See it, hear it, feel it: Marines train with the AK-47 assault rifle


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Drizzt
June 30, 2005, 05:25 PM
See it, hear it, feel it: Marines train with the AK-47 assault rifle

Submitted by: MCB Camp Pendleton
Story by: Computed Name: Sgt. Monroe Seigle
Story Identification #: 2005630115126

MARINE CORPS BASE CAMP PENDLETON, Calif.(June 30, 2005) -- Even after discovering and processing mounds of enemy weapons caches during their recent deployment in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom last fall, many Marines with 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment had never pulled the trigger on an AK-47.

These Marines got the chance to gauge the effectiveness of the enemy's weapon of choice during a live-fire exercise with the AK-47 assault rifle here June 23.

"Learning a new weapons system is just like learning a new language. The more you practice it, the better off you will be in battle when your weapon system goes down or malfunctions, and you have to pick up an enemy's weapon and put it to use," said Cpl. Tim Egnoski, a squad leader with 3rd Bn., 1st Marines.

Before the Marines sent rounds downrange, they first learned the basics of the weapon by practicing loading and unloading it and learning how to activate the safety lever.

The AK-47 is quite different from the M-16A2 service rifle -- the weapon all Marines become intimately acquainted with from the day they enter the Marine Corps.

The weapon's full name is the Avtomat Kalashnikova, 1947. The automatic weapon was developed by the famed Kalashnikov gun works in 1947, at the dawn of the Cold War. The world knows it by its initials the AK-47.

Simple to use and deadly efficient, the AK-47 is one of the most influential guns of the 20th century.

"Almost all the enemy fighters I saw in Iraq were using the AK-47," said Lance Cpl. Daniel O'Brien, a machinegunner with the 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment. "We got to fire a few of them in Iraq, but we weren't able to actually spend some time to learn just how accurate it is compared to our weapons system. Having familiarity with different equipment makes Marines more useful on the battlefield. If you have to, you pick up another one and get back into the fight and that is what is important."

http://www.marines.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/ad983156332a819185256cb600677af3/8eb0258ada773d278525703000571b7d?OpenDocument

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El Tejon
June 30, 2005, 06:19 PM
Just think how far they would be on their training if those marines had been raised shooting AK-47s.

Onmilo
June 30, 2005, 06:39 PM
Cripes, at Fort Bragg N.C. we had familiarization training, repair and maintenance, and the opportunity to qualify with the AK-47/AKM on a Soviet style range facility in the early 1980s.
Why do the current Marines going through training with Com-Bloc weapons come as such a shock??

entropy
June 30, 2005, 06:53 PM
BTDT, Ft.Ord, 1988. SKS, AK-47, RPK, RPD, Dragunov. They had an AK-74, but not enough ammo, as it had just came from Afghanistan. I believe that foreign weapons familiarization should be part of Basic, right after BRM.

Or earlier, like these Russian kids:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/mosinfan/Russiankidslearnweapons.jpg

[David Lee Roth voice] But then my home room was never quite like this..[/David Lee Roth voice] :D

The Avtomat Kalashnikova 1947 goud was produced first at Izhevsk, not the "Kalashnikov weapons factory" :rolleyes: PR flaks never get it right, do they? ;)

OEF_VET
June 30, 2005, 07:11 PM
Fort Benning School for Wayward Boys, circa 1989-90. When I went thru Basic Training (the first time - I got out and went back in), they let us hold a couple AK's for all of about 5 minutes. Fire it? Yeah, right. We were U.S. Army Infantry trainees, why would we need to know how to operate an AK-47? :rolleyes:

Dave R
June 30, 2005, 07:26 PM
"We got to fire a few of them in Iraq, but we weren't able to actually spend some time to learn just how accurate it is compared to our weapons system. And they never answered that burning question. How accurate is it compared to our weapons system? It would be fun to see the USMC weigh in on AR vs. Ak.

AK-74me
June 30, 2005, 07:49 PM
Dave R I know I am wondering the same, it is like you can almost hear it getting ready to come off the tip of his tongue. " I love the Ak, lets trash the M16"

horge
June 30, 2005, 07:52 PM
Yes, I wish they'd commented officially on it (AK 47 vs. M16/M4)
That would set off another one of those
reliability/penetration vs. accuracy/controllability flamefests...
and I just love breaking out the marshmallows.

chris in va
July 1, 2005, 02:16 AM
Cracks me up at the range...the guys with the hopped-up $1500 AR-15's always fiddling with the mechanism while my friend and I laid down well over 600 rounds of Wolf through his polymer AK with zero problems. We actually had to stop every 100 rounds or so as the stock got so damn hot. :eek: :p

Justin
July 1, 2005, 02:48 AM
I've had far more jams with less overall rounds downrange out of Kalashnikov-style rifles than out of AR15's.

