.45 Long Colt in H&R .45-70?


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earthworm
June 29, 2005, 11:22 AM
I was told I can safely shoot .45LC or even .454Casall in my H&R Buffalo
.45-70;that the .45LC would be roughly equivlent to a ".45-70 Short" (??) & the cases might split but seeing the H&R is a closed action there was no hazard.Anyone actually done this? I'm leery,to say the least.

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1911 guy
June 29, 2005, 11:36 AM
I'd be a little skittish to try this, too. Are the rims the same thickness? Are you going to run into problems with the shorter round bouncing down the first half inch of the barrel? Too many variables, I would think. Somebody here might know otherwise, but I wouldn't try it.

LeonCarr
June 29, 2005, 11:40 AM
I would not try it. I don't think the .45 Colt or .454 Casull have enough rim, and might even fall completely into the chamber of the .45-70. Besides, you can exceed .454 Casull performance with the 300 grain .45-70 factory load (.454 - 300 grain bullet at 1600 fps, .45-70 - 300 grain bullet at 1800 fps).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

Jim Watson
June 29, 2005, 12:18 PM
I don't think I'd try it unless the Commanches were getting awful close and I was out of carbine ammunition.
Reference to such literature as any handloader ought to have shows:

.45-70 has .505" head diameter, .070" rim thickness, .608" rim diameter, .458" bullet; 28,000 psi SAAMI maximum

.45 Colt has .480" head diameter, .060" rim thickness, .512" rim diameter, .452" bullet; 14,000 CUP for SAA, 20,000 CUP for Ruger.
I would expect a lot of bulging, if not splitting, and not much accuracy.

.454 Casul has .480" head diameter, .060" rim thickness, .512" rim diameter, .452" bullet; 54,000 CUP.
I would fear dangerous fireworks. The H&R is not made for that kind of load; nearly as high chamber pressure as .30-06 against a larger area, with sloppy brass fit.

Onmilo
June 29, 2005, 02:35 PM
What Jim Watson said plus add split cases and lots of leaking gas.
You will be guaranteed a case rupture with either of those two rounds.

Cosmoline
June 29, 2005, 03:19 PM
Back in 1873 they really should have made the .45 Colt a cut-down version of the .45/70. But they didn't.

Colt46
June 29, 2005, 03:39 PM
that owners of Martini-Henry's can put into the breech that was specifically made to allow firing of .45 Colt as commercial ammo is scarce and expensive. Is there some such item made for the .45-70?

steveno
June 29, 2005, 06:02 PM
I don't understand why anybody would even consider it in the first place.

redneck2
June 29, 2005, 06:15 PM
45 LC bullet=.452
.45-70 bullet=.458

45's ain't all 45's

can you say "knuckle-ball"?

As usual, Mr. Watson is correct

thatguy
June 29, 2005, 09:18 PM
Why the 45 Colt wasn't made as a cut-down 45/70: The rim diameter on the 45/70 is way too big to fit 6 in the SAA cylinder. The 45 Colt has a very narrow rim to allow getting six rounds side by side in the available space.

Firing 45 Colt rounds in a 45/70 rifle: I wouldn't. Too much dimensional difference.

Firing 454 Casull in 45/70 rifle: The Casull operates at MUCH higher pressure. Very dangerous. Especially in an ill-fitting chamber.

Using 45 Colt bullets in 45/70 loads: I do this all the time. I buy 250 grain lead bullets sized to .454 and load them to 1,200 FPS for plinking with my 45/70 rifles and they are quite accurate. Like 1.25" at 50 yards. The correct .457 slugs will go 3/4 of an inch.

JB in SC
June 29, 2005, 10:46 PM
Ace Dube makes inserts and cartridge adapters for a number of calibers. The only one suitable for a .45-70 single shot rifle is his .22 LR insert. I've used several centerfire to rimfire adapters and his work very well.

www.mcace.com

iamkris
June 29, 2005, 11:23 PM
I was told I can safely shoot .45LC or even .454Casall in my H&R Buffalo

Which proves there are lots of dunderheads out there who think they know a lot but are really just speculating... (I mean the person who told you that, not you)

Gewehr98
June 30, 2005, 12:02 AM
Back in 1873 they really should have made the .45 Colt a cut-down version of the .45/70. But they didn't.

See Thatguy's post above.

Do you realize how large the cylinder diameter and frame window would have to be in a sixgun to accommodate 6 cut-down .45-70 rounds, even if trimmed to the same length as the .45 Long Colt? :eek:

Jim Watson
June 30, 2005, 12:24 AM
'Bout the size of a Ruger NM Blackhawk... with five chambers.

earthworm
July 1, 2005, 04:10 PM
Particular thanks to Jim Watson & Redneck2 for the specs as to why it wouldn't work,& to Thatguy for the reloading data.
When I was told this I eyeballed a .45-70 & a .45LC cartridge side-by-side &
thought "Wellllll....". Not sure but I think the guy who said this also said it was
possible to shoot .308 in a .30-06. *Shrug*He's still got both eyes & 10 fingers.

mete
July 1, 2005, 05:46 PM
I have an insert to fire a 45acp in a 45-70. Due to the difference in bullet diameter the accuracy is poor.

Jim K
July 2, 2005, 06:18 PM
What has the guy who suggested that been smoking? He sure never tried it, as a .45 Colt round will drop right into a .45-70 chamber without the rim even touching the edge. It would only fire if the rifle were pointed straight up.

It is, however, possible (but not recommended) to fire .308 Winchester in a .30-'06 chamber, but it is difficult to chamber it in a manually operated rifle. In an unaltered M1 rifle, though, the .308/7.62 NATO will feed and fire with no problem except an odd looking fired case. But the .308 case is wider across the shoulder than the .30 is at the same point, so it wedges into the chamber. It will fire and extract, but extraction of an unfired round is very difficult.

Jim

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