Ammo Types Giving Me a Headache ?


PDA






Snookay
July 1, 2005, 01:41 AM
I'm looking to buy some good inexpensive target pratice ammo. I keep seeing ACP, MC, FMJ, JHP, XTP, TMJ but i have no clue as to what each means. The only one i know is J Hollow Point, but dont know what the "J" is.

The higher the grain the heavier the actually "slug" is correct?

Also Im looking at this Miwell ammo recommended to me by someone from this site. http://www.outdoormarksman.com/index.php?cPath=65_1_15 Some of Miwell's products say "reload" others say "new". Are "reload" recycled casings ?

any help would be appreciated. I'd like to order some ammo in bulk ASAP to save money and go improve my aim. Also if you know of any reputable websites to order bulk ammo please list them. http://www.cabelas.com/products/Ccat20837.jsp is the only other site i've found.

If you enjoyed reading about " Ammo Types Giving Me a Headache ?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
peacefuljeffrey
July 1, 2005, 01:48 AM
I'm looking to buy some good inexpensive target pratice ammo. I keep seeing ACP, MC, FMJ, JHP, XTP, TMJ but i have no clue as to what each means. The only one i know is J Hollow Point, but dont know what the "J" is.

The higher the grain the heavier the actually "slug" is correct?

ACP = Auto Colt Pistol
MC = dunno
FMJ = Full Metal Jacket
XTP = I think that's proprietary, dunno the meaning
TMJ = Total Metal Jacket -- like FMJ, but the copper jacket even wraps the rear of the bullet and totally encapsulates the lead.
JHP = Jacketed Hollow Point

Higher grain = heavier bullet, yes. There's some conversion for the weight, but I forgot it.

-Jeffrey

epijunkie67
July 1, 2005, 01:58 AM
OK, take a deep breath and let it out. Yes there is a lot of abbreviation with ammo types but in a little while you'll pick it up. Kind of like any forign language.

FMJ=full metal jacket
JHP=jacketed hollow point
MC=metal cased (basically fmj)
TMJ=total metal jacket (see above)

These all refer to the bullet itself, the part that leaves the gun. ACP means auto caliber pistol, usually as in .45 ACP. It means the back end of the case is different than one that goes in a revolver. Revolver bullets were designed with a little raised rim of metal so they wouldn't fall into the holes of the cylinder. But that rim would get caught in an automatic so they had to get rid of it.

Some of the abbreviations you see have been made up by the ammo makers to describe propritary designs they market.

The higher the grain the heavier the slug. "Grains" is an old form of weight. Kind of like grams or ounces.

Reloads are cases that have been cleaned and reused. You can even get equipment pretty cheaply and reload them yourself at home if you like. Some people save a lot of money that way.

Bulk ammo? There are a ton of places on the internet. Check ammoman.com, sportsmans guide, cabelas, midway usa, and cheaper than dirt, to name a few.

Majic
July 1, 2005, 02:07 AM
MC= Metal Cased
XTP= Xtreme Terminal Performance ( a Hornady product)

Be sure you get reloaded cartridges and not bullets for reloading. A bullet is just the projectile without the case, powder, and primer.
There are standard bullet weights for each caliber. Even though you can get lighter or heavier weight bullets understand that it will affect where that bullet will strike your target (heavier bullet will strike higher and lighter bullets will strike lower on average). This is where adjustable sights on the handgun is appreciated.

Zach S
July 1, 2005, 07:35 AM
7000 grains = one pound.

Father Knows Best
July 1, 2005, 09:05 AM
ACP means auto caliber pistol, usually as in .45 ACP.

Um, I'm pretty sure that's not exactly correct. "ACP" stands for "Automatic Colt Pistol." From the very first days of metallic cartridges, the company that invented or first introduced a particular cartridge would often name the cartridge after itself. Thus, the .45 caliber round introduced in 1873 for the Colt Single Action Army revolver was called the ".45 Colt" (it's now commonly incorrectly referred to as the .45 Long Colt, but that's another story). Similarly, Smith & Wesson introduced a .45 caliber revolver cartridge for its No. 3 Schofield revolver about the same time, and called it the ".45 Smith & Wesson" (now commonly known as the .45 Schofield). In later years, we saw the introduction of such rounds as the ".44 Smith & Wesson Special", ".44 Remington Magnum", etc.