50 Freak
July 1, 2005, 03:31 AM
Cracks me up at the range...the guys with the hopped-up $1500 AR-15's always fiddling with the mechanism while my friend and I laid down well over 600 rounds of Wolf through his polymer AK with zero problems. We actually had to stop every 100 rounds or so as the stock got so damn hot

I've got to agree guys. At all the carbine matches I've participated in, the ARs, (mine included) end up jamming once or more. It's got to the point I've decided at the next match, I'm bringing my Mak90. I can't remember when it last jammed.

Funny at the last one, the only two guns that didn't jam once was a SKS and a M1 Garand.

No_Brakes23
July 1, 2005, 03:53 AM
I am more familiar with ARs from my time in the Corps, but I shoot the Saiga AKs with more confidence and consistancy.

And this isn't really that new. Back in '98, my Gunny told me they trained him on the AK-47 and the week-long small arms course in Quantico.

After watching Heartbreak Ridge as a kid, I was a little surprised when I got to bootcamp, and there was no Gunny Highway teaching us about the "preferred weapon of out enemy." :D

Crosshair
July 1, 2005, 04:25 AM
Considering how accurate my SKS is, I am not surprised that they are impressed with the AK. One thing we have going for us is the fact that most of the bad guy's can't shoot worth crap. Several people I know that came back from Iraq and Afganistan say that most just spray and pray and obviously have very little, if any, marksmanship training. Though now they are relying on IED's more.

amprecon
July 1, 2005, 05:15 AM
I just don't understand why the Marine Corps doesn't beat our "weapons Knowledgeable" government to the punch and issue it's troops AK-47's to begin with. The M-16 is a POS. I'm in Iraq, I see alot of them, I haven't experienced their operation in combat, but from what I've seen and heard talking to the troops first hand at the DFAC's, and being a current proud owner of an AK variant, it's a matter of government pride over the safety of our troops that the M-16 lives on.
Let me say, that if I were a trooper, I'd without question want either an M-14 or an FN-FAL.
The terrain is so open and you can see so far that the M-16 just can't be effective where the targets can be seen. But what do I know?

RevDisk
July 1, 2005, 05:55 AM
I've had far more jams with less overall rounds downrange out of Kalashnikov-style rifles than out of AR15's.

That's actually an impressive feat. How'd ya manage that one?

The only way I learned to kill an AK is fire all tracers on full auto until the barrel starts glowing. "Red means stop."

goalie
July 1, 2005, 07:12 AM
I've had far more jams with less overall rounds downrange out of Kalashnikov-style rifles than out of AR15's.

Wow. While I cannot say that I am overall impressed with the accuracy of the AKs I have used, I can say that when I was in the gulf back in '91 and '92 the AR platform required a magazine in the weapon and good maintenance to ensure reliability, wheras we could pick up AKs and they would fire a magazine even if it had been laying in sand, half buried.

Makes me wonder if you were shooting in nice, pristine range condition, and what AK you were using that was so unreliable???

Pinned&Recessed
July 1, 2005, 09:09 AM
I've had far more jams with less overall rounds downrange out of Kalashnikov-style rifles than out of AR15's.

Me too. I thought I was the only person the the world with a finicky AK.

My AK has the reliability of an MGB, while my AR is as reliable as a Toyota.

I've gotten real good at AK malfunction drills.

InfernoMDM
July 1, 2005, 11:12 AM
You guys are the very few that I have ever heard having issues with there AK. I would love to know what country made your weapons.

Of my short time on this planet I have played with and fired probably 30+ AK's. I have watched at least 40 others fire just fine. However being on the range at a USAF base where clean weapons are a rare thing, I have seen nearly everyone jam at least twice within a 80 round fire.

Dave R
July 1, 2005, 11:25 AM
You guys are the very few that I have ever heard having issues with there AK. I would love to know what country made your weapons. I'm guessing they're MAADI's. :evil:

One of the best AK-lovers threads I saw at AK-47.net was when a guy had just bought his 3rd or 4th AK. A Romanian SAR-1. He was bragging at the range, and one of the guys called him on it. He had bragged that you could drag it through a mud puddle and it would still fire. And it had just rained...So when the guy called him on it, he roped his AK to the back of his pickup truck, and drug it through a big mud puddle. Then shook out the water and fired the full mag downrange. THEN he cleaned it.

