I'll be at the GLBT Pride Festival this weekend...


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Andrew Rothman
June 25, 2005, 02:39 AM
(crossposted from my blog (http://www.livejournal.com/users/mattpayne/))

...to spend some time with the Pink Pistols (http://www.pinkpistolstc.org), work the booth, watch the parade and meet people.

No, incidentally, I'm not gay. (Everybody together now: "NOT THAT THERE'S ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT!" Thank you.)

I am what used to be known around here as a "civilized straight" -- basically a non-jerk toward folks who don't happen to share my sexual orientation.

So why am I going? `Cause I love the idea of the Pink Pistols. They say, in effect, we are a group that often gets picked on and bashed, and we're not going to tolerate that any more. We recognize our own value as individuals and will not let someone take that away.

They also have some neat slogans, like "Armed Gays Bash Back" and "Pick on Someone Your Own Caliber" and the one on my brand spankin' new t-shirt:

http://pinkpistolstc.org/tshirt1.jpg

Oh, but guys? Didya have to choose black for the t-shirt? I mean, it's gonna be HOT out there.

I know, I know. Black is slimming. Come to think of it, so is perspiring to death.

Oh, well. At least I'll look fabulous.

Feel free to come out (heh) and say hi. I'll be there all afternoon Sunday.

Links:
http://www.tcpride.org/
http://pinkpistolstc.org/

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BlackCat
June 25, 2005, 02:55 AM
Incidentally, I'm starting a club for straight shooters. I'm still working on a name.

Hawken50
June 25, 2005, 02:57 AM
At least I'll look fabulous

don't you mean "Faaaaaabulous" :D



think anybody makes an "I'm not blind, I just shoot like it." shirt. i could use one of those.

Andrew Rothman
June 25, 2005, 03:03 AM
don't you mean "Faaaaaabulous" :D

The extended "a" is understood from context. :neener:

cslinger
June 25, 2005, 03:18 AM
As far as I am concerned I don't care what folks do in their own private lives as long as it doesn't hurt me or other folks. You wanna roll around in green jello and have sex with a goat while smoking a doobie.......you have at it, just try to keep the noise down after 10.

The more legal, responsible shooters we win over to our side the better no matter what their orientation is.

Now playing for the "other team" really isn't for me personally but like I said your business is your business, none of mine.

Chris

50 Freak
June 25, 2005, 04:28 AM
At the end of the road, everyman stands before the big guy and has to explain himself. No one else is with him so how he lived his life is between him and his maker. No one elses business.

I'm glad the Pink Pistols are pro 2nd amendment. At least the anti's can't say gays are against us too. Every bit helps in our cause.

1911 guy
June 25, 2005, 04:43 AM
I agree with what's posted here so far. I personally disagree with the gay lifestyle, but everybody has the right to make their own choices. One side bashing the other accomplishes nothing. Good for the Pink Pistols for standing up for Second Ammendment rights in a culture that seems to be predominantly anti.

fistful
June 25, 2005, 10:38 AM
a "civilized straight" -- basically a non-jerk toward folks who don't happen to share my sexual orientation.Hey, me too! Even when I was protesting homosexual marriage last summer.


looking forward to the Fundamentalist Christian Pride Parade,
fistful

dk-corriveau
June 25, 2005, 11:39 AM
Matt,

I think that is a great organization. I wish I could get some of my gay friends (and my wife for that matter) to take up arms, both for their own protection and to expand our sport.

dfaugh
June 25, 2005, 11:48 AM
is that the Pink Pistols are getting more "ink" for Second Amendment rights than almost anyone else right now. BECAUSE they are gay...Tells you something about our media, in that minorities (any minority) gets more time with media coverage than they would otherwise!

More power to 'em, for standing up for a cause!

