(IN) Authorities Seize Weapons Cache From Home


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Drizzt
June 21, 2005, 10:31 AM
Authorities Seize Weapons Cache From Home

POSTED: 7:17 am EST June 21, 2005
UPDATED: 7:26 am EST June 21, 2005

OAKVILLE, Ind. -- Authorities seized several assault rifles, submachine guns, ammunition and explosives from a former Army soldier's property and said they believed he was a threat to the community.

They also found extremist literature, including a book written and signed by Randy Weaver, who gained fame after waging the Ruby Ridge standoff against federal authorities in 1992, the sheriff said. The weapons seizure at Jack Wilkerson's home was likely the largest in Delaware County history, Sheriff George Sheridan said.

Police recovered an estimated $30,000 worth of guns, 2,000 pounds of ammunition and 436 pounds of explosives.

"We're talking mortar shells, artillery rounds, tank rounds and projectiles," Sheridan said.

Wilkerson, a 64-year-old retired U.S. Army electronics specialist, lived by himself in a run-down, single-story house that was protected by an alarm system and infrared surveillance in the 230-person town 10 miles south of Muncie, police said.

Deputies discovered the cache Saturday after family members asked police to check on Wilkerson, who had threatened to kill himself, Sheridan said.

But neighbors said they knew he was a gun collector and eccentric.

"He was no threat to us," Paul Covington, a next-door neighbor with three young children, told The Star Press of Muncie.

Others said police exaggerated the importance of the discovery and are hurting Wilkerson's reputation. Wilkerson has not been charged and was at Ball Memorial Hospital for psychiatric evaluation, Sheridan said.

The sheriff's department bomb squad spent four hours blowing up the explosives at a shooting range Sunday but saved the ammunition in case it would be necessary for future investigations or court proceedings, Sheridan said.

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/4633168/detail.html

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KriegHund
June 21, 2005, 10:36 AM
Yep, he was just waiting for that last round to arrive to go on massive rampage of death dealing destruction, what with assualt rifles and submachineguns and explosives.

Well heck, you know he was gonna snap since he was in the army, the ultra-right training boot camp, we dont need no stinkin' army!

And you just know they expereimented on him...

It was for the children, we swear!

jpIII
June 21, 2005, 10:41 AM
436 pounds of explosives
several assault rifles, submachine guns,
possibly illegal if the news story isn't exagerated (I'm not holding my breath)

extremist literature
Nothing to see here.

$30,000 worth of guns, 2,000 pounds of ammunition
What self respecting THR member wouldn't want to aspire to that collection!


This quote (emphasis mine) Wilkerson has NOT BEEN CHARGED and was at Ball Memorial Hospital for psychiatric evaluation, Sheridan said.
leads me to believe that the only thing that was "illegal" was that he threatened to kill himself,


Time will tell however.

2nd Amendment
June 21, 2005, 11:16 AM
They also found extremist literature, including a book written and signed by Randy Weaver...

Check yer personal libraries, pardners, cause this will be life under the Patriot Act for all of us, once Hellary takes charge...

RavenVT100
June 21, 2005, 11:18 AM
I doubt the LEOs care about the literature he had. The newsmedia is the entity that cares about it. I always consider the term "assault rifle" to be suspect and to refer to any type of rifle when the media uses it, but you seldom hear about submachine guns, which are also NFA items. Likewise with artillery rounds and live explosives. So it isn't as if he wasn't breaking the law by having those items.

It's sad that the media has to make a circus out of it though.

thereisnospoon
June 21, 2005, 11:28 AM
Thank goodness they destroyed and confiscated all that stuff. I feel really safe now knowing that the local government has the right to invade my home and confiscate my property because someone felt I was a danger to myself. :fire:

I notice the report did not claim that anything that was confiscated was illegal, even though they use the ugly words "assault rifle" and "submachine guns" which I'm sure is either an oversight or could it be the "explosives" were inert and the "submachine guns" and "assault rifles" semi-auto versions and therefore legal to own????????

