NYC police reportedly confirm ticket quotas


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Vernal45
June 21, 2005, 01:55 AM
NYC police reportedly confirm ticket quotas
Sergeant produces memo, setting out target for summonses
The Associated Press
Updated: 9:23 a.m. ET June 20, 2005

NEW YORK - It's a part of folklore in many cities -- that police have to issue a certain number of tickets.

In New York City, the police department has always denied any such thing as ticket quotas.

However, the New York Post reported Monday that two city police sergeants have testified they were ordered to meet a quota. The testimony came during a closed door grievance hearing.

Sources told the newspaper that one sergeant even produced a memo from a commander spelling out just how many traffic summonses and quality-of-life tickets they needed to give out to avoid getting a poor performance review.

The precinct's commanding officer, Deputy Chief Michael Marino, admitted at the hearing that he wrote the note but said it was only one of several types of criteria that he used to assess his officers, the newspaper said, citing unidentified sources.

The city's Police Benevolent Association has complained that forcing officers to meet a quota forces them to write tickets for ridiculous reasons.

"The evidence presented under oath in this arbitration proves once again what police officers have long lived with: There are established quotas, and if you don't meet them, you will be punished," the PBA's President Patrick Lynch said in a statement.
Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

© 2005 MSNBC.com

URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8288954/

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Mixlesplick
June 21, 2005, 03:57 AM
Locally (West Michigan) I heard one officer say that there are no ticket quotas but if an officer is writing very few tickets he will be told to write more. It's not a quota but they definitely have to write tickets as a part of there job here.

c_yeager
June 21, 2005, 09:39 AM
quality-of-life tickets

Ok what are these?

Tall Man
June 21, 2005, 10:01 AM
quality-of-life tickets
Ok what are these?
They are usually summary offenses issued in response to complaints received about local ordinances not being obeyed.

Some examples:

Unauthorized Burning
When your neighbor decides to burn trash (creating a fantastic stink) that he is otherwise not allowed to burn on his property - just as you cannot burn trash on yours. Usually tied to safety issues.

Disturbing the Peace
Had enough of the wigs and their obnoxious bass speakers shaking your house as they drive through your subdivision? Write down their plate number and call it in.

TM

Molon Labe
June 21, 2005, 10:06 AM
It's wrong to institute a hard lower threshold on the number of tickets that must be issued. However, it's not wrong to evaluate an officer's performance based on statistics. If, for example, the average number of tickets written by an officer is 30 per month, and the number of tickets you write is 5 per month, the chief is justified in questioning your performance.

scubie02
June 21, 2005, 11:29 AM
I used to work in the state senate on a transportation committee, and I was at all the closed door meetings. I can tell you uncategorically that they ARE told to go out and do some speed traps when they want to raise revenue--I was AT meetings where it happened. People who want to believe otherwise are just living in a fantasy world. Ticket revenues are ALOT of money.

Bandit01
June 21, 2005, 11:41 AM
I lived in that god forsaken city--thank god that I now live in the south--North Carolina. Let me tell you some of the tickets that are given:
Last Summer a pregnant woman was issued a ticket for sitting on her stoop (this was reported by all of the local News Stations). An elderly man was given a ticket for loitering. He was tired and was leaning near his building. Crossing against the light;
music to loud (the issue with this is, how do you legally identify what is to loud. If I'm playing my music and a cop walks by my car and he hears it--is that "to loud";
tinted windows;
Driving in certain parts of the city without a passenger;
if you have a family gathering in the park for over 15 people and you don't get a permit--you will be fined.

I hate that State.

ravinraven
June 21, 2005, 11:44 AM
A friend of mine, now deceased was born and raised somewhere in the Levitttown area, I guess before it was Ltown. He left the place about 1946 and moved up here and never went back even for a visit.

About 20 years ago, he gets a summons from some traffic court in NYC to appear and explain why he hadn't paid his speeding ticket.

He was about a year getting the bastids off his case. They threatened to take his license, do his wife and kidnap his dog. He kept telling them to "bring it on if you like lawsuits." Apparently some cop who was a bit behind for some month just grabbed names from some driver list. Or maybe it was the time of the great NYC traffic ticket scandal and someone was trying to refill the bag. Don't know.

After about a year some nitwit judge [that might be a redundancy] sent some official form that said "In the interest of justice, this ticket is dismissed." Or some such wording. Thqat got him to writing letters to the state AG, etc. "How can something that never was be dismissed?" he asked.

They were trying to hide the fact of the f-up by pretending to be magnaminous.

How many would panic and pay the busts for bucks practitioners?

rr

Pilgrim
June 21, 2005, 12:07 PM
For a number of years I taught traffic safety classes in the PDRK for people who received traffic tickets and wanted the ticket to not show up in increased insurance rates. I used to ask my students if they believed they had been fined for their transgressions, or merely taxed. After a discussion on the differences between fines and taxes, the class usually came to the decision that they were taxed for their behavior.

Pilgrim

MechAg94
June 21, 2005, 12:25 PM
Hey, we always burned trash growing up. Couldn't pay for trash haulers to come out to the country. Of course, the nearest neighbor was 100 yards away. I always felt lucky that it was a chore for my brother and I to play with matches when we were kids. :)
My parents separate their trash these days and have a small dumpster that is picked up once a month.

Standing Wolf
June 21, 2005, 07:24 PM
That's okay. I've got a speeding quota to meet, too.

Actually, the only place I still exceed the posted limit by more than about five miles per hour is Highway 50 in Nevada. I still think like a speeder, but don't actually speed much.

