Editor's View: How many more will die before guns are controlled?


PDA






nico
June 20, 2005, 09:44 PM
http://www.hometownannapolis.com/vault/cgi-bin/bowie/view/2005B/06/16-09.HTM

Editor's View: How many more will die before guns are controlled?

by John Rouse
A 17-year-old Bowie girl is dead - shot to death by an assailant for some as yet unkown reason in a well-tended, tranquil park only steps away from the Free State and Marketplace malls.

Yet another of the millions of guns that scar this country like a pox has claimed a life that had barely begun. A child, for heaven's sake, shot to death in our midst. It's the 71st murder in Jack Johnson's Prince George's County since January.

This country's love affair with guns is sick, sick, sick.

I recall that a few years ago a group of gun afficonados (someone less restrained than myself might call them nuts) gathered near Pointer Ridge to shoot off a slew of weapons that included just about everything but a cannon. For all I know, they may even have had one of those, too, but hadn't unloaded it from the truck before they were told to depart the area by police. Their spent cartridges landed in neighboring residential areas, understandably scaring the hell out of the people who lived there. Shades of Baghdad.

I still remember this incident these many moons later because I was absolutely dumbfounded by the audacity of these characters. It was beyond my comprehension how anyone could be so downright oblivious to the safety of others. Such a shootout may not have happened in here since then, but it's a regular occurrence elsewhere. And let's be honest, it seems to be a near-daily feature on the streets of other areas of Prince George's County in 2005. Oh, wait a minute, I forgot that shots were fired during a recent armed holdup at the Route 197 McDonald's, and many handguns have been brandished around town pretty regularly.

The legal powers in Pee Gee County took action against those gun "hobbyists" years ago. Today, regrettably, they can rarely find the shoot-em-up idiots that are turning the county into a latter-day Dodge City. It's beyond my comprehension why the gun fanciers find it so enjoyable to go out and fire away with automatic weapons and assault rifles. I can understand, barely, that firing a pistol at a target in a shooting range might be of some interest, though a bow and arrow would be more of a challenge. What will be next, "hobbyists" tossing hand grenades?

I fired such weapons when I was in the military, and I didn't get any big charge - oops, a pun - from doing so. Fortunately, I never had to use my assault rifle to shoot another human being, despite the best efforts of my weapons officer to taunt me into using him for target practice. We were taught way back then in the musket era to kill people; that's what such weapons are made for. Trekking off to the woods to blast away at squirrels doesn't require an AK-47 or an Uzi. There is no justification for anyone other than the military - or law enforcement agencies in extraordinary situations - having these killing machines. Nor is there any reason for Joe Average to wander around carrying a pistol.

The National Rifle Association often launches pro-gun mailing efforts aimed at the media. Over the years, I've had my share of little yellow postcards, and now e-mails, trumpeting pro-gun messages. It wouldn't surprise me to one day receive a stream of such missives calling for private ownership of anti-aircraft guns. The NRA has a lot of political clout - something anti-gun lobbying groups, sadly, don't have. Our elected representatives quiver in abject fear when the NRA shakes its can of quarters and tells the gutless members of Congress to ignore the overwhelming majority of the American public that wants truly effective gun control, not Band-Aids. Let everyone in the country buy a machine gun with which to go a-huntin' in their neighborhood wooded areas. There are Bowie folks who write letters to this newspaper who would just love that, too.

The right-wing Republicans (and a handful of moderates) who now rule us in all branches of the federal government would like nothing better than to do away with the virtually ineffective gun controls now in place. Fire one for Tom DeLay and Bill Frist (a doctor, for heaven's sake). You can almost imagine many of these people bellowing, "C'mon, fellow Americans, what's wrong with assault weapons?" They're just dandy for hunting geese, if you like your bird in powder form, that is. I can't escape the nightmarish thought that one of these days Americans, or at least those wide-eyed types obsessed with guns, will be strapping six-shooters to their hips as they venture to the Giant to buy hot dogs. The weapon would be handy to keep fellow Bowieites from trying to steal your parking spot. Just shoot out their tires. Folks could step outside of local watering holes and settle an argument at 20 paces with a Colt. Republicans could shoot Democrats. The dementedly self-righteous might arm themselves with a Bible and a gun to deal with the heathens amongst us. Nah, crazy ideas, right?

