Dog
sister of AIM spiritual leader Leonard Crow Dog. Beaten by BIA police and left lying in a field. Died from "exposure."
No investigation

11.20.1974
Elaine Wagner
AIM supporter killed at Pine Ridge by "person or persons unknown."
No investigation

11.20.1973
Allison Fast Horse
AIM supporter shot to death near Pine Ridge by "unknown assailants."
No investigation

12.6.1975
Carl Plenty Arrows Sr.
AIM supporter killed at Pine Ridge by "unknown persons."
No investigation

12.6.1975
Frank LaPointe
AIM supporter killed at Pine Ridge by GOONs
No investigation

12.25.1975
Floyd S. Binais
AIM supporter killed at Pine Ridge by GOONs
No investigation

12.28.1974
Yvette Loraine Lone Hill
AIM supporter killed at Kyle by "unknown party or parties."
No investigation





Link- http://siouxme.com/lodge/ind_deaths_1.html

richyoung
July 7, 2005, 03:09 PM
Sorry......... 60 "suposedly" killed.

Leon L. Swift Bird
AIM member killed at Pine Ridge by GOONs
Investigation still "ongoing."

WRONG - Swift Bird died as a result of domestic violence - his "ol lady", Dorothy Iris Poor Bear, pled guilty to shanking him terminally.
1.5.1976
Lydia Cut Grass
AIM member killed at Wounded Knee by GOONs
No investigation

COMPLETELY false - the FBI DID investigate this death, as it was thought at the time to be related to a beating that Darlene Black Bear administered to her 3 weeks previously. As it turns out, she died from ALCOHOL POISONING - she drank herself to death! Not off to a good start...

1.17.1974
Edward Means, Jr.
AIM member found dead in Pine Ridge alley, beaten
No investigation

Not true - there was an investigation and an autopsy...autopsy report indicated cause of death to be hypothermia, related to acute alcoholic intoxication.

1.30.1976??
Byron DeSersa
OSCRO organizer and AIM supporter assassinated by GOONs in Wanblee.? Arrests by local authorities resulted in two GOONs - Dale Janis and Charlie Winters, serving two years of five year sentences for "manslaughter."
Charges dropped against two Goon leaders, Manny Wilson and Chuck Richards , on the basis of "self-defense" despite DeSersa having been unarmed when shot to death.

WRONG again - the facts...
Byron De Sersa of Wanblee, SD was shot and killed on 1/31/76 while driving his motor vehicle on the outskirts of Wanblee, SD. Defendants Billie Dean Wilson and Lonnie Dean Bettelyoun were found not guilty by a jury on 3/2/77. Codefendant Charles David Winters pleaded guilty to accessory after the fact to second degree murder and was sentenced to 5 years in prison. Defendant Dale Francis Janis was tried on second degree murder charges and found guilty by a federal jury and was sentenced 5/16/77 under the Federal Youth Corrections Act, 18 U.S.C. 4219 until pardoned by the Bureau of Prisons or the U.S. Parole Commission.

2.1976
Anna Mae Pictou Aquash
AIM organizer assassinated on Pine Ridge
FBI involved in attempt to conceal cause of death. Ongoing attempt to establish "AIM involvement" in murder. Key FBI personnel never deposed. Coroner never deposed. [depose-to remove from power...to testify or bear witness, especially on oath in court]

Again - not true...In September, 1976, Anna Mae Pictou Aquash's partially decomposed body was discovered in a remote area in the northeastern part of the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, South Dakota. Cause of death was eventually determined to be a gunshot wound to the head. Through crime scene and other investigation it became apparent that Aquash had been executed.

In June, 1975, FBI SAs Jack Coler and Ron Williams were ambushed and killed execution-style on Pine Ridge. The ensuring major case investigation, RESMURS, resulted in the trial and conviction of Leonard Peltier, and the trial and acquittal of two other individuals. Some attention had been focused on Aquash for her possible knowledge about and/or involvement in the slayings. Investigation disclosed that rumors began circulating that Aquash was cooperating with the government and was an FBI informant. These rumors were unfounded and untrue. Aquash died while in fugitive status for her failure to appear in U.S. District Court, Pierre, South Dakota.

The coroner was never deposed as he died shortly after performing the autopsy on Aquash.

April, 2003, as a result of a South Dakota, federal grand jury indictment, Arlo Looking Cloud, 49, was arrested in Denver for the kidnapping and first-degree murder of Anna Mae Pictou-Aquash. The U.S. Attorney's office, Sioux Falls, SD would not comment on whether additional arrests are expected. Looking Cloud is expected to be removed to South Dakota to stand trial. If convicted he faces a mandatory life sentence.

2.6.1976
Lena R. Slow Bear
AIM supporter killed at Oglala by GOONs
No investigation

Disposition: On 03/30/1976, AUSA Bruce W. Boyd, Rapid City, South Dakota, advised declination of any criminal prosecution and further investigation. An autopsy showed death was caused by alcohol intoxication and exposure. Unless "Jack Daniels" and "Johnny Walker" are "GOONS",....

2.27.1974
Edward Standing Soldier
AIM member killed near Pine Ridge by "party or parties unknown."
No investigation

On 02/18/1974, Edward Joseph Standing Soldier died of a gunshot wound to the abdomen. This information was determined by investigation of Les Davis from Pine Ridge death certificates. A true mystery - but no basis to claim FBI involvement.

3.1.1975
Martin Montileaux
killed in a Scenic, S.D. bar. AIM leader
Richard Marshall later framed for his murder. Russell Means also charged and acquitted

..if by "framed" you mean "named by the victim in his dying breath.." On 03/07/1975, Martin Montileaux died after being shot in the neck in a bar in Scenic, South Dakota. Russell Means and Richard Marshall were arrested by the Pennington County Sheriff's Office for the shooting of Montileaux. Montileaux's dying declaration was, "Russell Means' friend" was the person who shot him.

Disposition: Investigated by local authorities. Scenic, South Dakota, is approximately 20 miles north of the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation border. The FBI had no investigative jurisdiction in this matter.

3.1.1976
Hobart Horse
AIM member beaten, shot, and repeatedly run over with automobile at Sharp's Corners
No investigation

Wrong again...Hobart Kenneth Horse - died on 3/27/77 from multiple gunshot wounds. Roger James Cline was charged with the shooting death of Horse on 3/28/77 and found guilty of voluntary manslaughter on 9/8/77. Cline was sentenced to 10 years.

