[SeanSw]

I took my model 67 to the range for the 2nd time today and noticed a problem. It wasn't obvious the first time I shot the gun, because I only used one box of ammo, and most of it was single action. I have a chamber which misfires under double action shooting due to a misplaced hammer strike. During single action everything works fine but it has a high failure rate during DA firing. I loaded up some empty casings and dry fired about 50 times to take this picture.

http://www.uploadhouse.com/images/863599561M67_bad.jpg

Although I'm an inexperienced shooter my accuracy seemed to be hampered by something that wasn't entirely my fault. A fellow shooter at the range was kind enough to let me fire a .357 for the first time (a beautiful nickel 27, which was amazing) and I hit the bullseye 8/12 shots at 7 yards - my very first time shooting a magnum!

I have tried WWB 130 grain .38s, and they don't seem very accurate in my gun. Magtech 158 grains may have been slightly less accurate. Surprisingly, I was most accurate with the WWB 125 grain +p. Despite the stronger recoil I was shooting groups almost 2" smaller (mind you, I'm only shooting at 5-7 yards)

I'm pretty bummed that my first gun is going to cost extra $$$ to fix. For the money spent I had expected something without any issues, but now I need to decide if it's worth investing more money.

After shooting a few cylinders from that 6" model 27 I feel like any money not spent on obtaining my own is wasted! I have fired a few guns despite being new to the hobby, and without a doubt that is the slickest gun I have ever used.

Do any of you know what the problem might be here? Or what I can expect it to cost for a repair?

[sgt127]

Stop shooting it. Its out of time badly enough that you may have a very serious accident soon. The problem is in the hand (the part that pushes the cylinder around) , the bolt (the part that drops into the little notches on the side of the cylinder) , or the extractor star (the part in the picture).

I don't know how old it is, but, S&W customer support is truly outstanding. Call and ask nicely for a shipping label, they may send you one for free. S&W turn around time is measured in days, not weeks. That is a spectacular revolver, that is easy to fix and let the people that built it get it back together for you. Even if they charge you for the repairs, it will be no more than any reputable gunsmith out there.

[SDC]

If it only happens on that one chamber, then it's almost certain that one of the teeth on your extractor star is chewed up, and not advancing the cylinder to the proper spot. It should be an easy fix.

[Standing Wolf]

Stop shooting it. Its out of time badly enough that you may have a very serious accident soon.

I'll second that, and add this: please stop shooting it!

I'd guess the problem is in the extractor star. The quickest, simplest, easiest thing to do is contact Smith & Wesson—which is probably going to be the least expensive approach, as well.

Once it's properly fixed, the gun should shoot as well as any model 27, although since it's lighter, it'll pass along more recoil.

[thatguy]

The fact that it's clearly one chamber suggests to me that it's not the hand. It must be the indexing notches on the ejector star (I'm sure that's not the correct terminology). One of them is worn or damaged and doesn't bring that one chamber into proper alignment. If you cock the hammer slowly (gun unloaded) you might see this effect as one chamber will not lock into place fully, leaving a slight amount of movement in the rotating cylinder. It might be correctable or it might need a new star. It is a shame but once in a while it happens. If you bought it from a dealer he should exchange it or refund your money.

[SeanSw]

Thanks everyone, I appreciate the advice.

The ejector star appears to be in perfect condition but I sure can't see anything else well enough to judge. I will let someone else determine the problem and hope for the best. I've read a lot of great things on the forum about S&W's customer service, but I sure hadn't expected to need it so soon.

If the gun is sent back to S&W are there any other operations I should have them perform while it's in shop?

[BluesBear]

You say it only happens while DA firing?

My guess is that it happens more in rapid fire and that if you try it with a once fired empty case only once, you'll notice the firing pin strike will be "past" the primer.

If I am correct this means it's a worn locking notch on the outside of the cylinder.
This would be the notch 180?° from the "bad" chamber.

If I am correct, this means the cylinder is rotating past proper lockup.

It's lucky for you it's going far enough past the primer so that it doesn't fire. A bullet trying to straddle the edge of the barrel is BAD news at best.

[SeanSw]

I sent my revolver back to S&W for repair and never heard back from them regarding the status of the repair. I waited a few weeks and called them for a status report, and after looking up my serial number, I was told that the revolver had been taken to their desk and should be completed that day or the next and shipped back to me within the week. Because I had not been contacted to approve a repair, or been asked to approve payment, I assumed they were taking care of things on their own.