Best part, there were lots of pix! Pix of the puddle he drug through, pix of the AK before firing, pix of the inside of the receiver and dust cover after firing, etc.

He got lots of comments calling him evil for trating his AK so bad. He replied that it was all in the name of "science", and that he didn't feel bad for misusing a $300 rifle built by Century Arms.

Great thread.

Ahhh, another great AK post. The thread was titled "how often do you clean your AK?" One poster answered "I was at the range once, and it rained. Does that count?"

I'm sure it was said for effect, rather than truth, but it caused me to spew.

Bet we're veering pretty far, here. To get back on topic, does anyone know of a case where one of our guys picked up an enemy AK in battle and used it?

Didn't think so.

No_Brakes23
July 1, 2005, 11:44 AM
does anyone know of a case where one of our guys picked up an enemy AK in battle and used it? I have heard several anecdotal stories of guys in Viet Nam doing exactly that.

I will mention that while the Saiga is one of the most reliable rifles I have ever fired, it is picky about magazines, and sometimes some work is required on the magazine. But once a good mag is found, no problems what so ever.

entropy
July 1, 2005, 12:24 PM
Saigas use a slightly different feed setup than AKs, and are more prone to jamming. And they are still extremely reliable. The only time I've seen one jam was due to ammo. Santa Barbra wouldn't function a freind's .308 Saiga. We had to manually cycle the action for each round. Worked flawlessly with Israeli, South African, Australian, Lake City, and his own handloads. I had problems with 9mm Santa Barbra functioning my Kel-Tec carbine, also. :mad:

Onmilo
July 1, 2005, 01:44 PM
I have a Maadi AKM, it has been totally reliable but it won't group better than 8" at 100 meters with off the shelf ammunition.
Finnish Lapua will group 5-6" at the same range but I'm hording my supply.

I think the Romanian rifles have the worst reputation for reliability though some have no problems.
I knew a Croatian expatriate who referred to Romanian AKM rifles as "The droopy barrel gun."
It seems that when these guys fired long full automatic bursts in the Romanian rifles the barrels would droop from the heat.
He felt the Yugoslavian rifles and the Bulgarian rifles were the best AKs made, even better than the Russian rifles.

I shot Chinese and Russian AKM rifles during familiarization.
Qualified Sharpshooter with a Russian AKM.
No malfunctions that I can remember, and less than stellar accuracy during paper target sight in.

If I had my choice, and I do, I would, and do, choose something besides an AKM for my personal weapon.

I would really like to shoot some of the new Russian AK-100 series rifles, these are supposed to be very, very good weapons.
Far better than the worn out, battlefield relics we used.
Maybe someday I'll make a vacation trip to Russia and do just that.

ny32182
July 1, 2005, 03:03 PM
My "AK" says "made in Russia" on the side, and it has malfunctiond more times (once) than all my ARs combined. I've also seen plenty of cheaper SAR-1s/Chinese/etc AKs at the range that couldn't make it through a mag.

My VEPR runs like a champ; so do my ARs. That doesn't mean there aren't bad examples of each out there. As far as actually hitting targets at any range, its much easier for me to do with an AR. As far as accuracy goes, there is no comparison. imo.

There is never, ever going to be one rifle that *everyone* loves above all others. Different people are going to have their different preferences, and that is just how its going to be. Should our troops be able to put an AK into action in an emergency situation? Of course. It just makes sense to know as much about your enemy as possible. Again, imho.

TheDutchman
July 1, 2005, 03:10 PM
Never had my RRA Entry Tactical jam or hicup just runs and runs. Seen a Bushy choke, a Israeli Galil, couple AK's ,a Daewoo, HK 91, a original FN FAL and a few other types of rifles.

Justin
July 1, 2005, 03:11 PM
You guys are the very few that I have ever heard having issues with there AK. I would love to know what country made your weapons. Norinco, China. Best trigger I've ever felt in an AK, but that doesn't make up for the sub-par accuracy.

Pinned&Recessed
July 1, 2005, 03:41 PM
(slight thread hijack)

My AK tale of woe, which I think I caused:

My AK is an Arsenal USA SSR-85C built with all Hungarian parts on a Hungarian FEG receiver. Of course, it has the requisite US-made parts, some very smooth Arsenal FCG and PG.

