[ballistic gelatin]

http://www.miltecharms.com/mt98k.jpg
Anybody out there got one of these? I am on "the list" for one in an upcoming shipment, the wood is nowhere near this good. These things seem to be built like a tank. Any word on the accuracy with these, or some good history?

[Dorrin79]

I'm going to go pick up a Yugo M48 milsurp Mauser 98 in 8mm this weekend. I've heard nothing but good things about these rifles (except for the somewhat expensive ammo)

[Jim K]

There sure have been enough made, like millions. The picture is a K.98k, probably one of the most sought after because it was the standard German rifle of WWII. The M48s are nice and many are brand new but, contrary to some ads, they are not standard Mauser 98's (the receiver is shorter), not WWII, not K.98k's and not historical. The cheapest of the recent lot are probably the Turkish Mausers, which have sold as low as $38 retail. The Czech VZ-24, which is a standard Mauser '98 action, is a nice action and a good base for sporterizing.

And there are tons of the older German rifles, plus Persian, plus .... It is a long list.

Accuracy with good ammo is excellent with almost any of the Mausers with a good bore.

Jim

[ballistic gelatin]

What is that hole in the buttstock for?
Does ammmo cost that much more than 7.62x54 (mosin nagant)?
Which rifle is the better firearm?
Mauser or Mosin?

[444]

#1 used for disassembly of the bolt
#2 ammo is as cheap or cheaper than 7.62x54R depending on your individual deal.
#3 Of course which one is better is purely subjective. They both more than proved themselves on the field of battle. The 98 Mauser is a more complicated rifle. It was built with better quality of production. I have a 91/30 Moison Nagant with a bore so big that it is totally inaccurate with standard ammo. All the ones I have seen have different sized bores. I have several of both and am very happy with both.

[Snowdog]

Are you referring to the hole for sling attachment? :confused:

[TaurusGL]

Sorry to get off topic but how much is a good condition Mauser with the NAZI emblem (This is a true WWII gun) on the barrel worth?

[HSMITH]

Blasting ammo is CHEAP, I paid less than $50 for the last batch I bought, and that was 575 rounds!!!!

Get a good one in good shape, the cheap versions are pretty used up.

[Redlg155]

They are running a bit over $200 for the Nazi stamping on them. Figure $250-$300 at your dealer.

Good Shooting
RED

[alcmaeon]

" I've heard nothing but good things about these rifles (except for the somewhat expensive ammo)"

8mm is cheap! Well, 8mm surplus is cheap. I have bought thousands of rounds and never paid more than a dime a round even with shipping. Its corrosive, but thats ok, ya just got to clean it after you shoot instead of waiting 4 days to do it. One of the bonuses for shooting 8mm mausers is the cheap ammo on the market today.

RE K98s with intact Nazi markings- right now there is a whole bunch of Russian captured K98s on the market, these were rearsenaled by the Russians after WWII and they didn't ping off the Nazi markings. Most are not matching. They can be had for $200-$300ish, I think Empire Arms still has some.

Barring these, most K98s with intact Nazi markings are going to be GI bringbacks and you could probably pick one up for $500-800 depending on condition. Most captured K98s, no matter if captured by us, the Yugoslavians or whomever, had the Nazi markings pinged off.

[makdaddy03]

DAMN!! Nice rifle.

[762x51]

444:

Can you elaborate on using the hole in the stock to disassemble the bolt? Always been curious about its use.

[444]

http://www.surplusrifle.com/yugom48/disassemble/index.asp

See figure #14. Instead of pushing the firing pin against the wife's dinner table, you use the hole in the stock.

This whole site is good: http://www.surplusrifle.com/mauser98k/index.asp

[Tamara]

Mitchell's Mausers are among the nicest 98's you can pick up these days.

Comparisons to Mosins and such are not really fair, as the large-ring Mausers were of a whole new generation of fighting rifles (the Mosin is more appropriately compared to small-ring Mausers and Krags and such). A good 98 or 98k is as nice a milsurp bolt gun as you're likely to find.

[TaurusGL]

I guess I should have specified that I own a Nazi K98 with all matching parts in good condition(the wood is extremely dark)

[ballistic gelatin]

Cool. I am so excited!

[BHP9]

I would suggest if you want to learn more about Mauser rifles to get some of the excellent collector books on them , someof which also give a history of the 98 series of Rifles.

They were made in many countries with workmanship that varied form fabulous to crudely functional.

The 98 was and is considred the premier military and sporting bolt action rifle. Even to this day it has no rivals both in terms of design, safety and depending on the manufacturer and year of manufacture, workmanship.

