Laws pertaining to silencer ownership


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45er
June 24, 2005, 04:10 PM
Greetings All,
I own what I consider to be a fairly impressive gun collection, all quite legal. I would like to know all the advantages and drawbacks of applying for a class III license, as a collector not a dealer. I am not really interested in owning a machine gun. In my opinion, outside of military and law enforcement they seem pretty useless. I have, on the other hand always desired a silencer. No more complaints from the neighbors about the noise, no more traumatizing my noise sensitive dogs, not to mention my wife and they are just so cool. Could someone direct me to the literature that applies to acquiring a federal class III license. I would be very grateful.
Kindest regards
45er

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Henry Bowman
June 24, 2005, 04:18 PM
Start here (http://www.titleii.com/) . For your stated purposes, you are looking at simply going through the paperwork deal and paying the $200 tax on each one.

rock jock
June 24, 2005, 04:34 PM
Critical, absolutely critical, is to fist find out if they legal in your state, in your county, and if the local CLEO will sign off. If not, there is the corporation route, but that is a little extra money.

I bought a Gemtech Halo in February and have yet to lay eyes on it.

thorn726
June 24, 2005, 04:43 PM
I bought a Gemtech Halo in February and have yet to lay eyes on it.

ok i see this kind of stuff a lot- so what is going on?
is the silencer sitting in a room somewhere waiting for someone to sign a form so you cna get it?
has it even left wherever you paid for it?/

and what makes it take so long? is there a line of people ahead of you, or do they just make you wait for no real reason at all?

SIOP
June 24, 2005, 04:56 PM
First off, there is no such thing as a "class III license." You must first have a type 01 FFL, and if you aren't going to be a dealer in firearms the feds won't grant you a type 01 FFL. If you lie and tell them you are going to be a dealer but then don't show any transactions, they won't renew your license. Once you have a type 01 FFL, you can then apply for a class III SOT, which allows you to transfer NFA items without paying the transfer tax. But a class III SOT ain't cheap (I think the least expensive one is around $500) and that's on top of the money you'll shell out to get a type 01 FFL. If all you want is a few silencers, you'd be better off just paying the transfer tax on them.

Dan

rock jock
June 24, 2005, 05:23 PM
ok i see this kind of stuff a lot- so what is going on?
is the silencer sitting in a room somewhere waiting for someone to sign a form so you cna get it?
has it even left wherever you paid for it?/

and what makes it take so long? is there a line of people ahead of you, or do they just make you wait for no real reason at all?
6 weeks for dealer to receive HALO from Gemtech
8 weeks to explain to Sheriff Num-Nuts about the silencer, then have him refuse to return phone calls either personally or through his secretary (real professional of him), then consider signing paperwork and then refuse
3 weeks to send paperwork (and check for $200) to State of Texas to create a LLC
2 weeks to send LLC paperwork to dealer, who then fills out new applicatin paperwork with the LLC name instead of my own personal name

I just sent the new application to the ATF this week, so I am looking at another 4-6 week to receive approval.

At this point, I am pretty much at the point where I wish I never began this process, especially when the cost of this silencer is going to run me right around $1150.

Spreadfire Arms
June 24, 2005, 06:00 PM
SIOP wrote:

Once you have a type 01 FFL, you can then apply for a class III SOT, which allows you to transfer NFA items without paying the transfer tax.

For clarification you only get tax exempt transfers if:

1. both parties involved (transferor and transferee) are both SOT's - Form 3
2. the item is being transferred to/from a police agency - Form 5

if you purchase from a private party who is not an SOT there is a $200 tax.

wdlsguy
June 24, 2005, 06:04 PM
3 weeks to send paperwork (and check for $200) to State of Texas to create a LLC

I am thinking of forming a Texas LLC as well. Are there any gotchas to consider?

Spreadfire Arms
June 24, 2005, 06:23 PM
you can incorporate online at the Texas Secretary of State's webpage:

http://www.sos.state.tx.us/

wdlsguy
June 24, 2005, 06:39 PM
you can incorporate online at the Texas Secretary of State's webpage

The hardest part (other than writing the check for $200) is coming up with a name. What did you all do?

rock jock
June 24, 2005, 06:43 PM
I am thinking of forming a Texas LLC as well. Are there any gotchas to consider? No. Plenty of positives, like I will never need to go thru the BS I did with Sheriff Num-Nuts again.

The hardest part (other than writing the check for $200) is coming up with a name. What did you all do?
Rock's Investments, or something like that.

Spreadfire Arms
June 24, 2005, 06:46 PM
normally it is your last name, LLC.

like if yourself and three of your buddies incorporate together:

Smith, Jones, Wilson, and Johnson LLC

Or just your name:

Johnson LLC

you can split the cost of the incorporation fees with a few gun buddies and you can then swap the NFA items between yourselves and all of you avoid the CLEO signoff.

cool huh?

boofus
June 24, 2005, 07:02 PM
It's a little extra paperwork if you have more than 1 member in the LLC, you gotta get an Employer ID number and file a form 1065 with the IRS and a Schedule K for every member at tax time. But it does have little perks. I sold my M10/9 to my friend who is in the LLC too. He just wrote me the check and I handed over the SMG.

No background check, no $200 tax, no waiting around since technically the gun is still owned by the same entity --> the corporation.

wdlsguy
June 24, 2005, 08:18 PM
It's a little extra paperwork if you have more than 1 member in the LLC, you gotta get an Employer ID number and file a form 1065 with the IRS and a Schedule K for every member at tax time.

"Please note that under the provisions of the Texas Tax Code, a limited liability company is subject to state franchise tax."
(http://www.sos.state.tx.us/corp/forms/205.pdf)

What does this involve?

boofus
June 24, 2005, 08:48 PM
The franchise tax is no sweat. There is shorter tax form specifically for LLCs that have no revenue. You just check the box that says my company earned $0 in TX and $0 outside of TX and sign it and send it off.

I guess if you actually do business with your LLC it may be a bit more complicated. I dunno cause my LLC is for NFA goodies only.

wdlsguy
June 24, 2005, 09:36 PM
Is a revocable living trust a reasonable alternative to an LLC?

Jmurman
June 24, 2005, 09:49 PM
I bought a Ruger MK3 last week. As I was filling out the forms I noticed a Ruger MK2 with silencer.

I ask about that beauty...first of all, you buy the weapon and it goes into a safe. THEN you go have the police photo and fingerprint you, at you r cost of course, then the paperwork goes to ATF.

The complete wait is anywhere from 4-9 MONTHS! all the while your weapon is sitting in a safe.

Bubbles
June 25, 2005, 06:10 PM
I would like to know all the advantages and drawbacks of applying for a class III license, as a collector not a dealer.
There's no such thing as a Federal Class III "collector" license. Some states do have their own registration requirements separate from the Federal NFA laws.

I am not really interested in owning a machine gun.
Good, because you'd have to move to a different state. NC all but prohibits private ownership of machine guns.

I'd suggest reading James Bardwell's FAQ on NFA Firearms (http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/nfa_faq.txt) - much of the info on machine guns (e.g. how to legally own, transport, and transfer them) also applies to suppressors. There's also a section near the end on owning NFA stuff in North Carolina. You'll have to look very closely at your state's laws to see if you're even permitted to own a suppressor.

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