3.20.1975
Stacy Cotter
shot to death in an ambush at Manderson
No investigation

WRONG - see conviction below.
The body of Stacy Cortier was found 3/21/75 in Manderson, SD with numerous bullet wounds. Cortier was shot some time during the evening or early morning of 3/20-21/75. After apparent arguments and a car being shot up, Jerry Bear Shield may have been shot in the neck by Cortier and Bear Shield in turn killed Cortier. Jerry Bear Shield was convicted 10/23/75 upon plea of guilty in USDC, Rapid City, SD to an information charging violation of USC, Section 1153 and 1112 (Voluntary Manslaughter). Bear Shield was sentenced to one year in custody. The indictment of 9/4/75 of Second Degree Murder was dismissed.

3.21.1975
Edith Eagle Hawk and her two children
AIM supporter killed in an automobile accident after being run off the road by a white vigilante, Albert Coomes. Coomes was also killed in the accident. Goon Mark Clifford identified as having also been in the Coomes car, escaped
Investigation closed without questioning Clifford

sounds like a car wreck to me...

3.26.1976
Cleveland Reddest
AIM member killed at Kyle by "person or persons unknown."
No investigation

Not true - Died as a result of a hit and run accident on a road, 18 miles east of Kyle, South Dakota. Evidence points to Reddest lying in the road before the accident. Possible suspects Linda White Crane and Aloysius White Crane. Both took polygraph exams and it is felt neither was deceptive during questioning. Both agreed Aloysius was driving the vehicle that hit Reddest but it was not intentional. On 5/12/1976 Federal Grand Jury, Sioux Falls, South Dakota, returned a no bill on this matter. Case closed. All evidence destroyed.

3.27.1975
Jeanette Bissonette
AIM supporter killed by sniper at Pine Ridge
Unsuccessful attempt to link AIM members to murder; no other investigation
Shot and killed about eight miles north of Pine Ridge, South Dakota, when her car broke down on her way home from the wake of a recent murder victim on the reservation. Shot with a .35 caliber Remington. No positive information was developed to identify the individual responsible. Case closed administratively.

3.30.1975
Richard Eagle
grandson of AIM supporter Gladys Bissonette killed while playing with loaded gun kept in the house as protection from Goon attacks

Died of a gunshot wound to the head. Eagle was shot with a .22 caliber sawed off shotgun rifle he and other children were handling in his grandmother's (Gladys Bissonette) home on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation. Gladys advised interviewing agents to contact her attorney with any questions. On 04/09/1975, South Dakota AUSA Von Wald advised since this case appears to be accidental he wanted the matter referred to ATF for investigation of the National Firearms Act. On 04/10/1975, the above named weapon was turned over to Donald Herman, U.S. Marshal, Rapid City, South Dakota, to be held as evidence. FBI discontinued investigation.
------------

4.4.1975
Hilda R. Good Buffalo
AIM supporter stabbed to death at Pine Ridge by GOONs
No investigation

Again - not true. Found dead in her home in Pine Ridge. She did have a superficial stab wound on her neck and there had been a small fire in her home. The autopsy stated the cause of death as carbon monoxide poisoning; acute alcoholism and other items were noted on the autopsy. (Agents Walker and Daniels strike again!) Source advised Douglas White and Douglas Chief killed Good Buffalo for $60. All incriminating statements were denied. Matter presented to Federal Grand Jury (FGJ) in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. AUSA Hagg advised on 07/06/1976 that this case was considered by the FGJ on 04/14/1976 and was declared to be nonfelonious.

4.4.1975
Jancita Eagle Deer
AIM member beaten and run over with automobile. Last seen in the company of provocateur Douglass Durham
No investigation

Case still open...

4.14.1973
Priscilla White Plume
AIM supporter killed at Manderson by GOONs
No investigation

There was an investigation - Believed struck and killed in a hit and run accident, near Manderson, South Dakota, by a vehicle believed to be driven by Stewart Brings Plenty. (All investigation on the Rosebud Reservation was held in abeyance during this time due to volatile situations involving the Russell Means incident.) On 09/28/1976, South Dakota AUSA Bruce W. Boyd advised he entered a prosecutive memorandum declining prosecution in this matter because there is insufficient evidence to establish a Federal crime has been committed and there is insufficient evidence to establish the perpetrator of this crime. In view of the declination, no further investigation was conducted by the FBI.

4.17.1973
Frank Clearwater
AIM member killed by heavy machine gun round at Wounded Knee
No investigation

Victim was shot at a road block in Wounded Knee, South Dakota, during gunfire fight when federal agents were fired upon and they returned fire. Victim and his wife hitchhiked to Wounded Knee from Cherokee, North Carolina, about three weeks previous, "to help their people." Clearwater died in the hospital and was granted permission to be buried on the Rosebud Indian Reservation. Letter from Director Kelley, dated 08/22/1973, advises facts obtained indicated Clearwater's death was the result of gunfire received from Federal law enforcement officials, after 6-8 individuals began firing at Deputy U.S. Marshals at a road block on 4/13/73. Communication (last serial in file) dated 12/16/1974 states a source advised Dennis Banks ordered Clearwater to be taken outside of the church and shot and this was done. Due to the volatile situation at Wounded Knee at that time, no in depth investigation was conducted as the safety of law enforcement officials would be jeopardized.

4.19.1974
Roxeine Roark
AIM supporter killed at Porcupine by "unknown assailants."
Investigation open, still "pending."

Accidental discharge - Teacher at the Porcupine Day School, shot in stomach with a .357 magnum pistol at her residence in Porcupine, South Dakota. Paul Cedar Face and Roxeine were handling a the weapon when it discharged accidentally. Roxeine died enroute to the hospital. Letter dated 09/03/1974, from USA, Sioux Falls, South Dakota, advised this matter was presented to Grand Jury on 08/29/1974 and a no bill was returned. MP closing report dated 09/30/1974.

4.23.1973
Between eight and twelve individuals (names unknown) packing supplies into wounded Knee were intercepted by GOONs [Guardians of the Oglala Nation] and vigilantes
None were ever heard from again. Former Rosebud Tribal President Robert Burnette and U.S. Justice Department Solicitor General Kent Frizzell conducted unsuccessful search for a mass grave after Wounded Knee siege
No further investigation

No names, no bodies,...just WHAT exactly do you want investigated?

4.27.1973
Buddy Lamont
AIM member hit by M16 fire at Wounded Knee, Bled to death while pinned down by fire
No investigation

Died at WKII

4.28.1976?
Betty Jo Dubray
AIM supporter beaten to death at Martin, S.D.
No investigation

Case still unsolved...

5.6.1976
Marvin Two Two
Aim supporter shot to death at Pine Ridge
No investigation

No information available - not even a death cirtificate.

5.9.1976
Julia Pretty Hips
AIM supporter killed at Pine Ridge by "unknown assailants."
No investigation

Julia Pretty Hips, DOB 7/11/12, was found dead near the Public School area of the Pine Ridge Reservation. She was a resident of Gordon, NB.