Anyway, I bought it used, but still in good shape. It hadn't been cleaned in a while. I took it to a buddy's land and ripped off 500 rounds of polymer Wolf without a hiccup. It was so fun and I loved it. Bump-fired, slow fire, everything. The rifle just kept running. I fired it so much, I even got some scorching on the front handguards.

I take the gun home and proceed to put a Drill-Sergeant-Inspection level of clean on it. I KNOW, it's an AK, but for at least ONCE in it's life, I wanted it to be spotless. I cleaned it so well, you could eat or perform surgery off it. I even pulled the gas tube and cleaned the carbon out with a 20 Gauge bore brush and mop.

While I was in there, I "customized" the bolt carrier. The bolt carrier had the typical black finish on it, but the finish was worn and looked bad. I preferred the "two-tone" look of earlier AKs and followed some directions I found online to strip the finish off the carrier and polish it to a high shine. It looked beautiful. It absolutely sparkled.

I then lubed the bolt wear surfaces, locking lugs and carrier rails.

The next time I went to shoot, I was shooting that Uly ammo that comes in the big green "Sardine Can".

The gun jammed every other shot. I was getting bolt-over-round failures where it seemed the carrier was moving too fast and the round wasn't pushed up into position in time. The bolt was hitting the cartridge halfway up the case, pushing it up and jamming it halfway into the chamber. The only way to clear it was to pull the bolt back, drop the mag and let the round fall out of the gun.

This happened on multiple mags and the most rounds I was able to get off at a time was two in a row.

The gun had a rubber buffer on the recoil spring and I removed that and it seemed to help, but it still jammed constantly.

Switch back to Wolf and I've had less problems. But people run the Uly ammo with NO PROBLEM!!!! Why does my rifle have to be different? An AK should run on ammo that's loaded with sand instead of gunpowder, ansd should run regardless of being clean, dirty, lubed or dry.

I think my problems were a comination of the rifle being too clean, lubed up, with a polished bolt carrier and different ammo. Thoughts, advice?

Please tell me it's not my rifle. This has REALLY soured me to the "AK Experience" and the ONLY reason I keep it at this point is because me owning an EEEEVIL AK-47 somehow pisses Dianne Feinstein off.

MudPuppy
July 1, 2005, 04:06 PM
I "heard" about an ak that had the action rusted/frozen shut and a trooper stood it on the buttstock and stomped on the charging handle to break it loose, then picked it up and fired it. Hows that for safe?? :eek:

I had a lot of issues with my service M16, but no problems with my current civvie ar-15--but I keep it very clean am very careful with it. My AK gets tossed in the back of the truck.

All that aside, it is very important to know your enemy--this training should be part of every infantry soldiers early training.

RevDisk
July 1, 2005, 04:47 PM
I take the gun home and proceed to put a Drill-Sergeant-Inspection level of clean on it. I KNOW, it's an AK, but for at least ONCE in it's life, I wanted it to be spotless. I cleaned it so well, you could eat or perform surgery off it. I even pulled the gas tube and cleaned the carbon out with a 20 Gauge bore brush and mop.

While I was in there, I "customized" the bolt carrier. The bolt carrier had the typical black finish on it, but the finish was worn and looked bad. I preferred the "two-tone" look of earlier AKs and followed some directions I found online to strip the finish off the carrier and polish it to a high shine. It looked beautiful. It absolutely sparkled.

Uh, you really shouldn't have done that. If the rifle was working fine with no jams, you tinker with the insides, and then the rifle starts malfunctioning... I'm not a psychic, but I'm willing to bet it was caused by something you did while "customizing" the bolt carrier. Try not cleaning the rifle for a bit and remove all the lube you used. If you have a carbon soaked rag you used for cleaning the rifle, wipe down the parts with it. I have no idea why, but I swear the AK is happier with carbon build up than it is 'surgical clean'.


I "heard" about an ak that had the action rusted/frozen shut and a trooper stood it on the buttstock and stomped on the charging handle to break it loose, then picked it up and fired it. Hows that for safe??

I've seen it done by Finnish soldiers. Something about ice building up in the receiver during arctic conditions. Their way of clearing it is to jump kick the charging handle with their entire body weight. Dang...


Norinco, China. Best trigger I've ever felt in an AK, but that doesn't make up for the sub-par accuracy.

Justin, I'd love to see that rifle. The only AK's I've seen with that much jammings was due to massive amounts of rust and corrosion, probably due to being buried for nearly decade or so. If your rifle is in decent condition, I'd really love to learn how it's actually having problems.

