Looks like are good friends south of the border have put the screw to us again.


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petrel800
June 29, 2005, 01:34 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/latimests/20050629/ts_latimes/mexicanvotingmayextendintous

"MEXICO CITY Mexico's Congress approved landmark legislation Tuesday giving citizens outside the country the right to vote by mail in presidential elections, a measure expected to have a significant effect on next year's contest.

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The overwhelming 455-6 vote to initiate balloting-by-mail capped a years-long internal debate. Skeptics fear that ballots sent through the mail might be stolen, manipulated or, given Mexico's unreliable mail service, never arrive. Some politicians worried that opposing parties would somehow benefit.

In the end, the Congress bowed to enormous grass-roots pressure, much of it from immigrant groups in the United States demanding the franchise. The bill now goes to President Vicente Fox, who is expected to sign it.

Salvador Garcia, president of the Council of Mexican Federations in Los Angeles, said having the vote would make immigrants "feel more a part of Mexico."

Although no one has exact figures, as many as 10 million Mexican citizens live in the United States, about half of them believed to be legal immigrants, many of whom hold dual citizenship, and about half illegal immigrants. As many as 4 million of these immigrants, both legal and illegal, may be eligible to vote next year, according to estimates by the Mexican Senate . . . "

Click link to read on, long article

Its almost as if they are encouraging them to cross the border, live tax free, and then have all the rights of a Mexican citizen. Its about time we put up a huge wall and guard it with armed personel.

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rick_reno
June 29, 2005, 02:10 PM
When I've worked off-shore as an American citizen, I could and always did vote. Granted, I wasn't in the host countries illegally and I did pay US taxes on my foreign income.

petrel800
June 29, 2005, 02:36 PM
I have no problem with the ones here legally. That's not my issue. This in my opinion just encourages more illegal immegration.

El Tejon
June 29, 2005, 03:24 PM
If a U.S. citizen were illegally in another country, would that U.S. citizen still be allowed to vote absentee in the U.S.? ;)

Zrex
June 29, 2005, 03:27 PM
If a U.S. citizen were illegally in another country, would that U.S. citizen still be allowed to vote absentee in the U.S.?

Stop making sense! :neener:

Old Fuff
June 29, 2005, 04:35 PM
>> Salvador Garcia, president of the Council of Mexican Federations in Los Angeles, said having the vote would make immigrants "feel more a part of Mexico." <<

Even though they reside illegally in the Uniterd States, and for all I know some of them may be U.S. citizens voting in both countries.

They must think that "Uncle Sam" is "Uncle Stupid."

We have an interesting government and court system ... :cuss:

JohnBT
June 29, 2005, 04:46 PM
They must think that "Uncle Sam" is "Uncle Stupid."

Don't we?

John

Ky Larry
June 29, 2005, 04:53 PM
Uncle Sam=Uncle Sap :mad:

Sindawe
June 29, 2005, 05:02 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161055,00.html

EXICO CITY — The Mexican government has issued postage stamps depicting an exaggerated black cartoon character known as Memin Pinguin (search), just weeks after remarks by President Vicente Fox (search) angered U.S. blacks.

The series of five stamps released Wednesday depicts a hapless boy drawn with exaggerated features, thick lips and wide-open eyes. His appearance, speech and mannerisms are the subject of kidding by white characters in the comic book, which started in the 1940s and is still published in Mexico.

Continues at link above, with pics

AZTOY
June 29, 2005, 06:18 PM
"MEXICO CITY Mexico's Congress approved landmark legislation Tuesday giving citizens outside the country the right to vote by mail in presidential elections, a measure expected to have a significant effect on next year's contest.


So if a few boxs of these, balloting-by-mail forms found there way into the right hands we could get President Fox out of office in Mexio. :rolleyes:



Hmmmmmmmmmmm

chaim
June 29, 2005, 08:51 PM
So if a few boxs of these, balloting-by-mail forms found there way into the right hands we could get President Fox out of office in Mexio.
President Fox will only have one term regardless. Unless things have changed, in Mexico they only get one 6 year term.

Standing Wolf
June 29, 2005, 11:50 PM
Skeptics fear that ballots sent through the mail might be stolen, manipulated or, given Mexico's unreliable mail service, never arrive. Some politicians worried that opposing parties would somehow benefit.

Sounds a lot like military absentee ballots in the United States.

Third_Rail
June 30, 2005, 12:09 AM
I see no problem with this. Don't US citizens get this benefit? Why not Mexicans?