Autopsy performed on 5/11/76 was unable to contribute death beyond carbon tetrachloide poisoning ("huffing", perhaps?) which led to pneumonia Sperm was found, but no signs of trauma.

This case was thoroughly investigated by the Rapid City RA. Since there was no physical evidence beyond autopsy findings, this case was closed administratively on 12/6/76.

5.20.1975
Ben Sitting Up
AIM member killed at Wanblee by "unknown assailants."
No investigation

Not "Unknown" - it was his adopted son! In May, 1975, Benjamin Sitting Up was killed by an individual using an axe. At first this incident was thought to be from a spousal fight. Subsequently, through interviews of Isabelle Sitting Up, the subject was thought to be Elmer Red Eyes, an I/M they had raised.

AUSA declined prosecution of Red Eyes because of his mental condition and because the case lacked evidence to prosecute Red Eyes.

5.24.1976
Sam Afraid of Bear
AIM supporter shot to death at Pine Ridge
Investigation "ongoing."

Body of victim was discovered on the Pine Ridge Reservation on 5/20/76. He had been beaten to death. Rudolph Running Shield pled guilty in 7/77. Luke Black Elk, Jr. was found guilty in U.S. D.C. of 2nd Degree Murder and sentenced to serve 15 years on 2/9/78.


6.1.1975
Kenneth Little
AIM supporter killed at Pine Ridge by GOONs
Investigation still "pending."

Victim was struck with a tire iron in Pine Ridge by Antoine William Blue Bird during a quarrel on 611175. Subject was found guilty in U.S.D.C., Rapid City on 10/14/75 and sentenced on 10/14/75 to 7yrs, 6mos. probation.

richyoung
July 7, 2005, 03:10 PM
6.4.1976?
Kevin Hill
AIM supporter killed at Oglala by "party or parties unknown."
Investigation "still open."

Kenneth Mansfield Hill - Deceased 6/5/76

Gary Manuel Cheyenne
Kevin Mansfield Hill - Victim
CIR - Murder/Robbery

Victim, DOB 8/14/51, a w/m (white male) from Los Angeles was hitchhiking in Oelrich, S.D. when picked up by subject and three others. Subject stabbed victim 19 times presumably for his money.

Subject, DOB 2/23/59 and a juvenile, was convicted on 10/12/76 in U.S.D.C. of 2nd Degree Murder. He was sentenced on 1/3/77 to 15 years in prison. Subject appealed case to U.S. Supreme Court, #77-5377, but petition was denied 11/14177.

6.15.1975
Leah Spotted Elk
AIM supporter at Pine Ridge by GOONs
No investigation

Hardly! Kenneth John Returns From Scout pled guilty on 10/13/75 to shooting Leah Spotted Elk, his wife, while drinking on 6/15/75 at Wolf Creek, S.D. He was sentenced to 2 years, 5 months probation.

6.19.1973
Clarence Cross
AIM supporter shot to death in ambush by GOONs
Although assailants were identified by eyewitnesses, brother Vernal Cross, wounded in ambush-was briefly charged with crime. No further investigation

Finding:

Clarence Cross- Deceased 6/19/73, aka
Clarence Joseph Cross, Lm, DOB 6/l/39;
Clarence Devill Cross
Clarence Jay Cross
Clarence Davill Cross

Pearil Marie Claussen;
Roy Alexander Black Lance,
Bia Police Officer;
Vernal Cross - Victim;
Clarence Cross - Victim;

This case was a civil rights case against subjects who supposedly shot and wounded victims during an arrest on 7/11/73, near Batesland, SD. The arrest was for an assault charge filed by Arlene Cross.

The car that the victim's were riding in was stopped by the subjects and when victims resisted arrest they were shot by the subjects. Vernal Cross was treated at Gordon, NB Hospital and released. Clarence Cross was shot in the stomach and right thigh and ultimately died of complications at Fitzsimons Army Medical Center, Aurora, CO. An autopsy was performed and cause of death was noted at Peritonitic with clinical generalized sepsis from the gun shot wound in the abdomen.

This case went before a Grand Jury in Sioux Falls, SD and on 8/29/74, a No Bill was returned. The DOJ on 3/9/74 and they advised to conduct no further investigation until the Assaulting a Federal Officer case had been adjudicated. This case, MP 89-183 was destroyed on 9/11/77.

Conclusion: Based upon the above information, Clarence Cross was alive on 6/19/73 and did not pass away until after 7/11/73.

In review of file, an exact date of death could not be located. The Denver office (44-1052) was liaison at the Fitzsimons Army Medical Center.

6.26.1975
Joseph Stuntz Killsright
AIM member killed by FBI sniper during Oglala firefight
No investigation

Joseph Stuntz Killsright; True Name - Joseph Bedell Stuntz, DOB 10/22/51.

STUNTZ was shot and killed during Resmurs, 6/26/75. Subject was seen shooting at SA's Williams and Coler at Jumping Bull Community and his body was found alongside the Green House near the edge of the cliff. Stuntz was apparently shot by a law enforcement officer at the scene. When the body of Stuntz was found, he was wearing a SWAT fatigue jacket with "F.B.I." on the back, belonging to SA Coler that had apparently been taken from the trunk of SA Coler's vehicle after SA Coler was shot. Stunz s one of the prime suspects for actually firing the contact wounds into the already-wounded special agents during the incident for which Peltier was arrested and tried.

7.3.1976
Betty Means
AIM member killed at Pine Ridge by GOONs
No investigation

On 7/3/76, Betty Lou Means, Age 27, found dead along Highway 18 several miles east of Pine Ridge, South Dakota on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation. Victim apparently hit by vehicle.

Investigation reflected that John Francis Good Voice was driving vehicle which struck victim. Investigation also reflected that his wife Arlene Jeanette Good Voice grabbed and jerked steering wheel which caused vehicle to hit victim.

On 12/2/76, the USA's Office, Sioux Falls, South Dakota, declined prosecution of John Francis Good Voice for the reasons that he is guilty of leaving the scene of an accident, a crime not prosecutable in Federal Court.

On 7/8/77, Arlene Good Voice pled guilty to Assault, Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1153 and 113(d) and received 18 months probation on 8/22/77 in United States District Court, Rapid City, South Dakota.

7.12.1975
James Briggs Yellow
heart attack caused by FBI air assault on his home
No investigation

Died of heart attack complications after "no knock" warant served on his home in the course of investigating the Peltier incident.

7.25.1975
Andrew Paul Stewart
nephew of AIM spiritual leader Leonard Crow Dog, killed by GOONs on Pine Ridge
No investigation

Suicide - On 7/26/75, a Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) Agency Special Officer, Rosebud Indian Reservation, South Dakota advised that Andrew Stewart, Indian male, was dead on arrival at Public Health Service Hospital, Rosebud, South Dakota on 7/26/75. Stewart was shot in the head.