The German WWII rifles started out with excellent workmanship at the begining of WWII and gradually deteriorated due to war time conditions. If you look closely at the early war guns you will see that they had milled but plates that were later replaced with cupped stamped sheet metal butt plates as the war drew to an end. Barrel bands went from milled to stamped as the war progressed.

The most expensive Mausers are the ones brought back by the returning G.I.s from WWII. They had no import marks on them and many had the original facotry blueing on them. As of late their is an influx of captured German Mausers that the Russians have supposedly refinished and rebarreled. They, because of the refinish and import marks will not be worth as much as the G.I. bring back souveniers.

I briefly owned a couple of the Yugo's but got rid of them. Not becuase they were not sound, serviceable and accurate rifles but the workmanship was too crude for my collecting tastes.

A comment was made about Mitchels Mausers but since I myself am not financially influenced by this outfit I will only say that they are way overpriced and prettty much of a rip off for what you are getting. The same weapons can often be purchased elsewhere for half the price.

The most desirable of Mausers besides the early war G.I. bring backs are the contract rifles that were made by Belgium, Germany and Czechoslovakia. Their workmanship was as smooth as glass and many had beautiful walnut stocks as well.

The king of them all in my opinion was the FN. 1920/30 rifle as made for Venezuala. It had a polished in the white receiver with a very beautiful crest stamped on the receiver.

There were many other nice ones like the WWII G33/40 Czech small ring mountain rifle issued to elite German Mountain troops and even a rare folding stock version.

There was the Czech 98/29 long rifle made for Persia that was outstanding both in workmahship and super accuracy.

There was also the DWM Chilean 1895 long rifle with the crest picturing standing horses and was in 7x57 Mauser my favorite of all the Mauser calibers.

The Mausers made in Europe for Peru also had a fantastically beautiful crest on them and outstanding workmanship.

Prices range from $100 bucks for roughly made Yugo's to Hundreds for German, Belgian, &Czech contract rifles and thousands for German WWII Snipers.

I highly recommend Ludwig Olsens book on collecting Mauser Rifles called "Mauser Bolt Rifles" and don't miss Peter Senich's book "The German Sniper Rifle".

Mauser rifles were made the old fashioned way with plenty of hand workmanship and quality materiels throughout. The bolt had interlocking parts that enabled the user to take the bolt apart with no tools other than the tip of a loaded cartridge (necessary only to get the extractor off) but not necessary to strip the rest of th bolt. The metal disc that you see on many Mauser rifles that had a depression in the middle of it was used to strip the spring off of the firing pin and also the cocking piece. The safety simply is rotated and lifted off after it has been seperated from the firing pin assmbly.

Two years ago Rick Jamison in "Shooting Times Magazine" wrote one of the most outstanding articles ever written explaining the inner workings and perfect gas escape system of the Mauser that made it one of the safest rifles ever designed.

A word on the terror of history "Corrosive Ammo".

I have no financial ties to Ammo companies so I can speak straight from the Horses mounth about this scourge that has destroyed more fine old guns than any of Sara Brady's bunch ever even contemplated in their wildest dreams.

I have seen corrosive ammo instantly rust barrels on humid days. No amount of even quick cleaning could have saved them. It happended instantly because of the humidity. I can only warn the ownders of really nice undamaged weapons never, ever to use this vile stuff if you want to preserve your collector piece from permanent damage. I have never went with the philosophy that just because I may have gotten a good deal and paid a low price for a weapon that it was therefore ok to ruin it with bad ammo.

Another unkown fact is that a lot of suplus old ammo was loaded with steel bullets and or cupro-nickle bullets. The old cupro-nickle bullets deposit nickle in the bore and it is a devil to try and remove. Copper fouling is hard enough to get out but nickle fouling is a nightmare and can often be seen as formed lumps of metal in the bore. Better to shoot less and shoot quality ammo that is also in most cases light years more accurate than to shoot a lot and ruin a fine old collectors item that was and is a piece of history.

I have on occasion took apart corrosive ammo and saved the bullets (if they were copper jacketed not steel or cupro-nickle) and the powder and reloaded it into boxer primed brass with non-corrossive modern primers. It is the primer that is corrosive not the powder.

And so their is a Mauser out their for everyone wether you just want one of the lower priced ones for shooting or one of the rarer super workmanship contract models for collecting. You could spend a lifetime and never collect all of the variations and lets not forget some of the close copies like the Japanese Ariska's that actually had fold out wings that were used as leads for shooting down airplanes. They were called anti-aircraft sights. Fascinating to say the least.

