Convincing NJ to legalize the M1 carbine


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DontBurnMyFlag
June 30, 2005, 04:13 PM
For some strange reason, the M1 carbine is illegal in the state of NJ. New Jersey has its own AWB and has a long list of firearms that are banned. The puny m1 carbine is on that list. I was wondering if its even possible to get hundreds of people to pressure the NJ lawmakers to legalize the M1 carbine. Its not something that would happen overnight, but I think it would be a great step to gain more victories for gun owners. I was planning on writing a letter and having others write letters and make phone calls. In the letter my reasons for allowing ownership of an M1 carbine would be as followed.

1. Its an old, and inferior weapon by todays standards
2. It fires a cartridge that is weak, and not as plentiful as other cartridges
3. there are few crimes ever commited with an m1 carbine

the list could go on

I was considering saying about how the legal bushmaster and springfield are more dangerous than an M1 carbine, but that would just give lawmakers more to work with when it comes to banning weapons. I imagine that they would read about an M1A and ar-15 being more dangerous and then be like, "oh well, if they are so dangerous, lets ban them too." So i refrained from including that in my list of reasons why the m1 carbine should be taken off the list of banned weapons in NJ.

If anyone has any suggestions or facts that I missed, please inform me. If anyone thinks this is a bad idea, also, inform me. I am here for your suggestions and critiques.

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RavenVT100
June 30, 2005, 04:29 PM
I wouldn't bother. NJ has already banned all handguns (smart gun law) and they're waiting for that to go into effect. The media routinely reports the M1 Carbine as an "M1 assault rifle" in this state, and the population is pretty much fully indoctrinated. I don't think you could do any good, and you might make it worse by pointing out that rifles such as the M1A and postban ARs are legal. I am sure NJ could get those banned in a jiffy if they wanted to, keeping in mind that the penalties for unauthorized gun ownership in NJ are draconian.

I've read about people being jailed for the M1 carbine on their first offence and being denied pre-trial intervention on the basis that it's just so evil and egregious to own an "assault firearm," that one should receive full punishment regardless. One really should not push it in this state. I've already seen so much here that has gotten me truly spooked that I'd never attempt something like what you're suggesting.

geekWithA.45
June 30, 2005, 04:53 PM
Considering that the older model 60 .22lrs (which had tubular mags holding an EVIL 17 rounds of .22lr!) are considered "assault weapons", I think maybe that's not going to happen.

If you open the can of worms for a marginal win on the m1 carbine, you risk "tweaks" that will result in the loss of postban configs.

If you want to decriminalize (or at least de-felonize) something in NJ, start with slingshots, and then work your way up to bb guns.

Eventually, 15 years from now, you might get to those 17 round tubemag fed .22lrs.

WT
June 30, 2005, 05:01 PM
Ain't never gonna' happen.

If you walk into your assemblyman's office with $50,000 cash in hand for his re-election committee, he might offer you a seat and a coffee. Anything less than that and you will be shown the door.

Remember, our last governor lost his job because he took a measly $40,000.

DontBurnMyFlag
June 30, 2005, 05:46 PM
and a revolution to clean the slate is also out of the question? dang


jk

oh well, thanks for the input guys. Yea, i was only gonna follow through with my plan if I had the support of hundreds of gun owners. However, people have gotten crazier things done by themselves. I am not one of those people though. as soon as Im done school and can afford it, pennsylvania here i come.

Commissar Gribb
June 30, 2005, 05:57 PM
it may be more feasible and useful to just detach NJ and send it to europe.

Standing Wolf
June 30, 2005, 09:30 PM
If you walk into your assemblyman's office with $50,000 cash in hand for his re-election committee, he might offer you a seat and a coffee. Anything less than that and you will be shown the door.

George III is laughing himself silly in his grave.

javafiend
June 30, 2005, 10:14 PM
and a revolution to clean the slate is also out of the question? dang

Here's a big problem with revolution. Let's say you throw the bastards out. OK, then what? Will you continue to hold elections? If so, what keeps a majority of the sheeple of New Jersey from re-electing an indentical bunch of corrupt, gun-grabbing, tax-raising, oath-breaking commie-fascist bastards?

Hawkmoon
June 30, 2005, 11:30 PM
oh well, thanks for the input guys. Yea, i was only gonna follow through with my plan if I had the support of hundreds of gun owners. However, people have gotten crazier things done by themselves. I am not one of those people though. as soon as Im done school and can afford it, pennsylvania here i come.
Your problem is that you need hundreds (or thousands) of gun owners who live and vote in New Jersey. The rest of us don't matter.

And the logistical problem of getting the M1 removed from the list without risking having a lot of more "assault-like" weapons added to the list is not to be taken lightly. Lawmakers get their publicity by making laws. Once they het a law enacted, they tend to forget about it and move on to the next law. They actually don't like to go back and re-open existing laws without a significant reason, but once an existing law comes up for revision, it's open season and the original proponant of one revision will have little control over what other lawmakers and committees might do to it.

As ridiculous as it seems, sometimes it is better to let sleeping dogs lie. If someone moves to open the law for adding other weapons, then it's on the table and in addition to trying to scotch the additions you can also go after striking some of the more foolish weapons currently in the law.

Vermont Guy
July 1, 2005, 12:08 AM
Guys, those are all good reasons why messing with New Jersey's AWB would be dangerous and blood, sweat and tears down a rat hole.