Pinned&Recessed
July 1, 2005, 04:59 PM
Uh, you really shouldn't have done that. If the rifle was working fine with no jams, you tinker with the insides, and then the rifle starts malfunctioning... I'm not a psychic, but I'm willing to bet it was caused by something you did while "customizing" the bolt carrier. Try not cleaning the rifle for a bit and remove all the lube you used. If you have a carbon soaked rag you used for cleaning the rifle, wipe down the parts with it. I have no idea why, but I swear the AK is happier with carbon build up than it is 'surgical clean'.

I haven't cleaned it in a while and I am hoping the build-up of nastyness will help.

As far as the carrier, all I did was put it "in the white" and polish the part you see. I never messed with the bearing surfaces for the bolt or carrier rails. The original AK-47s came with unfinished bolt carriers "in the white", so that should not be an issue.

I think being clean and lubed made it cycle probably TOO fast and it had issues.

entropy
July 1, 2005, 05:12 PM
I just watched the Military Channels comparison of the AK and M16, and they showed a stop-action film of an AK fired full auto. The barrel was actually bending down during firing! :what:

I think being clean and lubed made it cycle probably TOO fast and it had issues. :confused:
I don't think so. you somehow messed up some bearing surfaces in there somewhere. I agree with RevDisk, the AK likes a little carbon buildup.

earthworm
July 1, 2005, 05:16 PM
Donno much about Ak's but being at least familiar with the enemy's weaponry
sounds like a good idea to me.

brian roberts
July 1, 2005, 05:25 PM
Hey P&R, you might try putting a good quality mag. spring in the mag. & trying it on the range, that may cure "that" problem. you might try W.C.Wolff Co. for the springs.

as for the trooper standing on the AK, yes, there was a test w/the H&K(.30); the AK; the M-16. they were all fired 'til they were "nicely warm" then allowed to freeze in water, outside, overnight. the M-16, you couldn't stomp on, so it never was returned to firing order. the H&K, when the op rod was stomped on, the handle snapped off. only the AK could be "stomped on" & bashed about, til the ice was removed(couldn't use tools, only hands & shoes) & she'd come up firing. makes you think about more than deserts..... :cool:

Drizzt
July 1, 2005, 05:42 PM
entropy, I think that's the same one I just saw the other day. One of the best points they brought up was that the M-16 was designed as a rifle, and the AK was designed as being more of a machine gun (using the order of safe-select-full auto), which also tends to govern how they are used, and how accurate they are.

Now, I don't say that to imply a preference between the two, but I really feel that we are comparing two dissimilar items.

Pinned&Recessed
July 1, 2005, 06:23 PM
the M-16, you couldn't stomp on, so it never was returned to firing order. the H&K, when the op rod was stomped on, the handle snapped off

Borrow a trick from American GIs in Korea and wizz on it to defrost it.

you somehow messed up some bearing surfaces in there somewhere.

Nope. Didn't go near them. Cosmetic only.

I am probably going to try new mag springs and see if that helps. The mags were kinda tired.

RevDisk
July 1, 2005, 08:32 PM
I just watched the Military Channels comparison of the AK and M16, and they showed a stop-action film of an AK fired full auto. The barrel was actually bending down during firing!

I've seen it with an M60. I uh, swear it wasn't me behind it. I'd never fire until a barrel started glowing red. Really. What? Stop looking at me like that!


Nope. Didn't go near them. Cosmetic only.

Hmm. Mind starting a thread in Rifles? I'm actually rather interested. When people break an AK, they usually have to put some work into it. I'm rather curious.

Khaotic
July 1, 2005, 08:52 PM
Donno much about Ak's but being at least familiar with the enemy's weaponry
sounds like a good idea to me.

Both me and Revdisk, and some other troops, got a similar idea not long ago, and some of the command staff thought this would be a better use of some soldiers time than cooling their heels and slacking off... soooo...

They did something like that out in the big K, and it worked out well not only from a training point of view, but also from a diplomatic one - of course, if some allied soldier gives you a pitying look and pats you comfortingly, know that it's because they fired the M-4.

As for snatching up an enemy rifle in the heat of combat - bad, bad idea.

First off, you won't have any ammo for it but what's in the magazine at the time, unless you strip it from the poor sodder who was holding it a few minutes ago.. which has it's own dangers.

Second, the AK makes a really distinctive sound, which'll draw the attention of every GI in the vicinity, some one whom may not pause for proper target identification, etc etc.