Biker
June 25, 2005, 12:06 PM
If there's a pro-gun lesbian club, I wanna join.
Biker

Marshall
June 25, 2005, 12:24 PM
Hmmm......well.......guess I'm just too red around the neck to agree. The whole gun thing is not going to live or die because of gays with pink pistols wearing tutu's. Besides, I don't want my future grandkids to have to be made to read books in school like "My other daddy" and be taught that's an OK way of life. Oh yea, not that there's anything wrong with that. :rolleyes:

The_Antibubba
June 25, 2005, 12:28 PM
I belong to the Pink Pistols group in Sacramento. If you thing most regular liberals are hoplophobes, you should see the gay community. At the San Fran Pride event this weekend, the Pink Pistols are one of the biggest controversies. They are trying to prevent the PP from wearing empty holsters! They're issuing all sorts of warnings against weapons (as if you can carry in SF anyway)-heck, they don't even want PP to carry signs. Meanwhile, the BDSM crowd is wildly cheered. :confused:

I'm wondering if there is some sort of correllation between the degree of a group's oppression and their later opposition to firearms? Three examples:

1. The African-American Community-After centuries of slavery and discrimination, their "leaders" call for gun control-because of the rate of black on Black crime-for their own good.

2. Jews-Sixty years after the Holocaust, we cry out "NEVER AGAIN!" but are some of the most ardent supporters of gun control. Notable exceptions exist, like JPFO. Israeli Jews, who's lives are constantly threatened by "enemies foreign and domestic", are also well-armed. Of course.

3. Gays-The same people who were being beaten by the cops not 25 years ago now vehemently urge their own people not to arm themselves, and let the police handle it.


Comments are welcome.

Andrew Rothman
June 25, 2005, 12:31 PM
Marshall, remember what your mom said about, "If you have nothing nice to say"?

Ten Pink Pistols have more political impact than a hundred rednecks with guns.

Even if you can't open your mind to the idea that your religious beliefs are not natural law, at least acknowledge the political benefit and keep your bigotry to yourself for the sake of a greater good.

And knock off the obnoxious stereotypes. I've never seen even one Pink Pistols member (male or female) in a tutu -- not that there's anything wrong with that! :neener:

Andrew Rothman
June 25, 2005, 12:34 PM
I'm wondering if there is some sort of correllation between the degree of a group's oppression and their later opposition to firearms?

Well, sure! Boldly flying in the face of that correlation is why I'm a straight, Jewish Pink Pistol member.

Maybe I should join the NAACP, too? :D

thereisnospoon
June 25, 2005, 12:36 PM
I'm with Biker (just don't tell my wife ;) )

Black Cat....here's an idea for the name of a gruiop of straight shooters...
How about ...


"STRAIGHT SHOOTERS"

\Sorry couldn't resist :evil:

JamisJockey
June 25, 2005, 12:39 PM
Alot of you are missing the point of the Pink Pistols. What you've got is an oppressed minority group who's standing up and taking responsibility for thier own self preservation. That is what should be applauded. More personal responsibility, less police.

Onmilo
June 25, 2005, 12:45 PM
My neck of the woods is way too rural for pride parades and gay bookstores but I believe every law abiding citizen has the right, not priviledge, to own a firearm so they choose.
Consequently there is a pink pistol memebership card somewhere in the house.
It makes my wife chuckle every time she sees it.

Marshall
June 25, 2005, 12:50 PM
Ten Pink Pistols have more political impact than a hundred rednecks with guns.

Yea, that's what concerns me. :rolleyes:

Matthew748
June 25, 2005, 12:52 PM
Any pro gun group is OK by me. I have read about this group and their presence seems like a good thing, since it goes against the stereotypes most of society holds regarding gun owners. In general, I don’t have anything to do with groups or organizations formed around religion, race, sexuality, or age, etc. but that’s just me.

Tom Servo
June 25, 2005, 01:23 PM
"A BLACK holster with BROWN shoes?!? Ohmigod!!!! Faux paus!"

That's a quote. Late '90s, midtown Atlanta. If there's ever a town that needs an organization like Pink Pistols, Atlanta's it. I lived/worked there long enough around the gay "community" to know that, like many liberals, they are some of the most elitist, snobbish and lockstep-conformist people I've ever met. Anyone who's not gay is a "redneck" or a "homophobe." I've known quite a few respectable folks who were gay, and they all got the heck out of Atlanta first chance they got.