A Mauser rifle will never let you down. Their controlled feeding makes it impossible to double feed a round from short stroking a bolt, their extractors are the strongest on earth that actually bite in harder if the cartridge is stuck in the chamber, and the bolt handles are about impossible to break off, unlike more modern and much cheaper produced rifles. IN OTHER WORDS THERE WERE NO SHORT CUTS IN THE MANUFACTURE OF THE ORIGINAL 98 RIFLES. Other than the modifications made to late war military rifles the guns were made of first class materiels, no castings, no plastic, no aluminum and the only sheet metal that was used was in very late war guns and that was used only on the butt plate and barrel bands, not the inner working parts of the gun so necessary for top notch reliability.


IF YOUR LIFE IS ON THE LINE FROM ENEMY FIRE OR A CHARGING BEAST STRAIGHT OUT OF THE DEPTHS OF HELL THERE IS NO BETTER RIFLE THAN THE 98 MAUSER. I SAY TO YOU DEAR FRIEND "MAKE MINE MAUSER", BECAUSE "SYSTEM MAUSER" SIMPLY CANNOT BE BEAT.

[Tamara]

A comment was made about Mitchels Mausers but since I myself am not financially influenced by this outfit

Really? Neither am I. :rolleyes:

BECAUSE "SYSTEM MAUSER" SIMPLY CANNOT BE BEAT.

Well, "System Mosin", "System Enfield" and "System Garand" did a pretty decent job of it, actually. ;)

They are probably the nicest old milsurp boltguns out there, though (save perhaps Schmidt-Rubins). The US liked 'em so much that we basically ripped off the design and called it the "03 Springfield". I like 'em so much that I have four large-ring Mausers, two small-rings, and two Mausers in drag. (An Arisaka and an Eddystone).

[cracked butt]

Mitchell's sells some nice rifles, but they simply aren't worth the price. I've seen advertisements for their rifles for around $400 with all of the accessories. A year ago you could buy an unissued rifle of the same condition for about $150 from a couple of other dealers and spent another $25 to get the bayonet and other accessories. For $400 I would rather buy 2 98/29's or Swedish M96's which are far superior to the m48 and will likely become valuable in my lifetime..:D
I certainly wouldn't pay the extravagant prices for a Miltech rifle as they may look like cherries, they have pretty much any history stripped from them when they are restocked, reblued, rebarreled ect. One can currently buy a Russian capture or Yugo rearsenalled K98 for about 1/5th the price of what Miltech sells their rifles for.

On the subject of corrosive ammo- I recently did an experiment on a beater wallhanger of a rifle I have- a Romanian M44 carbine. I took it to the range and shot around 50 rounds of corrosive ammo through it and then let it sit im my damp basement. It took 2 days before I could see any visible rust form. I'm sure it was corroding before I could see visible rust, but I've never had any problems with shooting corrosive ammo in any of my rifles. The Cupronickel can be tough to clean out, but a good copper solvent will remove it. True, I don't shoot this stuff through my more expensive rifles, but I have no qualms about shooting it through my cheap turk and yugo rifles.

[cratz2]

Something like this?

http://photos.imageevent.com/cratz2/guns//Unissued%20K98%20Mauser%201.jpg

[Tamara]

Yeah, they're a little steep; however...

Not everybody A) wants to spend time searching gun shows for that "perfect" 98 or 98k that headspaces and has a good bore, or B) wants to take their chances with a "hand-selected" Turk or Yugo from Joe Blow Wholesale Co. that is actually "hand-selected" only by virtue of being pulled by hand out of a barrel of old, rusty rifles. My .300 Whisper Turk project gun began life this way; yeah, it was cheap, but it had a bore like a mineshaft in coal country and didn't even come remotely close to headspacing (a "no-go" rattled around in the action like a BB in a boxcar).

If all someone wants is a pretty shooter that has been thoroughly checked out and is backed by a company more reputable than Toothless Joe's House of Milsurps, then the Mitchell's start looking like a better deal. Me? I looked around until I found someone willing to part with a no-import-marks GI bring-back byf, but I was looking for "collectable" as well as "shootable" and had all the time in the world.

Depends on what you want, and how fast you want it. If you are willing to take headspace gauges and a bore light to gun shows and dig through piles of Turks and Yugos, you can beat Mitchell's prices like a drum; if you just want a pretty shooter Right Now, well... ;)

[cracked butt]

I agree with you that you will get the 'best' m48 money can buy from Mitchell's without worry of getting a sewer pipe held to a broken stock with baling wire.:D Ordering from places like Century is a crapshoot at best but others I've dealt with like Sarco and Samco have treated me very well and delivered rifles that were well beyond my expectations. There are far better 98's than the m48 out there that can be had for much lower prices than Mitchell's. :cool:

What's a .300 whisper? I have a few century turks with shot out barrels that I want to do something with. One might get an M96 barrel, but I don't have plans for the other.

