Citizen Soldiers?


PDA

50 Shooter
March 20, 2003, 10:13 AM
Why is the government afraid to ask for help? Would it prove that gun control really doesn't work? I remember hearing after 9/11 that the Gov. of OR. wanted to use gun owners for help in protecting the state.

With things the way they are now and the fact that we citizens out number the police, NG... Why wouldn't they ask for volunteers and then weed out the ones they don't feel comfortable with?

I for one would be willing to set up my .50 to watch any place that they felt might be a target.

If you enjoyed reading about "Citizen Soldiers?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Tamara
March 20, 2003, 10:16 AM
I for one would be willing to set up my .50 to watch any place that they felt might be a target.

Are you kidding? To your average civil servant these days, anybody who owns a .50 BMG is a terrorist. :uhoh:

50 Shooter
March 20, 2003, 10:25 AM
Tam,
I agree but why? It's just another rifle! there's nothing special about it other then being really BIG. Like I said, why are they afraid to ask? It will prove that gun control doesn't work!

Tamara
March 20, 2003, 10:30 AM
Like I said, why are they afraid to ask? It will prove that gun control doesn't work!

That may have something to do with it... ;)

Sean Smith
March 20, 2003, 10:34 AM
50 Shooter,

Your sentiment is nice, but also hopelessly naive. :(

The government won't trust its citizens, because the citizens gave government power... because they don't trust themselves.

synoptic
March 20, 2003, 10:38 AM
there's nothing special about it other then being really BIG.

if(sarcasm==true)
But you could take out an armored car, or even a PLANE with that terrorist weapon!!!

PDshooter
March 20, 2003, 10:49 AM
Being a member of the Illinois Guard!
Last the last thing goverment wants is "Power to the people":banghead:

Just look at how well are borders are!!!:cuss:

larry_minn
March 20, 2003, 10:50 AM
Funny I just sent e-mail to Sheriff less then a hour ago offering to help out if he needs help. I suggested Parade Escort, Funeral, Traffic control at events, Or watching possible targets with Police to check out any threats. I doubt I will get a response but I did make the effort.

Joe Demko
March 20, 2003, 11:10 AM
It is, at least partially, a matter of accountability and liability. If a member of an established government agency commits a grave error in judgement and unjustifiably shoots someone, there is machinery in place to protect the organization and (often) the agent himself. Such things as documented training, insurance, and so on come heavily into play. Now if you, as just John Q. helping out, mistakenly shoot somebody who didn't need shot, there is a great shockwave of liability starting with you and spreading all the wy to everybody in the organization who had anything remotely to do with you being out there. Not saying you personally would do such a thing, the "you" in the above is just generic.

Blackhawk
March 20, 2003, 11:27 AM
Some nice huffing and puffing here, but the reasons are that untrained volunteers needlessly complicate and endanger operations and asking for volunteers sends a psychological message to the rest of the country that the government is incapable of handling the situation.

AmericanFreeBird
March 20, 2003, 11:38 AM
Enter the trial lawyers. So that's why we have no rights today, because the "liability" risk is too high? :barf:

And how easy would it be to pass another of their stupid "laws" that simply says "Anyone deputized to augment current law enforcement who in the performance of his/her official duties, shoots, injures, or otherwise harms someone who he suspects of terrorist activities is totally absolved from all liability."

All that would be required is to be "deputized" and the liability issue should vanish. :banghead:

Double Naught Spy
March 20, 2003, 03:19 PM
The proposition that the government is not soliciting help must mean that it is afraid of the help is overly simplified. Ideally, they would want folks who are with the system in terms of understanding how things work, who gives orders, what the protocols are for situations, etc. Chances are, most of us Citizens know zero about this aspects and short of becoming a Reserve Police/Deputy type officer or full blown LEO, we won't know.

The other very real aspect and maybe what is so frightening is that you can rest assured that there are still plenty of Timothy McVays out there. That would be sort of like letting the wolf guard the henhouse, only the wolf is disguised.

