Peasants fighting back in rural China


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Justin
June 24, 2005, 08:19 PM
The Globe and Mail via Reason Online's Hit & Run blog:


Peasants fighting back in rural China
As land-dispute battles grow, a farmer tapes a deadly clash on video, GEOFFREY YORK writes

By GEOFFREY YORK

Saturday, June 18, 2005 Page A13

BEIJING -- For the second time in recent weeks, Chinese peasants have emerged victorious from violent clashes sparked by protests against government land-development schemes.

Article Here:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20050618/CHINA18/TPInternational/TopStories

Video Here:
http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2673428?htv=12

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R.H. Lee
June 24, 2005, 08:21 PM
Fast forward 20 years in the U.S. Chillingly prophetic?????

The video's so grainy I can't tell who's who, but it sounds like the government is using heavy artillery. I hope we're better organized. :uhoh:

LAR-15
June 24, 2005, 08:26 PM
The Chinese are basically disarmed.

A hoe is not an ideal weapon against guns.

hifi
June 24, 2005, 08:44 PM
The Chinese are basically disarmed.

A hoe is not an ideal weapon against guns.

Yes, but if they emerged victorious as was mentioned above, then apparently it was enough to get the job done. So much for the "you can't fight the government because they have such powerful weapons arguement."

It also takes some pretty hardcore and brainwashed government soldiers to fight their own countrymen.

LAR-15
June 24, 2005, 08:45 PM
The Chinese definitely have some of those.

hifi
June 24, 2005, 08:50 PM
The Chinese definitely have some of those.

The military and mass media is doing their best to ensure that we have some as well. You should see some of the videogames nowadays. U.S. militiamen as the 'enemy' or 'terrorists'. Condititioning kids that BillyBob with his AR-15 is the enemy.

Urban warfare training for the military. The conditioning is everywhere.

pax
June 24, 2005, 09:58 PM
I am reminded of something Jeff Cooper wrote awhile back: It is interesting to hear certain kinds of people insist that the citizen cannot fight the government. This would have been news to the men of Lexington and Concord, as well as the Mujahedeen in Afghanistan. -- Jeff Cooper

pax

The best defense against a usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry. -- Bill Buckley

beerslurpy
June 24, 2005, 10:01 PM
Heh, when one side has more peasants than the other side has bullets, the hoe is a pretty effective weapon. You would think the Chinese Army would understand the military tactic they are credited with inventing.

I didnt hear artillery, maybe tear case or some sort of rifle in the distance. Not sure. Someone brought gasoline I'm guessing, because that was one hell of a fire.

By the way, just as many proles play first person shooters as military people. Actually I would bet that most players arent in the government, just by sheer volume of numbers. I think marines are already trained to follow orders and kill without hesitation, so having such things available to the general public is a good thing if the exrement ever hits the air circulator. It will actually even things out quite a bit.

I also suspect that most marines have some inkling of what they are fighting for and would rightly hesitate to kill americans and tread upon the constitution, both of which they swore to protect and uphold.

TrybalRage
June 24, 2005, 10:03 PM
As soon as the first soldier with a gun gets his head bashed in with a hoe, the scales tip a bit.

beerslurpy
June 24, 2005, 10:22 PM
Wow I really dig those chinese peasants. For guys only armed with balls and pitchforks, they really are fighting the good fight.

Actually, based on what I have been reading about 4th gen warfare, they are engaging in textbook media manipulation as practiced by the palestinians in Intafada I. Note that the chinese media continues to report sympathetically about the farmers and the government continues to vary between ineffectively attacking them and making concessions.

Good work chinese peasants!

Joejojoba111
June 24, 2005, 10:33 PM
Wait wait wait, so you're telling me that right now Chinese peasants are fighting for and winning rights and freedoms? While over here...

Standing Wolf
June 24, 2005, 10:38 PM
The guerillas almost always win.

Sindawe
June 24, 2005, 10:40 PM
Wait wait wait, so you're telling me that right now Chinese peasants are fighting for and winning rights and freedoms? While over here... Fate, it would seem, is not without a cruel sense of irony....