[Tamara]

.300 Whisper is a .223 case necked up to take .308 bullets. It's meant to be a suppressed round, but has some interesting ballistics with lighter bullets, too. I was sitting there with a pulled-apart Turk, and a friend had a .30 caliber Lilja barrel he wanted to sell, and there were a couple of boxes of .300 Whisper lying around, and a little 20-watt bulb flickered on over my head... ;)

The barrel has a threaded muzzle, so one of these days I'll probably wind up getting a can for it...

[telewinz]

As more than a few people have mentioned in other posts, its hard to beat Aim. Even if Aim is right(& the buyer wrong), they will bend over backwards to keep a happy customer. Buy ammo from them all the time, more often than not they throw in extra boxes of ammo. Got their Kar98K with the intact german markings, mint bore, better condition than stated all for $200. A buyer just can't go wrong.:)

[HarryB]

My 1918 Gustaf M96...

http://www.picturefuse.com/images/0303/19463.jpg

http://www.picturefuse.com/images/0303/19464.jpg


or my 1909 Argentine...

http://www.picturefuse.com/images/0303/19458.jpg

http://www.picturefuse.com/images/0303/19459.jpg

I would still like to get a 98, but the Yugo 48 and 48A pale compared to these two.

[ballistic gelatin]

1909 Argentine looks real nice.

[BHP9]

1909 Argentine looks real nice

You put it to mildly.

They were a zenith in military gun making art. One of the most desireable military bolt guns ever made.

There were none better. Few others came even close to them in terms of accuracy, workmanship and extreme beauty.

[BHP9]

Yeah, they're a little steep; however...

Lets not kid anyone, their outrageous in price.

l. Me? I looked around until I found someone willing to part with a no-import-marks GI bring-back byf, but I was looking for "collectable" as well as "shootable" and had all the time in the world.

Isn't there a saying that goes something like, "Do not believe what a politician says but watch what he actually does."

I am willing to bet you did not pay anywhere near what Mitchel charges for his rebuilds either.

For those who are extemely rich the Mitchel Mausers offer instant gradification but for most of us who work for a living the virtue of a little patients pays off in the rather large financial savings by shopping around at gun shows, the internet and even purchasing form reputable military surplus dealers. A few of them do exist.

I'll pass on Mitchell Mausers and everything else he sells.

I really got a kick out of the P38's he has for sale. He puts them in a different box and then charges a kings ransom for them.

[BHP9]

Comparisons to Mosins and such are not really fair, as the large-ring Mausers were of a whole new generation of fighting rifles (the Mosin is more appropriately compared to small-ring Mausers and Krags and such). A good 98 or 98k is as nice a milsurp bolt gun as you're likely to find.

I fail to grasp you anology. Small ring v/s large ring has nothing to do with quality or functionality. It was done to save weight as for example the need for a light weight rifle carbine in mountian warfare as was the case for the creation of the G33/40 mountian rifles which were a variation of the M98's by the way.

True, large rings may take a bit more pressure before they blow but when using factory or military ammo in guns of sound condition the small ring v/s large ring hasn't much meaning except in terms of weight.

98 Mausers by the way were made both in Small ring and Large ring and I have seen Czech small ring Mausers chambered for the same powerful cartridgeds as the large ring Mausers.

In short your anology of small ring v/s short ring comes from a misunderstanding of reasons for their design and function.

I would also add that the large ring action was not a new genereation of anything. It was a continuation of the evolution of the rifles that the Mauser rifles introduced years earlier. It was not a new design at all but an improvement of existing designs viz models 1891,92,92,94,95,96 etc.

Your other post about the 1903 springfield being a rip off of the 98 Mauser was also inaccurate. The 1903 was more closely linked to the earlier 1895 Mauser used against us in the Spanish American war. The 1903 was actually being designed way before the 98 design was finallized and marketed. Although I will concede that the U.S. military was aware of the developement few if any of its mechical improvements were incorportated into the 1903 rifle. Its excellent gas escape system certainly wasn't nor was its once piece firing pin.

[cracked butt]

That is a pretty Argie. There is something to be said about anything that was made by craftsmen who were proud of their trade.

http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/1910462.jpg



Their work became art, art that was put into everyday objects to be used for everyday purposes, even if the item were only to be carried by a lowly grunt defending a nation.

http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/1910435.jpg


Before fast food, mass production ,and throw-away plastic that wears out, things were made to last and perhaps be enjoyed by those of a different lifetime or world altogether.

http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/1910434.jpg

[BHP9]

Well you guys all did it to me. All these damn beautiful pictures of your fabulous Mauser Rifles are going to keep me up tonight thinking about my next purchase of another fabulous Mauser Rifle.