I understand it's a good party town, though. That said, Atlanta touts itself as the "gay Mecca" for the Southeast. Every now and then, there are "rallies" for some hazily-defined "rights," but from what I've seen, no agenda or progress ever gets made. I went to one with a couple of friends, and there were two very loud, ill-informed and emotional speeches (one of which mentioned "getting guns off the streets"), then when people got bored, they started debating whether the community as a whole should endorse barebacking (look it up).

That said, Atlanta is seeing another upsurge in violent crime lately, particularly among/against minorities and gays. In both communities, you have pet politicians spoon-feeding the mentality that guns are bad...why would you want one of those? while crusading for criminals' rights over those of victims. We need folks like the Pink Pistols and Ken Blanchard to come down here and talk some sense into somebody...

Deavis
June 25, 2005, 01:33 PM
Besides, I don't want my future grandkids to have to be made to read books in school like "My other daddy" and be taught that's an OK way of life. Oh yea, not that there's anything wrong with that.

Homeschool your kids then or send them to private school if you don't want them to be exposed to that. Lobby for vouchers so that you can get your hard-earned money back and send your kids to a school with a curriculum you agree with. It is your right to educate your kids as you see fit but a public school is going to reflect public values and blaming the Pink Pistols for that is ridiculous.

Whether you like it or not, your kids will be exposed to the homosexual culture just like they are exposed to weapons and sex. I'm sure you, as a responsible parent, have taught your kids how to handle guns and sex in a mature and responsible manner... why not teach them how to handle homosexuality in a responsible manner? Then, heaven forbid, let your children/grandchildren decide if they think it is okay.

My grandmother can't understand how I can be friends with "those lazy good for nothing ******s" and you know what? I'm glad I don't have the same values as my grandparents because being a bigot is always wrong whether you are referring to race, relegion, or sexual orientation. I can thank my parents not some diversity class in school for teaching me that. Change can be a good thing.

The more "pink ink" that newspapers print, the better. That group of shooters can help fight stereotypes in a much more effective way than any straight white shooter ever could.

Spreadfire Arms
June 25, 2005, 01:37 PM
im surprised there isn't a Pink Pistols group in Austin. Austin is a very pro-gay city, especially being the state capitol.

for the record i have absolutely NOTHING against gays. i grew up in the SF Bay Area and went to school and graduated from U.C. Berkeley. i don't subscribe to their lifestyle but i have nothing against them either.

if there was a Pink Pistols group in Austin and they invited me to do business with their group, i see no reason why i shouldn't, unless they aren't able to pass a NICS check.

and yes, gays are generally more politically active, even than us gun owners. to have them on the pro-2A side is actually good. it also breaks the stereotype of the far left that gun owners are nothing more than a bunch of rednecks, racists, etc.

in fact i think if some idiot tried to 'gay-bash' a homosexual and that homosexual was CHL'd and armed and shot the BG in self-defense, i think it would actually bolster the reasons FOR CHL in states that don't allow it (thinking about California.....)

jem375
June 25, 2005, 01:53 PM
I agree with Marshall.........

Marshall
June 25, 2005, 02:03 PM
Erik F,

I agree 100% with 99% of what you said. I don't support any gay group, pro gun or not. I don't support an liberal group, pro gun or not. I don't support any gang bang groups, pro gun or not. Etc.


Matt Payne,

As for telling me to keep my bigoted remarks to myself, first of all I don't believe them to bigoted, I believe them to be anti-gay and, I'll speak as I wish, thank you. Is talking anti liberal bigoted? I believe there was thread here titled verbal terms causing personal offense (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=144251) about someone not liking being called a liberal. Well, about every reply to that thread was suggesting "suck it up and get over it", "if you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen", and so on. I'll talk about my disdain for gays, fag's, whatever they're called, whenever the subject is brought up promoting them and their organizations. I have the right to do so just as 99% of the folks that took part in the "Liberal" thread had the right and spoke their mind.

You assume way too much. I don't support any gay organizations because of many reason. Yes, I don't believe it's right, period. I don't believe in interracial marriage just as I don't believe men should be having sex with other men or marrying them. But as important, most all are liberals and don't share my views on 95% of what I believe in and stand for. I'm not going to support an organization based on one thing I agree with them on. I'm not going to sacrifice my morals to promote carrying a gun, I can promote doing that in 20 other and better ways. I'm not about to apologize for my words or actions and won't be made to feel I should because it may be the "the politically correct thing to do".

