You AND your family go to jail?? Is this for real?


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cpileri
June 28, 2005, 07:58 PM
http://www.gunowners.org/a062805.htm

10 years mandatory for you AND YOUR FAMILY????

Can anyone share some more detail on this if its real and what the particulars are???

C-

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kal
June 28, 2005, 08:50 PM
Thats what Saddam used to do to his people.

beerslurpy
June 28, 2005, 08:58 PM
It kind of pisses me off that we have to constantly fight tooth and nail just to get our government to not screw us and even then we only succeed in losing slower.

sumpnz
June 28, 2005, 09:21 PM
You know, I had to :rolleyes: and :scrutiny: a few times reading that. First off, self defense is an affirmative defense to any crime. If you live in a state that allows CCW, and you're not otherwise in violation of CCW rules, I have a hard time thinking how this could apply.

Also, just spanking your kid or spitting on your spouse will only count as a "Lautenberg" offense if you've been convicted of DV in relation to such an action. Plus, spanking your kid can only count as DV if you're in a "spank-free zone" or other such blissninny area, and then you have to caught and convicted.

It would have also been helpful if they'd included either a link to, or the entire text of the bill and any necessary references. That way we can all read it for ourselves and come to our own comclusions.

R.H. Lee
June 28, 2005, 09:29 PM
They need to keep pushing and push a little harder so we can get this thing on and over with.

Sindawe
June 28, 2005, 09:29 PM
http://thomas.loc.gov/

House is H.R. 1279

Senete is S. 155

sumpnz
June 28, 2005, 10:05 PM
From the text of HR 1279 (see here for full text (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c109:4:./temp/~c109L3xlGk:e1098:)) - emphasis mine `(1) CRIMINAL STREET GANG- The term `criminal street gang' means a formal or informal group or association of 3 or more individuals, who commit 2 or more gang crimes (one of which is a crime of violence other than an offense punishable under subparagraphs (A), (B), or (C) of section 401(b)(1) of the Controlled Substances Act), in 2 or more separate criminal episodes, in relation to the group or association, if any of the activities of the criminal street gang affects interstate or foreign commerce. Notwithstanding the recent Raich vs Gonzales decision a family stopping at a grocery store after church while armed, it would be stretch and a half to apply this statute (unless they were going to cross state lines after buying the food, but even then ... ).

RomanKnight
June 28, 2005, 10:27 PM
Raich vs. Gonzales was a huge, giant, enormous overstretch -and became the law of the land. We've seen what "public use" means. What does "shall not be infriged" mean?

Old Fuff
June 28, 2005, 10:28 PM
The real question is not so much how the law is written, (although that is important) but who would be enforcing it, and how? Think about such a law in the hands of a Bill Clinton. (Some might say Grorge Bush). I see problems in the way it has been drafted, in spite of what might have been good intentions. :uhoh:

rick_reno
June 28, 2005, 10:42 PM
The prison industry is a growth opportunity - nothing wrong with locking Dad, Mom and those brat kids up for 10 years. It'll teach them a lesson. I hope this passes and our freedom loving President signs it. Maybe those zealots who voted for him will wake up when they get enough of this stuff shoved down their throats.

P95Carry
June 28, 2005, 10:53 PM
Maybe Ayn Rand was right all along - keep making more and more laws and then we all commit crimes almost just by breathing. Thus, the ''powers that be'' can succeed in arrest for almost anything.

The 21st century is not off to a very encouraging beginning. :(

sm
June 28, 2005, 11:02 PM
All animals are created equal, just some more equal than others

Sigh...seems Orwell was not off the mark either Chris.

Good thing I quit recognizing folks that are supposed to be my family,don't talk to much less associate with them- now if I just get the schools banned around here...

P95Carry
June 28, 2005, 11:11 PM
Hmmm, Animal farm - good corollary Steve. Was it Napoleon, the big bad pig? I forget - too long since reading but for sure - with Gov and ''us'' - indeed when it comes to equality - many are wanting to be way more equal than others.

Power, greed - self agrandisment - old story but still present and kickin'.

RyanM
June 28, 2005, 11:11 PM
I'm glad PA isn't a 1000 foot state. Though last I checked, they were trying to get a 1000 foot law passed. The phrasing of the law specifically excempts CCW holders.

Flyboy
June 28, 2005, 11:14 PM
RyanM:

Federal law.

The Feds passed it, SCOTUS threw it out, Congress said "no, we really want this, so we'll add the words 'interstate commerce,'" and it came back. So far, the new version hasn't been challenged, but Raich doesn't leave me with much hope.

P95Carry
June 28, 2005, 11:16 PM
Ryan - if they can't getcha with one law then be sure, another will be along to close loopholes. I think I am beginning to know how an apple feels in a cider press.

I still have Ayn Rand in mind all the time - she is being proved right by (insidious) increments. And she wrote Atlas Shrugged IIRC back in 1957!!!!!!