To stop something like this would stop LEGAL immigrants here with visas from voting in their home country.

c_yeager
June 30, 2005, 06:07 AM
Lovely, now the popularity of a prospective Mexican government official is directly tied with their popularity among his countrymen living illegally in the United States. This gives a MASSIVE political incentive to provide them with as much help as possible. And provides ZERO consequences for letting people migrate out of the country.

davec
June 30, 2005, 06:15 AM
Since when should citizens of a nation be denied their right to vote in that nations elections simply because they live abroad?

I can't think of any democratic government that denies their citizens the exercise of their franchise because they live abroad.

A citizen, by definition, has a right to have a say in his government via the ballot. Where his residency is at the time is irrelevant.

longeyes
June 30, 2005, 12:08 PM
I am very opposed to illegal immigration but I think one of the ways Mexico can be transformed is if enough Mexicans with exposure to America begin to influence Mexican politics and culture. There are also Mexicans who have been here, both legally and illegally, who have moved back to Mexico and started changing things. Let's hope.

Waitone
June 30, 2005, 06:21 PM
Not to worry. The reason Bush had done nothing about criminal immigration is because he has evidently bought into the North American Community. One feature is elimination of barriers to the free flow of labor. So if improperly documented Mexican citizens are in the US, it is entirely reasonable to allow them to continue to vote in Mexican elections.

What's the beef about? No problem here.

lunaslide
June 30, 2005, 07:48 PM
I have no problem with the ones here legally. That's not my issue. This in my opinion just encourages more illegal immegration.
Is it your contention that not being able to vote in Mexican elections is what has kept people from illegally crossing into the U.S.? It's hard to see why that would be the case. Their ability to vote in their own elections would not be a deciding factor for them to stay.
I am very opposed to illegal immigration but I think one of the ways Mexico can be transformed is if enough Mexicans with exposure to America begin to influence Mexican politics and culture. There are also Mexicans who have been here, both legally and illegally, who have moved back to Mexico and started changing things. Let's hope.
Longeyes gets it. This is not a bad thing. The more invested the people of Mexico are in their own political process, the more potential there is for change. What keeps people coming here from Mexico and elsewhere is the desire to improve the standard of living for themselves and their families. Some do this through dishonorable means, by living off the dole and taking advantage of the socialist..err...social programs that encourage such behavior in Americans and immigrants alike. But many simply wish to make a living for themselves and raise themselves up out of poverty by working and earning a fair wage. In much of Mexico and South America, that is a hard goal to achieve. If they can get more involved in their political process and infuse some of the ideas they have learned here into it, hopefully they can get their country out of the slums and on the road to economic progress and prosperity.

We could do a lot more to secure the border and retard the massive flow of illegal immigrants into our country, and we should. But the most important aspect of turning this thing around is for the Mexican people themselves to take ownership of their country and build it into the kind of place they do not need to leave to live a decent life. That more than anything else will effect a positive outcome from the border problems we face.

Selfdfenz
June 30, 2005, 09:14 PM
Why don't we native born citizens of the US vote in the Mexican elections? Plenty of their folks are voting in ours.

S-

Yooper
June 30, 2005, 10:58 PM
The problem is that the individuals least tolerant of the Mexican system (most likely to change it) are the ones who are illegaly immigrating. All the more reason to send 'em back.

petrel800
June 30, 2005, 11:11 PM
I disagree with those who are defending this.

I will once again state that the ones here legally deserve their right to vote. That is not my contention. Its the other 5,000,000 est. that burns me. :fire:

IMO this encourages illegal immegration by allowing mexican citizens to cross the boarder earn money illegally and tax free, live off our medical systems and then continue to influence the government that controls the country that their relatives live under.

A lot of these illegals earn their money and send some of it back to mexico. IMO this encourages that money to be sent back into Mexico.

Also, if the Mexican government collects ballots from illegals in this country without notifying us as to the where abouts of said illegals are, they are purposefully hiding their citizens in our country. Once again Mexican Policies screw the American Public.

Third_Rail
June 30, 2005, 11:17 PM
So you're saying that the criminals shouldn't be allowed to vote because they illegally entered our country, but the ones here shouldn't either?


Nice.


I don't think barring them from voting in Mexico would stop them from coming here - that doesn't make sense.

Don Gwinn
July 1, 2005, 10:33 AM
Third Rail, that didn't quite make sense. When you say "the ones here shouldn't either," to whom are you referring when you say "the ones here?" Does that mean illegals, legal non-citizens, or what?
And "shouldn't" what? Be here? Vote? It's just hard to understand what your criticism is.

Also, was your response directed at Petrel or someone else? It doesn't seem on point for Petrel's post, but if you're not answering the guy right above you it's a good idea to address your comments to the person to whom you wish to respond. (Even though sometimes you just plain crosspost with someone no matter what.)

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