Joejojoba111
June 24, 2005, 10:48 PM
:fire: And as this is happening there's a thread called ' High Court Rules Gov'ts Can Seize Property'. This is too f'd up to believe, China peasants fighting the good fight and winning in the media, and in the gov't decisions, over big business. And then America... Well at least there won't be a shortage of shopping malls. :fire:

Bruce H
June 24, 2005, 10:52 PM
So lets get hoes, sombreros, and serapes. We arrive in D.C. They will think we are just gardeners until too late.

beerslurpy
June 24, 2005, 10:53 PM
Well at least there won't be a shortage of shopping malls.

... to burn down. There is a TON of outrage over this everywhere I look. Totally apolitical people are saying how they want to get involved now. On the rock station on the way to work, which is usually all rock no talk, the guy suddenly butted in with how "you are just renting your house from the government until they decide to take it" and I was like "holy crap, did I just hear the ghost of badnarik?"

I dont think this eminent domain thing is over just yet.

hifi
June 24, 2005, 10:54 PM
Well at least there won't be a shortage of shopping malls...

.....selling Chinese goods..

I dont think this eminent domain thing is over just yet.

Don't worry, it'll be forgotten in a week and we'll be talking about the latest "outrage".

Too Many Choices!?
June 24, 2005, 10:55 PM
Yeah that's what happens when you have nothing left to lose, as those Chinese men and women...

While here, in the land of the soccer moms,Hollywood and MTV(no offense intended), nobody bats an eye(or dumps a bag of refer into the harbor :)) at the recent suspect high court rulings! The Founders just rolled over in their graves :cuss: !

I sometimes think that people over here want to be ruled over,there's alot less thinking involved :( !...

joab
June 24, 2005, 10:57 PM
As soon as the first soldier with a gun gets his head bashed in with a hoe, the scales tip a bit. When I was in the army I got pinched for the riot control squad.
The instructor, a friend of mine, told me that the hardest part of the training was training us soldiers that the rioters were Americans and not our enemies and unteaching the he who stands before you is your enemy mentality that we had ingrained since BCT.

My feeling was that the guys on the line were my friends and brothers, guy's that I slept in the mud with and spent days in foxholes with on EDREs, guy's who's names I knew. Unlike these miscreants who would be keeping me from 6 hours in a warm bed.

The first one that got hit in the head with a hoe would have been the catalyst for an all out battle.

The washout rate for riot control was pretty high overt aggression was weeded out. I was one of the failures and I was a pacifist compared to most of the guys I served with.

The military wont be screening for compassion when it comes to put down a rebellion

KriegHund
June 24, 2005, 11:08 PM
Theres rebels in the high mountains of china are fighting with muskets from the napeoolonic wars.

Joejojoba111
June 24, 2005, 11:13 PM
To clarify, in that article they said the 'strike breakers' were not Army, but 'thugs', who also had improvised weapons. Only their improvised weapons had bigger and sharper blades. One or two shotguns were present, too, but you can guess it's a model which is slow to reload.

And when you have the military doing riot control in American cities, that'd be the time to wake up and realize it ain't America anymore! Lol.

"I sometimes think that people over here want to be ruled over,there's alot less thinking involved !..."

I sometimes think that TV and Video games make it possible to ignore reality a little too easily. Creature comforts make the creatures soft. And like an addict for opium, they'll say do or ignore almost anything to keep the comfort.

And I don't see this going very far in the mainstream media either. Media companies themselves are big companies, no doubt. But they're usually owned by bigger companies, and those bigger companies are often somewhat controlled by giant giant money firms, who do nothing but move money around from this to that and that to the other. So there is no-one at all involved in controlling the media companies that would benefit from this decision receiving persistent bad-press.


Hey guys, do you still want a decisive case to go to the Sup Crt on the 2nd amendment? You bet your ass you don't, looks like they can over-rule the constitution no matter how clearly it's written.

beerslurpy
June 24, 2005, 11:21 PM
I think you guys mistake the type of rebellion that would happen, if any did. Think 4g warfare here. The whole goal is to take away their will to fight. If Americans just went on strike and refused to work, that would probably be 10x more effective than any armed insurrection.

Oh you want tax money? Too bad.