RyanM
June 28, 2005, 11:46 PM
Darn. :(

cpileri
June 28, 2005, 11:47 PM
All of a sudden, in the last short weeks an onslaught of egregious overreaching legislation comes down the pike/from scotus, wherever???

I mean, overreaching has been happening incrementally for decades, but these last few: Everything is commerce and can be regulated, govt can steal your house at will, and now we can arrest your whole family- not just the alleged perp.

My suspicious side has me thinking that they are either (or both):
1. pushing hard to draw out the patriots, so as to be able to end the 'patriot menace' with finality; and/or
2. they are on a timetable known only to them to meet some sort of totalitarian/uni-government world goals and decided to go full court press.

These last few years (PA1&PA2, creation of DHS/TSa, etc) and now these last few weeks are enough to keep psychiatrists in the money treating patients with acute despondency issues.

C-

P95Carry
June 28, 2005, 11:52 PM
patients with acute despondency issues. Sign me up!!! :mad:

MechAg94
June 29, 2005, 12:28 AM
If the courts get out of control, it doesn't matter what any law says or means, they can stretch into whatever they want as long as the higher court supports them.

Standing Wolf
June 29, 2005, 12:28 AM
We've seen what "public use" means. What does "shall not be infriged" mean?

I think it means the government can't inconvenience the F., the B., and the I., right?

2nd Amendment
June 29, 2005, 12:41 AM
I and others have noted for a long time that there are no "conspiracy theories" where bigger government and global government are concerned. It's all just human nature in action. Sit back and watch and you can see it happeneing, if you aren't blinded by the conspiracy theory that everything is a conspiracy.

And we've been saying the...alterations...have been increasingly swift as of late. Look at the advancements of government from the end of WWII to the early 60's. Then the social engineering and government spread thru the early 80's. Then compare the past 20 years to the previous 2 blocks of time. You can watch and predicat the changes and the increase of rate.

Do I think there is actually a "timetable"? No. I believe it's just yet another aspect of human nature we're seeing: Impatience. The most powerful have a taste of just what they can have, the technology now exists to accomplish it, and so they want it now, just like every other consumer in our society. They'll worry about paying the cost after they have their new toys...just like the rest of us impatient humans do. We're just watching the greed of the wealthiest and most powerful one percent take another notch up, that's all.

fjolnirsson
June 29, 2005, 12:50 AM
If the courts get out of control,

LMAO! You mean you don't think they're out of control yet?
If this isn't out of control, well.......I have no words.

joab
June 29, 2005, 12:58 AM
in 2 or more separate criminal episodes, Wouldn't going to church, stopping at a store next to a school to get a soda, spank your kid and spit on your husband while pulling a gun on a street gang in the parking lot just be one criminal episode.

Justin
June 29, 2005, 12:58 AM
It would seem that governmental authority grows exponentially instead of on a linear track.

bg
June 29, 2005, 01:56 AM
Off topic a bit, but how does one find out how my Rep voted on a bill ?

Sindawe
June 29, 2005, 02:34 AM
Go to http://thomas.loc.gov select "Roll Call Votes", select the house or senate, then you'll have to find the bill in question.

http://clerk.house.gov/cgi-bin/vote.asp?year=2005&rollnumber=168#N

Hawkmoon
June 29, 2005, 02:22 PM
Notwithstanding the recent Raich vs Gonzales decision a family stopping at a grocery store after church while armed, it would be stretch and a half to apply this statute (unless they were going to cross state lines after buying the food, but even then ... ).
You don't understand Raich. Raich says that not only does Federal law apply to items IN interstate commerce, it also applies to items that might affect interstate commerce. So if you go into your local grocery store and buy locally grown corn to take home and eat, it can still be regulated because they grow corn in Iowa and by NOT buying Iowa corn your purchase "affected" interstate commerce.

What's not clear about that? :confused:

Strings
June 29, 2005, 04:30 PM
hey, guys? What are these bubbles in the pool, and why do they seem to be multiplying? And is it just me, or is today a REAL scorcher?

one-shot-one
June 29, 2005, 05:35 PM
2. they are on a timetable known only to them to meet some sort of totalitarian/uni-government world goals and decided to go full court press.

JUST MY $0.02

TheGoodLife
June 30, 2005, 11:08 AM
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45051

WEAPONS OF CHOICE
'Anti-gang' bill endangers
gun rights?
Activist claims family of dad using firearm to protect could be jailed
**

The article goes on to quote Larry Pratt.

Pratt's comments are here:

http://www.gunowners.org/a062805.htm


I'm thankful for folks like Pratt who keep us informed of the legislation. It is also encouraging to see that some politicians do vote against bad legislation.

I don't know how many have followed Ron Paul from Texas, but he seems to be a very clear thinker when it comes to the Constitution and individual rights.
We need more like him in Congress.

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