There is nothing more likely to attract fiery retorts than an anti-gun column. The bullet brigade, nostrels surely flaring, will dispatch e-mails that could scorch a charcoal grill in full flame. Their right to bear arms, including, it seems, guns, rockets, tanks and maybe even missiles is guaranteed by the Constitution. Or so they like to claim. Wimps like me who disagree with them are pinko subservives and should be sent to Cuba to contemplate Fidel's beard and recite passages from the Communist Manifesto. I'm not kidding! Some of those people really think that way. It boggles the mind.

Well, I don't like seeing children shot to death. I don't like seeing anyone shot to death. Do our gun-loving friends consider this an acceptable price to pay for their racks of rifles? I lived for several years in a country - Great Britain - that bans virtually all weapons other than hunting rifles, and these are very, very tightly controlled. Even the police rarely carry handguns. I still marvel at how safe it is there. Sure, there are killings, but not on the scale we see in this country. If there's no gun handy, people think twice about offing someone. No other western nation sees as many of its citizens shot to death, outside of war, than does our own United States. Some of our cities, and even our own Prince George's County, are like war zones, thanks to the proliferation of guns. Yep, folks are using their guns to hunt, all right - each other.

When are the pols going to start listening to a large chunk of their constituents - the parents of dead children, the families of innocent people shot in the street or in their homes - and do something meaningful about gun control? How many more 17-year-olds have to die before Congress tells the NRA to go to blazes and passes effective gun control laws? Probably not in my lifetime. And the murders go on and on and on.

What a crying shame!

jrouse@bladenews.com

Is it even possible to pick apart all his lies in one letter?

If you enjoyed reading about "Editor's View: How many more will die before guns are controlled?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Solo
June 20, 2005, 09:47 PM
Why bother? Its a waste of time to fight it out iwth small fry, IMHO.

R.H. Lee
June 20, 2005, 09:58 PM
Many, many more. And more than that, even, if you keep trying to take them.

Standing Wolf
June 20, 2005, 10:23 PM
Yet another of the millions of guns that scar this country like a pox has claimed a life that had barely begun.

Yep. Those mean nasty terrible awful wicked evil guns just killed another innocent victim—unless, of course, the actual killer was yet another criminal who's been paroled and put on probation time after time.

Bets, anyone?

bigun15
June 20, 2005, 10:29 PM
I wonder how the author would explain the fact that in Maine, for example, you may carry a weapon without a permit, and that particular state has one of the lowest crime rates in the country. At the same time, in Washington D.C. it is illegal to own a weapon and it has one of (excuse me, THE) highest rate of murder in the country.

Where's the author? I'd like to ask him that question.

mics357
June 20, 2005, 10:55 PM
well just got done firing off an email to this yahoo, do I think it will do any good nah but I figure you got to respond to this stuff. :banghead:

Zrex
June 20, 2005, 11:04 PM
but guys --- its for the children!

P95Carry
June 20, 2005, 11:11 PM
Their spent cartridges landed in neighboring residential areas WOT!!??? Come on now! If indeed he meant spent bullets then the guys shooting were doing gun owners no favors - would have to be fair on that point.

But oh my - the classic anti's rhetoric makes up most of the snivelling content. He forgets as do most - the guns are in bad guy's hands when things go wrong - if he can find a way to specifically target those then he might be achieving something.

Until such time - he'd better remember that he is citing minority instances and totally forgetting about the monster majority of sane responsible folks - who both have a constitutional right to have their guns and who have their right to an ability to self defence - not that he'd think that counted for anything.

Oh well - gut emotions once more rule the day and logic takes another step backward. :(

Alex45ACP
June 20, 2005, 11:26 PM
I just sent him an email that was short and to the point :fire:

shermacman
June 20, 2005, 11:30 PM
jrouse@bladenews.com

Dear Mr. Rouse:

Regarding your article: How many more will die before guns are controlled?

There is probably little point in persuading you to read the original writings of our Constitution, Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence. Even less, I suspect, of the history of arms, wars, governments and democracy. Your ignorance is worn like a badge you seem to be proud of.

