[WonderNine]

The Makarovs look neat (at least in pictures) and the 7.62X25mm round is very interesting.

I handled several of each at a gun show last weekend.

Yuck! Commie junk.

[3 gun]

Yuck, maybe. Commie, never! Mine are owned by a patriot. Junk, hardly.

[Al Thompson]

3 gun nailed it. Can't speak for CZs, but Maks are cool. Cheap and run like a top. :cool:

[StressPuppy]

I have one of each. May not have the bells and whistles, but both are well made and have never had a problem.

My Mak is Russian with Pearce Grips on it. Fun to shoot.

My CZ52 is pretty much original (think it was arsenal refinished) and is also fun to shoot. And the Tokarev round is a hot little number! :what: If you want to see something solid, take the slide off and look at the lock up mechanism. It uses rollers, like some rifles and machine guns! Grips aren't the most comfortable, but for the money (I paid $109 for mine!), it is worth it. It will probably out last us all.

As for "commie junk", if it lasts, holds some value, and can be relied on, why should we care who makes it? There are plenty of guns that are made in the USA that I wouldn't own, but where they are made has no bearing on buying or not buying. (not trying to start a flame war here....)

Safety and reliability, safety and reliablilty.....

Bottom line, find someone that has one or both, and go to the range. May not be what you are used to, but I think you will be surprised at how they shoot.

[Kahr carrier]

Cz-52 very cool 7.62x25 is a screamer.:)

[wingman]

1911,AK47, Makarov, works of art, does not matter who made them, they are
the best.....

[Tamara]

Yes, they are indeed cool, but when someone's only seen photos or line drawings, the first sight of a real, cosmoline-encrusted CZ-52 may be a little, um, underwhelming. (As we see here...) I mean, truthfully, they are a little crude in the fit and finish department (by Western commercial standards), since Comrade Blastowicz was unlikely to complain if there were a few rough corners on his service pistol.

They're pretty far from "junk", though, WonderNine.

[CZ-75]

The finish on my EG Mak is the equal or better than guns 5X or more the price, at least if those guns are made by Colt.

[Flying V]

The fit/finish of East German Maks is significantly better than that of the Bulgarian specimens:
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=181416

[Flying V]

Pardon the dust, it was invisible to the eye:
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=181424
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=19464

Rumors on the Makarov message board claim that there will be a new shipment of EG Maks sometime this year.

[cratz2]

Those are some very nice Mak pics... I haven't been able to get very good pics... 'course I haven't tried with natural lighting yet...

Insurance pics... :D

http://photos.imageevent.com/cratz2/guns//Mak1.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/cratz2/guns//Mak2.jpg

[firestar]

I don't think they are junk. You have to remember, these guns cost only about $100-150. What other guns can you buy for that little cash? Also these were military guns and were not meant to be pretty.

When I first got my CZ-52, I had some of the same reactions as you. It ddn't fit my hand like I was used to and it was smelly and greasy. I took it home and did a deep cleaning and I started to like it more, after I shot it, I was very happy! The CZ-52 is the most fun handgun I have ever shot. It is too cool.

[triggertime]

You can't judge a book by its cover. Why don't you buy one, clean off the Cosmoline and shoot the heck out of it?

[makdaddy03]

Damn Good! "Commie junk".:neener: :what:

[Flying V]

Cratz2: Nice Russian Mak. I wish I hadn't been a fool and sold my Baikal .380.
My pictures were taken with a modest digital camera, a Polaroid PDC-1300. The gun was about 2.5 feet directly below a 60 watt bulb. I used the macro setting and flash.

[landisbear]

get a Makarov. Maybe commie junk will outlast some G.I.
U.S.Army Italian sidearm.

[plnkr1234]

Hi Guys,

I have nothing but good things to say about my Bulgarian unissued Maks. They have performed flawlessly and have a very good fit and finish especially considering the price of $160 each.

