Why are certain shotguns DDs?


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kal
June 25, 2005, 11:13 PM
I've heard that semi auto USAS12 and Stryker shotguns are classified as a DD by the ATF. But why? You can have 9-12 shot capacity semi auto, tube fed shotguns with pistols grips and everything but it seems like you just cant have a shotgun like that with a detachable magazine. Is it because of the magazine or am I missing something here?

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Cesiumsponge
June 25, 2005, 11:15 PM
I'll add more confusion to the mix

The Saiga 12 is a semi-automatic box magazine fed shotgun that is shipped in the US with a 5 round magazine. People are importing 8-round magazines which places it close to a USAS-12 but it hasn't been ruled a DD (yet...)

Telperion
June 25, 2005, 11:28 PM
US Code, Title 26, §5845:

(f) The term “destructive device” means
...
(2) any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes; ...

If the bore diameter exceeds .5" (12 ga. = .729"), a DD is whatever the ATF says is a DD, thanks to the "sporting purpose" clause.

beerslurpy
June 25, 2005, 11:32 PM
Because Clinton's attorney general declared them to be DDs and Bush or his pro-gun attorney general hasnt taken them off the list.

RINOs.

TheOtherOne
June 25, 2005, 11:45 PM
Bush or his pro-gun attorney general hasnt taken them off the list.Yeah, what's with that? You would think they could at least throw us a little bone and get rid of this and 922r. It's not like it matters anymore if he pisses off the anti-gunners come next election.

beerslurpy
June 26, 2005, 12:00 AM
No no they dont even have to go to the legislature. They can administratively choose to remove from ban:
-all "unsporting shotguns"
-all "unsporting imported rifles and pistols"

Its a power granted to them by congress by the 68 gun control act. It is a power that any future democratic president could abuse or any current republican one could use in service of the constitution.

I sent Bush and Ashcroft numerous emails asking them to do this to show that they were on the side of gun owners and I received no response.

I voted for badnarik.

On a side note, I did vote for all the local pro-gun republican politicians. My rep sponsored the national CCW reciprocity bill and the DC ban repeal so far this year. No action taken on Ron Paul's bill, tho I am not surprised by that.

kal
June 26, 2005, 12:05 AM
OK, lets say the ATF decides that the Saiga 12 is a DD and it's going to be in effect by July 1st. If I bought my Saiga 12 before that date, would I still have to register it as a DD or forfeit it because the state doesnt allow it or will they just let me have it?

beerslurpy
June 26, 2005, 12:13 AM
In the past they let you register it as a DD with no fee or anything. Transfers were 200 dollars past that point. Also, since it was unsporting it couldnt be imported anymore and supply tried up. I bought my saiga for 190 bucks and they are up to nearly 500 now. And this is only because of the temporary freezeup due to EAA and Izhmash gettying angry with one another. I imagine the price will come back down when they start getting imported again.

USAS12s and similar are priced like transferrable machine guns after only 10 years.

Standing Wolf
June 26, 2005, 12:24 AM
I sent Bush and Ashcroft numerous emails asking them to do this to show that they were on the side of gun owners and I received no response.
I voted for badnarik.

Bush didn't care about your vote or mine: he knew he could take millions of other people's votes for granted.

rock jock
June 26, 2005, 01:12 AM
The Stryker and its American cousin, the Street Sweeper, should be reclassified from DD to POS.

beerslurpy
June 26, 2005, 01:38 AM
POS it may be, but effective and cheap POS nonetheless. The AK and MAC10 are both POSes but they do what they are meant to.

And I think that as an American, I have a right to own a POS gun if I so choose.

Cesiumsponge
June 26, 2005, 01:51 AM
OK, lets say the ATF decides that the Saiga 12 is a DD and it's going to be in effect by July 1st. If I bought my Saiga 12 before that date, would I still have to register it as a DD or forfeit it because the state doesnt allow it or will they just let me have it?

General consensus on the Saiga-12 forum is that if ATF rules the Saiga 12 conversions as a destructive device, then there will be a period where you can be grandfathered for no fee but still required to register it as a DD. If you haven't registered it by the elapsed timeframe set by the ATF, you're going to have to pay the DD tax. I think they came to this conclusion based on similar situations when the USAS-12 was reclassified as a DD.

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