On 2/5/76, Assistant U. S. Attorney David R. Gienapp, Sioux Falls, South Dakota declined prosecution in the death of Andrew Stewart in view of the fact no specific subjects developed and also due to the fact the autopsy report revealed the cause of death for Andrew Stewart was probably a self-inflicted gunshot wound, such as a suicidal injury.

In view of the fact that the allegation by Chris Horvath, Rosebud, South Dakota, proved to be false and also due to the fact AUSA Gienapp declined prosecution in the Andrew Stewart case, no further investigation conducted by Minneapolis FBI

7.30.1973
Julius Bad Heart Bull
AIM supporter killed at Oglala by "person or persons unknown."
No investigation

Julius Bad Heart Bull was the victim of an assault occurring near Oglala, South Dakota, on 7/30/73. Witnesses to incident advised Bartholomew Joseph Long knocked victim on ground with fist, picked up a 2 x 4 board, approximately three feet long, containing several protruding nails and hit victim in the head several times. Victim died at St. Joseph's Hospital, Rapid City, South Dakota at 8:20 a.m., 7/31/73.

Subject arrested on 8/3/73 and charged with Crime on Indian Reservation - Second Degree Murder.

On 1/11/74, subject appeared in United States District Court for the District of South Dakota, Rapid City, South Dakota and was sentenced to the custody of the Attorney General or his authorized representative for a period of life.

On 4/19/74 Bartholomew Joseph Long was committed to the custody of the Attorney General for 10 Years.

7.31.1976
Sandra Wounded Foot
AIM supporter killed at Sharp's Corners by "unknown assailants."
No investigation

On 8/16/76, Sandra Ellen Wounded Foot, age 15, was found shot in the head twice and naked in a remote area of the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation.

Subject Paul Duane Herman, Jr., who was a Bureau of Indian Affairs Investigator, was believed responsible for the murder. The victim was last seen alive with Herman in the early morning of 8/14/76.

On 8/16/78, a Federal Grand Jury for the District of South Dakota, Sioux Falls, South Dakota returned a true bill charging Paul Duane Herman, Jr., with violation of Title 18, U.S. Code, Sections 1153 and 1111. Herman was arrested on 8/24/78 at Fort McDowell, Arizona.

On 12/19/78, Herman pled guilty in U.S. District Court, Rapid City, South Dakota, to a superseding information charging him with violation of Title 18, U.S. Code, Sections 1153 and 1112, Voluntary Manslaughter. On 2/9/79, Herman was sentenced to ten years in the custody of the Attorney General for the above violations.

A newspaper article dated 2/19/79 from the Rapid City Journal, Rapid City, South Dakota indicated, in part, that two Pine Ridge Reservation organizations upset at the sentence imposed on Herman, a former Bureau of Indian Affairs policeman.

The Oglala Sioux Tribal Lawyers Association and Women of all Red Nations contend the charge and sentencing are evidence of a dual standard of justice and that Herman should have been charged with murder.

The groups contend that Herman was protected from murder prosecution because of his BIA position. Assistant U.S. Attorney, Gary Colbath said the decision to allow a guilty plea to a lesser charge was decided "strictly on the facts of the case."

8.25.1975
Randy Hunter
AIM supporter killed at Kyle by "party or parties unknown"
Investigation still "ongoing."

On evening of 8/25-26/75, Randy Hunter, Indian male, date of birth 11/16/55, was shot to death in the new housing, Kyle, South Dakota. Vern Carlin Top Bear, Indian male, date of birth 2/6/57, identified through witnesses as threatening victim with rifle and subsequently shooting rifle which resulted in Hunter's death. Top Bear was released to third party custody of his father on a $5,000 unsecured bond.

On 10/13/75, Vern Carlin Top Bear was found not guilty, by a jury, in United States District Court, Rapid City, of the indictment charging him with Second Degree Murder in violation of United States Code, Title 18, Sections 1153 and 1111.

9.7.1974
Dennis LeCompte
AIM member killed at Pine Ridge by GOONs
No investigation

Shot by parent after stabbing a child - real "Hero for the Movement" you got there! On 9/7/74, the Pine Ridge, South Dakota, Police Department dispatched radio broadcast indicating fight at the Glenn Three Stars residence, Pine Ridge, South Dakota. Upon arrival police found children in living room and LeCompte in northwest bedroom. Three Stars admitted shooting victim Dennis LeCompte during a struggle after LeCompte stabbed Three Stars' son with a knife. Three Stars arraigned before U.S. Magistrate, Rapid City, South Dakota on 9/9/74 and released on $5,000 Personal Bond to third party custody of Oglala Sioux Tribal Chairman Richard Wilson.

On 6/23/75 Three Stars indicted by Federal Grand Jury, Sioux Falls, South Dakota, Title 18, Section 1153, USC. Bond set at $5,000, ten percent.

On 10/15/75, Three Stars' trial commenced U.S. District Court, Deadwood, South Dakota. On 10/17/75, Three Stars found not guilty on charge of Voluntary Manslaughter.

9.9.1975
Howard Blue Bird
AIM supporter killed at Pine Ridge by GOONs
No investigation

On 9/4/75, at 11:56 a.m., the Pine Ridge, South Dakota Police Department received telephone call from unknown female indicating a fight and stabbing at the Le Roy Apple residence in Pine Ridge, South Dakota. Upon arrival Pine Ridge Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) policeman found victim Blue Bird lying in kitchen area. BIA and FBI responded to location of incident. On 9/5/75, Federal Grand Jury, Rapid City, South Dakota returned true bill charging subject with violation of Title 18, USC, Sections 1153 and 1112. On 9/10/75 subject Le Roy Apple interviewed and admitted stabbing Blue Bird.

On 10/15/75, subject Apple appeared before U.S. District Court, Deadwood, South Dakota, pled guilty to violation Title 18, U.S. Code, Section 113(c), Assault with a Deadly Weapon to Commit Bodily Injury. Subject Apple sentenced to one year in the custody of the Attorney General with no probation.

9.10.1975
Jim Little
AIM stomped to death by GOONs in Oglala
No investigation

On 9/10/75, between the hours of 5:00 and 5:30 p.m., James Little, Indian male, was kicked and beaten to death at the new housing, Oglala, South Dakota. Tom Chief Eagle, Cecil Bear Robe, Johnson Bear Robe and Fred Marrowbone identified through witnesses as having participated in the beating death of victim Little. Subjects arrested by Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) Officers on 9/11/75.