Nightfall
June 20, 2005, 11:31 PM
This country's love affair with guns is sick, sick, sick.Your love affair with controlling your neighbor is sick, sick, sick.I recall that a few years ago a group of gun afficonados (someone less restrained than myself might call them nuts) gathered near Pointer Ridge to shoot off a slew of weapons... they were told to depart the area by police. Their spent cartridges landed in neighboring residential areas, understandably scaring the hell out of the people who lived there.Okay, dunno if he's talking about empty cases, or bullets (didn't the Army teach you the difference between a "spent cartridge" and a bullet?). If they were putting rounds into a residential area, I doubt the police would have simply told them to leave.
It's beyond my comprehension why the gun fanciers find it so enjoyable to go out and fire away with automatic weapons and assault rifles.Different strokes for different folks. It's called freedom.
There is no justification for anyone other than the military - or law enforcement agencies in extraordinary situations - having these killing machines. Nor is there any reason for Joe Average to wander around carrying a pistol.You're crying to us about all the violence in the US, then you're crying there is no reason for anybody to have defensive tools. :rolleyes: I can't escape the nightmarish thought that one of these days Americans, or at least those wide-eyed types obsessed with guns, will be strapping six-shooters to their hips as they venture to the Giant to buy hot dogs... Republicans could shoot Democrats. The dementedly self-righteous might arm themselves with a Bible and a gun to deal with the heathens amongst us. Nah, crazy ideas, right?Yes, they are crazy ideas. They are completely unfounded in reality, and demonstrate an irrational opinion of Republicans and Christians. Furthermore, I guess you haven't been paying attention to the CCW trend across the nation for the last few years. Your crazy fears have been repeatedly spouted by like minded fools, and repeatedly discredited by the reality of responsible carry, as all the states with conceal carry have discovered.I lived for several years in a country - Great Britain - that bans virtually all weapons other than hunting rifles, and these are very, very tightly controlled. Even the police rarely carry handguns. I still marvel at how safe it is there.So why the hell did you come back?

What a load of BS.

boofus
June 20, 2005, 11:58 PM
Molon labe.

But I doubt he has the stones to try it. Like all other Marxist tyrants he would rather delegate the actual fighting and pillaging to rank and file wage slaves, while comfortably sitting in his living room sipping wine.

Standing Wolf
June 21, 2005, 12:06 AM
Your ignorance is worn like a badge you seem to be proud of.

Well said, shermacman!

stevelyn
June 21, 2005, 12:09 AM
Wimps like me who disagree with them are pinko subversives and should be sent to Cuba to contemplate Fidel's beard and recite passages from the Communist Manifesto.

Well, at least he got one thing right. :D Okay, Okay maybe not sent to Cuba, but perhaps encouraged to go. :neener: :evil:

gbelleh
June 21, 2005, 12:13 AM
How many clichés can one person pack into an article??

KriegHund
June 21, 2005, 12:13 AM
Not wortha reply, really.

Pretty pathetic- every trick in the book.

What a tool.....

boofus
June 21, 2005, 12:13 AM
He should be sent to Cuba. To the nice vacation resort built on federal property where every tourist gets a koran, froot loops for breakfast, and complimentary lap dances, rap music, and free panties.

It should be his socialist version of utopia. No firearms except in the hands of government, free health care, free housing, free food, and he can play naked twister with other men and not be called names for it.

ReadyontheRight
June 21, 2005, 12:16 AM
What a Maroon!

A maroon not even worth the fine arguments for RKBA espoused here on THR.

Berek
June 21, 2005, 12:46 AM
Their spent cartridges landed in neighboring residential areas

Someone should probably check the tension on that ejection spring. You'll put an eye out at 1000 yards... :D

Berek

BioDemon
June 21, 2005, 01:01 AM
I'd hate to see what this guy has to say about cars and trucks that hold auto accidents at first place for cause of death in America. This guy is sick sick sick.
Perhaps he wants to ban guns so only real criminals will own, carry and deal them on our streets while doing and dealing drugs. We have a right to protect our selves from these criminals he gives examples of. There are crazies out there .

DonNikmare
June 21, 2005, 01:11 AM
How many more children will die before abortion is controlled Mr. Rouse?

campergeek
June 21, 2005, 01:24 AM
Ignorant, irrational bedwetter.

Why bother replying? To do so seems to be somewhere in the realm of teaching pigs to sing.