Looks like there were more knowledgeable people out there than I thought. Those of you who are lucky enough to own such works of art don't have to be told how superior these Mausers were to the junk that is being produced today.

Don't post any more of these beautiful pictures, your going to give me a heart attack or maybe I will die of jelousy.

[Tamara]

I fail to grasp you anology. Small ring v/s large ring has nothing to do with quality or functionality.

I am referring to the fact that many improvements came with the first "large-ring" Mauser: better gas handling in case of case failure, stronger reciever ring, safety lug, et cetera. True, some rare variants (like the G33/40 you mentioned) that have large-ring features on recievers with small-ring diameters, but the fact remains that one generally came after (and was an improvement on) the other.

We can get into further esoterica ("LRSSM" guns, like Turks) but generally, when one refers to "large-ring" and "small-ring" folks get what you mean: newer, bigger Mausers, and older, smaller Mausers. One can say "Don't shoot .308 through that Fucile Reformada-7, because it has older metallurgy, no safety lug, and a smaller-diameter reciever ring!", or one can say "Don't shoot .308 through that FR-7, 'cause it's a small-ring Mauser!"

Lets not kid anyone, there outrageous in price.

Define "outrageous". One man's "outrageous" may be another man's "pocket change".

Isn't there a saying that goes something like, "Do not believe what a politician says but watch what he actually does."

I am willing to bet you did not pay anywhere near what Mitchel charges for his rebuilds either.

I didn't pay too much less (three bills or so, if you must know), and it ain't near as pretty. But it's a non-marked pre-'68 import, which I kinda wanted. Some folks could give a rip about "provenance"; they just want a pretty gun that's been thoroughly checked out as a good shooter.

For those who are extemely rich the Mitchel Mausers offer instant gradification but for most of us who work for a living...

You know, four bills or so ain't all that much in the world of guns these days. That's a Ruger revolver, half a Bushmaster, a used Glock; that's hardly "extremely rich" territory.

[Tamara]

Well you guys all did it to me. All these damn beautiful pictures of your fabulous Mauser Rifles are going to keep me up tonight thinking about my next purchase of another fabulous Mauser Rifle.

For you, man? Anything...

1900 was a good year in Stockholm. :cool:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=184378

[Tamara]

'Nuther view:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=184386

[cratz2]

I'll put it mildly as well, that 1909 looks very nice... I'd be proud to have it in my collection.

[Stinger]

And, yes, I am referring to the Mauser! :D

Stinger

[Cosmoline]

The more Mausers I collect and shoot, the less convinced I am that the '98 pattern is some sort of absolute ideal. Even on the smoothest Persians, the bolt is still slower than earlier Mausers, Mosins or the Enfields. In addition, there's a real question whether the extra locking lug and larger receiver gives any extra safety advantage.

Also, most of the '98 military mausers on the market today at an affordable price are toward the bottom of the mauser barrel. Most, frankly, were either made outside the main plants and without Austrian or German engineers to help (like the Yugos), or are parts guns.

I recently picked up a '91 Argentine that redefined for me what a quality Mauser can be. The wood for the stock isn't just good, it's excellent. After over 100 years there is no warpage and no splits. That doesn't happen by accident. The wood must be carefully chosen and this wood was. The bolt, an early cock-on-closing design, is very fast and extremely smooth. In addition, the weight and balance--often poor on later military mausers--is perfect. This is s a sleek, slender rifle designed and built at a time when Mauser was still having to work hard for contracts.

[Tamara]

In addition, the weight and balance--often poor on later military mausers--is perfect.

Tell me about it; from a sheer toting and shooting standpoint, I wouldn't trade three of my byf 98k's for one Swede carbine like the one I photographed above. It's handy, fast and graceful in a way no 98 ever was...

[twoblink]

8mm is great... But I still prefer the Mauser in a 308. Shares the same diet as my M1A!

Logistical!!

Tanks? Oh yeah! these things are solid... I mean SOLID.

[ballistic gelatin]

I mentioned in my first post that some Mausers were coming in soon, well...they're here and one of them is an Argentino 1893. It appears to be in good shape. Is that a good one? What cartridge does it fire? I'll post a pic when I can. Of course there are a few others I can choose from. The guy wants me to take the Argentino for $85. He said he already has one...give me guidance.

<QUICKEDIT>

I just loaded up a 1909 Argentine. Looks good. It does not say what ammo it uses. Anybody got the answer? The same price applies = $85. The guy wants me to take it home clean it up, find out what ammo, and if I still want it, bring him the money. WOW!