Also in 1873, Winchester introduced a new cartridge for its model 1873 rifle. The cartridge is now commonly known as the 44-40, but its original name was the ".44 Winchester Central Fire." Firearms from the period are generally marked "44WCF" if they are chambered in 44-40. Winchester later introduced the 25WCF (25-20), 32WCF (32-20), 38WCF (38-40), and even the 30WCF (30-30).

Around the turn of the century, Colt introduced its first automatic pistols. They were designed to use rimless cartridges (or with rebated rims) so they could easily be stacked in a magazine and stripped off by the cycling of the pistol. To distinguish these cartridges from existing rimmed revolver cartridges, Colt named them using their caliber followed by the words "Automatic Colt Pistol." Just like "Winchester Central Fire" got shortened to "WCF" in use, "Automatic Colt Pistol" got shortened to "ACP."

The same convention is in use today. Glock recently introduced a 45 caliber cartridge for autopistols. They call it the ".45 Glock Automatic Pistol", or ".45 GAP."

Father Knows Best
July 1, 2005, 09:07 AM
By the way, here are some other common abbreviations used to describe handgun bullets:

RN = round nose
LRN = lead round nose
RNFP = round nose, flat point
TC = truncated cone
WC = wadcutter
SWC = semi-wadcutter
LSWC = lead semi-wad cutter

Rob62
July 1, 2005, 09:43 AM
http://www.ammoman.com/

Usually has some good deals. But like anything its a good idea to shop around. I have found that ammo prices can vary greatly on the web.

and of course just down the street from me is:

http://www.georgia-arms.com/

Not a bad place to get ammo from but may not be the least expensive.

Some more good places to get ammo from:

http://www.black-hills.com/

http://www.cascade-ammo.com/


Regards and Safe Shooting,

Rob

Farnham
July 1, 2005, 10:25 AM
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/
http://www.outdoormarksman.com/
http://www.midwayusa.com/
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/
http://www.aimsurplus.com/index.html
http://www.ammoman.com/
http://www.natchezss.com/

JHPBT=Jacketed Hollow Point Boat Tail= :D
SP=Soft Point

Anyone know what DEWC is? Some kind of wadcutter?

elric
July 1, 2005, 10:47 AM
DEWC = Double Ended Wad Cutter ... each end of the bullet is the same, so it doesn't matter which end you put into the case first. Pretty much just a plain cylinder shape with a lube groove or two. Ususally only seen in low power .38spl target loads.

Snookay
July 1, 2005, 01:05 PM
http://www.outdoormarksman.com/product_info.php?cPath=65_1_15&products_id=1045&osCsid=f5da30d154fd9a18e25cf4b7e7d8517f

^^^^ so those are just Casings ? ^^^^ Thats very expensive. Do alot of you guys shoot then pick up your shellls to reload them?

Thanks for all the help and the websites.

NeveraVictimAgain
July 1, 2005, 01:13 PM
Dan's ammo ( dansammo.com ) features free shipping East of the Miss. river. This can add up.

brickeyee
July 1, 2005, 01:42 PM
"so those are just Casings ? "

Looks loke loaded ammo.
Empty shells for pistols are usually around $0.05-0.10 each in bulk. Starline, Winchester, Remington all sell new unleaded brass. unless the caliber is not easily available it is usually cheaper to buy new ammunition and save the shells for relaoding. You can often reload for about $0.10 per round. Buying bullets, primers, and powder in bulk saves a lot. Buying bullets from Sierra in boxes of 100 is rather expensive for handgun loading.

auschip
July 1, 2005, 01:44 PM
so those are just Casings ?

Nope that is the whole thing, brass as well as a TMJ bullet. Those were reloaded by miwall.

SMLE
July 1, 2005, 01:55 PM
^^^^ so those are just Casings ? ^^^^ Thats very expensive. Do alot of you guys shoot then pick up your shellls to reload them? That is live ammunition. The ad says is is reloadable. Many shooters pick up their empty brass to reload it. Some do so for economy, other because they tailor the ammunition to their particular gun for the best accuracy and performance.

