Tables Turned...Robbery Target Arrested


PDA






jobu07
June 24, 2005, 07:52 AM
http://www.iknowrochester.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=BD8469A1-30E4-4A22-96BB-E63E831651C3

(Rochester, NY) 06/23/05 - A Rochester resident, who ws arrested after a fatal stabbing Thursday, goes to court Friday to face charges of criminally negligent homicide.

Police say Anthony McMurty confronted Marvin Smith, 40, outside his McMurty’s Nellis Park home early Thursday morning. Smith was apparently trying to break into McMurty's car.

When Smith started to walk away, police say McMurty threw a knife at him.

Smith collapsed on Jefferson Avenue and later died.

Well, I don't know what we would call this. A good stabbing instead of shoot? But, yeah, the "threat" was in the process of leaving the scene of the incident and was no longer a threat. So the gentleman in question probably shouldn't have stuck'em with the knife however tempting it was. But still... :uhoh:

If you enjoyed reading about "Tables Turned...Robbery Target Arrested" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
grimjaw
June 24, 2005, 08:58 AM
When Smith started to walk away, police say McMurty threw a knife at him.

'When Smith started to walk away, police say McMurtry called 911. Smith was apprehended after police obtained a description from McMurtry.'
'As Smith walked away, police say McMurtry took several pictures of him. These led to his prosecution.'

I don't see that Smith attacked or threatened McMurtry. Smith threatened property, not health, and he was in the process of leaving. Without further details, looks unjustified to me.

jmm

ID_shooting
June 24, 2005, 09:06 AM
from what we know here, I call it a bad stabbing and the guy should go to jail.

dev_null
June 24, 2005, 11:36 AM
When Smith started to walk away, police say McMurty threw a knife at him.

Smith collapsed on Jefferson Avenue and later died.

Thought that stuff only happened in movies. Must've been one hell of a shot. Throw. Whatever.

pax
June 24, 2005, 11:38 AM
... McMurty threw a knife at him.
"Take my knife. Please!"

pax

Spreadfire Arms
June 24, 2005, 12:06 PM
wow,

i wonder if the guy really knew how to throw a knife as a weapon or simply threw it at him in anger and unintentionally killed him?

either way it would probably be deemed criminally negligent. in today's society even the fleeing felon (if auto burglary is a felony there) has rights..... :confused:

middy
June 24, 2005, 12:06 PM
Not a justified homicide. He should be charged and put in prison.
Nice throw, though. :eek:

jason10mm
June 24, 2005, 04:49 PM
This is when I would have said he was winding up for a spinning jump back kick and I was in fear for my life!!

Heck, even say you were in a scuffle and that's how he got stabbed. So long as CSI ain't on the case, you'd do ok. Of copurse, if there is a large size difference between the two men and the burglar was within 21 feet, it could still be considered justified if threats were made.

Hypnogator
June 24, 2005, 07:25 PM
I always taught officers that a thrown knife represented danger of death or serious bodily injury for defensive shooting purposes, but went on to tell them I'd never heard of anyone ever actually being killed with a thrown knife. I stand corrected! :eek:

Warren
June 24, 2005, 08:32 PM
Am I supposed to care about a dead thief?

Straight up I would not vote to convict.

MICHAEL T
June 24, 2005, 11:06 PM
A thief is dead. He won't steal again or take up space in jail Give the thrower a medal and let him go.

MechAg94
June 25, 2005, 12:25 AM
By the letter of the law, it appears unjustified.

What I would do as a member of a jury is another matter.

Camel
June 25, 2005, 02:01 AM
I don't get the sympathy for this guy. Isn't this exactly the kind of thing we don't need when we're trying to project an image of responsible self defence? This guy not only grabbed a weapon and confronted someone who wasn't threatening him, he then killed the crook after the crook attempted to de-escalate the situation.

One guy is a bad car thief and the other guy is some loon who throws knives at people. I know who I'd rather see in jail.

nico
June 25, 2005, 02:10 AM
This guy not only grabbed a weapon and confronted someone who wasn't threatening him, he then killed the crook after the crook attempted to de-escalate the situation.
de-escalate the situation!?!? Are you serious?! That sure is a peachy way of describing a fleeing felon. :rolleyes: Maybe he shouldn't have escalated the situation in the first place by trying to break into someone's car. I have no sympathy for the theif, but it was a stupid thing to do legally.

Camel
June 25, 2005, 02:18 AM
de-escalate the situation!?!? Are you serious?! That sure is a peachy way of describing a fleeing felon. Maybe he shouldn't have escalated the situation in the first place by trying to break into someone's car.
Last I checked walking away counted as de-escalation. In fact, I can't figure how any act could de-escalate a situation more. I'm not defending the robber but I still think the knife thrower needs to spend some time away from society. I mean seriously, who throws knives? If you saw some guy breaking into your car would your first thought be "I need to go throw a knife at that jerk!"?

nico
June 25, 2005, 02:23 AM
no, walking away from a felony you just committed is fleeing.

peacefuljeffrey
June 25, 2005, 02:45 AM
By the letter of the law, it appears unjustified.

What I would do as a member of a jury is another matter.

Well, we can only hope that if we were on the jury, we would be INFORMED of the actions (criminally directed) of the decedent. They do weird things in court regarding letting the jury know about people's past actions.

I wonder if the thrower's defense attorney will be allowed to introduce evidence that the decedent was attempting to steal from the defendant.

After all, he was not convicted of that. Maybe they won't be allowed to tell the jury. So... how would we know that there was good reason to return an acquittal?