I guess an earlier post was correct, only time will tell, but now that they have him locked up in the looney bin, I'm sure he will be found mentally defective and the rest of his property will be "destroyed" by the local LEOs (or put to good use, like those D.A.R.E. cars you see around town).

Skunkabilly
June 21, 2005, 11:37 AM
Extremist literature? That Constitution thing is pretty anti-government too if you ask me.

2nd Amendment
June 21, 2005, 11:47 AM
I doubt the LEOs care about the literature he had.

Yes, that lack of concern would explain why this was a statement from the sheriff...

Pilgrim
June 21, 2005, 11:58 AM
Prosecutors make a big deal about the personal libraries of defendants to show their "mind set" towards committing a crime. Can you imagine the confusion in a trial if the jurors decide, "We want to read those books to see if they are as horrible as you say, Mr. Prosecutor."

Pilgrim

Vernal45
June 21, 2005, 12:00 PM
Wonder if they found any coffee cans? Geez. Leave the man alone.

cortez kid
June 21, 2005, 12:01 PM
From what I read, the Ruby Ridge incident was a Fed inspired massacre, not a stand-off?
kid

The Freeholder
June 21, 2005, 12:25 PM
You know, except for the explosives (and for all I know, some of us may be licensed for those as well), the description of items could be of any number of THR members. Face it, how many of us own multiple "assualt weapons"? And given what ammo weighs (I know 1260 rounds of the South African .308 weighs 81 pounds), it wouldn't take too long to get to 2000 pounds. Heck, I've got at least 75# of spent brass alone waiting for me to reload it!

I know if they looked in my gunsafe, or on my bookshelves or read my blog the local media would have an entire litter of kittens. "Why there's one of those members of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy right here in River City!" :rolleyes:

The whole thing reminds me of a tagline I started seeing shortly after the Waco "episode": "Is your religion BATF approved?" Is your gun collection and/or taste in reading material approved by the local LEOs? Might be an important check box some day soon.

ssr
June 21, 2005, 12:41 PM
So why were they seized? Nothing in there says what he may have done that was illegal.

rhubarb
June 21, 2005, 01:26 PM
including a book written and signed by Randy Weaver, who gained fame after waging the Ruby Ridge standoff against federal authorities in 1992

Mr. Weaver didn't wage a standoff as one would wage war. He and his family only sought to defend themselves against murderous invaders. I'm quite sure that he acted on principle, not to "gain fame." If he was so intent on being famous, I don't think he would have been living in a cabin in the boonies.

The sheriff's department bomb squad spent four hours blowing up the explosives at a shooting range Sunday but saved the ammunition in case it would be necessary for future investigations or court proceedings, Sheridan said.

Four hours? I bet they had a grand ole time. Kind of like when the pictures I've seen in the paper of the destruction of seized dope. Stern-faced authorities standing around a smoldering pile of pot. :scrutiny:

Question: Is it illegal to have mortar, artillery and tank rounds?

Wilkerson has not been charged

captain obvious
June 21, 2005, 01:36 PM
including a book written and signed by Randy Weaver

Hey, I have one of those [met him at Dulles in 2004]!

So now BATF/DOJ/DEA/EPA has the cause to search and seize my bookcase and collection? While my firearms may not [yet] be worth over $30k, it's certainly at least a reasonable fraction of that - compound that by the fact that my neighbors [one of which has a bumper sticker that openly supports castro, as well as standard democrat stuff], are at odds with me politically...

...I'm scared - seriously - if this can happen in Indiana, WV loses its usual place out of the realm of possibility for this kind of nonsense.

Hawkmoon
June 21, 2005, 01:48 PM
Can't trust either the media or "authorities." For all we know, the guy may be a collector of military memorabelia and the so-called "explosives" may have been deactivated, de-milled chunks or old ordnance.

Or not.