[Cosmoline]

All the original Argentines I know of, whether '91's or 1909's, fire the original Mauser smokeless cartridge--the 7.65x53 Belgian/Argentine. I've been working up some handloads for my '91 and posting the results in the handloading section of Parallax's boards. So far the results are quite impressive for such an old rifle.

The cartridge itself is similar to the modern 7.62 NATO, its great grandson. It all came full circle in some respects. The 7.65 begat the 7x57, which begat the .30'06, which begat the 7.62 NATO/.308. The 7.65 can be loaded very hot, beyond the .308. I wouldn't try that with a '91, though.

You can find cheap Argentine "San Francisco" surplus Berdan-primed stuff at many gunshows and on line. I found some for $3 per 20. It's good stuff, but the '91's seem to do best with big RN bullets over 200 grains fired at low velocities.

[Bainx]

Folks, all this talk and photos of pristine Mausers makes me want to cry! All I got is a ragged Turk and a Yugo.

Note to myself: reset priorities.

[ballistic gelatin]

7.65 x 53.....where can I get a "price check" on the internet?
Is that cartridge fairly easy to come by at gun shows or whatever?
The rifle is very nice and for $85, man.
BUT if I can't get ammo for it, what's the use?
I could always opt for one of the other well worn mausers for $75 or $80.

Advice?

[Mike Irwin]

There's very little surplus 7.65 ammo avilable these days, unfortunately. I think most of it came in prior to 1969, and the last of it around 1991.

It's relatively easy to form the cases from .30-06, though, using a cutoff die. Tedious, but easy.

[Cosmoline]

I've still been able to find surplus stuff locally (Anchorage). Around town here it tends to sit on the shelf for a long, long time because so few shoot these rifles. You can still find a lot of it on Gunbroker and other places. Just punch in a google search.

Norma brass is $$, but I've been able to do just as well with re-formed 7x57 and .30'06. The rims are identical, you're just "de-evolving" the more modern cartridge to its root. It's as simple as it gets for making your own brass. It's fun, esp. if you can hook up a power drill to your trimmer ;-)

Bullets are a bigger problem. The cartridge standard is .313", and you cannot find bullets in .313" anymore, just .311" and sometimes .312". I've found a source for custom .313" bullets, and these have worked out great. Not too pricey, either:

www.angelfire.com/biz7/spshooting/

[Mike Irwin]

"7x57... you're just "de-evolving" the more modern cartridge to its root."

I'm not 100% certain, as I'm away from my references, but I'm pretty certain that the 7x57 predates the 7.63x53 by some time.

[Cosmoline]

http://www.chuckhawks.com/7-65x53.htm

When you're on line, you always have a reference book--Chuck Hawks! The 7.65 goes back to 1889, and was introduced with the Belgian Mausers.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/7mm.htm

The 7x57 came a few years later with the Spanish Mausers.

The earliest modern Mauser cartridge is probably the old-style 8x57, which came out in 1888 with the Commission rifles.

[Okiecruffler]

Man, why can't I fall into a deal like that. Maybe it's time to pick up a few more mausers.

No...must...complete...Mosin...collection...must...not...yield...to... temptation...
:banghead:

[ballistic gelatin]

What's a 1909 Argentino worth?
Mine looks just like Harry B's but the bolt handle is curved down in a more modern fashion.

Aside from the ammo cost/availability and the front sight needing to be secured, it seems like a great deal. It's actually a lot nicer fit and finish than what I asked for or expected.

I was looking for an 8mm that I could knock around with and pump lots of ammo through without worry.

[Clemson]

SOG is selling 7.65 x 53 mm Mauser ammo now. It is quite reasonably priced, probably corrosive, but for the price worth swabbing the bore after shooting.

[ballistic gelatin]

what is SOG?

[Tamara]

"Southern Ohio Gun". They're a fairly large wholesaler, like CDNN.

[ballistic gelatin]

They don't have that ammo listed on their website.

[Clemson]

Call them. It is listed in their latest flyer (arrived at my house yesterday). As I recall it was something like $96 for 750 rounds, but don't hold me to it. I don't have the flyer in my hands.

[ballistic gelatin]

These are the pics of the 1909 Argentino. I cleaned it last night and I sort of LOVE it. Now to get some ammo and head out to a high power rifle shoot. Did I mention the $85 price tag?

[ballistic gelatin]

again

[ballistic gelatin]

finally

[Clemson]

That appears to be an Argentine "Engineer's Carbine" that someone has swapped an altered bolt for scope mounting into. It did not originally have that handle. Regardless, you have a nice gun there. There is no way that you could get machine work like that on a production rifle today. The amazing part is that the gun is a MILITARY piece.