-Jeffrey

peacefuljeffrey
June 25, 2005, 02:49 AM
One guy is a bad car thief and the other guy is some loon who throws knives at people. I know who I'd rather see in jail.

I presume you mean you want the knife thrower in jail if it were a choice between him and the car thief. :rolleyes:

You'd rather imprison a guy who probably would never have harmed anyone if that someone hadn't come around looking for trouble in the first place? :banghead:

Maybe this is a guy who's just scraping by, and his car's been broken into several times in the last year, and cost him lots of money he can't easily spare to repair the damage and replace stolen property, and he was really fed up -- the same way YOU would be if you were in his position...

-Jeffrey

David W. Gay
June 25, 2005, 03:01 AM
Why is crime so rampant? (Besides the fact that most people are unarmed, that is.) Because criminals are allowed to "de-escalate the situation", and mearly walk away.
They realize that the way our society works, they have more rights than their victims.

This one, at least, met a more deserving fate...

Sunray
June 25, 2005, 03:07 AM
"...McMurty threw a knife at him..." Easy. No threat of imminent harm to you or your's is manslaughter, or whatever it's called where you are. Plain and simple. You can't kill a guy for taking your tv.
"...was attempting to steal from the defendant...." Irrelevant. Attempted theft is not a capital offence. Nor is theft. Killing a thief who is not an immediate violent threat to you or your's is murder. Period.

David W. Gay
June 25, 2005, 03:39 AM
The mere act of attempting to steal something from a person implies a use of force in order to get the victim to comply, even if the tool or method of force/compliance is nothing more than the criminals hands. Hands can kill.

Try to steal, and you might get killed. Period.

To bad for the thief.

Good job on the part of his intended victim.

nico
June 25, 2005, 09:06 AM
Just I'm clear, I'm not saying the guy was justified, right, or that he shouldn't be punished. That being said, I'm amazed that people feel sorry for the theif.

JohnKSa
June 25, 2005, 10:58 PM
Your Honor,

As Mr. Smith was leaving, I realized that I still had my knife. Since I had told him that I gave him everything, I felt guilty. I shouted to him and when he didn't respond, I tossed the knife toward him anyway to ease my conscience... :D

Camel
June 26, 2005, 01:20 AM
I'm actually a little surprised by everyone with the "Self defense means kill fleeing criminals" mindset.

In defense of my position. I'm not the police, nor am I Batman or John Wayne. It isn't my job to grab my cowboy hat and cape and go chasing after criminals. If I see some dirtbag trying to steal my car I'm going to call the cops, then inform the dirtbag that the police are coming. I'm not going to go running out to my driveway to start an armed confrontation, and I'm certainly not going to run out and throw a knife at anybody for the crime of attempted burglary.

It's this kind of stuff that fuels all the "blood in the streets" BS we hear from the antis.

artherd
June 26, 2005, 04:36 PM
I observed him robbing my car, at which time I placed him under Citizen's Arrest.

He subsequently attempted to escape, at which time I used reasonable force to detain him at the scene.

DMF
June 26, 2005, 04:47 PM
I always taught officers that a thrown knife represented danger of death or serious bodily injury for defensive shooting purposes, but went on to tell them I'd never heard of anyone ever actually being killed with a thrown knife. I stand corrected! There's a book out with accounts of actual lethal force incidents involving cops called "Into the Kill Zone." One of the stories involves a lady on DV call who threw a knife at a cop (IIRC it was 30 or 40 feet), and hit him in the head, with the knife sticking straight into his forehead. He lived, but the docs told him if the knife had penetrated another 1/16th of an inch he would have likely died or suffered permanent disability. Later in his career he killed a male suspect on a DV call that brought out a knife.

fjolnirsson
June 26, 2005, 05:27 PM
Attempted theft is not a capital offence.


Imo, auto theft should be a capital crime, ala horse thievery. In today's world, if you take a man's car, you've harmed his livelihood, and taken money from the mouth's of his children.
Was it right? Not if you base what's "right" on the law. Morally, yes. If I catch a man trying to steal a piece of my life from me, I'll be hard pressed to make the "right" decision, and not shoot him. Criminals, in all cases, should be in fear for their lives from honest citizens. Instead, we have what is referred to as the "criminal justice system". Know why it's called that? Because the criminals get the "justice". Not the citizens.

Hardtarget
June 26, 2005, 11:56 PM
It really steams me when the comment is "its only property" comes up. To get that property you trade off a good ammount of your life. I've never gotten a check in the mail just because I needed it. My work is more than 40 hours per week...and the boss expects me to be there. Little over a year ago a local punk decided he wanted the radio out of my truck so he broke a window and stole a $150 radio. Problem is the window is $700!Tell me the punk didn't deserve to be shot. So the guy threw a knife...so the thief died...so what. He will not be missed by his victims. He chose the way to live his life...probably knew he would die if he didn't change...it just caught up with him.
Mark.

zahc
June 27, 2005, 12:11 AM
Another of the opinion that, if the story is as presented, the attempted robber got what he deserved. No sympathy.

Also agree it was a dumb thing to do legally and I don't like that aspect of the legal system so much. If people were allowed to, heaven forbid, use force to protect the stuff that is theirs, maybe this guy wouldn't have tried to steal the car, he would still be alive, and everything would be grand.

Warren
June 27, 2005, 03:06 AM
I would also apply the same standard to taggers.

zahc
June 28, 2005, 12:12 PM
Do you mean graffiti artists? I agree. There wouldn't me as much graffiti if that was the case would there? What disadvantage would there be to that?

An armed society is a polite society.

If you enjoyed reading about "Tables Turned...Robbery Target Arrested" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!