MechAg94
June 21, 2005, 02:25 PM
So since, the "explosives" were destroyed, does that mean that they cannot be used as evidence against him?

mainmech48
June 21, 2005, 03:32 PM
Betcha that the vast bulk of those "explosives" were kegs and/or canisters of commercial smokeless powder. Wouldn't be too surprised if primers weren't included in the total, just to round things out to an even more "alarming" number.

IMO, they destroyed the "explosives" because they could. I'm not familiar enough with the rules of evidence to know under what circumstances material evidence may be destroyed rather than held pending adjudication, but I'm sure that there're any number obscure ordinances which they can cite to justify it. Violation of local fire codes, "improper" storage, etc.

The one thing that I'd give odds on is that he'll play hell seeing any of that property again, no matter what the pshrinks end up deciding about his mental condition. He'd need assets on the close order of a Michael Jackson to even find an attorney who'd take the case.

If he did, indeed, have in his possesssion any actual Class III items - subguns, grenades, "destructive devices" or whatever without the requisite documentation, then he's justifiably toast. Whatever you might think about the 1935 Firearms Act or its 1968 adjuncts, he had to have been aware of the penalties.

It'll be interesting to see just how much of the inflammatory wording in the story holds up to closer scrutiny when the facts come out, if they ever do.

TheEgg
June 21, 2005, 03:45 PM
Sounds like the old man has been sentenced to political re-education camp. :(

But, I am willing to learn more -- maybe he did break a bunch of laws and was on the edge of committing suicide. But from the sparse information we have, he could just as easily be totally innocent victim of over-earger JBT's.

Key so far? He has not been charged with anything.

robb969
June 21, 2005, 03:50 PM
Damn... Guess I need to go burn my Autographed Ted Nugent Book...

hoppinglark
June 21, 2005, 03:56 PM
Quick someone call the ACLU this man's property was stolen by the government without due process of law!

Civil Liberties Union..yeah right!

cordex
June 21, 2005, 03:58 PM
I'd wager that the vast majority of the "mortar shells, artillery rounds, tank rounds and projectiles" were probably the demilled stuff you can buy for a few bucks apiece at gun shows. All too often the media (at times fueled by ignorance on the part of some police) freaks out when a spent rocket tube is found or someone has a demilled artillery shell propped in a corner of their reloading room.

thereisnospoon
June 21, 2005, 03:58 PM
Is being a member of THR PC for investigating my persnal property? :cuss:

Werewolf
June 21, 2005, 04:12 PM
[Homer Simpson voice on]Ummmmmmmmm... Extremist Literature [/Homer Simpson Voice]

Unintended Consequences, Enemies Foreign and Domestic (my wife still thinks that one is a terrorist how to manual), Black Arrow - anyone... anyone... Buehler?

kwelz
June 21, 2005, 04:17 PM
It never fails to amaze me how people with jump to all sorts of conclusions before they have the entire story.

The guy had threatened to kill himself. This is why the police went to his place. Not because of any number of weapons, ammo, or explosives.
He owned explosives. Not empty shells, not casings, explosives.

Now a person who has shown he is mentally unstable has been put under observation to try and get him help and some people here are screaming that he is in Re-education by the government. I really resent the screams of Jack booted Thuggery by the police. I know a lot of officers from all over the state and with the exception of a few bad apples we have it good here.

Why don't we wait and see the whole story before we start rallying around this guy and turning him into a (probably undeserving) martyr.


*sigh* I sometimes feel that we are our own worst enemy. Just because the guy was a gun owner does not mean he was a good guy or "one of us"

centac
June 21, 2005, 04:21 PM
"You know, except for the explosives (and for all I know, some of us may be licensed for those as well), the description of items could be of any number of THR members"

Particularly given the unique psychosocial bent of some of the people here, would'nt suprise me a bit. :scrutiny:

captain obvious
June 21, 2005, 04:38 PM
Particularly given the unique psychosocial bent of some of the people here, would'nt suprise me a bit.
:fire:

What the ???? does this mean?