Now, if you're COMPLETELY out of ammo or have a really bad jam and time is critical, you're being overrun, etc - it'd be understandable, but as a general rule it's a bad, bad idea.

For mine own, I'd prefer we were issued sidearms for those eventualities, because NO rifle is 100% effective, 100% of the time.

I've seen it with an M60. I uh, swear it wasn't me behind it. I'd never fire until a barrel started glowing red. Really. What? Stop looking at me like that! :scrutiny:

Perhaps you'd care to explain to me, then, WHY everyone in your unit grabs dirt when you rack the charging handle, hmmm? :confused:

Or why your first purchase on return was a heavy oven mitt ? :uhoh:

Admittedly tho, it doesn't take very much to meltdown an M60 barrel, the timing, trigger control and forebearance (as in wait for it to cool off, willya!) required isn't really compatible with most troops battlefield use of it - prolly why we replaced it.

I loved mine tho - punched ooogly holes in things.

-R

Pinned&Recessed
July 1, 2005, 09:01 PM
I'm actually rather interested. When people break an AK, they usually have to put some work into it. I'm rather curious.

It's not "broken" and as of right now has shot nearly a thousand rounds and has been through about 300 rounds error free.

Basically, all I did was polish the right side of the bolt carrier that is visible in the ejection port. Didn't polish the rails, didn't polish the off-side, didn't polish any other part of the carrier. Didn't touch the FCG or anything else.

I think it was more related to it's cleanliness level as it's run better the dirtier it's gotten. I think the next time I clean, I'll just scrub the barrel and let the action stay gross.

RevDisk
July 2, 2005, 12:37 AM
Both me and Revdisk, and some other troops, got a similar idea not long ago, and some of the command staff thought this would be a better use of some soldiers time than cooling their heels and slacking off... soooo...

They did something like that out in the big K, and it worked out well not only from a training point of view, but also from a diplomatic one - of course, if some allied soldier gives you a pitying look and pats you comfortingly, know that it's because they fired the M-4.

Yea. I managed to help rig a bunch of joint weapons training. Basically, every country in Europe and even some that weren't European. Germans, Swiss, English, Irish, Swedish, Fins, Italians, etc etc. We had the support of our chain of command, but they weren't really involved except when they stopped by to show the flag. So to speak. Boy did I get nasty looks from the Task Force sergeant major for wearing more foreign uniform components than American.

The positive aspects were numerous. Cross training on basically every small arms weapons system used in the world. Lots of target practice. I fired more rounds off downrange in one week than most soldiers do in their entire career. We literally covered entire ranges with expended brass. More often than not, ankle deep near the firing positions.

One weird thing I noticed. Some MG's I haven't fired since, I couldn't explain how to hot swap barrels. But I could do it by instinct without thought. Muscle memory, I suppose.

Diplomacy, of course. I know a lot of folks here sneer at the Europeans. But I learned a lot of tactics and tricks from foreign military doctrine that doesn't exist here in the mainstream US Army. Learning how to operate fire teams in a mixed military atmosphere was rather eye opening. Yea, most foreign Armies (with the notable exception of the Brits) pitied our M16/M4.

I really do think all soldiers should be cross trained in numerous foreign weapon systems. ESPECIALLY the AK47 family. Of course, I also think they should get more range time with the M16/M4.

Khaotic is very correct that it's a bad idea to grab a foreign weapon in combat except under specific conditions. It could be rigged to kill the operator, other US soldiers might zap ya, lack of logistical support, etc etc.


Perhaps you'd care to explain to me, then, WHY everyone in your unit grabs dirt when you rack the charging handle, hmmm?

Perhaps because I'm the only person that's qual'd expert in everything 40mm and below? Or because they all think I'm insane. Either or.


Admittedly tho, it doesn't take very much to meltdown an M60 barrel, the timing, trigger control and forebearance (as in wait for it to cool off, willya!) required isn't really compatible with most troops battlefield use of it - prolly why we replaced it.

I was just expending left over ammo. I had like, two hours to cook off nearly 10,000 rounds. I was switching between a couple 60's. Apparently, I should have used more 60's than I was. Oh well. All I did was fry the barrels, no real damage to the rest of the weapon.

The M240 is a better weapon. It's essentially a MAG-58, which is a superior weapon in nearly all respects to the M60. My understanding is that the MAG-58 is essentially a BAR converted to belt fed. John Browning is still inspiring superior firearms even long after his death.

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