[Tamara]

Did I mention the $85 price tag?

Did we mention that we're all bright green with envy? ;)

[NEtracker]

I'd like one of those Swedish Mausers, but I'm busy cleaning up a couple M1903's.
Here's my Yugo M48, unissued...

http://www.picturefuse.com/picdetail.php?picid=16480

Taking it out for some fresh air this Sunday!
Supposed to be Sunny Range weather.

[ballistic gelatin]

Carbine? It's like 5 1/2 feet.
I'm so excited. This is my first C&R firearm.

[Tamara]

Carbine? It's like 5 1/2 feet.

...and the "S" in "SMLE" stands for "short", and the "Kar" in " Kar 98k" stands for "karabin". It's all relative, man; it changes with the times. ;)

[Mike Irwin]

But the SMLE isn't a carbine.

It was longer than the standard carbine then in British service, but shorter than the standard infantry rifle.

It was one of the first of the "general purpose" rifles designed to be issued to all members of a nation's military.

Other nations kept the rifle for infantry, carbine for cavalry and support troops for some years after that.

[Tamara]

My point was that "short" (or "carbine" or "kurz" or what-have-you) is often a relative term. "Short" as compared to what? ;)

My M44 and Krag "carbines" are longer than my HK91 "full-size battle rifle".

[ballistic gelatin]

Anyone know what kind of resale value this thing might have?

[cracked butt]

Being that its very old its probably extremely dangerous to shoot..:scrutiny:
I'll give you the $85 you paid for it +shipping and handling so that the rifle can be disposed of in a way that it shouldn't hurt anyone.:D :cool:

[DamnedDirtyApe]

That is not an Engineers carbine, it is a standard '09 long rifle. An Engineers carbine would be stocked to the muzzle, have large sight ears on the front sight, and have a prominent bayonet lug underneath the front end. The bolt, however does appear to be unoriginal. BTW I am DDA's son, not DDA.:eek:

[Clemson]

Nope, the cavalry carbine is stocked to the muzzle with the sight wings. The engineer's carbine has a bit of barrel sticking out. I have both.

[Lochaber]

While many good thing were already said about the Mausers, some people put down the $39 specials. Please do no be deceived. Some of those guns are incredible and even if you get a lemon .. you are still out about $39 which is not a bad price for a wall hanger.

My first was a $100 Yugo reworked 98k from CDNN and my other two are cheapo turks. They all shoot better then I can. I will admit that the turks looked like a sticks someone used to mix a bucket of tar when they got to my house, but half the fun of playing with mil-surplus guns is restoring them to some form of their former glory.

Here are a couple of pics of mine.

These first few are one of my restored Turks:

http://lochaber.badcrack.com/pics/P2190286.JPG
http://lochaber.badcrack.com/pics/P2190288.JPG

Both my turks:

http://lochaber.badcrack.com/pics/P2190292.JPG

And finally all my three Mausers:

http://lochaber.badcrack.com/pics/P2190300.JPG


Please dont let the snobs convince you that you have to buy the rarest nicesest guns to enjoy a good Mauser. Sure, a unissued Persian makes my heart sing but I dont have $600 to spend on one. Sure the rare 98k snipers are great but not for $2k. And I have my heart set on a Swead for my next Mauser but a good one is going to set me back about $350 which is a lot of ammo I can shoot in my other ones.

I have yet to see a Mauser I didnt like, and some of the nicer ones are incredible, but dont give up because you cant afford the pretty ones. Not only are under $100 guns often great rifles, but they may be worth a lot more latter. Those 98k snipers were a lot cheaper 40 years ago.

Loch

[Bainx]

Darn, Lochaber, thats some good lookin Turks you got there. I have not lifted a finger to restore mine. You just gave me the reason to get going on it!

[HarryB]

Please dont let the snobs convince you that you have to buy the rarest nicesest guns to enjoy a good Mauser. Sure, a unissued Persian makes my heart sing but I dont have $600 to spend on one. Sure the rare 98k snipers are great but not for $2k. And I have my heart set on a Swead for my next Mauser but a good one is going to set me back about $350 which is a lot of ammo I can shoot in my other ones.

Snobs? Please...

There is simply no arguing a pre WWI European made Mauser is of finer quality than one made later. I don't think anyone put done anothers choice at all Lochaber. If you shop around and get lucky, you can get a bargain. I bought 3 Swedes and an Argentine, and each time the tag was less than $200. I still want a Yugo, and I even just dropped $60 on some filth that had a Finn VKT Mosin 91 hiding in it.

