[Shorts]

Well I got bored today and decided to try the park method of steel wool, phosphoric acid, and distilled water. My CCO project will need refinishing and I was leaning towards a parked gun anyway. I used a 1:20 ratio acid to water. Here's the story:

I pulled these 4 washers from my garage bucket. They're old and dirty and I don't remember what they're made of. More on that later.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b5d803b3127cce92003114dab700000016108AZOXDdw2Yte

I got things setup in the kitchen.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b5d803b3127cce92003112dab100000016108AZOXDdw2Yte

These are the last two after a scrubdown with a Scotch pad.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b5d803b3127cce92003110dab300000016108AZOXDdw2Yte

I have placed the washers on a hanger and put them in the pot. The steel wool and solution has been warmed up to the edge of boiling point. The fizzing is a good sign.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b5d803b3127cce920031115b8200000016108AZOXDdw2Yte

Here the washers have been hot water rinsed and WD40ed.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b5d803b3127cce9200311f5b8c00000016108AZOXDdw2Yte

Washers are wiped down and dry.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b5d803b3127cce9200311cdabf00000016108AZOXDdw2Yte

Here you see the importance of completely submerging the parts. Now, I really don't care that this happened to test washers. But if were the actual pistol, I'd be a little upset
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b5d803b3127cce9200311d5b8e00000016108AZOXDdw2Yte

Now, I know there were some mistakes I made.



1) I didn't prewash the steel wool. And I'm prety sure I contaminated it with my hands.

2) The hangers weren't washed, again, contamination.

3) I didn't prep the surfaces completely (test run lack of details). Had this been a final project, I would have been more anal about the surface. And you can see the results in the washer with the black marks around the center hole.

4) I didn't submerge the parts completely. Again, for the test, I'm fine with it. I also didn't want to make a big batch of solution for only a few parts. Be aware, as I'm sure you've already read, make enough solution t last the whole cooking time, as the quantity is reduced.

5) I didn't use a stainless steel pot. For let's-see-what-happens-if-i-use-this-pot sake, I pulled an old "Great Cooks" pot from way underneath the cabinet. I want to say it did ok since that one piece got nice and dark. The other three are different material, so apparently, the pot didn't hurt the process wit that dark one.

Anyhow, any criticisms and hints, send them my way. As for the materials the washers are made of, again, I'm not sure. They were in my truck parts bucket that has gone through a complete suspension lift kit or two. I like the way that thick washer came out, nice and dark. The other 3, while I don't like the light grey as much, there is a nice tint to it. Really though, I don't think those took too well to the parkerizing. If anyone can shed light on why, I'd love to know.

As for using a park kit, I did have one in mind, I just did this for fun, let's see what happens sake. Really, looking at the pics, it doesn't look llike a whole lot happened. I did put a nice scratch in the dark washer pulling it off the hanger so, something worked

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=25736&stc=1

[Jim Watson]

I would say that the washer that darkened was to some degree phosphated. The ones that didn't are probably zinc or cadmium plated and you just etched the plating. What is the cookpot made out of? If iron or steel, it consumed a lot of the phosphate itself. If aluminum, heaven knows, I worked in fertilizer R&D and we sure didn't use aluminum equipment with phosphoric acid. I have read recommendations to home parkerize in a Pyrex container.

[Shorts]

EDIT: I'm retarded, I forgot about pyrex beakers :D


I'm not sure what the pot is made of that I used. I tried looking it up online, and of course, looking at it right there in front of me. But I'm nearly completely ignorant when it comes to telling metals apart from each other.

Now, I've had this idea stuck in my head, about blueing over park for a dark park color. I'm just foolng with ideas.

Actually, I just ordered some Manganese Dioxide from the pottery supply store so I'll see what adding that to the solution does.

[Deavis]

Your range is gas, right? I think I see a gas range in the right hand side of the picture. If not, remember to get an asbestos pad to put on the coil to evenly disperse the heat into the beaker you use. Just thought I'd throw that out there in case you hand't thought about it.

[Pointman]

Nice, thanks for posting this as I've been toying with doing something similiar (using The Works tube & tile since the wife keeps it "in inventory" already).

I believe you'll get darker results if you add some manganese from a D-cell or two. Not sure of the quantity, haven't gotten that far myself yet :rolleyes:

[Shorts]

Yeah, I think per gallon of water, the acid is around 4oz and the Mang. Dioxide is also around 2oz. I am going to try this current recipe with a new SS pot and see if that helps results. I do need to tinker aroound with amounts. The acid I'm using is actually Aqua Mix Phos. Acid cleaner from the tile section at Home Depot. So, the concentration is diluted and I need to find the right mix for the parking.

We shall see :D

[HankC]

Pointman,

I think the Works cleaner you referred is actually Tub and Shower cleaner which has phos acid labeled as active ingredient on the container. I was interested using that for the pros acid as well, since it is only 99C per bottle, and wanted to know the % acid content so I asked the company to send me MSDS sheet. It does not show pros acid but shows sulfamic acid 1-8% and oxalic acid 1-8%.