Are you saying that only nutcases would collect guns?

Otherguy Overby
June 21, 2005, 04:56 PM
What if he actually had an NFA registered machine gun or two?

Can cops legally take them without filing any charges?

centac
June 21, 2005, 05:29 PM
No, I just think some people here are nutcases, who happen to collect guns.

Risasi
June 21, 2005, 05:52 PM
Nice Centac.

Malone LaVeigh
June 21, 2005, 06:01 PM
II wonder if I should bury my autographed copy of The Monkeywrench Gang.

Derby FALs
June 21, 2005, 06:06 PM
No, I just think some people here are nutcases, who happen to collect guns.
If the shoe fits, bud...

rock jock
June 21, 2005, 06:08 PM
Randy Weaver is an author now? Hasn't this guy has milked his 15 minutes of fame long enough?

2nd Amendment
June 21, 2005, 06:21 PM
Jealous?

Derby FALs
June 21, 2005, 06:23 PM
He and Sara wrote a book at least 7 years ago. I doubt either one wouldn't rather have the "15 miutes of fame" disappear and get their family back. :(

R.H. Lee
June 21, 2005, 06:24 PM
No, I just think some people here are nutcases, who happen to collect guns You have a degree in psychiatry now? I thought you were a cop, on the coffee can patrol.

Standing Wolf
June 21, 2005, 07:06 PM
They also found extremist literature, including a book written and signed by Randy Weaver, who gained fame after waging the Ruby Ridge standoff against federal authorities in 1992...

Well, heck, send him to a reeducation center! We, uh... do have reeducation centers, right?

bigjim
June 21, 2005, 07:19 PM
No, I just think some people here are nutcases, who happen to collect guns.

I had a very long reply all typed out. But deleted it. Just not worth it.

Centac why do you even bother to come here?

Vernal45
June 21, 2005, 07:23 PM
So, now we have to worry about coffee cans AND the copy of "ENEMIES FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC. Hmm, a coffee can and a book is now PC for some LEO's to mess with you. How nice?

bigjim
June 21, 2005, 07:23 PM
You have a degree in psychiatry now? I thought you were a cop, on the coffee can patrol.

Hey did you ever see that South Park episode where Cartman got to be a policeman?

Daniel T
June 21, 2005, 07:34 PM
Centac why do you even bother to come here?

You know, I was wondering that myself, as he doesn't ever actually talk about guns. Ever. He has one single, solitary post in any of the forums that deal specifically with firearms.

gm
June 21, 2005, 07:34 PM
wow..I feel so much safer now. if he wouldve had a poster of smiling ted or diane on the wall, they surly wouldve had to let him go, then he wouldve been politically correct. Thats what this is about..right?

insidious_calm
June 21, 2005, 07:54 PM
Centac why do you even bother to come here?


More likely than not, it's one of his work assignments along with several of the other trolls on this board. FWIW, I think he's got it all bass ackwards. The volume of those who, IMO are "nut jobs" based solely upon review of their actions, are in his profession is what is scary!



I.C.

Cacique500
June 21, 2005, 07:59 PM
Unintended Consequences, Enemies Foreign and Domestic (my wife still thinks that one is a terrorist how to manual), Black Arrow - anyone... anyone... Buehler?

Uh oh... :uhoh:

Wonder if they found any coffee cans?

LMAO! http://www.1911pistolgrips.com/img/miscwebpics/tinfoil.gif

Hey did you ever see that South Park episode where Cartman got to be a policeman?
http://www.1911pistolgrips.com/img/miscwebpics/cartman_cop.jpg

centac
June 22, 2005, 12:11 AM
Actually my degree is in psychology, I'm not an MD.

Bunch of defensive people here, whats wrong, hit a nerve? Little too close to home?

no further

pax
June 22, 2005, 12:17 AM
That's enough of that.

pax

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