If there is an armed insurrection, it will be strictly low grade, nothing to provoke a meaningful reaction on the part of government. OK City was stupid for the same reason that 9/11 was. It actually focused the government's attention on fixing the problem rather than letting it be a continuous low grade annoyance like a mosquito.

The US militia movement was actually stirring up a lot of effective trouble before the post OK City crackdown. How many think the 93 brady and 94 AWB were reactions to Waco and Ruby Ridge and the related right wing anarcho-libertarian activism? In the sense that the Democrats got kicked out of power, it was a huge misstep they were provoked into, dont you think?

jefnvk
June 25, 2005, 12:37 AM
You should see some of the videogames nowadays. U.S. militiamen as the 'enemy' or 'terrorists'. Condititioning kids that BillyBob with his AR-15 is the enemy. Examples, please? I play plenty of video games. Never have I seen where I could crush a rebellion of the American people. Vietnamese, Japanese, Germans, Iraqis, Russians, Chinese, sure, but never American militiamen.

joab
June 25, 2005, 12:44 AM
And when you have the military doing riot control in American cities, that'd be the time to wake up and realize it ain't America anymore! Then we should have woke up many, many years ago. Anybody here remember the 60's?

beerslurpy
June 25, 2005, 12:53 AM
I remember that SWAT3 had a raid on white supremacists or a milita, but that game was years ago, and the overriding theme of the game was just interesting LE tactical situations. It was just one of many missions.

Skunkabilly
June 28, 2005, 08:59 PM
It also takes some pretty hardcore and brainwashed government soldiers to fight their own countrymen.

Not really. China is a big country and very diverse and not everyone really gets along.

Joejojoba111
June 28, 2005, 09:43 PM
Especially when the people attacking the farmers are hired for their willingness to attack the farmers... You can always find then in any country in any time.

Skunkabilly
June 29, 2005, 04:05 PM
Especially when the people attacking the farmers are hired for their willingness to attack the farmers... You can always find then in any country in any time.

Hired? I didn't read the article since I didn't want to register, but my impression was military service was mandatory?

El Tejon
June 29, 2005, 04:19 PM
Same stuff used to happen in the Evil Empire before it fell. NKVD/KGB units used to have attached artillery and IFVs/AFVs, not to fight the running dog capitalists but their own subjects.

Skunky, may not be PLA (I would speculate if PLA no one would be left alive). May be the hired thugee units of the CPPRC brought in from other areas. Like you said, all is not puppy dogs and rainbows between different peoples of PRC. :uhoh:

Skunkabilly
June 29, 2005, 06:19 PM
El T, I thought all Chinese people were the same? :evil:

What thug units? I was brought up with anything wearing green and red star is not to be trusted...PLA conscript or state security or customs agent.

Skunky
[of the rice and banjopickin' variety from the Pearl River delta...reeehawww!]

odysseus
June 29, 2005, 07:29 PM
Not really. China is a big country and very diverse and not everyone really gets along.

You can say that again. I think I can echo Skunk's premise here. China is very diverse; from the northwest regions to the southeast you have a wide amount of history, culture, language, and wealth. Outside of the cities, it can be a very different place. Chinese here in the US come from even diverse backgrounds. I think people should consider traveling there... if you are the traveling type. Also makes you value more the liberties we have here in the USA.

Many Chinese US side don't care for communists. Myself included.

Skunkabilly
June 30, 2005, 11:24 AM
Many Chinese US side don't care for communists. Myself included.

Yeah, else we woulda stayed huh? ;) Grampa reaved on a jet prane back in 1947 or so. Actually it was a prop job.

lunaslide
June 30, 2005, 12:30 PM
And when you have the military doing riot control in American cities, that'd be the time to wake up and realize it ain't America anymore!
Then we should have woke up many, many years ago. Anybody here remember the 60's?
You don't even have to look back that far. The reserve was called in during the LA riots. That was one time when I said to hell with the CCW laws in CA.

One of the most amusing stories I heard out of that episode was that the LAPD guys asked the Marines to "cover them" as they went to a building. So of course some guy takes a shot at the cops and the Marines opened fire. They had not explained that "cover" meant being prepared to shoot someone if they presented a threat, not laying down cover fire like in a combat situation. :p

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