Shorts,

I just checked MSDS (http://www.aquamix.com/msdspdf/pac.pdf) at Aqua Mix website, the acid cleaner has 23% phos acid. I think you find a good source! I was going to try JASCO Prep and Prime, which is a rust converter with 75% phos acid.

Hank

[Jammer Six]

Please keep us posted.

I've done work to my Milspec, and following my theory of I-don't-care-about-the-paintjob-but-the-engine-has-to-run, I haven't done any cosmetic stuff yet.

Eventually, though, I'm going to have to take a dremel to it, and then it'll need to be re-finished. I want it parkerized, and of course I want to do it myself.

So details, recipes, sources and methods would all be very appreciated, and thank you in advance!

[Pointman]

HankC, yes there are 2 products from The Works, one with phos and one with sulfa. I can never keep them straight... I seem to recall the phos was in the 5% range and likely too weak. I'm certainly going to check out the other stuff! :D

[Shorts]

HankC, I completely forgot about Jasco until I read a recipe online and looked at a picture of the green bottle. Dad use to keep a bottle in the garage and use it on rust and it was some potent stuff. I might go pickup a bottle of that too and see what results I get.

JammerSix for the recipes just search online, there are several variations off the same basic ingredients. So, you just print them out and tinker with whichever one you want to try. I currently have 2 that I'm trying. I need to fine tune amounts and whatnot.

Here's a couple:

http://t6aluminum.tripod.com/Parkerizing.htm

http://www.jouster.com/articles30m1/parkerizing.html

another: 1 gallon of water,5 oz. of Jasco prep/primer,1 oz. Mang.dioxide.,and 4" piece of black iron pipe.



EDIT: I did another test today, 96oz H2O, 4oz Jasco, 1.5oz Mang Dioxide, and 1 steel wool biscuit. Actually, I'm kinda frustrated with today's results. I can't get something right and another crappe` coat. :banghead:

[gamachinist]

Shorts,
Go give this a look:
http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?
There are several other parkerising threads on the site also.

[Slimjim]

My friend has an interesting coating for his AK's he builds. You paint the part you are working with in Rustoleum Textured. And than bake in the oven for about an hour at 400 degrees, atleast i believe thats it, id have to check. Anyway the paint hardens, and pretty much nothing can harm it, except muzzle blast. As we found out in the slots on the flash suppressor where it was gone after firing.

[Jim Watson]

There is a favorable report on Shooters Solution parkerizing products at
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174261

I think you are swimming upstream trying to use those household and garage products as a source of phosphoric acid. Who knows what kind of additives are in the mix that might not affect their intended use but can - do? - prevent a uniform effect as a sole finish.
Best to buy some reagent grade, if you can find it, or a gunsmithing product.

[Shorts]

gamachinist, that's where I got the crazy idea :o

Jim, I do have an actual product kit in mind. I just wanted to see what I could do with the home stuff I found. I was looking at Calvan. I saw it used in a project and it came out very nice. I have seen good reviews for Palmetto and a lot of advertising for Shooter's Solutions too.


With my homebrew here, I'm miffing up something really early on in the process though. When I drop the parts into the solution, I don't even really get a fizz going on the parts. So, no fizz = no reaction. Is that part prep or is that a solution problem? My steel wool does break down a bit, but not as much as I expected it to. The manganese dioxide did not dilute either. I suppose that is not suppose to...?

[perry1963]

There is a favorable report on Shooters Solution parkerizing products at

The two 1911s near the top of that thread are mine that i did with Shootersolution parkerizing and it is really good stuff, i have used others, AGI and Calvins, and this is the best i've found so far.

[swampsniper]

I have boiled small parts in OSPHO, diluted about 50% with water, and come up with a very hard, matte black finish. I have a lot of sulphur in the water, don't know how that effects anything. Biggest thing I ever tried was an old .32 revolver that was lightly pitted, but the finish is matte enough to hide most of the surface pits. Used a stainless pot, it did not show any effects.

[Jwar88]

You're on the right track....just a couple of suggestions ...important though...

You pretty much have to use distilled water for the park bath and the metal to be parkerized has to be cleaned to bare metal and very clean... no oils or contamination or plating before immersion in the park, in order to start the reaction.

TC

[Shorts]

Ok, I'll pick up some more distilled wter. I used distilled for the first test and then some purified drinking water for the second.

As for the hot water rinse before dropping the part into the solution, that should be hot distilled water too huh?

I would also love to be sand/bead blasting my parts, but I don't have a cabinet and compressor. So, for now it's just sandpaper and whatnot. So, not as good a prep job getting to bare metal.

[mfree]

Forget thee not, naval jelly :) 30% phosphoric acid, with a little sulfuric acid (3%) to boot.

[Jwar88]

The purified drinking water that is processed by reverse osmosis is fine as long as it has an low mineral content. It should, as long as they haven't added any minerals back in for taste.

It is probably a good idea to boil the parts in the distilled water as well...the point being to avoid contamination of the park solution so there are no weird results in the finish.

Sometimes a bath in mild hydrochloric acid to clean and remove rust is a helpful preliminary step. Just be sure to rinse and boil afterward, or you can really get some weird effects, and you cannot expose the part to air after the acid bath, it will rust in seconds. The acid bath can work well or not, it depends on a lot of factors.