On 10/20/75 a Jury sitting in trial at Rapid City, South Dakota found subjects Thomas Chief Eagle, Johnson Bear Robe and Fred Marrowbone guilty of Voluntary Manslaughter, Title 18, U.S. Code, Section 1112(a). Cecil Bear Robe was found not guilty on same date.

On 12/5/75, Thomas Chief Eagle was sentenced to the custody of the U.S. Attorney for a period of six years; Johnson Bear Robe was sentenced to the custody of the U.S. Attorney General for a period of four years pursuant to the Federal Youth Corrections Act and Fred Marrowbone was sentenced to the custody of the U.S. Attorney General for a period of six years.

9.11.1974
Jackson Washinton Cutt
AIM member killed at Parmalee by "unknown individuals."
Investigation still "ongoing."

On 9/11/73, at 9:00 a.m., victim Jackson Washington Cutt's dead body was found in front of a residence in Parmelee, South Dakota. Information from witnesses and possible suspects indicated victim involved in fight sometime early morning 9/11/73.

An eyewitness observed Rudolph Runs Above hit victim Cutt over head with hatchet. Runs Above arrested on 12/27/73, Parmelee, South Dakota by Rosebud Police Department. Subject appeared before U.S. Magistrate, Pierre, South Dakota, on 12/27/73, and was remanded to custody of U.S. Marshal in lieu of $2,000 ten percent bond.

On 1/29/75 witness re-interviewed and advised that only difference from previous statement was that he did not actually see Rudolph Runs Above strike the victim with a hatchet. On 1/29/75 subject re-interviewed, admitted being near scene but denied involvement and denied knowledge of who perpetrated the crime.

By letter to Minneapolis FBI dated 3/18/75, Assistant U.S. Attorney Robert D. Hiaring, Sioux Falls, South Dakota, advised that a motion and order to dismiss the indictment in the above captioned matter was filed on 3/13/75.

Hiaring advised that the USA's Office had closed their file in the above captioned case. As a result of this information, no further investigation conducted by the Minneapolis FBI.

OF
July 7, 2005, 03:24 PM
That's gonna leave a mark... ;)

richyoung
July 7, 2005, 03:28 PM
9.16.1974?
Robert Reddy
AIM member killed at Kyle by gunshot
No investigation

Victim found dead by two young girls on 12/16/1974 near Kyle, S.D., on the Pine Ridge Reservation. Autopsy revealed Reddy died of two stab wounds through the heart. Victim identified as Robert Anthony Reddy, Sr., DOB 08/31/1932, POB Pine Ridge, S.D., 3/16th Indian, resident of Kyle, S.D. Repeated efforts to polygraph suspect, George White Thunder, of Kyle, a transient, met with negative results. Last contact with the Captain of the Oglala Sioux P.D. reflected White Thunder was unwilling to take a polygraph. A 04/5/1979 memo advised that a previously scheduled polygraph appointment for White Thunder was made, but White Thunder was avoiding law enforcement. No further investigation being made to contact White Thunder, as he would not take polygraph. Evidence is being retained in this case. The case was closed on 04/5/1979, but the case will be reopened if additional evidence is obtained or White Thunder submits to a polygraph.

9.22.1973
Melvin Spider
AIM member killed Porcupine, South Dakota
No investigation

On 09/22/1973, BIA Officer Barbara Brughier requested FBI assistance with regard to Melvin Spider being found dead on the road between Porcupine and Sharp's Corner on the Pine Ridge Reservation. Brughier said Spider was either a victim of a hit and run by a motor vehicle or by a severe blow to the head. Interviews reflect Spider was drunk prior to his death. An autopsy on 09/22/73 revealed Spider died on 09/21/1973 of extensive cerebral lacerations of the brain, which were traumatic in nature, the cause of which was not obvious. Spider was a resident of Porcupine, S.D. During an interview, Ronnie Kills Warrior advised Jerome Kills Small bragged to him in a bar of possibly hitting Spider, however, no one else heard the conversation and Kills Small had been drinking the night Spider died. On 08/15/1974, Roger Earl Byrd, a worker at Borman Chevy in Gordon, was interviewed and advised the day Spider was killed an old rusty Chevy auto was towed in for repair work, he fixed it, and recalled seeing blood spattered on the passenger headrest and blood on an iron rod in the backseat. Byrd cleaned the vehicle after he worked on it and no one else at the shop saw the vehicle. Byrd recalled no outside damage to the vehicle. Byrd had been drinking prior to his interview. An interview with Jerry Borman, owner, Borman Chevy, advised his records showed no vehicles were towed in from Sharp's Corner on or about 09/22/1973.. Borman further advised that Roger Earl Byrd was not a reliable worker, had not done much work for him, and only worked on their grease rack. On 02/18/1975, this case was closed because all interviews met with negative results. This case will be reopened if the unknown subject is identified or other positive information is obtained.

9.23.1973
Philip Black Elk
AIM supporter killed when his house exploded
No investigation

Ah, but "killed when his house exploded" sounds SO much more sinister than "tried to light pilot light of water heater in house with propane leak" - in the "VICTIM'S" OWN WORDS! On 6/30/73, the private residence of Phillip Black Elk was completely destroyed by a propane gas explosion. Investigation determined that the explosion was caused by a leakage of propane gas within the residence. A thorough neighborhood investigation was conducted which revealed there had been a previous problem with propane gas leakage in the neighborhood over the previous two weeks.

Immediately after the explosion, Black Elk advised he entered the residence and attempted to light the pilot on the hot water heater when the explosion occurred.

Black Elk suffered severe burns and was immediately taken to the Pine Ridge Community Hospital, where he was listed in serious condition. Shortly thereafter, Black Elk was flown to Fitzsimmons General Hospital, Denver, Colorado, where he died.

10.5.1973
Aloysius Long Soldier
AIM member killed at Kyle, S.D. by GOONs
No investigation

sUICIDE. On 02/09/1977, DCI, contacted the FBI regarding an investigation their office was conducting. Minneapolis indices checks revealed no record of Aloysius Long Soldier being a murder victim. A prior indice search on 12/27/1976 also revealed no record of Aloysius Long Soldier, or his brother, Larry Long Soldier, being murder victims. Aloysius Long Soldier was born on 11/12/1939 and died on 10/07/1974. It appeared Larry Long Soldier died a year after Aloysius. On 2/16/1977, per her request, Germaine Long Soldier was interviewed by SA's regarding her brother, Aloysius', death. Germaine advised Aloysius died outside the Mary Ellen Bull Bear residence in Kyle, after being shot in the head. The gun belonged to Mary Bull Bear. There appeared to be a question by Germaine as to whether Aloysius shot himself or was shot. On 02/28/1977, the BIA investigative file into the death of Aloysius was reviewed and copied. It was the conclusion of the BIA (Case No. PR-74-62) that there was no evidence that the death of Aloysius was nothing other than a suicide and their case was closed. In view of the BIA investigative results, and since Germaine Long Soldier was unable to offer any new evidence into her brother's death, no further investigation remained and the FBI closed its file. The last serial was dated 03/11/1977
10.10.1973
Phillip Little Crow
AIM supporter beaten to death by GOONs at Pine Ridge
No investigation