(For those who don't know - it only frustrates you and annoys the pig)

Sergeant Sabre
June 21, 2005, 01:35 AM
How many more children will die before abortion is controlled Mr. Rouse?

Don't you know that the "right" to an abortion was written into the Constitution by the founding fathers? Where have you been? :rolleyes:

But firearms? There's definatly no mention of owning them in the Constitution. Not like the language specifically, explicitly, and plainly spelling out the "right" to abortion.

Solo
June 21, 2005, 01:57 AM
Their spent cartridges landed in neighboring residential areas
Must be Minis....

Blue Jays
June 21, 2005, 02:32 AM
Hi All-
"...The bullet brigade, nostrels surely flaring, will dispatch e-mails that could scorch a charcoal grill in full flame..."Why bother trying to have an intelligent conversation about FACTS with someone who won't even bother to check their spelling on simple words like "nostrils" in their stories?

~ Blue Jays ~

onrhander
June 21, 2005, 03:44 AM
:barf: This clown has two anuses,one at each end of his digestive system. :what: That is the only way he could spew so much BS. :cuss: I wonder when he lived in England? :barf: Certnaly in the last6-7 years,murder,in house assalts and shotings have gone thru the roof. :banghead: The cops now wish they ALL CARIED GUNS,but most still can't. :fire:

twency
June 21, 2005, 04:00 AM
Actually, this reads more like a parody of anti-gun rhetoric than anything else. Are we sure this guy (or gal) is for real?

Wimps like me who disagree with them are pinko subservives and should be sent to Cuba to contemplate Fidel's beard and recite passages from the Communist Manifesto.As noted above, maybe sent isn't quite the right word. But if the writer is sincere, encouraged wouldn't be a bad idea. Then he could find out what a nation subservient to the government is really like.

-twency

thorn726
June 21, 2005, 04:39 AM
Republicans could shoot Democrats.

uh isnt that a reason not to have gun control?
anyway that was an incredibly frustrating read.

makes me want to scream, for so many reasons.

he didnt make a single accurate point-
sure, no one needs an AK to hunt with- that isnt what it is for!
doest mean it is not good to have on hand

dasmi
June 21, 2005, 04:51 AM
How many more people will die before criminals are controlled?

SalukiFan
June 21, 2005, 07:17 AM
I can understand, barely, that firing a pistol at a target in a shooting range might be of some interest, though a bow and arrow would be more of a challenge. What will be next, "hobbyists" tossing hand grenades?
Ooh, ooh! Is there a hand grenade range open now?

Where is it? How much is a membership?

:evil:

misANTHrope
June 21, 2005, 07:32 AM
I can understand, barely, that firing a pistol at a target in a shooting range might be of some interest, though a bow and arrow would be more of a challenge.

You know, I wish I could become as proficient, as quickly, with a handgun as I did with a bow. It took me maybe three weeks of daily shooting to get consistent tight groups with the bow; but after about three months of really getting serious about handgun practice, I still can't match my bow groups.

Either this guy is completely lying about being prior military, or he was some kind of REMF who fired his weapon about three times for quals and nothing else. Because he clearly knows nothing at all about shooting or marksmanship, or the challenges presented. I could just as effectively write a detailed critique of the sport of croquet.

LiquidTension
June 21, 2005, 08:10 AM
Wow, it's so nice to see an original viewpoint from an intelligent person who's obviously done a lot of research :rolleyes: I can't even make myself get excited over these idiots anymore.

Langenator
June 21, 2005, 08:43 AM
Editor's View: How many more will die before guns are controlled?

How many have died-and are still dieing-because guns are being controlled?

Darfur. Ethiopia. Zimbabwe. Congo. Rwanda. Cambodia. China. USSR. Armenia. Hitler's Germany.

Nevermind how well gun control has worked out in England and Australia.

Falcontech
June 21, 2005, 09:00 AM
It's a crying shame that meatheads like this are the ones who have the ear of the public and as such can make it seem like their opinions are shared by most of society while people like yourselves who actually have a grasp on reality are being made out to be in the minority. If sharing the opinions of you folks at this site makes me a gun nut then a gun nut I am.

Matthew748
June 21, 2005, 09:44 AM
One minute these people (author of the article) whine about how our country is turning into a republican controlled police state, and the next minute they proudly proclaim that the government should institute absolute control over firearms. I have never understood this about liberals. I don't think they know whether they are coming or going.

foghornl
June 21, 2005, 10:13 AM
Ask this [ahem] reporter:

"How many more lies will be told before the press is controlled?"


