Should I register my guns to shoot on-post?


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Pinned&Recessed
June 25, 2005, 04:26 PM
I'm in a spot.

Ft. Polk has a world-class shooting range. 500-meter rifle, 60-meter pistol ranges, awesome shotgun set-ups for trap, skeet and 5-stand. Archery too. Only restriction is no full-auto. Everything else is cool; rapid-fire, FMJ ammo, etc.

They have high-power matches, unit shooting competitions and combat handgun matches all the time.

I really want to go shooting there, plus it is convenient, cheap as heck too. This sounds great right?

Problem is, since I'm assigned there, I need to register my guns with the PMO to even transport them to and from the range. :fire: :banghead:

I think this is bullcrap. 95% of the reason I am living off-post is so I don't have to register my guns. They have no right to know what I own.

The only other range is a long way away and it sucks.

Should I just say "screw it" and register them all? Or not register any and not shoot and let my skills go to crap?

I'm thinking of registering a few select arms and just shoot them for skill maintenance.

The thing is, all my guns except one rifle and two handguns are already on either a 4473 or bought through a C&R FFL, so there already is a papertrail.

Advice, thoughts?

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Jim Watson
June 25, 2005, 04:29 PM
Your last paragraph is right, the guns are already in your name. Sign them in and have a good time with them. Buy something at a gun show anonymously to bury in the back yard.

The Grand Inquisitor
June 25, 2005, 04:32 PM
This may be heresy is some quarters, and it may also not be feasible if things are checked tightly, but what about registering one or two of your firearms, and just letting the others slide?

Obviously this wouldn't work if they checked everything when you came in to the base, but if things are a little more lax, it's not going to hurt anyone to stick it to the man and not obey a stupid rule.

Pinned&Recessed
June 25, 2005, 04:41 PM
I've spoken to a few other people who say "just go back and forth and don't worry about it." They don't check at the gate, the only concern is if I get stopped.

I am inclined to do this, or to do what you say (register a couple and then take them all if I want).

BUT,

if I am stopped by the MPs (not hard, imagine bored 20-year olds patrolling a post; they'll stop you for one-over and anything else just to have something to do). Anyway, If I am stopped and I have unregistered weapons (or don't have my registration papers) in the car, I am arrested, they start UCMJ action and my career is done.

ksnecktieman
June 25, 2005, 04:47 PM
From the edge of Fort Riley Kansas I can tell you,,, you do NOT take any on post without registering them. Random vehicle inspections at the gate. It is required here to stop and show drivers license. I agree that since they already have a paper trail you are losing nothing. I have a few of mine registered on post, so I can hunt on Fort Riley.

Hawkmoon
June 25, 2005, 04:53 PM
You have already acknowledged that if you get stopped with an unregistered firearm on post, your career is done. So it kind of sounds like that's one of those theoretical options that really isn't much of an option at all.

So your real-world choices are: (a) leave the guns off-post and don't shoot on post; (b) register the guns and shoot on post.

I can't make that decision for you, nor should it. Which is more important to you -- shooting, or not registering the guns with the post?

pythonguy
June 25, 2005, 04:59 PM
Call me stupid, but why do you care so much if your guns are registered? I live in NY so its all I have known as we have to be licensed and register each handgun with the PD, and the rifles we buy have a federal form with all the buyer info. Why would you, or anyone else want a non-registered gun? I mean, if its for legal use there is no problem, right? In all my years of owning many registered handguns I've never gotten any questions from the PD. Enlighten me.

Old NFO
June 25, 2005, 05:01 PM
+1 on Hawkmoon. I would register and do it legal. Your career is more important than trying to skirt that particular rule...

Pinned&Recessed
June 25, 2005, 05:14 PM
Y'all are right. I'll knuckle under and register them. Still burns my 4th point of contact though.

Pythonguy:

My reluctance comes from living in a Free state where registration is not required for ownership. It's the Principle of the thing. No one has the right to know what I own except me.

pythonguy
June 25, 2005, 06:40 PM
I hear ya Pinned&Recessed, I've been in the "cage" so to speak here in New York as I've lived here all my life. It gets annoying with the permits and having to drag ALL your handguns to the police station (I have 13 currently) when its time to renew my permit. And the AWB that is now a state ban here in NY sucks too, I was glad I moved out of NYC as it was an impossible hassle getting a pistol permit and I needed a permit for the rifles I owned even. I guess I'm just thankful to have what I do, I bet in 100 years there will be no guns allowed in NY with the political thought processes that both parties have here.