Others have posted a a pretty good glossary of abbreviations, but here are a couple of other terms you might want to know.

"Boxer" primed. This means that the base of the case where the primer sits has one flash hole in the center of the primer pocket. This is the most common type of priming used today and nearly all commercial ammo uses this system.

"Berdan" primed. This means that there are 2 flash holes in the primer pocket. This is much harder to reload. This system is used in a lot of military ammo and in some European commercial ammo. CCI "Blazer" brand ammunition uses this system as well. Blazer ammo uses aluminium cases and can't be reloaded.

"Corrosive/non-corrosive" priming. Corrosive primers leave a salt residue in the bore after firing. This residue is NOT corrosive by itself, but it IS hydroscopic and will absorb any moisture fron the air. This will lead to rust. This type of primer is common in older military surplus ammunition. You should have no fear of using this ammunition, just be sure to clean your gun properly. The simplest and best method is to flush the bore with boiling water, then clean with a regular bore cleaner.

Hope this helps.

Snookay
July 1, 2005, 04:29 PM
i just got back from unloading 50 shots I got from walmart and came to the conclusion that this hobby is going to cost alot more than i anticipated. :fire:

i dont think ill be able to get into reloading because picking up my own shells would be a major hassle and wile shooting outside, in the grass.... not going to happen. i just ordered 2 promag 10 round mags (standard is 7) for my gun, so i know ill really be burning through my ammo when they get here.

Smile - I've used the search but this forum is cluttered. wayyy too many hits and after 7 :uhoh: pages of skimming topic heads I get bored. Thanks for the info too.

1 more question - TMJ/FMJ vs. ACP. I can see the difference but what is benefit of the difference for the TMJ.

Last 1 more question :p - Is there any safe way to open a bullet, i really want to do it but Im scared of what may happen to my handsome face and body parts.

maybe admin would sticky this in the ammo section.

SMLE
July 1, 2005, 04:41 PM
By "bullet", I'm assuming you mean "cartridge". Yes, there are several ways to pull the bullet out of the case. Or, you can just go to a shop that sells reloading supplies and look at the various parts in their pre-assembled state.

Father Knows Best
July 1, 2005, 05:04 PM
I dont think ill be able to get into reloading because picking up my own shells would be a major hassle and wile shooting outside, in the grass.... not going to happen.Not really. There are several ways to make it easier. One is to get a "brasscatcher" for your gun. It collects the ejected brass for you. Even easier is to just take a light tarp or painter's dropcloth with you when you go to shoot. Put it on the ground roughly where your brass will land. When you're done shooting, there will be a big pile of brass on the tarp -- no picking brass out of the grass.

1 more question - TMJ/FMJ vs. ACP. I can see the difference but what is benefit of the difference for the TMJ.None, for most purposes. Don't worry about it.

Last 1 more question - Is there any safe way to open a bullet, i really want to do it but Im scared of what may happen to my handsome face and body parts.I assume, also, that you mean you want to open a "cartridge", and not a "bullet." The "bullet" is the projectile portion of the cartridge. The other parts are the case, the powder, and the primer. The case is also sometimes called the "brass", and the powder is sometimes called the "propellant."

There's nothing unsafe about disassembling a cartridge. You just need to be careful not to crush or strike the primer, which is inserted into the bottom of the case. All you really want to do is to remove the bullet from case, which will expose the powder (and let you pour it out). The powder is not explosive or otherwise dangerous. You can often pull the bullet just using a vice and pliers, though certain bullets are "crimped" into the case and may be difficult to remove. To do it safely and without damaging any of the components, you can buy a special tool called, SURPRISE, a "bullet puller." Kinetic bullet pullers are cheap -- about $10 -- and available anywhere that sells reloading supplies.

By the way -- please don't EVER try to remove a primer from a live round. The only way for most of us to safely "deprime" a case is to fire it, and then remove the spent primer. If you try to force a live primer out of a case, you may well detonate it.

