14.5x114MM Rifles


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Kalashnikov
June 25, 2005, 12:08 PM
Are there any in country? I Know they have no realistic use, but I like guns a certain....uniqueness. Anyways I saw some shells at my milsupr store, ($5.50 a shell) and it got me thinking if there are any in america. Just curious is all.

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Mannlicher
June 25, 2005, 01:39 PM
I think its Russian. This shoots the same shell.
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/NTW20mm.jpg
sure looks like fun.

Preacherman
June 25, 2005, 02:04 PM
South Africa makes a sniper rifle in this caliber, with an interchangeable barrel for a 20mm. cannon round for anti-materiel use. Nice gun - I've shot it. See here (http://www.world.guns.ru/sniper/sn55-e.htm) for details.

I don't think any have been "officially" imported into this country, but I'd be surprised if Special Forces hadn't got its hands on one or two for evaluation, as they seem to do with just about any interesting weapon developed elsewhere.

jefnvk
June 25, 2005, 02:11 PM
Wouldn't that be a DD?

Kalashnikov
June 25, 2005, 08:07 PM
Oh I know they're russian, at least in origin. I have the history of the cartridge somewhere around here. I was just wondering if any rifles had be imported into america. BY the time I could afford one, I would be able to show it off to my grandkids and ammo would be around $100 a round. Thanks for the info though.

benEzra
June 25, 2005, 09:35 PM
They'd be NFA restricted if they were, since 14.7mm is over the .50-caliber cutoff for non-NFA civilian arms. (For those not fluent in both SI and U.S. customary measures, .50 caliber is 12.7mm.)

All I can say is, wow...

BTW, that rifle appears to me to be the model for the sniper rifle in the original HALO game. Same muzzle brake, carry handle over the scope objective, forward gas tube extension, hinge-down bipod in the same place.

wasrjoe
June 25, 2005, 09:59 PM
Isn't it beautiful when form follows function?

kal
June 25, 2005, 10:06 PM
That rifle in the link Mannlicher posted is the NTW20 which is made in South Africa. It can chambered for 20mm or 14.5mm Russian. Yes it is the sniper rifle you use in the Xbox hit Halo. :neener:

More here
http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn55-e.htm

Gabe
June 25, 2005, 10:07 PM
114.5mm has 175% the muzzle energy of .50BMG. Officially anything larger than 14.5mm is a cannon instead of rifle.

Eightball
June 25, 2005, 11:00 PM
114.5mm :eek: ? So, that means that there actually are hand "cannons" out there? Sweet!

Joejojoba111
June 26, 2005, 05:00 AM
14.5mm is probably the most powerful non-rocket assisted or recoilless cartridge that a human can fire.

Kalashnikov
June 26, 2005, 01:16 PM
NFA? So does that mean if I have a ClassIII (hypothetically) I can own them? Well I can still dream :o

LeonCarr
June 26, 2005, 03:04 PM
One guy that might know if there are any in the country is J.D. Jones at www.sskindustries.com

If there aren't any of those rifles in the country, he can probably build you one, but it won't be cheap :).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

Joejojoba111
June 26, 2005, 07:22 PM
With the press against .50 rifles, I don't see how anyone could avoid lynching should they own and operate a 14.5mm anti-tank rifle... except if they own and operate a 14.5mm anti-tank rifle...

RON in PA
June 27, 2005, 12:35 PM
If I remember correctly, in pre 1968 days surplus 14.5 mm Russian anti-tank rifles were for sale by "Ye Old Hunter" in full page ads that appeared in the American Rifleman and other gun mags of that era. Now if I only had any money back in those days I could have bought not only those, but .55 cal Boys anti-tank rifles and 20 mm Solothrun semi-auto guns.

Kalashnikov
June 27, 2005, 01:38 PM
Well, if I save up until I'm 50 I might be able to buy a custom one. I have a new dream :D

Brian Williams
June 27, 2005, 02:13 PM
he can probably build you one, but it won't be cheap I think that he would not be able to build you one because the register for destructive devices is closed along with the machine guns. Any rifle or handgun over the bore diameter of 12.7 or .50 is considered a destructive device and falls under the National Firearms Aco of 1932. I think the .50 BMG projectile is actually .510 and the 500 S&W is just a little over the .5. When measured groove to groove the bullet needs to be just a little bit larger, and the true bore dimension used by the NFA is measured land to land

strambo
June 27, 2005, 02:45 PM
Just neck it down to .50 and make a heck of a wildcat. A 3000+ fps .50 cal varmit gun! :what:

Kalashnikov
June 27, 2005, 03:34 PM
Hmmm....an anti-tank varmint round....I like it! :evil:

thebucket
June 27, 2005, 05:31 PM
Just neck it down to .50 and make a heck of a wildcat. A 3000+ fps .50 cal varmit gun!


Finally, I can get rid of that gopher that got a hold of an M1. He's been tearing up the property something terrible with it.

Throttle_monkey1
July 2, 2005, 01:07 AM
go to www.wolverinesupplies.com

at the bottom they have those things for sale. They are approx. 1500$ canadian, so about 49.95$ US

Joejojoba111
July 2, 2005, 05:55 AM
I wouldn't be surpried if the rifles cost only 1 or 2 hundred where they come from. But ammunition, that's going to be what, $10 a round? Can one even reload those, do they make primers?

c_yeager
July 2, 2005, 06:07 AM
NFA? So does that mean if I have a ClassIII (hypothetically) I can own them? Well I can still dream

Interesting notion for Californians, there are places in California where one can still get approval for a class III, but the .50 ban still applies. Can you imagine the bizarness of a world where one can obtain one of these 14.5mm monsters MORE EASILY than a .50BMG rifle?