The Grand Inquisitor
June 25, 2005, 06:45 PM
I agree, although in principle there is no reason you should register your firearms, the fact is is that if it came down to it, losing your military career with a Dishonorable discharge (I assuming here) would be pretty sh|tty.

Pinned&Recessed
June 25, 2005, 07:07 PM
True.

I am just REALLY shocked at how anti-RKBA the military is.

Cesiumsponge
June 25, 2005, 07:32 PM
Enlisted members of the military can bring (and store?) their own firearms on base? I was going to start a thread asking this because I wasn't sure what to do with my firearms when I go to enlist.

If you don't mind a small tangent, what's involved in this? Someone told me it depends on the base and that the armorer might have access to it which made me a bit nervous. Then again I'm not fond of putting my firearms away into storage somewhere far away from me.

Pinned&Recessed
June 25, 2005, 07:44 PM
It has to be stored in the arms room. It is handled regularly by the armorer for serial number checks. I've also heard horror stories about people coming back to find their guns dirty (the armorer or someone shot it) and rusty from fingerprints and handling. It ain't theirs, so they don't care.

Also, it has to be registered with the PMO (Provost Marshall's Office, MPs, Post Cops, whatever). The forms are extensive and have to be filled out in triplicate. Once copy for you, one for the arms room and one for the PMO. You are given a registration card to keep with you at all times you have the weapon. If you are in posession of the weapon, but not the card, even if it IS registered, you are in deep doodoo. Also, registration of a weapon, on ANY post, puts it in a world-wide DoD database.

You also need a memo signed by your Company Commander acknowledging and authorizing the weapon to be stored in the arms room.

You need to get permission (usually written permission and three days in advance) to check your weapon out. It must be checked back in by the Close Of the Business day and cannot be transported into any building or barracks.

Some posts are different, but that's the short version. It CAN be more involved. Owning weapons while enlisted and living in the barracks REALLY sucks and they make it as hard as possible.

Powderman
June 25, 2005, 07:47 PM
C-sponge, it looks like you are at Ft. Lewis, or McChord.

I ran two arms rooms on Ft. Lewis, many moons ago. I will tell you what I know.

First of all, if you live in the barracks, your POW's (personally owned weapons) WILL be registered with your unit. They WILL be stored in the unit arms room, and will be inventoried by serial number on a monthly basis. This means that the unit armorer will be handling your firearms--along with any other tom, dick and harry that he likes. If you must store firearms in the arms room, take them in in a locked case. Open it to verify the serial number, then lock it in the armorer's presence and ask him to put a seal on it.

To remove the weapons from the arms room, you must submit DA Form 2404 (a DF, don't know if that's changed), through your chain of command to your Commander, informing him of your desire to withdraw the weapon from the arms room.

You must tell them why they are being withdrawn, where they will be, what you will be doing with them, and when they will be back. By the way, don't be late.

Or, you can store them off post, and not worry about it. See the info on post registration below, though, if you plan to shoot on post.

If you live in Gov't quarters, you will register all firearms on the post with the Provost Marshal. You may keep firearms and ammunition in your quarters.

However, the registration card must be with the firearm at all times when you are transporting the firearm on post.

People who own and possess firearms who live off post are not subject to any additional restrictions, other than the State laws in effect at your location.

That being said, should you decide to shoot on post (on Ft. Lewis, the MWR range for rifle and pistol is Range 15), your POW must be registered. However, other than that the military exercises no influence over your firearms--as long as they are off post.

Need more details? Best bet is to talk to the Provost Marshal's office. IIRC, the number for the MP station is 967-3110---I think.

RoyG
June 25, 2005, 08:43 PM
On Fort Bragg we no longer have to register guns when only going to the range.

XVIII Airborne Corps and Fort Bragg
Regulation 190-12
3-1. Requirements for transporting firearms. No person may transport a firearm on Fort Bragg unless one of the following requirements is met:
a. The individual is directly transporting (without stopping at intermediate locations) the firearm from or to a place of authorized storage, hunting area, firing range, gun or repair shop, or location authorized in writing by the unit commander; or,
b. The individual is traversing Fort Bragg from one off-post location to another off-post location using a publicly traveled roadway, without stopping within the confines of the installation.