If you don't like that, too bad.

BTW, this is not anything personal toward you. It's about the message, not the messenger.

Headless Thompson Gunner
June 25, 2005, 02:08 PM
The few gay individuals I know are each some of the most closed-minded and liberal people I know. They say they support everyone's rights, but in truth only support rights for themselves. My RKBA rights, in their mind, should be subject to their petty whims.

I don't know if these people are representative of the gay community as a whole, but I certainly hope not. If they are, then we need all of the Pink Pistols we can get. So I wish you the best at your rally. Good work!


Oh, and Lay off of Marshall. Just because his views on homosexuality aren't the same as yours doesn't mean he's a bigot. Diversity and tolerance work both ways.

Big Gay Al
June 25, 2005, 02:11 PM
Incidentally, I'm starting a club for straight shooters. I'm still working on a name.
I think there are already a ton of SAFE groups where straight gun enthusiasts can get together.

bogie
June 25, 2005, 02:13 PM
Okay, no problem. We don't need that swishy/butchy gay/lesbian vote anyway.

We also don't need the Jewish vote. Or the Catholic, Presbyterian, Methodist, Episcopalians or even the Lutherans... What do the Scientoligists think about guns?

We don't need the African-American vote.

Or the Soccer-Mommy vote.

Or the urban vote.

Or the suburban vote.

Or the union vote.

In fact, when all those folks vote to elect folks who'll tell the police to come get 'em, we can all hole up in the desert in Nevada until we run outta food.

That'll show 'em.

Personally, since I like to be able to drive outta the Compound to grab a snack, I'll welcome damn near anyone into the shooting sports.

Marshall
June 25, 2005, 02:22 PM
Thank you gentelmen.

TearsOfRage
June 25, 2005, 02:34 PM
Unfortunately I can't make it to Boston Pride thus year (or the hempfest either) as I'm just too busy.

The Pink Pistols had a great time there a few years ago. We all carried super-soakers (refilled from buckets in the back of my pickup). It was a hot day and the crowd LOVED being "shot". :cool:

Justin
June 25, 2005, 02:35 PM
*Double-checks calender just to make sure that this is, indeed, the 21st century.*

:scrutiny:

Marshall, it's unlikely anyone is going to get you to change your mind. However you might consider the following as just a bit of food for thought:

The more homosexuals and other assorted minority groups that learn to effectively use firearms for self-defense, the less powerful many of their self-appointed "protectors" become.

Which do you think would have been better for gun rights specifically, and freedom in general:

1)Matthew Shepard, a gay man is abducted, robbed, brutally beaten and left for dead. As a result of his death, many groups call for the passage of so-called "hate crime" legislation which cracks down on people's first amendment rights and punishes perpetrators disproportionatly based on what social group their victim belonged to.

2)Matthew Shepard, a gay man who carries a Glock is accosted by two thugs who attempt to victimize him. He responds by shooting both of his would-be assailants. As a result, many people in the homosexual community begin to reconsider their antagonistic views with regard to guns and gun owners, and stop supporting the cause of victim disarmament.

Spreadfire Arms
June 25, 2005, 02:45 PM
i think the theme of this thread is that you don't have to be:

1) pro-gay and anti-gun, or

2) pro-gun and anti-gay

there is no corellation to one's sexual preference and 2nd Amendment right.

thus, you can be:

1) anti-gun and anti-gay, or

2) pro-gun and pro-gay

or even ambivolent about one or the other, or both.

i will agree, though, the most gays are anti-gun, and most gun owners are anti-gay.

but there are some who can see past their 'party lines' and be for or against both. :)

also remember, there may be a THR member or two who are gay. let's not take to bashing THEM. ;)

Rich K
June 25, 2005, 03:06 PM
Justin,I'll vote for number 2,and I would guess that most THR memebers would say the same.As a parent with a gay child,I am pretty tolerant of most people's viewpoints,until you start talking and encouraging violence against the minority groups,then it becomes an issue.So let's just try to get along,okay?Just my 2 cents. :)

Marshall
June 25, 2005, 03:19 PM
Justin,

I think you stand a much higher chance of loosing many "gun moderate people" that have not voted anti gun in the past than getting the liberals to become pro gun, by a long shot. That will never happen. IMO you are looking at it completely inaccurately and stand a good chance of doing damage by trying to do good.