I do think the quality of the fit and finish varies amongst the various types, however. I haven't seen too many E. German military surplus but they're supposed to be the best in this regard. Next, I would rate the unissued Bulgarian military surplus which I have and are now more difficult to come by. There are lots of surplus issued Buglies but these have been used and their finishes may vary. I would rate the current commercial Bulgarian models at the bottom.

Nonetheless, whatever they may look like, they all seem to perform reliably, the finish may just not be as nice.

[Prodigalshooter]

Wondernine, you are right; they're all commie-junk, so help me help all the unsuspecting future possible owners and help me buy up all the Maks and their ilk, we will save them from their folly!
:p :neener: :neener: :neener:
On a more serious note, I like the Eastern Bloc pistols I have seen/shot/owned. Not the most polished handguns or rifles, but NOT junk. just utility, dependable. That's all.;)

[Tecolote]

Junk? Maks are reliable, tough and very accurate. How is that junk?

[Destructo6]

I have to pipe in in support of E. German Maks. Mine turned 40 last year and she still looks sweet. No sharp corners here. I won't try to BS you by saying there are no fine scratches, but the bluing is still deep and dark and the gun is 100% reliable.

The CZ-52 has freaky old man power. I'm not really wild about the ergonomics on it, so I can sympathize with your impression.

If you like the 7.62x25 cartridge, you might having a FEG Hi-Power converted to it. A guy over on the old Makarov.com forums did and loved it.

[denfoote]

Pistolet Makarova junk?? Not hardly!! Even my Chinese Type 52 has a fit and finish that rivals most fine western guns!!! Never had one fail me yet!! Maybe that's way they lasted so long in the communist arsenal!!!:rolleyes:

[aircarver]

Burned a case and a half of ammo between my three Bulgies, and never a missed beat. They're FUN to shoot.... Bet ya can't stop at one !!

[Kags1969]

I just purchased a Bulgarian Mak and a Polish Tokarev from SOG, I just couldn't resist. The prices are so freaking cheap, it really brings out the bargain hunter in me. The UPS Shippment will be here Monday.....

Kags

[Clark]

I have CZ52's and Tokarevs.

At first I liked the CZ52's better.
They were easier to shoot staight and had better workmanship.

Then I realized the only bad workmanship on a Tokarev was the safety that was put on to get in the US.

I started overloading guns in incremental powder charge work ups to see what happened.


Of 28 gun designs I tested, only the CZ52's blew up bad with tiny overloads.

Now when I look at a CZ52, I think "bad engineering".

[firestar]

:what:

Why are you blowing up handguns?

[Clark]

Someone has to, or we will wander in fear and ignorance forever.

I can afford it.

I am clever enough not to get hurt.

I am interested in it.

[cratz2]

OK... I'll bite.

What sort of velocities were you getting from your overloaded 7.62x25 loads? What powder were you using and what was the OAL?

[Clark]

The OAL is 1.3" for 7.62x25mm and 1.36" for Tokarevs converted to 9x23mm, so I guess I could be using 1.36"+ in 7.62x25mm, but my tests have all been at 1.3".

The powder I have tested CZ52's with is AA#9.

I can not get greater than book velocities with CZ52's before they blow up: 17% overload. Of 28 gun design / cartridge combinations I have done an incremental overload to see what happens, only the CZ52 stands out as having an unusually small safety margin and nasty failure mode.

My C-96 can shoot more powerful loads , and my Tokarevs can shoot very hot loads.

The most power I have got in 7.62x25mm is with a Tokarev, LONGSHOT powder, S&B brass, and Hornady 110 gr bullets.

Reading load books ["Accurate Arms Load Book Number Two" 2000], one would get the impression that the most power possible in 7.62x25mm [700 foot pounds] is with CZ52's, AA#9 powder [Ramshot Enforcer], Starline brass, and 110 gr FMJ.

They got the bullet wieght right.

I have contacted most every publication in the gun culture that has printed that the CZ52 is a strong pistol. There does not seem to be anyone with the responsibilty of getting errors in the gun culture corrected.