That should be good for several tizzies from them.

Bruce H
June 21, 2005, 10:18 AM
How many more will die before guns are controlled?

This would be the perfect place to look this person in the eye and say " at least one". Watch the color of his shorts change.

RavenVT100
June 21, 2005, 10:29 AM
Yet another person who talks about how we have inadequate "gun controls" but is unfamiliar with the Federal Firearms Act and the Gun Control Act.

dhoomonyou
June 21, 2005, 10:43 AM
We must ban:

Double bacon cheeseburgers.
Cars
Knives, pointy ones.
Sharp sticks
Ice cream
Zippo Lighters

My short list makes as much sense as his RAMBLING.

hso
June 21, 2005, 10:54 AM
Anybody else get the irony that he's in Bowie MD and wrote this for publication in the "Bowie Blade"? :banghead:

Nightfall
June 21, 2005, 02:01 PM
"How many more lies will be told before the press is controlled?"But, but some bad reporting never killed anybody! Uh, except for the Newsweek/Koran incident... :uhoh:

Cellar Dweller
June 21, 2005, 03:15 PM
The right-wing Republicans (and a handful of moderates) who now rule us in all branches of the federal government would like nothing better than to do away with the virtually ineffective gun controls now in place.
and
Our elected representatives quiver in abject fear when the NRA shakes its can of quarters and tells the gutless members of Congress to ignore the overwhelming majority of the American public that wants truly effective gun control

If the NRA doesn't want gun control and the right-wing Republicans don't want gun control, why is there still gun control? The gun nuts "own" the NRA and the NRA "owns" the politicians according to Mr. Rouse, but I STILL can't buy a fully-operational tank.

Waitone
June 21, 2005, 03:57 PM
Just the latest idiot with unrestricted access to media. Used to be idiocy was a private matter not to be discussed in public. Now days it is proudly displayed for all to see and marvel. :scrutiny:

taliv
June 21, 2005, 04:31 PM
We must ban:

Double bacon cheeseburgers.


:eek: :eek: :eek:

K-Romulus
June 21, 2005, 04:55 PM
"I recall that a few years ago a group of gun afficonados (someone less restrained than myself might call them nuts) gathered near Pointer Ridge to shoot off a slew of weapons that included just about everything but a cannon."

I've never heard of this. But then again, I've only been in MD for two years now . . .

El Tejon
June 21, 2005, 05:04 PM
"Republicans could shoot Democrats."

Just a reminder, good sir: The Second Amendment is for fighting, not for recreation.

My family used our guns from 1861 to 1865 to do exactly that, shoot Democrats. Today my family stands ready against all enemies of our freedom, whatever they call themselves. :)

Norton
June 21, 2005, 05:15 PM
[/QUOTE]"I recall that a few years ago a group of gun afficonados (someone less restrained than myself might call them nuts) gathered near Pointer Ridge to shoot off a slew of weapons that included just about everything but a cannon."

I've never heard of this. But then again, I've only been in MD for two years now . .[QUOTE]

Being Prince George's County......I doubt that these were just a few lawful citizens getting together for a friendly range shoot. :rolleyes:

Norton
June 21, 2005, 05:17 PM
My reply to this dip wad......


Mr. Rouse,

Congratulations to you for your recent editorial dealing with gun control. In one of the most carefully constructed and concise articles that I've read recently, you've managed to cover nearly every lie, misrepresentation and fallacy from the anti-gun lobby's play book.

Your article is based on the typical hysterical rants that accompany nearly all discourses on what you and your ilk term "reasonable gun control". Cries of "it's for the children", "blood in the streets" and "protect our police officers" ring hollow to those law abiding citizens who use firearms for sport, recreation and self-protection when it becomes apparent that statists such as yourself will settle for nothing less than total disarmament of the citizenry of this country. That, sir, is wholly unreasonable.

Have you considered that the criminal activity endemic to Prince George's County is part and parcel of individuals who choose to commit those acts? They would be criminals regardless of the tools with which they choose to implement those crimes. By denying me and my family our constitutionally protected right to self-defense, you are yourself an accomplice to those criminals. The United States Supreme Court has ruled that police departments and their governing bodies have no legal responsibility to protect us. If this is indeed the case, then by what means are the law abiding citizens of this country expected to defend themselves?