As far as your comparison and question to me about which would I rather have, you have assumed those two options have anything at all to do with my point. In fact, the best option is to have people protected by guns, all people. However, as I said, it has nothing to do with my point.

My point again is, I am not going to promote gay organizations just because of guns. It draws more attention to the gay part than the gun part, by far. It's just another avenue for gay promotion and to get more of you to not oppose them. The fact is, gay people have all the same avenues to promote guns and the RKBA as the rest of us do without promoting their own agenda as well. The fact that they are using this in this way is laughable to me.

Should I have an organization named "Anti gays for guns"? How about "Southern Baptist that don't approve of drinking, for guns"? Maybe "Abortionists for guns"? What am I really promoting? I hope some folks see this because it has a chance to backfire.

Lone_Gunman
June 25, 2005, 05:52 PM
What I never understand is why minority groups feel the need to have a special-interest, special-interest group.

Why does a group like the Pink Pistols need to exist? They promote gun ownership and protecting the second amendment, right? Then why not just be part of the NRA or GOA? What does being gay have to do with guns? Last time I checked, the NRA did not require one to be straight to participate.

Minorities preach a policy of unity, when really I think sometimes their efforts result in further division.

I am a member of a christian church. I am also a member of a pro-gun organization. I am not a member of a pro-christian, pro-gun organization though. These are seperate issues.

I am sorry, but I am not going to do much to support the Pink Pistols, as I only support a portion of their apparrent agenda. I am neutral on the gay issue. I see no reason for me to support or hurt their cause. They can do whatever they want, just leave me out of it.

Here is a quote from their website:

There are now over 35 Pink Pistols chapters nationwide, and more are starting up every day. We are dedicated to the legal, safe, and responsible use of firearms for self-defense of the sexual-minority community.

They clearly state they are dedicated to firearms use by the sexual minority community. I don't see where they say they support this for the community at large. The 2nd Amendment already guarantees this right to everyone. By supporting this right especially for gays, they are in fact pushing their homosexual agenda as well as a pro-gun agenda.

Andrew Rothman
June 25, 2005, 05:57 PM
Marshall,

You don't approve of interracial marriage, but you're not a bigot? Oooooooooookay. I've heard everything I need to know.

I'll just leave it at this: I'm proud to stand with ANY pro-freedom folk, and the direction of their affection just doesn't make any difference in my life.

That they just happen to be a tremendously effective wedge for gun rights into a tough-to-crack demographic is sweet, sweet icing on the cake.

Joining the Pink Pistols is not "promoting gay organizations." (Everyone: "Not that there's anything wrong with that!") It's promoting gun rights -- for everyone, even people that the intolerant would brand as "immoral."

And, incidentally, attitudes like yours create and reinforce an atmosphere that leads to the sort of gay-bashing that these folks are trying to arm themselves against. So thanks a lot for nothing.

BryanP
June 25, 2005, 06:05 PM
I'll just leave it at this: I'm proud to stand with ANY pro-freedom folk, and the direction of their affection just doesn't make any difference in my life.

Works for me. The only time I've been annoyed at a gay person was when my wife and I met some friends of ours at Hooters for lunch. The friends are a lesbian couple; they got there ahead of us and took the best eye-balling seats at the table. And they weren't even apologetic about it. ;)


What I never understand is why minority groups feel the need to have a special-interest, special-interest group.

If you can say that with a straight face then I doubt you ever will understand.

Andrew Rothman
June 25, 2005, 06:09 PM
Why does a group like the Pink Pistols need to exist? They promote gun ownership and protecting the second amendment, right? Then why not just be part of the NRA or GOA?

I'll call Aaron at Jews for the Preservation of Firearm Ownership right away and tell him I want my donations back, and I'll recommend that the Second Amendment Sisters cease operations, since they're so useless. :rolleyes:

They need to exist because they challenge people's preconceptions. It's way too easy to look at "NRA types" as a bunch of iggerant redneck hillybilly yahoos. Kenn Blanchard, Paxton Quigley, Aaron Zelman and, yes, the Pink Pistols, challenge that stereotype to exactly the people most likely to have them.