The boiling vessels need to be either stainless or glass.

Parkerizing is a kind of art, it is good to experiment with various factors to figure out what works best for you.

TC

[Riss]

Am trying to find out the exact reading, but have been told that you can check the acid concentration by determining its specific gravity. Everone older than 40 should remember checking their car batteries and radiator with that kitchen baster with the little floating balls. That would be best way to see if concentration is correct. Have not yet been able to determine what the correct Sp Gravity is though. Any help?

[Shorts]

Actually I've done a few more tests and they've come out all right. I went ahead with 96oz purified water (Crystal Springs if that matters), 1/2-3/4c Jasco, 1 steel wood bisquit and a scoop (1-2oz maybe?) of manganese dioxide.

I did a couple pieces of angle iron for my vise jaws.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=26782&stc=1

Again you can see I didn't do a total job of roughing up the surface to bare matel, but regardless, the park took. You just see the difference. I matched these up next to the GI for comparison.


For giggles, I also applied a little Birchwood Casey blue paste to one of these. I as expecting a little darker, but, I can see the difference between the two.

[Jwar88]

Yes, you could measure the sg, but I am not sure there is a correct specific gravity to be specified, as the phosphatizing process works over a very wide range of concentrations, and is moderated by temperature and time, the metal alloy and hardness, etc....

In other words, the stronger the concentration is, the faster the reaction occurs, and at a lower temperature. The weaker the solution is, the longer it will have to be immersed to achieve the desired depth of finish. The solution will also "wear out" with use as well, so the time of immersion will vary there too, until it is too weak or contaminated for consistent results.

Personally, I prefer a fairly mild solution at a higher temp, but like I said earlier, it is more like an "art" than an exact science.... the final results are yours to behold.

TC

[Shorts]

Ok, the job I've been preparing for, I have now completed. I parked my CCO and I'm really happy with the way it came out. I droped the pieces in sooner, prior to boil, and then kept a slow rolling boil throughout. I think the hotter temp helps the dark (at least in my solution). I also added an extra tablespoon of manganese dioxide for good measure.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=26852&stc=1

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=26853&stc=1

[rbernie]

OK - now how's about writing up a concise recipe-n-steps (with sources of supply for your bill of materials) for your successful run, for those of us not paying attention in school? Pretty please? :D

[Shorts]

- 96oz distilled H2O (I use purified drinking water, $? it comes to my house, like $6 a month)
- 2 tblspn manganese dioxide $6 for 5lbs from the pottery store
- 1 steel wool bisquit, home depot $3 maybe for the pack
- 1/2-3/4c Jasco prep and primer, $7 bottle Home Depot
- WD40, $?, buy it anywhere
- black wire, $2 for 50'(?) roll at Home Depot
- stainless steel pot, $cheap at the nex
- stainless stir stick/skewer, $?, no clue, they're sitting around the junk drawers

As for the recipe, well, that's something you'll have to fiddle with getting right for your technique. Phophasting is pretty easy and flexible, but it is finiky about contanimated solution. And the parts must be steel. You can't do metals that are ferrous, aluminum or that type.

DISCLAIMER:
WEAR GLOVES, APRON AND GLASSES WHEN DOING THIS. DON'T COME CRYING TO ME IF YOU RUIN SOMETHING. USE TEST PIECES UNTIL YOU GET THE RESULTS YOU WANT, THEN USE YOUR GOOD PART. BE SAFE. DON'T USE YOUR WIFE'S POTS. DO THIS WHEN SHE ISN'T HOME. DON'T SNIFF THE FUMES, THEY ARE TOXIC. DON'T BE DUMB. POUR ACIDS INTO WATER.

Prep your part: degrease, remove the blue, sandblast/paper down to bare metal..degrease, don't touch with your hands. The surface needs to be a little textured, the particles stick better. Tie up your part with the black wire so that you can hang it in the solution. You don't want it sitting on the bottom. Then, I like to wash in hot Dawn tap water, then rinse in boiling purified water, then drop into the boiling solution.

For the solution: pour the purified water, scoop in the manganese dioxide into the steel pot, turn on the burner to med/high. Wash your steel wool in hot Dawn water, GET ALL THE SOAP OUT! Then drop into your hot boiling water to rinse. Pour your Jasco into the solution pot. Drop in steel wool when the solution is hot and steaming, before boiling. Let the wool in there a few minutes to fizz and bubble, then drop your parts in. Watch the clock. I like toleave my parts in for at least 20 minutes and until the steel wool is about gone. When they're ready, take the parts out and dip them again in the hot boiling water to rinse. Take them out and set them on newspaper. Spray them immediately with WD40. Let them sit a bit, then wiped of the parts with a paper/towel. Some residue might come off, that's fine. Then oil up with gun oil.

Different solutions vary on the cooking time and the color of park. This recipe gives a good dark color becuse of the manganese dioxide. If you want a lighter color or grey, use less/no mang dioxide. Instead drop in drilled-out pennies for zinc.

[rbernie]

Thank You!! :D

[Shorts]

ya. check out www.homegunsmith.com