But if they do nothing it will just get worse. No! Really! A lot worse.

If stirring the pot makes it get worse faster then people won't have time to accomidate to the changes. The people I talk to in NY take it as completely natural that you need a permit to own a handgun.

It's that boiling frog thing again. Granted the heat is pretty high now in NJ but if you drop a frog in boiling water the theory states that the frog will try to get out. Only gradually increasing the heat lulls the frog to its death.

My only suggestion would be to go for repealing the whole AWB. This may even be a good time. John Lott just published an article in the LA Times pointing that crime has gone down since repeal of the federal AWB. Then you can hold up the M1 carbine as an example of how silly the whole thing is.

Blue Jays
July 1, 2005, 01:07 AM
Hi All-

Perhaps writing letters to Senator Frank Lautenberg and Senator Jon Corzine will help? :barf:

~ Blue Jays ~

Crosshair
July 1, 2005, 01:49 AM
2 Words: Rider Bill. Write one and get it attached to the state spending bill. :neener:

RavenVT100
July 1, 2005, 12:27 PM
There are not enough gun owners in NJ, unfortunately. So little of the population shoots, and the entire state is becoming one big urban center. There are of course pockets of country and a large gun owning contingent there, but population wise most of NJ is urban or heavily suburban.

Most people here are under the impression that guns are illegal by default except for cops. They don't know the laws and frankly, I don't blame them considering how complicated and obtuse most of them are. Many lawyers don't even understand the intricate and vaguely worded statutes at play here.

The only hope that I can see for New Jersey is federal intervention, starting with the rooting out and prosecution of the corruption here. It's already occurring, but it needs to be dealt with even more. Everything is pay to play in NJ, and with gun owners being a tiny, tiny demographic, it seems highly unlikely that anything could get done without access to a war chest (i.e. funding) of sizeable proportions.

I have no doubt that the Democratic politicians that run this state would easily roll over on gun laws if the price was right. Unfortunately we're dealing with people like Corzine who are already billionaires and can simply buy themselves into office. I don't think anyone could convince him to change his gun policy, and he's promised to make NJ the first "gun free" state.

MAUSER88
July 1, 2005, 12:43 PM
Sad to say it won't ever happen. On an even sadder note if Corzine gets elected We gun owners are in for lots more problems other than worrying about making the M1 Carbine legal again.
Raven is correct in saying Corzine is already "floating" the idea of making NJ the first gun free state. I heard this from a guy I personally know who is a shooter and works for Rahway Prison as a Correction Officer and another who is a city Cop. Both heard this from thier Superiors.

Don't be nieve enough to think it couldn't happen. I thought the same thing back in 1989 with Florio's AWB. I thought it would never pass, but guess what, I ended up selling 22 "assualt" style rifles that would have turned me into a criminal overnight. Sorry but rendering them inoperable was not an option for me.

NJ gun owners are going to be facing some real hard times if Corzine wins. We need to get out and vote for Forrester. It could possibly mean the end of our Second Amendment rights if we can't get him elected.

MICHAEL T
July 1, 2005, 12:55 PM
Just move to a FREE state. You can do it,many have .

MAUSER88
July 1, 2005, 01:01 PM
Michael, I wish it was as simplistic as you make it out to be, because if it were, I'd be long gone. ;)

GT
July 1, 2005, 01:01 PM
New Jersey is a mob state so voting doesn't really matter and all the politicians at every level are owned by the Democrat organized crime bosses.

Obviously the mob wants as many people as possible disarmed.

I don't think the usual methods will work in NJ because of the above.


Normally I would advocate a fight, but in the case of NJ: move.

G

RavenVT100
July 1, 2005, 01:53 PM
NJ gun owners are going to be facing some real hard times if Corzine wins. We need to get out and vote for Forrester. It could possibly mean the end of our Second Amendment rights if we can't get him elected.

If he actually does make it a "gun free" state, it will be a "RavenVT100 free" state as well-in a much shorter timespan than I'd originally planned on.

Air,Land&Sea
July 1, 2005, 02:19 PM
Moving, actually, is pretty easy. All it takes is a U-Haul or, in my case, that rental place in Berlin on Route 73 (Just-4-Wheels, I think). You'll leave lots of friends and memories behind, just like my great grandparents did, but the pluses far outweigh the negatives. Don't get me wrong, I'm still angry over the whole thing, but you can't have everything.
You can certainly stay and fight the good fight. If you're serious and really dig in and make a stand you'll eventually find that you're like the WWII Japanese soldier who, while lost in the jungle, continues to fight even though the war is already lost.
The only solution, really, is to let them implement the Smart Gun Law and let them make New Jersey a gun-free state. Then, the entire state will become like Camden, the nation's most dangerous city, and all of our theories will be proven. And those who suffer the consequences of living there are doing so by their own choosing, which is fine - it's a free country (well, most of it).

Blue Jays
July 1, 2005, 05:59 PM
Hi All-

If the whole state becomes like Camden at least they'll be a few bargains to be found on prime real estate.

~ Blue Jays ~

bjbarron
July 1, 2005, 11:39 PM
We are already looking at homes in PA...and our house is for sale.

The ONLY thing good about Jersey, is that it is a narrow state. I can live over the river in PA and get to work a half-hour quicker than fighting my way up the GSP from south jersey where I live.

New Jersey is lost to freedom. Your only choice is to move.

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