Nice looking Turks by the way--how do they shoot?

[Lochaber]

Bainx, I wish you best of luck. It was sure fun redoing mine. I recommend that you spend some time on the Parallax forum first, reading all you can about wood restoration and metal finishes. I couldnt do it without all the advice there.


As for the "snobs" comment, it was tounge in cheek. I will never argue with what people spend their money on, but many will make a sour face at cheap stuff like the turks. And yes I know that some of the prices I quoted are high for most places, but here in NJ, were we dont get gun shows and the dealers prefer to stock $1k guns (for the most part) prices are higher. Even online buying gets pricier with transfer fees and such (no C&R for me yet). And you will get no argument from me on the quality of some of the older 98s and 96s.

The Turks shoot good. The worst looking one (lighter color in the pics) outshoots me by a quite a bit. I can hit a paper plate at 100 yards most of the time and for me thats very good with open sights. The "nicer" one used to shoot minute-of-beach-ball which is why I made it a project gun for trying out various restoring techniques. I havent got the chance to shoot it since I finshed it. We had a long, wet and nasty winter here and I didnt want to take that finished wood out in it yet. It might shoot better now after I smoother out the barrel channel and refitted the action. Part of the problem with the Turks is that many had their stocks replaced and they were not well fitted.

The one thing I will complain about regarding the turks are the sights which are have a way to shallow rear sight, without any degree of sharpness, which might explain why I cant shoot them any better. The difference is very obvious when you put the 98k and the Turks side by side, and I do shoot my 98k better.

Loch

[ballistic gelatin]

Well since this is my first C&R rifle (1909 Argentine) and it only cost me $85 with matching numbers (minus the bolt), I'm pretty happy. I can't wait to shoot it. I would have preferred a beat up 8mm so I didn't have to worry about scratching it or getting that slightly more expensive 7.65mm ammo.

Does anybody know what it's worth on resale? And puh-lease don't say $85.

[HarryB]

Does anybody know what it's worth on resale? And puh-lease don't say $85.

Anywhere from $100 to $400 dollars...

Is is all matching? How do the cartouches on the stock and handguard look? Are they sanded over? That ammo is corrosive--how does the bore look? Is the crown okay--most soldiers used that metal rod on the muzzle end. The bolt mystery is a big iffy. It may be the original and was bent or it may be from a 1909 carbine(?) as mentioned before, or it may be a cheapo replacement.

It's worth what someone will pay...

Do you want it to start your collection or to resell at a profit?

[Clemson]

Unfortunately, the bolt modification ruins it for collectability. Just enjoy it as a shooter. 99.8% of all Argentine Mausers are matching except for the bolt.

[HarryB]

Actually its a K98k that was captured and completely scrubbed by the Yugoslavian people. Excellent condition for a milsurp. I wanted a shooter and my Swede, Swiss, and Argy cost a little too much when all that surplus 8mm is out there. Just gotta wait a week or so to pick it up.

[ballistic gelatin]

99.8% of all Argentine Mausers are matching except for the boltI visited the local gunsmith this week and he showed me hist 1909 Argentine with original bolt. However, his had a new short barrel, rear peep sight, and total piece of crap stock.

[10xsniper]

Any Ideas On How To On Were To Look For A 98k Mauser Action?i Dont Need The Whole Gun Im Going To Build A Custom Rifle For Long Range Practice.

[Okiecruffler]

Depending which cartridge you are using I would go with a M48 or a VZ24 action. Cheaper and the results will be the same.

[cracked butt]

I would nix the m48 entirely and use a vz-24 action.:cool:

[Vaarok]

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v709/Vaarok/98nsword.jpg

DWM, 1905, Gew98. Glorious.

"Vertroue en Gott und die Mauser" wasn't just a marketing gimmick, they're sweet rifles.

I do feel they're inferior in terms of design as a military, because they have so many features they're a bit complicated to manufacture and the features are of dubious utility most of the time, but by the same token the machining and woodwork on most non-wartime Mausers is phenomenal.

[dirtyjim]

you can never have to many mausers, these are just the ones that are in one peice. i have 6 or 7 more that i'm reworking, fixing or restoring.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/dirtyjim/mausers.jpg
from left to right there is a swede m96 with a tigerstripe stock, a pair of czech 98/22's, a pair of czech vz-24's one has a tiger stripe stock, a chinese copy of a banner mauser, a geha 12 guage mauser shotgun, a fn columbian 30-06 sporter, a parker hale 1200 super 308, a mint j.c. higgins .270, & a pre-war guild rifle with color case hardened reciever, bolt, bottom metal,DST, & a ribbed barrel