On 11/14/1973, on the Pine Ridge Reservation, Irby Leroy Hand, in a sudden quarrel and heat of passion, killed Phillip Emery Little Crow by striking him with his fists. Phillip Emery Little Crow was born 09/08/1920, had FBI# 166873A and had SSN 503-12-2820. Hand signed a confession. Autopsy results revealed Little Crow died of a skull fracture. On 08/28/1974, Hand was sentenced to five years custody of the Attorney General and AUSA Brian Hagg, Rapid City, closed the case. On 04/15/1976, AUSA Hagg advised the FBI to destroy the evidence.

10.17.1973
Pedro Bissonette
Oglala Sioux Civil Rights Organization (OSCRO) organizer and AIM supporter assassinated by BIA Police/GOONs. Body removed from Pine Ridge jurisdiction prior to autopsy by government contract coroner
No investigation

"Assasinated"? Hardly - more like "suicide by cop" - read on...Article in 157-3345-46, 47, says Pedro Bissonette was killed on a highway four miles north of Pine Ridge. BIA officers tried to arrest Bissonette on two fugitive warrants, one stemming from his Wounded Knee activities. When Bissonette advanced on the officers with a raised 30.06, he was shot. Prior to the time he was shot, Bissonette previously eluded two other BIA police officers five hours earlier. Bissonette was one of the AIM leaders at the 71-day Wounded Knee takeover. Autopsy results revealed Bissonette was killed by a single shotgun blast in the chest fired by a police officer.

10.26.1975?
Olivia Binais
AIM supporter killed in Porcupine by "person or persons unknown."
Investigation still "open."

Spousal abuse - On 10/26/1975, the BIA contacted the FBI to advise that Olivia Bianas was found dead at her home. An autopsy revealed Olivia died of a cerebral hemorrhage caused by a severe beating. Witnesses observed Norman Bianas beat his wife on the day she died. On 10/27/75, the AUSA had Norman Bianas arrested. On 11/13/1975, when being fingerprinted by a U.S. Marshal, Norman was asked his wife's name and he said that was the one he killed. On 01/23/1976, Norman pled not guilty to voluntary manslaughter, but withdrew it on 03/8/1976. On 07/09/1976, Norman was sentenced to eight years custody of the AG. Case closed 07/09/1976. A 04/01/1980 news article stated Bianas charged he did not understand his proceedings and had an ineffective attorney, but the U.S. Federal Appeals Court upheld his verdict.

10.26.1975
Janice Black Bear
AIM supporter killed at Manderson by GOONs
No investigation

Spousal abuse, alcohol and drug related...Janice Joyce Black Bear, born 06/28/1956, died on 10/26/1975. An autopsy revealed the cause of Black Bear's death was cerebral contusions. Contributing death factors were acute alcoholism and phenobarb/qualude intoxication. Twiss advised the Pine Ridge P.D. that he drank with victim all evening at a bar and they left together. Janice was pregnant at the time of her death with Twiss' child. Twiss recalled little after leaving the bar, until he awoke at home, wherein he had blood on his arms, shirt and pant leg. Twiss was arrested by the BIA when they arrived at his home and he was washing his hands. Twiss' left side vehicle headlamp was broken. On 07/06/1976, Twiss pled guilty to Involuntary Manslaughter. On 09/03/1976, Twiss was sentenced to three years custody of the Attorney General. The case was heard by Judge Andrew Bogue in Rapid City.

10.27.1975
Michelle Tobacco
AIM supporter killed at Pine Ridge by "unknown persons."
No investigation

Child abuse by mother...Michelle Linda Tobacco, age 9 months, died on 10/27/1975. SA Hughes observed victim and took photographs of crime scene. Velvedere Tobacco, mother of victim Michelle, advised that she drank 16 beers, tripped, and fell with her baby. When Tobacco awoke, Michelle was dead. Autopsy revealed victim died on 10/27/1975 of acute pneumonitis and hemorrhage to her adrenal gland. On 01/20/1976, AUSA, Rapid City, declined prosecution.

11.16.1974
Delphine Crow Dog
sister of AIM spiritual leader Leonard Crow Dog. Beaten by BIA police and left lying in a field. Died from "exposure."
No investigation

Delphine (Crow Dog) Eagle Deer died 12/06/72. The cause of death listed on her death certificate was exposure and sub-zero weather. Other significant conditions included acute alcoholism. More specifically, the death certificate indicated that the injury occurred as the result of "accidental freezing to death," in an open field approximately 2.3 miles southwest of St. Francis, South Dakota, within the exterior boundaries of the Rosebud Reservation. An autopsy was conducted and the findings of the autopsy determined the above listed causes of death.

11.20.1974
Elaine Wagner
AIM supporter killed at Pine Ridge by "person or persons unknown."
No investigation

Summary: On 11/30/1974 the body of Elaine Wagner was found in a creek bottom in Pine Ridge, South Dakota. Wagner's body was nude from the chest down and had thorn-type scratches from the chest down. Wagner's clothing was several feet from the body. Autopsy showed Wagner died of exposure. Interviews revealed that at about 4:00 p.m. 11/29/1974 Wagner joined two car loads of persons. Investigation showed Wagner drinking with several individuals on the evening of 11/29/1974. After drinking for several hours Wagner went to the home of Joe Bear Nose. At approximately 10:00 p.m. on 11/29/1974 Wagner left the Bear Nose house. The body was found on the afternoon of 11/30/1974 approximately 100 yards from the Bear Nose house.

Disposition: On 09/03/1975 this matter was presented to the federal grand jury in Rapid City, South Dakota. At the conclusion of the presentation no subject had been developed and all available leads had been exhausted. From all the evidence, this matter appeared to be a non-felonious death, and the U.S. Attorney's Office requested no further investigation.

11.20.1973
Allison Fast Horse
AIM supporter shot to death near Pine Ridge by "unknown assailants."
No investigation

Victim, an Indian male, born 3/26/58, Pine Ridge, SD, was found shot to death on Chadron Road approximately one mile south of Oglala, SD on the morning of 11/23/73. He had been shot in the chest with a .22 caliber bullet.

An autopsy listed as excessive bleeding caused when the bullet severed the victim's aorta. Examination of physical evidence failed to provide any indication as to the identity of any possible subjects that could have killed Little Spotted Horse.

