Public schools


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jefnvk
June 23, 2005, 04:44 PM
OK, I want to know what the problems with public schools are. I can't believe I am the only person to have gone to a decent public school. I don't remember any 'indoctrination'. Was there liberal views expressed? Sure. But there was also countering conservative views being displayed. Did I have some liberal teachers? Sure. Did I have as many, if not more conservative teachers? Absolutely.

I had a math teacher that had a CCW, and would talk guns with me. I had a biology teacher that was a big time hunter, and would talk about hunting and shooting with the whole class. And, as with society as a whole, I had some teachers that didn't like guns at all. But none of them failed kids for disagreeing with them, as I so often hear accused.

For all other rights issues, as in society, there were teachers that held all sorts of opinions. Some off the wall socialist ideals, some crazy conservatives ideals.

I had two friends that went to private, christian schools, before they had to come to a public school. Both of them were of the opinion that the education they recieved from the public school was vastly greater than anything they could have learned in the church school. I have a cousin who is homeschooled, and she is nowhere near what even a struggling student at her grade level would be in math or science, or pretty much anything but writing and art.

Being in college, at a conservative-leaning technical school, I have seen more 'indoctrinating' that I ever seen at a public school. Back in high school, I can think of only one teacher that could have been described as indoctrinating. At college, I have found that it is much more acceptable for teachers to teach views in classrooms.

In short, I think as with all things, we see one bad story about something, and throw everything of the same in with it and label it as bad. Just as one bad cop does not make all cops bad, one bad gun owner does not make all gun owners bad, one religious fanatic does not make all religious people bad, not all public schools are bad because some have done stupid things.

Do I doubt that bad public schools exist? Absolutely not. I have seen some pretty ratty schools. OTOH, I believe that these schools are in the minority.

Also, I think the argument 'you think that way because you were taught in a public school' gets you nowhere. Anytime anyone says that, I immediately think that they think they are superior to me, for some reason. Also, it sometimes seems to just be an excuse thrown around for incompetence. I have seen it today no less than 7 times, from various boards and threads. Things like a store requiring you to older to buy the ammo than the gun, and to describe students on both side of the flag burning issue.

I encourage comments from the other members that are in or have currently graduated school. I could be way wrong on this issue, and may have been to one of the few schools that aren't a 'gov't indoctrination center'. I could be wrong, and have it turn out to be a regional issue, or maybe even a urban/rural issue.

Opinions? Comments?

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wmenorr67
June 23, 2005, 05:09 PM
At my high school, I had a teacher that would dress up in costume depending on the subject matter being taught. He was a history teacher. For some of his teachings it would not be uncommon for a rifle, musket or some other weapon to be brought in to enhance the lesson. And no one seemed to matter. And I graduated in 1986 from a public school in Kansas City, KS.

Chipperman
June 23, 2005, 05:22 PM
I went to a public grammar school, and a parochial high school. Graduated from HS in 1987.

I had some teachers at both schools that were more "vocal" than others about expressing thier own political views. Those views ran the spectrum, however.

I was not exposed to any sort of "indoctrination" IMO.

JohnBT
June 23, 2005, 05:30 PM
We've had a city school GED teacher using one of our conference rooms twice a week for a class for the past umpteen years.

One day I overheard her tell the class that Democrats care about people and Republicans don't.

Later on I asked her if that was in the textbook and she wouldn't answer me.

John

MechAg94
June 23, 2005, 05:38 PM
I think most of the talk is pointed at specific places where teachers were allowed do things and the administration agreed/allowed it. Or other places where school boards have proposed all sorts of silly stuff. It is hard not to look at the political activities of most teacher's unions see a trend. However, I am sure most teachers are not that militant.

You can also look up a number of publicized cases of schools where kids are dumped on for speaking their mind or wearing the wrong shirt, but I think those are few when considering the number of schools in most states.

I don't think I ever had teacher talk about guns in my small town school. None were openly anti-gun. I did have a few that were very liberal. One that was almost pro-communist. But that was only a few.

To be honest, it is probably more common in colleges, but even that is likely overstated.

DCR
June 23, 2005, 06:31 PM
I'll stack my public school K-12, undergrad and grad school education against all but the most elite in the nation, and I'll come out on top. More options, tougher classes, more lab and library resources, higher educated teachers (math, physics, chemistry, biology, English, Spanish, Gov't, History - all with a minimum of Masters degrees, many from Ivy-league schools) than any private school in the state, and I'm 99% sure the home-schooling parents weren't that academically accomplished. I smoked the ACT's and SAT's, had tons of scholarships, and topped EVERY private or home schooled student in college ( I know, because I was Magna Cum Laude and at the top of my class).

But really, did I succeed because I went to public schools as opposed to private schools? (NO!!!!)

It was my own drive, and supportive (some would say pushy, others would say highly involved) parents that got me where I am. Teachers provided the materials, but my family was my chief influence.

Sorry, folks - teachers aren't babysitters or your personal indoctrinators. They have to manage a bunch of kids of varying (dis)abilities, backgrounds and home lives, all the while catering to the political whims of the local, state and federal government that keeps churning out the same mindless legislation and policy - lately the "no child left standing" act - and we keep electing them. They can't focus only on your kid - they've got 28 others in the classroom, all of whom have as much of a right to their attention and help as your child.

You don't like your kids' public schools? Stand up and do your job as a parent. Read to and with them. Help them with homework. Discuss their subjects. Introduce them to more information and alternative viewpoints. Point out and exercise real-life applications of their lessons (Yes, that really is your job, not their teachers'). Most importantly, though, quit voting for the people or parties at the local, state and federal levels that keep generating the kind of legislation and policies you don't like, even if it means voting for someone of a polical party whose positions on some issues you strongly disagree with. I know I'm getting danged embarassed to be associated with the Republican party as of late.

And no, I'm not a teacher, nor do I play one on TV.

Sorry for the rant; I just hate seeing others (public school teachers, in this case) being blamed for the shortcomings of those who are truly and ultimately responsible.

BTR
June 23, 2005, 06:42 PM
I went to a public school in Alabama, and has some excellent math, biology, English and history teachers... a few that were not as good, but I am still grateful for their instruction. I was well prepared for college. I personally cannot relate to the complaints about poor public schools. :)

Art Eatman
June 23, 2005, 07:00 PM
Subjects like this one are the reason that Oleg set up the other website:

http://www.armedpolitesociety.com

:), Art

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