I'm proud to swim against the tide of my coreligionists, being an armed American Jew. To most of the world, I'm just a white guy with a gun, but to certain kneejerk liberals, I can say, hey, I will NOT sit still and let the Buford Furrows of the world have the upper hand. I'm Jewish, but I sure ain't Woody Allen. I'm armed, and I shoot back.

That's a much more powerful message than the NRA can send, and the Pink Pistols do exactly the same thing.

Lone_Gunman
June 25, 2005, 06:41 PM
The reason "NRA types" look like "NRA types" is because there is not proper representation from females, homosexuals, and Jews.

Carving out niche organizations for each sub-group exacerbates this problem.

As painful as it may be to accept, the JPFO and 2nd Amendment Sisters are pretty much useless in terms of political clout. They get a few headlines now and then, but no politician fears them.

I am not trying to be rude nor particularly incorrect nor anti-gay. We need to come together as gun owners under one roof, not splinter into a thousand useless fragments.

FPrice
June 25, 2005, 06:50 PM
Lends new meaning to the term, "straight shooter". :what:

Barbara
June 25, 2005, 06:53 PM
On the other hand, women come to places like this and hear that they're evil abusers and Lautenberg cases waiting to happen, gays are evil sinners, Muslims are all jihadis, etc.

You really wonder why they start their own groups? It's 'cause the typical gun crowd as seen on THR is slightly skewed in their perception of their own importance.

I agree there has to be unifying forces, but I don't see any problem with people belong to more than one organization, either. I belong to SAS..I also belong to GOA and SAF and NRA and SAFR, etc. Actually, I belong to the Pink Pistols, too, but I gave Oleg my pin and stopped getting their emails because the most frequent poster was a transsexual and I found that annoying (sorry, Al! I'm still a member, right?) So, I guess I don't see it being a big problem at all..they change some opinions, they have a good time shooting without having people give them crap and they're pro-gun. Good enough for me.

rock jock
June 25, 2005, 07:11 PM
Hmmm......well.......guess I'm just too red around the neck to agree. The whole gun thing is not going to live or die because of gays with pink pistols wearing tutu's. Besides, I don't want my future grandkids to have to be made to read books in school like "My other daddy" and be taught that's an OK way of life. Oh yea, not that there's anything wrong with that. +100

Marshall
June 25, 2005, 07:18 PM
You don't approve of interracial marriage, but you're not a bigot? Oooooooooookay. I've heard everything I need to know.

That's absolutely correct! I can love and respect any person of any race but that does not mean I have to approve of mixed marriages. You are correct, it does not make me a bigot at all. There are many reason for me not approving that go a lot deeper than your shallow thinking.

You know what's so funny, I have been very polite and exact in my points but yet, Matt Payne, you seem to be the one stereotyping me, calling me names and looking at me with a closed mind, one that's operating under preconceived views, you're the one with the agenda and I'm not falling for it. I know that upsets you greatly but I have the right to do so and see through it.

I have already gone into why I don't support gay organizations such as Pink Pistols, I have explained it well and nowhere have I said anything about my views of a gay person. If someone is gay, they're gay. They're still a person I love as a fellow human. That does not mean that I have to go along with the promotion of the gay way of life.

Actually Matt, attitudes like yours are one of the biggest problems. I can't disagree with you without you turning to ugliness.

Here comes the best part...........

They need to exist because they challenge people's preconceptions.

You see, my point is proved. They don't need to exist for gun rights do they Matt? Like you said, to challenge peoples views, that's what it's all about. Just like I said earlier, the RKBA has nothing to do with this. I'm telling you all, don't fall for it, here is the admission for all to see.

joab
June 25, 2005, 07:19 PM
I don't believe in interracial marriage Pretty much all I need to hear to figure out the tolerance level around the Marshal house

jojo
June 25, 2005, 07:30 PM
Marshall is welcome in my house ANYTIME!

jojo

Barbara
June 25, 2005, 07:34 PM
What is a more basic liberty than deciding who you will marry?