Extensive interviews were conducted of all individuals who could be identified as coming into contact with the victim as well as other individuals in the area. No information could be provided leading to the identity of the subject. All leads were exhausted and no logical investigation remained, therefore the Minneapolis FBI closed its investigation in February of 1977.

12.6.1975
Carl Plenty Arrows Sr.
AIM supporter killed at Pine Ridge by "unknown persons."
No investigation
12.6.1975
Frank LaPointe
AIM supporter killed at Pine Ridge by GOONs
No investigation

Summary: At 6:30 p.m., 12/05/1975, Glen Thomas Janis (09/20/1936) shot Carl Plenty Arrows, Sr., and Frank Claude LaPointe at Pine Ridge, South Dakota. Carl Plenty Arrows, Sr., was pronounced dead at the scene. Frank LaPointe subsequently died at the Gordon Hospital, Gordon, Nebraska, on 12/05/1975. Janis voluntarily turned himself in to Pine Ridge authorities on 12/05/1975. During interview with FBI Agents on 12/06/1975, Janis admitted shooting Carl Plenty Arrows, Sr. Janis identified through witnesses as having shot both victims.

Disposition: On 03/29/1976 Glen Janis pled guilty to second degree murder and voluntary manslaughter (Title 18, USC, Sections 1153, 1111, and 1112). On 06/15/1976 Janis was sentenced to 20 years on count II and 10 years on count I, sentence to run concurrently.

12.25.1975
Floyd S. Binais
AIM supporter killed at Pine Ridge by GOONs
No investigation
12.28.1974
Yvette Loraine Lone Hill
AIM supporter killed at Kyle by "unknown party or parties."
No investigation

Child abuse - where does AIM get these 16 month and seven year old "supporters"? Summary: On 12/25/1974 Floyd Sherman Bianas (16 months old) was killed at the residence of Marion High Bull. High Bull stated he fell with Bianas. No one else was present. The body of Yvette Lorraine Lone Hill (age 7) was discovered on 12/28/1974. Lone Hill had scars and bruises all over her body and had obviously been beaten. John Little Bear (age 7) advised he observed Marion High Bull hit Yvette Lone Hill. On 12/30/1974 Marion High Bull was arrested by FBI Agents.

Disposition: Marion Allen High Bull was tried by a jury and on 10/08/1975 High Bull was found guilty of one count of voluntary manslaughter (Title 18, USC, Section 1112) and one count of second degree murder (Title 18, USC, Section 1111). On the same date he was sentenced to 10 years count 1 and 20 years count 2, sentences to run concurrent.


Your "list" looks to be every alcoholic, child-abuse, hit-and-run, suicide, negligent discharge, or fistfight - most of which were investigated and adjudicated. Did you research any of the cases before you cut and pasted the AIM "casualty list"?

Zundfolge
July 7, 2005, 03:51 PM
:eek: richyoung, thats one if the single greatest rebuttals I've ever seen in many years of foruming ... kudos!

I hope you didn't get carpal tunnel from all the typing :uhoh:

richyoung
July 7, 2005, 04:08 PM
Ever heard of self-defense?

...NOT in association with contact gunshot wounds on two already-injured law enforcement officers, no....

richyoung
July 7, 2005, 04:09 PM
I hope you didn't get carpal tunnel from all the typing

No worries, Z, most of it was cut and paste from FBI and other reports - Google is a wonderful thing...

rock jock
July 7, 2005, 04:10 PM
Redford is a known socialist and selective truth-teller and Ward Churchill is a traitor. Got any other "gems" to share with us?

The last thing Redford is is a left-wing liar.
BTW, this was funny. Your argument might have had a little more credibility if you had prefaced it with "EVEN THOUGH Redford is is a left-wing liar,....."

OF
July 7, 2005, 04:16 PM
Now now, enough of the bigoted right-wing reactionism! So predictable... ;)

walking arsenal
July 7, 2005, 04:25 PM
Ogladee Oglala life goes on..........

JohnBT
July 7, 2005, 08:05 PM
"So all y'all are saying he shot at them and missed?"

Ever heard of self-defense?
________________________________

There's a pure and simple silly question.

I asked if he missed. Yes, no, maybe?

John

yucaipa
July 7, 2005, 09:04 PM
Leonard Pelter murdered two Federal agents in cold blood. When caught instead of "standing up" for his principals and what he though as right (as screwed up and ass back wards as they were) he like most criminals turned into a lying coward pointing the finger at someone else.

Pelter is guilty,and all the bozo's running around the Internet with tinfoil feathers in their hair selling books/ conspiracy theories/half-truths and lies isn't going to change the facts.

Nightwatch,what you should do with that book, is ask for your money back.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/yucaipa/stwhlflg.gif

Special Agents.

Jack R. Coler

&

Ronald A. Williams


RIP Hero's

Coronach
July 7, 2005, 09:53 PM
Yeouch.

I love the internet.

Mike :D

S_O_Laban
July 8, 2005, 01:54 AM
I was suprised Clinton didn't pardon him (Pelter).... I guess he didn't donate anything to the library....

scubie02
July 8, 2005, 09:28 AM
yeah, its pretty heroic to terrorize those who have different ethnic backgrounds or political beliefs than you.

roo_ster
July 8, 2005, 10:18 AM
Holy Flying Rebuttals, Batman!

"Like a chihuahua tearing into a pack of hot dogs, richyoung tears into the assertion of '60 killed by death squads' made by (persons not named to spare them embarassment)."

richyoung:
Don't expect mere fact to be persuasive in the face of tinfoil hattery and lefty multi-cultist dogma.

Ezekiel
July 8, 2005, 01:10 PM
...NOT in association with contact gunshot wounds on two already-injured law enforcement officers, no....

Of course, was Peltier a member of the US military and the so-called (I prefer jack-booted thugs, in this case) "law enforcement officers" a cowering Arab in a mosque, this would be fine, right? I mean, that's our mantra around here...

Special Agents.

Jack R. Coler

&

Ronald A. Williams


RIP Hero's

Ahem, "hardly". :banghead:

Everybody is getting all riled up about the SCOTUS decision allowing Wal-Mart to grab personal property but ongoing -- and perpetual -- use of Manifest Desiny seems to slip by the masses.

Peltier erred in not saying, "I shot them, and here's why", at his trial: which was a travesty and sham to begin with. If those agents, in support of a government agency directly charged with undermining the safety, sovereignty, peace, and welfare of American Indians, came armed to my area of allotted residence, with the ongoing intent shown, I'd shoot them myself. :fire:

I openly and respectfully appreciate other perspectives!

Ezekiel
July 8, 2005, 01:11 PM
"Like a chihuahua tearing into a pack of hot dogs, richyoung tears into the assertion of '60 killed by death squads' made by (persons not named to spare them embarassment)."