Third_Rail
July 2, 2005, 10:11 AM
I think that he would not be able to build you one because the register for destructive devices is closed along with the machine guns. Any rifle or handgun over the bore diameter of 12.7 or .50 is considered a destructive device and falls under the National Firearms Aco of 1932. I think the .50 BMG projectile is actually .510 and the 500 S&W is just a little over the .5. When measured groove to groove the bullet needs to be just a little bit larger, and the true bore dimension used by the NFA is measured land to land.

NFA of 1934, and only closed to new MG registrations, not DDs. Besides, over .5" wasn't DD until 1968 GCA came along, IIRC...

SB88LX
July 2, 2005, 12:42 PM
That PTRD 14.5 rifle may kill tanks, but I can't imagine the recoil, look how light that thing looks. I'd imagine it'd be about 3 times the punishment the arab experienced in the 577 tyrannosaur video. :eek:



http://www3.mb.sympatico.ca/~jhipwell/images/ptrd1.jpg

*edit* "
The unique built in recoil damper and extremely effective muzzle brake make these rifles a delight to shoot,
felt recoil is equivalent to a .30-06 hunting rifle." Nevermind then, I want one.

slzy
July 2, 2005, 01:07 PM
photos of the red army show whole platoons marching to the front with ptrds.harrassment indeed.

Joejojoba111
July 2, 2005, 05:02 PM
Anyone have ammunition prices?

Edit: I do now, and it's not pretty. http://www.bigskysurplus.com/14.5MM.htm

Preacherman
July 2, 2005, 06:09 PM
Well, if anyone buys one of these, talk to me about ammo. My military buddies in South Africa might be able to slip me a few boxes of current-production stuff at very reasonable prices (think less than a dollar a round, even with shipping). South Africa also makes some rather neat explosive/incendiary rounds in this caliber for anti-materiel use... ;)

(Of course, all depends on the legality of imports, etc.)

Gordon
July 3, 2005, 03:28 AM
Well according to ATF field office in SF the 14.5 RIFLE is just UNDER a destructive device bore size and is LEGAL. Handguns are restricted to under .50. Rifles are NOT, hence the .577 , the .600 Nitro express AND the new .700 Nitro express.
This gun is also legal in whacky Calif! I am building one on a custom GIANT copy of a Macmillan action. The reciever and bolt are already machined. I haven't found a Barrel yet. The Brake will be custom . I want a weapon weight of around 60 pounds, with the ability to break into two 30 pound loads. This project may take a couple years to complete, it will be my last big project prolly. I want to hit "the red Rock" with it before I get too old. :p

Tony Williams
July 3, 2005, 04:04 AM
Just neck it down to .50 and make a heck of a wildcat. A 3000+ fps .50 cal varmit gun!

The US had something similar but even more powerful in WW2: the .60 (15.2mm) anti-tank rifle round. The ATR never made it, but the cartridge was tried in various aircraft guns before being 'necked out' to 20mm to create the 20x102 used in the M39 and M61 Vulcan. They also tried necking it down to .50 calibre to make the .50/60. This fired a standard .50 cal BMG bullet at around 4,000 fps...

The photo below (fom the Ammo Photo Gallery on my website) shows the .50/60 (12.7x114) in a group of other experimental HMG rounds. The .50 BMG (12.7x99) is included for scale.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/HMG2.jpg

Kalashnikov
July 3, 2005, 12:15 PM
So they are legal? Sweet jesus, would I like one of those. Those shells are huge.....just think of all the rat problems I'll eliminate :evil:

benEzra
July 3, 2005, 02:56 PM
Well according to ATF field office in SF the 14.5 RIFLE is just UNDER a destructive device bore size and is LEGAL. Handguns are restricted to under .50. Rifles are NOT, hence the .577 , the .600 Nitro express AND the new .700 Nitro express.
Actually, I don't think that's true (the agent manning the phone may have gotten it wrong). My understanding from reading the text of the law is that all firearms over .50 (not including .50) are restricted by the NFA, EXCEPT for hunting firearms. So you can buy a .600 Nitro (hunting rifle) or a .729 caliber shotgun (i.e., a 12-gauge), BUT the BATFE can ban any gun over .50 by declaring it "non-sporting," as Lloyd Bentson did in the early '90's with the revolving-cylinder shotguns.

uglygun
July 4, 2005, 06:58 PM
Guys, check out the SSK Industries page a little more closely.

They make a non-NFA Destructive Device chambering in 14.5mm that is a necked up 50BMG, how does 1100+ grains at 2700+fps grab you?


The thing has been around for a couple months now and I have linked to it in the past on this forum, not just doing it now after having read the SSK Industries link posted by another member in an earlier response.

The thing mics in at just under 60caliber but is certainly over 50cal. by a fair margin.

Kalashnikov
July 6, 2005, 12:26 PM
I'd still rather have a PTRD. I really like the actions how it unlocks the bolt during recoil. And the fact that I could take out most sea going vehicals :evil:

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