Vernal45
June 21, 2005, 07:27 PM
Was speaking with a cop buddy of mine today, happened to mention this article. He laughed. Told me there are ticket quotas, his department has them, and all divisions have different quotas, traffic being the highest. Here is where it gets interesting. The money generated from the tickets goes to the county/city court funds AND the State Police Retirement Fund. Hows that. :what:

Pilgrim
June 21, 2005, 10:31 PM
The money generated from the tickets goes to the county/city court funds AND the State Police Retirement Fund. Hows that.

In **********, the only reliable source of funding for counties and cities is their share of sales tax collected in their jurisdictions and court ordered fines. All other taxes that are collected, income and property, go to the state. The legislature decides how much of the revenues collected from income and property taxes are returned to the counties and cities.

CALPERS, the California Public Employees Retirement System, receives funding for pensions from payroll deductions plus employer's contributions to the system. So, I guess indirectly, monies collected from traffic fines fund peace officer retirement.

Pilgrim

Logistics
June 22, 2005, 12:27 AM
Like my signature says........."Law enforcement" eh? Try tax collection with a gun.

:barf:

motoman
June 22, 2005, 12:52 AM
If people would plead not guilty to every ticket received, there would be a dramatic reduction in tickets issued. There is no way the government can come out in the deal if you make them hold a trial for a $130.00 speeding ticket. They have to pay a judge, bailiff, court reporter, court admins, prosecuting attorney, etc...

Logistics
June 22, 2005, 01:27 AM
>>>The money generated from the tickets goes to the county/city court funds AND the State Police Retirement Fund. Hows that. <<<

I believe there is a formal name for something like that. Extortion.


How do these people take themselves seriously???

Boggles the mind.....

C96
June 22, 2005, 01:46 AM
Hey - motoman, you unfamilair with the term "court costs" ? Go to trial and lose
and it's the fine PLUS court costs and they will not be losing money. :eek:

allan

Elmer
June 22, 2005, 02:26 AM
My department had a point system where citations written would earn you gifts and Disneyland and other amusement park admission tickets. Later, because of the hassle of storing all the gifts, they worked out a deal with Green Stamps, where the points would just be traded one for one for Green Stamps. This way, we could just go into one of the Green Stamp redemption centers and pick out whatever we had enough stamps for. I worked a radar car, so i just about furnished my house with that program.

I still use a toaster and a La-Z-Boy recliner I won. The Bar-BQ grill I won finally gave out last year. Wish I was still on the street. I hate actually having to go out and buy one.

motoman
June 22, 2005, 03:08 AM
Hey - motoman, you unfamilair with the term "court costs" ? Go to trial and lose

I'm familiar with "court costs". But thats not the case here in MN. Not for traffic tickets anyway :)

ravinraven
June 22, 2005, 04:47 AM
We have a strange situation up here. The county discovered that they were losing money on the DWI program everytime they busted a welfare artist. The county got to pay the guy's lawyer, fine and court costs plus provide transportation for him and his family while his license was suspended.

Can anyone here guess what the solution to that problem was?

Right! Go to the head of the class.

rr

Pilgrim
June 22, 2005, 12:18 PM
If people would plead not guilty to every ticket received, there would be a dramatic reduction in tickets issued. There is no way the government can come out in the deal if you make them hold a trial for a $130.00 speeding ticket. They have to pay a judge, bailiff, court reporter, court admins, prosecuting attorney, etc...

While a good idea, it needs to taken one step further to be truly effective. When found guilty and the fine assessed, the defendant has to say, "Your honor, I can't afford to pay the fine. May I serve my fine in jail instead?" In the PDRK, the going rate for converting fines into jail time was $30 a day.

Instead of you paying them, they have to pay to feed you.

Pilgrim

Reno
June 22, 2005, 01:42 PM
It's wrong to institute a hard lower threshold on the number of tickets that must be issued. However, it's not wrong to evaluate an officer's performance based on statistics. If, for example, the average number of tickets written by an officer is 30 per month, and the number of tickets you write is 5 per month, the chief is justified in questioning your performance. Sounds to me like the others need the talking-to.

TheFederalistWeasel
June 22, 2005, 02:25 PM
We have a requirement of two documents contacts a day, 28 per month.

These can be citations or written warnings at our discretion.

But in all honesty give me our Pro Laser III and 30 minutes on I-75 and Iíll have two documents contacts guaranteed.

Speed limit is 70 for the most part; except for a few construction zones we have which are 60 mph.

I wonít even put my patrol car in gear unless youíre doing 85 or better, itís not uncommon to stop folks doing 90, 95 and even 100 on I-75.

Last week I stop a man and a woman in a Cadillac SUV doing 103 mph.

He admitted to me that this was his second speeding ticket in one week but that he was just in a hurry and felt the cost of the ticket was the price of travel these days, at 103 mph mind youÖ

JohnBT
June 22, 2005, 03:37 PM
"If I'm playing my music and a cop walks by my car and he hears it--is that "to loud";"

Yes. Please keep your racket on your property. Thank you.

John

Hawkmoon
June 22, 2005, 03:42 PM
quality-of-life tickets
Ok what are these?
You've heard that country-western song about a boy having too much fun? That's what rates a "quality of life" ticket.

In other words, if you have any quality of life left, it must be illegal so they're gonna ticket you for it.

444
June 22, 2005, 03:48 PM
I was talking to an NHP trooper who told me that they were pretty much expected to write about a dozen tickets a day. She didn't say this in so many words, but implied it.
She told me that she didn't waste her time writing tickets for less than 100 MPH because she could do her 10-12 tickets a day all at over 100 mph without even trying. She could do that in an hour.

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