Yeah, I freely admit the "death squad" thing is propoganda: but our government surely did their share of evil...

richyoung
July 8, 2005, 02:03 PM
Of course, was Peltier a member of the US military and the so-called (I prefer jack-booted thugs, in this case) "law enforcement officers" a cowering Arab in a mosque, this would be fine, right? I mean, that's our mantra around here...

Apples and oranges - Cole and Williams were sworn Federal agents, not non-governmental terorists with a known history of booby-trapping their dead and suicide bombing their injured. Pop quiz: how many wounded FBI agents have ever detonated?

Quote:
Special Agents.

Jack R. Coler

&

Ronald A. Williams


RIP Hero's



Ahem, "hardly".

Everybody is getting all riled up about the SCOTUS decision allowing Wal-Mart to grab personal property but ongoing -- and perpetual -- use of Manifest Desiny seems to slip by the masses.

No, it doesn't "slip by" the masses - the masses are smart enough to realize that however bad we treated the indiginous people here, (which is what ALWAYS happens - read your history....), there are still Indians and Eskimos today...their fate at the hands of a Third Reich or Imperial Japanese occupation, had there not been fully "Manifest Destinied" U.S. to oppose them, would have been extinction, as was planned for the Jews, gays, Gypsies, Armenians, Slavs.... Nor do the "masses" miss the conection with AIM actions and statements to other leftist wackiness off the times, such as the Weathermen, SDS, Symbionese Liberation Army, Black Panthers, etc. You criticise government squashing of the AIM movement - ask anyone in Peru how much fun it is with "Sendero Luminoso" running around, and if the government should have suppressed it early on.



Peltier erred in not saying, "I shot them, and here's why", at his trial: which was a travesty and sham to begin with. If those agents, in support of a government agency directly charged with undermining the safety, sovereignty, peace, and welfare of American Indians,

...the agents were attempting to serve an arrest warrent on a Native American named Jimmy Eagle. They were trying to do their jobs - like that list above, complaining "no investigation" - well, they were investigating - they had a vehicle and a suspect that seemed to match Eagle's description. The agents came in seperate government cars, with their rifles and shotguns secured in the trunks. Only their service revolvers were available for immediate use, despite KNOWING that a hostile AIM encampment was nearby. (BTW, even Indians were opposed to AIM and their tactics - the "GOON" squads refered to are the "Guardians Of the Ogola Nation", a Native American group OPPOSED to AIM). When they attemped to follow the suspect vehicle onto the Jumping Bull property, Agent Williams radioed that they were being shot at by the occupants of the suspect vehicle, and ffrom other positions as well.Subsequent crime scene investigation and autopsy results determined that the agents only returned limited fire and were injured as follows:
Agent Coler may have fired from his service revolver, but his bullet pouch (a small leather carrier worn on the belt) still contained its six original rounds, one shot from a 12-gauge shotgun and one shot from a .308 rifle. He received an initial wound nearly severing his right arm, a wound to the top of his head, and a second to his jaw, both delivered at contact range with a high-powered rifle.
Agent Williams while calling for help on his radio, may have fired briefly from his service revolver and was wounded initially in his left arm, left side, and foot. A fatal shot fired at contact range went through his right hand and into his face.
Their vehicles received a total of 125 bullet holes, not counting those that either missed or went through the shattered windows and were not recovered.

came armed to my area of allotted residence, with the ongoing intent shown, I'd shoot them myself.

I openly and respectfully appreciate other perspectives!

I respectfully submit that you have only been exposed to one side of the story, and that Williams and Cole died in the performance of their sworn duty, regardless of whatever tension existed between AIM and the FBI, or AIM and other Indians. Look at the so-called "list" of victims verses the actual dispositon of the cases - decide which side has credibility. This wasn't a Ruby Ridge or Waco - this was the cold-blooded execution of wounded men by psychopathic scum trying to use the legitimate issues of the Native Americans as justification for their own wanton blood-lust.

middy
July 8, 2005, 02:11 PM
Of course, was Peltier a member of the US military and the so-called (I prefer jack-booted thugs, in this case) "law enforcement officers" a cowering Arab in a mosque, this would be fine, right?
:mad: :fire: :cuss: :banghead:

Must... prevent... fingers from... getting me banned...

Ezekiel
July 8, 2005, 02:29 PM
Must... prevent... fingers from... getting me banned...

Send me a PM, I won't take offense. I just find our nation's stance -- on a great many things -- to be both self-righteous and hypocritical. Um, "ineffective" would seem to be a natural, too.

I respectfully submit that you have only been exposed to one side of the story, and that Williams and Cole died in the performance of their sworn duty, regardless of whatever tension existed between AIM and the FBI, or AIM and other Indians.

And if their sworn duty was tyrannical?

That is my "feel" for the issue, but you make some excellent points regarding the incident. "Thanks for your input."

JohnBT
July 8, 2005, 02:45 PM
"And if their sworn duty was tyrannical?"

Don't like the arrest warrant? Take it up with the judge who signed it, don't bushwhack and execute the messengers.

It still looks like coldblooded murder to me. It wasn't enough to shoot them multiple times and prevent them from serving the warrant, no, they had to walk up and finish them off. Nothing but a bunch of worthless bloodthirsty cowards acting just like your typical mob.

John

scubie02
July 8, 2005, 03:10 PM
well, i don't guess from the discussion there are alot of indians taking part. You have to remember, of the hundreds of treaties signed by the american government with the indians, not one was honored. Given that sort of track record, if agents of that government were coming to arrest one of your own, would you have large amounts of confidence in "settling it in court"?

Ezekiel
July 8, 2005, 03:36 PM
well, i don't guess from the discussion there are alot of indians taking part. You have to remember, of the hundreds of treaties signed by the american government with the indians, not one was honored. Given that sort of track record, if agents of that government were coming to arrest one of your own, would you have large amounts of confidence in "settling it in court"?

There's at least one Indian here -- me -- asking exactly those sorts of questions...

Ezekiel
July 8, 2005, 04:41 PM
worthless bloodthirsty cowards acting just like your typical mob

Unfortunately, this is exactly my perception of the FBI -- and their actions regarding American Indians -- during the mid 1970s. :fire:

I can certainly respect a judgment indicating that the actions of Peltier and his ilk were morally "not good". But to indicate that they were not warranted based upon the situation at hand seems hypocritical: that's our justification for razing Baghdad, right? That "military action" is warranted in times of significant human rights violations? Or, before requisite harm is caused by the use of arms [WMD's] to violate our way of life?

Bah!

Preacherman
July 8, 2005, 07:35 PM
I'm closing this thread now to prevent further deterioration.

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