Roadkill
June 25, 2005, 09:04 PM
I'm retired Army and don't hunt on Redstone Arsenal cause of the restrictions and they have some of the best deer hunting in N. Alabama. Bottom line is if you want to use their facilities then you have to go by their rules. If it was the only place I had to hunt or shoot then I'd suck it up and do it. Sneaking on the post with unregistered guns is like slamming a few beers and driving there, might get caught, might not. Not worth it.

rk

nipprdog
June 25, 2005, 09:17 PM
Buy something at a gun show anonymously to bury in the back yard.

good food for the antis.... :rolleyes:

Cesiumsponge
June 25, 2005, 09:40 PM
C-sponge, it looks like you are at Ft. Lewis, or McChord.

Not enlisted right now, but I plan to at the end of the year with hopes of being stationed at Ft Lewis after all training and schools are said and done so I still have family nearby.

The whole thing sounds like a bit PITA. The treatment of my firearms also seems to be a gamble depending on the armorer present but can be cured with a locked case. Yet, I don't like the idea of my firearms being registered into a worldwide database and the paperwork sooooo... I think I would be better off leaving them in the care of my younger brother and swinging by to pick them up if I wanted to use them in my downtime assuming I get planted in WA.

In the event I get stuck with living on base in a different state and I have no family or friends nearby that can store firearms for me, are there any good solutions besides storing them on base and having to put up with the aforementioned potential horrors?

Sorry, I feel like I'm hijacking the thread :o

Bob R
June 25, 2005, 09:49 PM
At Ft Sill, I like the facility, it was convienent, and I didn't care if the PM knew what I had. Most were bought with a 03 FFL and others have a 4473. Like you said, it has one of the best ranges in the area. That would be enough for me to register the ones I want to shoot on a regular baisis.

bob

Hook686
June 25, 2005, 10:27 PM
Today 03:32 PM
Cesiumsponge asked:




Enlisted members of the military can bring (and store?) their own firearms on base? I was going to start a thread asking this because I wasn't sure what to do with my firearms when I go to enlist.

When I was in the USAF and lived in the barracks, enlisted troops had to register and store their personal firearms with the Air Police.

Good Luck and ....

Happy Shooting :)

Hook686

jefnvk
June 25, 2005, 11:35 PM
To me, it was really a non-issue when I had to register my guns with Puiblic Safety to keep them at school.

In principle, no, I don't think they should register, if a crime is committed, most likely it will be with a gun that wasn't registered anyways, or stole, so it probably isn't effective.

All the guns were 4473'd anyway, so it is not like they got any more info on them.

IZinterrogator
June 26, 2005, 01:27 AM
When you register guns at post, the record is kept locally. When you PCS to another duty station, you have to go un-register them. They throw away the record when you do that. Just go shoot and have fun.

I wish that Fort Hood had a range like that. I have to drive about an hour to shoot at a range that is even close to that. :(

Cesiumsponge, if you live in the barracks and store your weapons on post, they have to be stored in the arms room and are a pain to get out sometimes. Find someone you really trust and keep them off-post at their house. It is much easier than asking permission to use your own guns.

Cesiumsponge
June 26, 2005, 01:49 AM
The kicker is you have to ask permission to use your own firearms and that your guns have a specified "bed time". It's like being 8 years old all over again.

I suppose if there is no alternative...but I'll have to see when the time comes. I think it'd also depend on if there are actual gun ranges in the area I'm stationed at within reasonable distance. If there are none, I'm going to have to use base facilities. If base facilities are great, I'd probably be willing to put up with more but there are too many "what ifs" right now.

Anyone recommend those Public Storage facilities? I see on their website that 5x5' public storage facilities are $50 a month, but I'm not too keen on how safe stored items are and I'm cheapo. Ahh well, can't win!

No_Brakes23
June 26, 2005, 04:13 AM
When I was living in milHousing aboard MCAS Yuma, I babysat quite a variety of weapons for my barracks Marines...

When I would go shooting aboard MCAS Miramar, (East Miramar actually,) I never registered anything.

But I think the best bet is to regist er the stuff you want to shoot on base, CYA, ya know.

BluesBear
June 26, 2005, 06:31 AM
Cesiumsponge stay FAR FAR Away from Public Storage! (I used to work for them as well as some independents.) Trust me thay ain't no bargain. My brother is still in the mini-storage business albeit now in Lost Wages.
You'd be much better off with an independent mini-storage company. One with resident managers who are either the owners or who have been there for a long time.
Make friends with them. If they like you they are more apt to look out for you.
Stay away from places with 24 hour access. Every break-in I have investigated at a mini-storage was tied in to someone who also rented space there. Get a unit as close to the office as possible. Especially stay away from inside units far from the office. Get a unit where you can drive your car right up to the door.
Consider a "safe" even if it's only one of the cheaper ones. Just make sure it's too big and heavy to quickly load into a van or station wagon. If you store your guns in cases chain them together with a HEAVY chain and lock. It a;so helps to chain them to some metal shelves. You want to make it too bulky to move without attracting attention.