Your naivete and lack of understanding of gun owners is further illustrated by trying to define gun owners as right wing Republicans and card-carrying members of the NRA. Nothing could be further from the truth, though it does provide a simplistic solution to your single dimensional view of this debate. The truth is that gun owners in this country run the gamut of political, cultural and racial description and can not be pigeon-holed for the benefit of advancing your agenda.

Rather than focusing your attention on the miniscule percentage of those who choose to commit crimes with firearms, I would encourage you to instead take a look at the 80 million citizens in this country in possession of approximately 250 million firearms who already own and use their firearms in a responsible manner.

Sincerely,

"Norton"

Mr. X
June 21, 2005, 06:09 PM
Ban the Evil Gunloving Republicans NOW! - for the children.

:rolleyes: YAWN.

R.H. Lee
June 21, 2005, 06:13 PM
Excellent letter, Norton. You've got more patience than I do. :)

shermacman
June 21, 2005, 07:20 PM
Q "Why are Republicans so opposed to gun control?"

A "In case we have to shoot Democrats. It happened during the Civil War, and it could happen again."


- PJ O'Rourke

Norton
June 21, 2005, 09:14 PM
RileyMc,

Patience is a way of life when dealing with gun banners here in MD....simply because there are so many of them.

ralphie98
June 22, 2005, 12:27 AM
Wow... so much crap spewed... this guy is basically a media troll. Would probably be best if we all ignored him as we would a troll on this website.

Their spent cartridges landed in neighboring residential areas, understandably scaring the hell out of the people who lived there.
My Makarov spits it's empties pretty far, but not far enough to land in another residential area! :eek:

What will be next, "hobbyists" tossing hand grenades? Pretty please!

Trekking off to the woods to blast away at squirrels doesn't require an AK-47 or an Uzi But it sure makes it a lot more fun eh? I wonder what the antis would pick on if the ak-47 and Uzi had never been invented.

I can't escape the nightmarish thought that one of these days Americans, or at least those wide-eyed types obsessed with guns, will be strapping six-shooters to their hips as they venture to the Giant to buy hot dogs How about to Wal-Mart to buy some nachos? It happens more than you may know buddy... get over it

Wimps like me who disagree with them are pinko subservives and should be sent to Cuba to contemplate Fidel's beard and recite passages from the Communist Manifesto We agree on something!


Well, I don't like seeing children shot to death. I don't like seeing anyone shot to death and us gun nuts do? This guy just doesn't get it. Like I said, he is just a troll trying to get some gun nuts foaming at the mouth so he has more ammo to use in another article about how gun owners are crazy.

Tom Servo
June 22, 2005, 09:57 AM
I can understand, barely, that firing a pistol at a target in a shooting range might be of some interest, though a bow and arrow would be more of a challenge. What will be next, "hobbyists" tossing hand grenades?
If I want to, yes. If it's not specifically enumerated in the Constitution, then it's an implied right.

Just because the author can't "understand" it, it must be passe and distasteful. This is typical elitist liberal gibberish, which generally translates as, "I find it unpleasant; therefore it must be wrong. Having established that I find it to be wrong, the government must step in and enact legislation to make sure everyone's forced to agree with me." Heap on some hysterical hand-wringing, skip any research, and you've got the liberal modus operandi in a nutshell.

I see the author offering absolutely no research or evidence to support his claims. If I thought a mature, adult conversation with no raised voices were possible with him, perhaps I'd try to engage in debate. From what I've learned however, his response would be, "Psychotic Gun Nut Redneck Erik F. suggests that everyone should be forced to carry around fully-loaded AK-47s," or something to that effect.

We all know the facts. The problem is getting them heard in calm, rational debate. With all the stereotyping, screaming and emotional hysterics on both sides, it's no wonder the average moderate American has no clue what to think on the gun debate. Granted, ours doesn't tend to assume that we're the arbiters of national taste and decency, but c'mon...are guys like Ted Nugent and Charlton Heston REALLY the ones we want representing our side of the debate?

If you enjoyed reading about "Editor's View: How many more will die before guns are controlled?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!