Vernal45
June 25, 2005, 07:34 PM
Pretty much all I need to hear to figure out the tolerance level around the Marshal house

What happened to Marshal's right to believe the way he wants to believe? Forced tolerance is not tolerance. Marshal has the right to think and believe how he wants. I dont agree with the homosexual lifestyle, but hey, its your life, do what you want, dont hurt me, and we wont have a problem. Forced tolerance/diversity is going to hurt us in the long run.

The Pink Pistols are more about being gay, that about 2nd amend rights, IMO.

Standing Wolf
June 25, 2005, 07:38 PM
They are trying to prevent the PP from wearing empty holsters!

Yep. Sounds like San Francisco, all right: the tolerant city.

sfhogman
June 25, 2005, 07:39 PM
Dear G-d, you're ALL welcome in my house, if you can handle the dog hair in the corners.

Sheesh!
Jeff

Marshall
June 25, 2005, 07:45 PM
C'mon joab, that's it? :rolleyes:

Actually, I would like to see us go back about 50 years when it comes to a lot of thing that have become accepted in todays society. Sometimes I look around and just shake my head about some of the things I see people doing, protesting about, etc. Seems nothing is sacred anymore.

GOD's out, prayer's out, commandments are out, it's OK to compare America to Nazi's on the senate floor during times of war, homosexuality can't be challenged without those on the other side accusing those whom do of bashing gays. I can go and on and on, it's sad in my opinion. :(

jojo, thank you.

Hawken50
June 25, 2005, 07:55 PM
Matt Payne -sorry, off topic but is your screen name is a refrence to the
W. E. B. Griffin character of the same name? if so, good choice.

Andrew Rothman
June 25, 2005, 07:58 PM
They need to exist because they challenge people's preconceptions.You see, my point is proved. They don't need to exist for gun rights do they Matt? Like you said, to challenge peoples views, that's what it's all about. Just like I said earlier, the RKBA has nothing to do with this. I'm telling you all, don't fall for it, here is the admission for all to see.
Um, are you being deliberately obtuse? They challenge people's conceptions about GUN OWNERS -- making them realize that they're not all racist homophobes like you.

Good night.

joab
June 25, 2005, 08:07 PM
What happened to Marshal's right to believe the way he wants to believe? Here we go again Vernal. A little reading comprehension goes along way.
Forced tolerance is not tolerance Where have I tried to force him to tolerate anything.

I merely pointed out what I believe to be an ignorant, bigoted, pathetically backward remark and make an observation on the type of household the maker of the remark would live in.

Or do I not have the right to believe the way I want.

Forced intolerance is not intolerance, unless you grow up in a household that forces the intolerance on you.
But what the hell the Klan always needs new recruits for the rest of us to pity and laugh at

Actually, I would like to see us go back about 50 years when it comes to a lot of thing that have become accepted in todays society I know what you mean, you can't even whip a Negro's or queer's ass these days without getting into trouble. It's almost like they're real people or something


I'd invite y'all to my house but you might be offended by my wife's complexion.
Damn mud people screw up all my fun

Marshall
June 25, 2005, 08:09 PM
Nice try there Matt, not buying it.

What I am buying is your ugliness, as I pointed out. When you can't win you name call and this even isn't about winning. It's about points of view and what we choose to support and not support. You're handling of this is discussion is very poor.

I have nothing against a gay person, but I'm not allowed to speak out against promoting the way of life while you think you have the right to talk to me as you do. It seems your attitude is all or nothing. There's no room for any other way of thought or belief without resorting to name calling? That's terrible Matt.

joab
June 25, 2005, 08:11 PM
Um, are you being deliberately obtuse I don't think that it is deliberate Matt

Marshall
June 25, 2005, 08:12 PM
Man o man Joab, where in the world do you come up with this stuff? :what: Simply amazing. :rolleyes:

joab
June 25, 2005, 08:13 PM
I was actually wondering where people like you come up with the stuff you think.

it's sad in my opinion Yep

Headless Thompson Gunner
June 25, 2005, 08:15 PM
I had a higher regard for the Pink Pistols before I read this thread.