I called them again today for another status report and was told that the gun repair had not even begun because it was a charged repair, and I had not sent payment. Then they told me that it would be another 4-6 weeks before the gun was complete, and only if I paid over the phone. Using the serial number they were able to tell me what repairs would be made, and what the cost would be, but they never mentioned any of it during the previous phone call.

I included all my contact information and asked them to contact me for repair and price confirmation, which never happened. I was waiting around for nothing, it seems.

If I had known the turnaround would take over 2 months, I would have sent the gun to someone else. This is far slower than I expected.

[Standing Wolf]

I included all my contact information and asked them to contact me for repair and price confirmation, which never happened.

It's a Q.C. thing. Smith & Wesson doesn't get it.

[Master Blaster]

So out of curiosity, what repairs were needed, and how much are they going to charge for them?

[SeanSw]

I should have written down everything they mentioned it, because I've forgotten some of it. None of them seemed outlandish, but they basically described a revolver that was worn out and needed a tune-up

Remove endshake, install oversized cylinder stop, replace cylinder..... I don't think they mentioned anything about reducing the cylinder gap (it was at .007)

Total cost was under $70. How would that compare to an independent gunsmith?

[BluesBear]

Total cost was under $70. Sounds like a bargain to me.
Especially when you consider that retail on a new cylinder is over $100!

Since they're replacing the cylinder you'll have practically a new gun.
And you'll probably have a smaller cylinder gap.

[thatguy]

If they actually put a new cylinder in it that's dirt cheap. I had a cylinder replacement done once (don't load 16 grains of Unique in a .45 Colt case) and the smith charged me $140 using a used cylinder.

BTW- .007 BC gap is within specs. Around .003 - .005 is ideal, but I have guns much worse than .007 that work fine and I have seen brand new guns arrive with larger gaps than yours.

[Master Blaster]

I would give them the green light to do the work.

They are basically doing it for free even though the gun is not under warranty.

They are only asking that you pick up $70 which is the cost of shipping both ways via fedex.

[rick_reno]

That's cheap. Send it off before they change their minds.

[Frandy]

Go for it. A bargain!

[grimjaw]

Going by the estimates on their website, to do the same work on my 67-1 was going to cost ~$200. Maybe they flubbed a bit with the response time, but if the work is quality (and from what I hear about S&W's gunsmithing services, it should be) a new cylnder and extra work for $70 sounds like a deal.

Or you could just send them my gun instead and tell them you gave them the wrong revolver and wrong return address . . .

jmm

[SeanSw]

Well, all this certainly makes me feel a little better!

I'm not absolutely positive that the cylinder is being replaced, but the operatoin was mentioned. Besides having peened indexing notches the cylinder was already in good shape. Is it more common to service a cylinder, or to have one replaced?

I only have one gun and very little opportunity to practice with it. 2 1/2 months possible turnaround really takes me out of the game for awhile.

I never had any reservations about the quality of the work, but the timeframe was drastically smaller during the initial phone conversations than the previous one.

Knowing that I'll have a revolver that should be good for another generation of shooting is reassuring.

[sgt127]

A gunsmith might stretch a hand, fix a cylinder star etc. The factory will replace the parts. If the cylinder notches are boogered up, I guess you could gently peen them back into place, if the metal wasn't removed, but, it would make more sense to replace it, and, thats what the factory will do. That gun will come back within specs for a brand new gun.

[Bullet]

SeanSw

Next time you talk to S&W tell them you sent your gun back to them because you are on a gun forum and S&W was recommended to do the repair and the people on the gun forum are waiting to find out how long this repair will take. I’ll bet you get better service when they know you’re on a gun forum.

[SeanSw]

The revolver is back in my posession again today, putting the turnaround time just under 6 weeks. Accurate to their estimate if you begin counting when the gun is recieved by them.

There is a new oversized cylinder stop, some endshake was removed, and the mechanicals feel much more fresh. The clicks are sharper and more audible than they used to be.

The cylinder seems to lock up fine but I can still feel the upset metal of the cylinder notches. It will catch your fingernail easily. I hope that it does not become a problem anytime in the next 50 years.

I'm happy to have it back and look forward to my next shooting session.