And 50 rounds is not a lot of ammo. Lots of us burn through several hundred per range session. That's a big part of why I reload. I shoot over 5,000 rounds of pistol ammo per year, so reloading saves big money for me. I also enjoy the reloading process, so collecting brass is not a problem for me.

hksw
July 1, 2005, 08:34 PM
Here is a rudimentary diagram of the basic nomenclature of a cartridge and its components. Listed names are other descriptions of the name on top.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=26021

The ACP is a particular cartridge. FMJ, TMJ, JHP, etc. are particular types of bullets.

nico
July 1, 2005, 08:38 PM
You've gotten some pretty good advice so far. I would strongly recommend NOT buying the Cabela's bulk ammo. It's VERY dirty, not particularly accurate, and the price is nothing special. You'll get better prices from the sites already posted.

peacefuljeffrey
July 1, 2005, 09:07 PM
By the way, here are some other common abbreviations used to describe handgun bullets:

RN = round nose
LRN = lead round nose
RNFP = round nose, flat point
TC = truncated cone
WC = wadcutter
SWC = semi-wadcutter
LSWC = lead semi-wad cutter

You forgot BT for "boat tail." :D

-Jeffrey

Hawkmoon
July 1, 2005, 09:14 PM
i dont think ill be able to get into reloading because picking up my own shells would be a major hassle and wile shooting outside, in the grass.... not going to happen.
Ummm ... excuse me, but where are you shooting? Unless it's on your own property or a commercial range where they don't require you to police up your own brass, you damned well better pick it up. The last thing this sport needs is more people who go out on public (or private, without permission) property and litter the landscape with abandoned cases, shot up soda cans, soggy targets they were too lazy to take off the tree, etc.

If you don't pick it up, who do you think will?

Snookay
July 2, 2005, 10:48 AM
For instance yesterday i was shooting in a forest type area. While reloading i dropped 2 bullets straight down and couldnt find either bullet :cuss:

I actually NEVER liter and cuss out lazy ppl who do. I made sure to pick up my targets and ammo boxes etc, but there was no way i'd lloook for all those shells.

Somoene posted a good idea about having a big tarp on the ground which i may look into.

Hawkmoon
July 4, 2005, 02:18 PM
I actually NEVER liter and cuss out lazy ppl who do. I made sure to pick up my targets and ammo boxes etc, but there was no way i'd lloook for all those shells.
Leaving those spent cases there fits every definition I know of for "littering." You're not being consistent. You say that you cuss out lazy people who litter, then you say in the next sentence that you're not going to be bothered looking for your empty cases. Isn't that what "lazy" is all about?

Please do investigate a tarp. I've been shooting for more than 50 years, I've shot outdoors from Maine to Arizona, and we ALWAYS police up the brass. That should be fundamental shooters' etiquette.

Snookay
July 5, 2005, 05:26 PM
well i dont litter, I was trying to point out the fact that when i watched 2 bullets fall straight down to my feet. I could not find them. They seemingly vanished.

I plan on being better prepared next time. Hopefully my bullets will get here soon. I ordered 1000 rounds online last friday.

Marshall
July 5, 2005, 06:47 PM
Some more acronyms............

Hangun

CP....................Cone Point
LF....................Lead Free (Nontoxic)
LRN..................Lead Round Nose
MB...................Multi Ball (Shot)
PG....................Partition Gold (Winchester)
THP..................Tubular Hollow Point

Rifle

A.....................A-Frame (Swift)
ACEL...............Accelerator Discharging Sabots
BP...................Bronze Point
BTM.................Boat Tail Match
BTSB...............Boat Tail Soft Point
GS...................Grand Slam (CCI)
HE...................High Energy
HM...................Heavy Magnum
L......................Lead
LM....................Light Magnum
MON.................Monolithic Solid
NOS.................Nosler
PP....................Power Point
SOL..................Solid
TB....................Trophy Bonded
TBS..................Trophy Bonded Solid
TRI...................Triad Group (A Square)
WLY.................Woodleigh
X......................X (Barnes)

Majic
July 6, 2005, 02:48 AM
well i dont litter
Well I'm sorry to say you do litter, but I'm glad to see you are going to correct this. Losing 2 catridges is one thing, but you can't use that as an excuse for not taking the time to look for 50 cases.

If you enjoyed reading about " Ammo Types Giving Me a Headache ?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!