But the most important things is...

Do NOT get behind in your payments!

In Washington state, after 45 days of no payments your stuff can go bye-bye.
I know because I lost 95% of everything I owned when I was hospitalized last year.

ksnecktieman
June 26, 2005, 07:09 AM
One of the local storage places here, just on the edge of Fort Riley even advertises "storage for firearms" I have no other details. If your area has a market for it I am sure someone there is doing it too.

C-grunt
June 26, 2005, 01:38 PM
DO IT!!!

I didnt register mine and i got in trouble when i was shooting in the woods someplace i thought was off post.

the boundries are approximate and they change.

ID_shooting
June 26, 2005, 01:56 PM
I guess I was easyer on the troops in my company who had POWs in my arms room. They all had to be registered with the Provost and I issued a weapons card for each one. I talked to CO into giving me a signature card to the signout forms, I forget the form #, anyway, my fellow barracks troops and I had an understanding that I was available 24-7 for them to check thier guns out, if I had plans to be gone, all they had to do was make an appointment or check with my assistant. I never grilled or questioned anyone as to what why and where they took thier guns, I just took at as part of the job. ya, being unit armorer was a PITA, but it kept me off many BS details.

As for security, I procured lock boxes for both long and short guns, the troops and top had the keys to the boxes and I just had to call them in once a month for inventory.

Stauble
June 26, 2005, 02:08 PM
i wouldn't do it because i dont want any more paper cause when Hilary is elected you'll be that much easier to find. its true that there is already a small paper trail but you could say you sold those guns years ago.
if you register them at the range then they will know that you had them recently ( and shoot them alot)
plus i just dont like strangers knowin wat i have at home. :)

Sam
June 26, 2005, 02:12 PM
In the AF base housing occupants are generally permitted to keep thier weapons in their quarters.
Barracks rats have to store theirs in the armory at Security Forces.
All are registered on an AF1314 and signed by their commander or 1st Sgt.

In 1978 I caught one of the armorers from Lackland in the act of shooting my 1909 New Service. He went from E6 to E2 overnight.

Since that time I have always provided my troops courtesy storage off the yard. When I made my diamond, I encouraged the other off base residents to do the same for their troops, even for those who could have retained their weapons in quarters.
Paid big dividends for the troops and the supervisors and kept 1 out of jail on a trumped up assault charge because we could proved he didn't have posession of the pistol in question :D .

Go ahead and register the things, the 1314 gets pitched when you clear the base anyway at least for the Air Force.

Sam

Lennyjoe
June 26, 2005, 10:43 PM
When I lived on base in base housing (Air Force) I had to submit a form to the orderly room with the serial number and type of weapons I had in the house. Not required to check them into the armory. Living off base, I dont have to register crap. Whenever I come on base with my CCW or any weapon then it has to be unloaded and the ammo and weapon seperated.

When I go TDY and have weapons I have to check them into the armory. Fill out a form, have the unit commander that I'm TDY to sign it and return the form to the armory. Check in and out weapons anytime I want them. Which was every time I went off base for food, ride or whatever. Nothing else required.

I guess the Army is a little more strict.

bogie
June 26, 2005, 11:09 PM
It's the Army. That means that if there can be paperwork about something, there _will_ be paperwork about it, in triplicate, filed, and generally ignored otherwise.

CZ-100
June 27, 2005, 05:35 PM
Just do what has to be done, and go have FUN!

AlaskaErik
June 28, 2005, 12:20 AM
I don't care if the JBTs know what I have. They can take them, for all I care. I won't make a big fuss about it when they're at my door, armed to the hilt and ready to take me down at the slightest hint of resistance. Because, guess what? Did Prohibition stop the flow of booze? Has the WOD stopped the flow of illegal drugs? If America is ever totally disarmed, the black market will soon have a veritable bazaar of firearms available. So don't sweat it.

Ed
June 28, 2005, 09:14 AM
I registered two at Fort Sill. Kept them in the BOQ. Registered one on Fort Carson to hunt with. I was the Battery Arms room officer and we had something like 2 rifles and 5 cheap big ugly knifes in it that were personal. NOONE EVER took the weapons out and fired them without the owner knowing. Someone has some BAD lax security if that is happening.

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