On top of all that, they would not be able to accept your help until they know what it is you can and cannot do, especially with your .50. So let's say the government asks you to watch a place that might be a target and you blow away the occupants because they acted in a manner to support the government's suspicions, only you find out now that the government's suspicions were based on erroneous CI information (and we all know that happens more often than we would like). So now you blew away people who were law abiding.

If you aren't willing to join the government in some manner, then use your resources to make your home absolutely terrifying to potential bad guys, intruders, trespassers, and the like. Who knows, the battle just may come to you and you get to have a lot more say so about protocols on your own property.

voilsb
March 20, 2003, 03:36 PM
I remember hearing after 9/11 that the Gov. of OR. wanted to use gun owners for help in protecting the state.I don't remember this, but I think it was because I was out of state at the time. unfortunately, I don't think it'll happen with our curreng governer because he's rather an anti-gun democrat (kulongowski)

dev_null
March 20, 2003, 03:46 PM
Well, with all due respect to our lawdawg brothers and sisters, it ain't the folks who can't keep tens of thousands of illegals from crossing our borders every year, or who can't even stop one cranky farmer with an "assault" tractor in the very heart of our nation's capitol.

So who IS the real "homeland security?"

“A militia when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves.” – Richard Henry Lee, January 25, 1788, Letters from the Federal Farmer to The Republican, 18

“Who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers.” – George Mason, Virginia Ratification Convention, 1788

“It is undoubtedly true that all citizens capable of bearing arms constitute the reserved military force or reserve militia of the United States as well as of the states, and, in view of this prerogative of the general government, as well as of its general powers, the states cannot, even laying the constitutional provision in question out of view, prohibit the people from keeping and bearing arms…” – US Supreme Court, 1886

“The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed, and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country; but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms, shall be compelled to render military service in person.” – James Madison’s first draft of the Second Amendment.

“But it ought always to be held prominently in view that the safety of these States and of everything dear to a free people must depend in an eminent degree on the militia. Invasions by be made too formidable to be resisted by any land and naval force which would comport either with the principles of our Government or the circumstances of the United States to maintain. In such cases recourse must be made to the great body of the people, and in a manner to produce the best effect.” – President James Madison’s First Inaugural Address, 1817

“To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.” – Richard Henry Lee, 1788

“Little more can reasonably be aimed at, with respect to the people at large, than to have them properly armed and equipped…” – Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist, 29

“Little more can reasonably be aimed at, with respect to the people at large, than to have them properly armed and equipped.” – Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist, 29

“I learn with great concern that a portion of our frontier so interesting, so important, and so exposed, should be so entirely unprovided with common fire-arms. I did not suppose any part of the United States so destitute of what is considered as among the first necessaries of a farm-house.” – Thomas Jefferson, 1808

“A free people ought to be armed.” – George Washington, speech of January 7, 1790, published in the Boston Independent Chronicle, January 14, 1790

“Let your gun, therefore, be the constant companion of your walks.” – Thomas Jefferson, 1785

“The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms like laws discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property… Horrid mischief would ensue were one half the world deprived of the use of [arms]… (T)he weak will become a prey to the strong.” – Thomas Paine, 1894

“An instance within the memory of some of this house will show us how our militia may be destroyed. Forty years ago, when the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised by an artful man, who was governor of Pennsylvania, to disarm the people; it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them; but that they should not do it openly, but weaken them, and let them sink gradually, by totally disusing and neglecting the militia.” – George Mason, 1788

“Certainly one of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how popular and respected, is the right of citizens to keep and bear arms.... The right of citizens to bear arms is just one guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America but which historically has proven to be always possible.” – Senator Hubert H. Humphrey (OK, not exactly a Founding Father, but an interesting quote from a Liberal Democrat “Dove.”)

-0-

If you enjoyed reading about "Citizen Soldiers?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!