It seems that society in general, and the bulk of the contributors to this thread, feel that anyone who disagrees with the politically correct view on homosexuality is somehow a bigot or gay basher. There are people who hold well-reasoned beliefs that differ from the politically corect, curently popular norms, and yet they always seem to be shouted down. This is terribly wrong, and nobody seems to notice. Oh well...

If you feel it is beneficial to support a group that amplifies our differences then please do so. But those of us who disagree are not to be slandered as bigots, homophobes and gay-bashers. Do not look down upon us as backward, mindless, religious fanatics. We are none of those.

We who disagree with homosexuality have as much right to out beliefs as you do to yours, and I demand that we be treated with respect. We are tolerant of you, so long as you don't attempt to force your viewpoint on us. I expect the same courtesy from you.

I'll say it again: tolerance works both ways. If you want us to respect your viewpoints you must also respect ours. Until you do that, I ask that you keep your "I am holier than thou because I support gays" attitude to yourself.

Marshall
June 25, 2005, 08:25 PM
All it's done is reinforced my opinion about what about what they are all about and it's not the RKBA.

I've participated nicely in this thread and been treated terribly for it. I haven't resorted to the low road as those who have debated against me have. My point have been made and whatever I say I can't say it any better than I already have. Be who you are and what you believe in, it's your right. It's also my right to peacefully point out my point of view and be what I believe in.

I'm pulling out while I'm able to keep a decent demeanor. :)

FPrice
June 25, 2005, 08:37 PM
or has this gotten out of hand? :scrutiny:

White Horseradish
June 25, 2005, 08:51 PM
Marshall, you most certainly have a right to your beliefs. Matt, on the other hand, has a right to his beliefs, part of which is perception of your beliefs as stupid. Nobody is forcing anyone to believe anything, merely expressing opinions.

HTG, I have yet to see anyone who "disagrees with homosexuality" whose belief was reasoned. It always comes back to either faith or emotion, neither of which are reason. Feel free to contact me privately if you wish to demonstrate otherwise.

saddlebum
June 25, 2005, 08:56 PM
marshall, you make me proud.

fistful
June 25, 2005, 08:59 PM
attitudes like yours create and reinforce an atmosphere that leads to the sort of gay-bashing that these folks are trying to arm themselves against. MP, I hope you do not mean to imply that those of us who oppose homosexuality are responsible for violence against homosexuals. If that is the case, we must stop opposing gun control before Mrs. Brady and Martin Sheen are set upon and killed.

Marshall is showing more sense and tolerance than some people on this thread. I don't understand his view of mixed marriages, but I don't know that it makes him a racist. Calling him a homophobe, though, is totally off-base. That term is just a slur and you should apologize, Mr. Payne.

i think if some idiot tried to 'gay-bash' a homosexual and that homosexual was CHL'd and armed and shot the BG in self-defense, i think it would actually bolster the reasons FOR CHL in states that don't allow itMaybe. Depends on whether the press reports that he's a homosexual or just portrays him as another hot-headed gun-nut.

That's why Justin's Matthew Shepard analogy is short-sighted. If Shepard had produced a gun, most likely the whole thing would have ended with the attackers running away and we would never have heard of it. http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=277685&page=1 (http://)

torpid
June 25, 2005, 08:59 PM
Why does a group like the Pink Pistols need to exist? They promote gun ownership and protecting the second amendment, right? Then why not just be part of the NRA or GOA? What does being gay have to do with guns? Last time I checked, the NRA did not require one to be straight to participate.


I bet the Pink Pistol crowd can enjoy being social and discussing things they have in common while they shoot that would make many folks a bit uptight (the "keep it to yourself" crowd).


.

Vernal45
June 25, 2005, 09:03 PM
We who disagree with homosexuality have as much right to out beliefs as you do to yours, and I demand that we be treated with respect. We are tolerant of you, so long as you don't attempt to force your viewpoint on us. I expect the same courtesy from you.

I'll say it again: tolerance works both ways. If you want us to respect your viewpoints you must also respect ours. Until you do that, I ask that you keep your "I am holier than thou because I support gays" attitude to yourself.



+1, well said. Marshall, you are not alone.

pax
June 25, 2005, 09:07 PM
Closed because of vitriol and stupidity.

pax

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